Player Discussion Ryan Strome

[duhmetreE]

I feel like Strome came in with a taint that’s been hard for him to shake.

By just about every objective measurable and reasonable standard he has, at the very least, exceeded expectations - if not completely blown them away.

Being an Islander and Oiler can do that

 

[McRanger]

I don’t know, I wouldn’t trade Strome’s performance for Stepan’s over the last season and this season thus far; nor would I trade one for the other if Arizona called tomorrow morning.

Stepan outperformed Strome last year even with Strome scoring on basically every shot.

This season has been different but its also been one month. Stepan is playing a bottom 6 role and Strome is playing with Panarin. Somehow I doubt Strome has more than Stepan's 6 points in 15 games playing on that Arizona's 4th line.

Its just such a weird comparison.

 

[Edge]

Stepan outperformed Strome last year even with Strome scoring on basically every shot.

This season has been different but its also been one month. Stepan is playing a bottom 6 role and Strome is playing with Panarin. Somehow I doubt Strome has more than Stepan's 6 points in 15 games playing on that Arizona's 4th line.

Its just such a weird comparison.

Yeah, I’m going to agree to disagree on that first point. Stepan was not very good last season, with or without Strome scoring on every shot. And that was with Strome playing different roles with different players.

Stepan this year is on the fourth line for a reason. And I also feel pretty comfortable saying Strome would at least match Stepan’s totals in Arizona, while highly doubting Stepan would match Strome’s totals in the same spot in NY.

 

[Leetch3]

I feel like Strome came in with a taint that’s been hard for him to shake.

By just about every objective measurable and reasonable standard he has, at the very least, exceeded expectations - if not completely blown them away.

totally agree...even if he's not here for the long term, for what he is, we should all be very happy with his play and role in the rebuild process

 

[TaroTsujimoto]

When Strome scores 50+ points, he is living up to his talent as a 5th overall draft pick, scorer of 49 points in 37 AHL games at age 20 (ridiculously good), and scorer of 50 points in his first full NHL season. He is really good defensively too. His defensive numbers were superb in the 18 games he played for the Oilers in 2018-2019 before being traded.

 

[SA16]

Yeah, I’m going to agree to disagree on that first point. Stepan was not very good last season, with or without Strome scoring on every shot. And that was with Strome playing different roles with different players.

Stepan this year is on the fourth line for a reason. And I also feel pretty comfortable saying Strome would at least match Stepan’s totals in Arizona, while highly doubting Stepan would match Strome’s totals in the same spot in NY.

Stepan is not on the 4th line. The Coyotes pretty much run their four lines evenly and despite that he leads the team in 5v5 TOI by 30 seconds and all TOI by 100 seconds. Even if you look at the last 3 games where he is with Grabner/Hinostroza he still is 2nd in 5v5 TOI and the line that actually has been used the least is Schmaltz/Keller/Garland (but as I said it's minimal difference as they roll four lines).

 

[Mike in Houston]

I like Strome and hope the Rangers can keep him at a good price. He's very versatile.

 

[Edge]

Stepan is not on the 4th line. The Coyotes pretty much run their four lines evenly and despite that he leads the team in 5v5 TOI by 30 seconds and all TOI by 100 seconds. Even if you look at the last 3 games where he is with Grabner/Hinostroza he still is 2nd in 5v5 TOI and the line that actually has been used the least is Schmaltz/Keller/Garland (but as I said it's minimal difference as they roll four lines).

That's fine. Still doesn't change how I view him at this stage of his career.

 

[SA16]

That's fine. Still doesn't change how I view him at this stage of his career.

Well apparently you view him incorrectly since you think by leading them in TOI is on the 4th line. His play is an entirely different question which I have not watched and cannot judge but by the numbers his play last year was still quite good other than having an all time bad PP year which is unlikely to continue since he's actually generally good on the PP (despite HFNYR always thinking he was bad on it on account of being slow and methodical with his decision making).

 

[True Blue]

I like Strome and hope the Rangers can keep him at a good price. He's very versatile.

I think that it is entirely up to him. If he is a 30-40 point middle liner, he should not be looking at much of a raise, if at all. If he is a 50 point player that can play both wing and center and is willing to do anything, him at a $4x4 is sound business. IF he is suddenly becoming a 60 point player, the conversation changes.

If he is choices b & c, then he would be an asset that a contending team would be willing to give a good asset for at TDL. OR, he could decide that he has found comfort and trust with a coaching staff and a franchise and take a team friendlier dollar price for the good of the franchise, then he could be a part of the family picture.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Almost a full season now as a Ranger. 76 games, 23 goals and 23 assists. He's averaging a full minute of extra ice time per game here than overall in his career. And he's shooting 23%.

He's a fine player. I just don't know how valuable he is if he's shooting 10% (his career average) and being a 10 goal guy getting these kinda of mins.

 

[True Blue]

He's a fine player. I just don't know how valuable he is if he's shooting 10% (his career average) and being a 10 goal guy getting these kinda of mins.

I don't think that you can look at that stat with blinders on (not saying you are per se). Other factors come into play. Who are his linemates? What kind of usage is he getting? On what time is he playing? If all of those go in your favor, it should not be shocking to see production increase.

 

[TheDirtyH]

Was it two years ago that Riley Nash was a ppg player between Pastrnak and Marchand? Finished that year with 45ish points iirc. Nobody was out there saying he was a top six center.

Happy to have a player like Strome who can slot in up the line-up, play with better players, and put up points in those stretches or at least not be a drag. Credit to him for that. Does that make him a top six player? Not to me. He's more like an Anisimov, a Brian Little, Cody Eakin, Adam Henrique. That he can play wing adds to his value. He can play at a 50 point pace this season or finish therein, but to do so stapled to Panarin shouldn't be lost on anyone.

 

[Edge]

Well apparently you view him incorrectly since you think by leading them in TOI is on the 4th line. His play is an entirely different question which I have not watched and cannot judge but by the numbers his play last year was still quite good other than having an all time bad PP year which is unlikely to continue since he's actually generally good on the PP (despite HFNYR always thinking he was bad on it on account of being slow and methodical with his decision making).

I've watched him last year and this year, and I've watched him playing on the fourth line.

His TOI places him second. That's fine. Doesn't change that I've seen him playing on the fourth line. And he's been doing so with increased regularity over the last two seasons.

And that's without even going in-deoth on his play, which is exactly why I was seeing him playing on the fourth line in the first place.

It's not really a nuanced scenario. He's slipping more and more each season, and at age 29, that's not likely to change.

 

[True Blue]

He can play at a 50 point pace this season or finish therein, but to do so stapled to Panarin shouldn't be lost on anyone.

At 50 points, he is the definition of a top 6 player. Heck, in today's NHL that gets you on the lower tier of top line players.

His linemates are not lost. But Panarin by himself is not Gretzky here. Want to put a haircut on the performance curve due to Panarin? Ok. But it is all there is. He has been producing this way since he got here, whether on a line with Panarin or not.

At some point, production is production.

 

[Edge]

I feel like this harkens back to debates about McD and Kreider over the years, and whether the former was a #1 defenseman and the latter a first line left wing.

Is Strome in the conversation as a second line center? Yes he is.

Now, we can debate whether he benefits more from who he plays with than they benefit from him. We can also debate whether he's probably in the lower half of second line centers, and whether he sniff the second line on a top team. But the useage, the icetime, the production, and ultimately, the results, paint a picture of a guy who, at this stage in his career, is making a solid case for being classified as a second line center.

Now we can debate whether he'll remain in this neighborhood, and whether his peak will extend beyond last year and this year, but right now, he's arguably there --- and regardless of the reason, he keeps finding ways to produce over the last two years.

 

[TheDirtyH]

At 50 points, he is the definition of a top 6 player. Heck, in today's NHL that gets you on the lower tier of top line players.

His linemates are not lost. But Panarin by himself is not Gretzky here. Want to put a haircut on the performance curve due to Panarin? Ok. But it is all there is. He has been producing this way since he got here, whether on a line with Panarin or not.

At some point, production is production.

Carl Soderberg has a stronger scoring resume than Strome over their careers and scored 49 points last year. Nobody's out here calling Carl Soderberg a top-6 center. Chris Tierney had 48 in 81 games for Ottawa -- in a top 6 role -- nobody thinks he's a top-6 center. FFS Ryan Spooner had 49 points in 80 games with Boston and 41 in 59 games between them and us!

50 would be a feat and a really good year. It would definitely put any questions about whether Strome is an NHLer in a coffin. I just don't know that a big season with Panarin as your winger in a contract year should be tossed out the window when every year there's somebody doing the same thing.

And to be clear I'm talking about evaluations moving forward. His role in the future. What his next contract could look like. Where he should slot in when Zibanejad returns. etc.

 

[McRanger]

Yeah, I’m going to agree to disagree on that first point. Stepan was not very good last season, with or without Strome scoring on every shot. And that was with Strome playing different roles with different players.

Stepan this year is on the fourth line for a reason. And I also feel pretty comfortable saying Strome would at least match Stepan’s totals in Arizona, while highly doubting Stepan would match Strome’s totals in the same spot in NY.

I dont think Stepan was good last year. I just dont think Strome was particularly good last year either. And I agree with you that Stepan would likely not match Strome's production here, but frankly I doubt Strome matches Strome's production here if you played the games over because, even next to Panarin, I don't view his production as sustainable.

Let me put it like this: a month ago Strome was creating no offense on our 2nd line with Kreider and Kakko, this offseason he was widely viewed as a spare part, last season he was traded for a guy who's not in the league anymore and his last good season was half a decade ago when the Rangers won the Presidents trophy. So even though while viewed in reverse you can see him trending in a positive direction... I don't really see how a dozen super productive games changes much. Yet.

Look I'm rooting for him to succeed. I hope he continues to put up crazy points. I hope he continues to score at an anomalous rate with his stick or off his ass or however. I hope he signs a reasonable deal and does that for the next decade or they trade him for a boatload of assets. I just don't want the team to get burned. Because that tends to be the most frequent result of these situations.

 

[JohnnyBerts]

Strome looks good lately. Great players just produce consistently and he never has but he's going through a nice stretch right now. His career numbers dictate this won't last but kudos to him for playing well, I hope he has a great season!

 

[Edge]

I dont think Stepan was good last year. I just dont think Strome was particularly good last year either. And I agree with you that Stepan would likely not match Strome's production here, but frankly I doubt Strome matches Strome's production here if you played the games over because, even next to Panarin, I don't view his production as sustainable.

Let me put it like this: a month ago Strome was creating no offense on our 2nd line with Kreider and Kakko, this offseason he was widely viewed as a spare part, last season he was traded for a guy who's not in the league anymore and his last good season was half a decade ago when the Rangers won the Presidents trophy. So even though while viewed in reverse you can see him trending in a positive direction... I don't really see how a dozen super productive games changes much. Yet.

Look I'm rooting for him to succeed. I hope he continues to put up crazy points. I hope he continues to score at an anomalous rate with his stick or off his ass or however. I hope he signs a reasonable deal and does that for the next decade or they trade him for a boatload of assets. I just don't want the team to get burned. Because that tends to be the most frequent result of these situations.

Frankly, my hope is that Chytil sustains his play and takes over that role and we can move Strome for something close to a Grabner-like return. Combine that with moving Kreider, and that can be a fun little deadline.

Having said that, my concerns are actually less about re-signing Strome to a bad contract, and more about this team viewing Kreider and Strome as self-rentals if they're within striking distance of the playoffs. While I don't think it will happen, I do believe the odds are better than Strome being resigned to a significant pay increase.

 

[Raspewtin]

Similar to most of the "contentious topics" on HFNYR, I feel like most of the discussion isn't literally Strome and his potential, but player evaluation as a whole and how players like Strome (who passes certain tests but fails others and has a checkered history) are viewed holistically in terms of value and potential.

With me at least, I will never debate the idea that Strome can have big bursts of offensive effectiveness. I don't think he was a 5th overall pick on accident and he has skills that clearly got him here in the first place. What I will consistently debate is the other “intangibles” that only seemed to pop up when he was scoring on every other shot for the team. This includes his leadership, defensive and board abilities, penalty killing, and ability to enhance the play of others. I think these traits range from half true to wild exaggeration and is the source of most of the debate about Strome.

Compared to say, Brassard who by most perceptions played the best hockey of his career as a Ranger; but in reality, I think he was the same player defensively and in raw skills but benefitted (and of course heavily assisted in) a high flying offense. And this is a good thing cause historically Brassard was quite underrated defensively and had a wide array of useful skills that he didn’t always get to show.

I’m thrilled with what Strome has done to this point this year but I don’t think his nice stretch he’s on disproves anything that most of his “detractors” have said.

 

[True Blue]

50 would be a feat and a really good year. It would definitely put any questions about whether Strome is an NHLer in a coffin. I just don't know that a big season with Panarin as your winger in a contract year should be tossed out the window when every year there's somebody doing the same thing.

And to be clear I'm talking about evaluations moving forward. His role in the future. What his next contract could look like. Where he should slot in when Zibanejad returns. etc.

I understand and understand your stance. But the fact is if he nets 50, that's a definitive second line player. I am not touting him at a top line forward, but believe that if what we are seeing is for real, then he absolutely CAN ride wing on a line with a legit top line center. As he looks like right now, he looks like he can be a valuable 2nd liner who can slide to third without whining or step up to first if needed or wanted. Add in the ability to slide between wing and center without complaint and the added element of some grit, and you have a good player.

But again, there is a long way to go. Let's see what happens with him over the next several months.

 

[Edge]

When does a stretch become not a stretch anymore?

I keep seeing the word stretch, when I do, I think a handful of games, maybe even 2o or 25.

But at this point we're talking about 12 months and more than 70 games. Last year he scored at a 20+ goal, 40+ point pace for us over 63 games. And he's got another 13 points in 13 games this year.

The dude has 23 goals and 46 points in 76 games for us. Yes, playing with Panarin elevates those numbers, but playing on the fourth and third line also lowered them.

But he's likely going to hit 25 goals and 50 points over 82 games with us. He's had ups and downs, and he's not going to score 80 points like his current pace, but the whole concept of being a 20 goal/50 point player isn't simply because he's playing with Panarin. He showed elements of that last year as well, back when Panarin was still toiling around central Ohio. So this seems more like a continued progression, that benefits from great talent, rather than something that is strictly owed to great talent.

 

[Edge]

I don't know if there's any data out there, but one thing that might help this conversation is getting an idea of what the average point totals are for second line centers in the NHL.

I get the sense that we all have a certain number or plateau in mind, but that sense might not be accurate.

50 points seems to be the broad concept people cling to, but is 50 points average? In other words, are there some guys getting 55 and others 45 and that's how we arrived at that number?

Do we count guys who happen to be playing on the second line, but are really first line players? So how do we count Toronto's centers? Or Tampa?

I know we keep harping back to this so-called "stretch" that Strome is on, but I don't think this current stretch is what necessarily makes him a second line center. Because this current "stretch" has him posting first line center numbers. So what parameters are we actually utilizing here? Because he doesn't have to be playing at his current level and his current level only to be considered a second line center. I mean hell, even splitting last year and this year's current pace would put him at 60 points. But we can go even further than that, lean on last year, and still arrived at around 50 points. Which, when all is said and done, is only 7 more points than the 43 point pace his performed at least year for us. So it's not like we're talking about a tremendous leap forward if we acknowledge last year is more reflective of his ability than this year.

 

[SA16]

Strome has 23 goals in 81 games as a Ranger. Shooting 22.3% (103 shot taken - 15.7% at 5v5 alone). Why don't we take a look at all players who have shot at least 20% on 100 shot attempts and then see how they did on their next 100? Someone already did this a few years ago (it was when Athanasiou was holding out) though I don't remember where to find it and the result, obviously, is that they almost always go back down to normal levels.

The more he scores (the same way) the less interested I would be in keeping him going forward.