Player Discussion Ryan Spooner Part V

[ashnathan]

surprised teams havent been calling about Spooner (or maybe they have)

 

[BNHL]

I don't think that article (or other like it) casts much doubt on the value of faceoffs with actual hockey people.

Coaches, from the NHL to NCAA still place a premium on winning draws. They go out of their way to get the right matchups and their best FO guys on the ice in certain situations. They spend valuable practice time working on set plays they can run... And the Bruins this year have shown tremendous success at scoring off face-off plays. As do the Rangers and Pens.

Personally, I've read a few of those articles and I always come away feeling like there are holes in the argument. For example, a draw won by Marchand, Bergeron and Pastrnak has a much higher chance of generating a goal than a draw won by the Moore/Nash line. But that data doesn't distinguish between the two, they lump them together and the results kind of wash each other out.

I

I think there is resistance to accept what numbers say,in the face of what was believed before everything was tabulated. I'll choose to believe that ES faceoffs are largely meaningless and let everyone else fret over faceoff percentages.

 

[spoons51]

Faceoff importance is grossly exaggerated with relationship to wins,losses and goals. Something like 1 in every 1000 faceoffs is directly related to a goal within 20 seconds. A team takes about 5000 a season.

Thank you for saying this. No one wants to hear it but faceoffs are not nearly as important as they are made out to be. Definitely not as important as, say scoring goals and setting them up.

I also don't understand why guys like Spooner and Krug get derided for being "power play specialists." Last time I checked, goals on the power play still count...

 

[spoons51]

I may have mentioned this before but I really would like to see him switch positions with Backes. We'd need to find a more dynamic 3rd line RW to replace Hayes (maybe Schaller is worth a shot) but a Marchy-Bergy-Spoons line could be excellent; I think they played together for a couple of games last year and looked electric. I worry that Backes slows the play down a bit too much, which anchors Marchy. This would also allow us to avoid the Spoons faceoff problem.

Late in games, we could always revert back to Marchy-Bergy-Backes as a shutdown line.

This is a pretty solid idea, even just as an experiment.

 

[KnightofBoston]

Face offs aren't that important when you have 3 other guys that are good at the them

 

[PB37]

I don't think that article (or other like it) casts much doubt on the value of faceoffs with actual hockey people.

Coaches, from the NHL to NCAA still place a premium on winning draws. They go out of their way to get the right matchups and their best FO guys on the ice in certain situations. They spend valuable practice time working on set plays they can run... And the Bruins this year have shown tremendous success at scoring off face-off plays. As do the Rangers and Pens.

Personally, I've read a few of those articles and I always come away feeling like there are holes in the argument. For example, a draw won by Marchand, Bergeron and Pastrnak has a much higher chance of generating a goal than a draw won by the Moore/Nash line. But that data doesn't distinguish between the two, they lump them together and the results kind of wash each other out.

This.

Didn't we just see an important faceoff win that lead directly to a victory that was sorely needed? Bergeron to Krug to Marchand for the win.

Also, the argument against doesn't take into account things like momentum and shots on net. If a team is winning faceoffs in the offensive end and it's leading to sustained pressure on the opposing team, that's a good thing. Even if a goal isn't directly scored, it's tilting the ice. Winning games and scoring goals is the end game result but there's a slew of things that have to occur in order for that to happen and these articles make no attempt to measure that ( mainly because they can't ). That's why the argument against doesn't really hold any water.

 

[wintersej]

A faceoff isn't that much different from any puck battle on the ice. Often times losing or winning a puck battle means nothing 10 seconds later. Sometimes it means everything. Spooner is probably BETTER at faceoffs than winning other puck battles. If he was a 40% faceoff guy and was winning 40% of his puck battles, you might just learn to deal with it... but he never wins a puck battle.

 

[BNHL]

This.

Didn't we just see an important faceoff win that lead directly to a victory that was sorely needed? Bergeron to Krug to Marchand for the win.

Also, the argument against doesn't take into account things like momentum and shots on net. If a team is winning faceoffs in the offensive end and it's leading to sustained pressure on the opposing team, that's a good thing. Even if a goal isn't directly scored, it's tilting the ice. Winning games and scoring goals is the end game result but there's a slew of things that have to occur in order for that to happen and these articles make no attempt to measure that ( mainly because they can't ). That's why the argument against doesn't really hold any water.

We can always find opposing examples,always,but the team numbers continue to show almost no constant relationship between faceoff wins and winning teams. You can point out B-K-M,but I can point out 100 others that meant zilch. Right now Van and Carolina are top 10 in faceoffs and Pitts and Columbus bottom 10. Last night Columbus beat NYI 7-0 but lost the faceoff battle and Philly dominated Pitts in the faceoff circle but lost the game. Only 2 examples.

 

[BNHL]

A faceoff isn't that much different from any puck battle on the ice. Often times losing or winning a puck battle means nothing 10 seconds later. Sometimes it means everything. Spooner is probably BETTER at faceoffs than winning other puck battles. If he was a 40% faceoff guy and was winning 40% of his puck battles, you might just learn to deal with it... but he never wins a puck battle.

Probably more meaningful when viewed that way,he is below average on gaining control of the puck at all times.

 

[ChargersRookie]

A faceoff isn't that much different from any puck battle on the ice. Often times losing or winning a puck battle means nothing 10 seconds later. Sometimes it means everything. Spooner is probably BETTER at faceoffs than winning other puck battles. If he was a 40% faceoff guy and was winning 40% of his puck battles, you might just learn to deal with it... but he never wins a puck battle.

You mean he goes to battle for pucks, where is Jimmy Hayes when you need him?

There must be another Bruin in those battle who acquires a better chance at it because Spooner is battling there too.

 

[DominicT]

I guess the game today is putting the faceoff stats to shame.

 

[BruinDust]

Probably more meaningful when viewed that way,he is below average on gaining control of the puck at all times.

Time for you to stop promoting your "Face-off wins don't matter" agenda.

 

[remer]

Spooner is looking great again today. Too bad Hayes can't put the puck in the net.

 

[TMac21]

Pasta is so good.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

Spooner looks like a guy who isn't worried about going back to the bench and having a coach breathe in his ear and downtalk him in a press conference.

 

[s3antana5757]

Like to see him playing, but I still just don't see the future for him here. I want to see his succeed, but I imagine he's going to be trade bait either on Wednesday or this off-season.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

Like to see him playing, but I still just don't see the future for him here. I want to see his succeed, but I imagine he's going to be trade bait either on Wednesday or this off-season.

Under Claude, I saw no future.

Under Cassidy/a more offensive system, I see a future.

Not to say he's a no-go in the right trade, but his talents are much more effective on this type of team.

 

[s3antana5757]

Under Claude, I saw no future.

Under Cassidy/a more offensive system, I see a future.

Not to say he's a no-go in the right trade, but his talents are much more effective on this type of team.

He's been worlds better under Cassidy, but there's just so many centers. The top 2 is clearly filled, and you have Frederic, JFK, Czarnik, Kuraly, Donato, Fitzgerald and even Backes could play there if they got enough wings.

 

[Ratty]

Pasta is so good.

With or without sauce.

 

[SPLBRUIN]

Like to see him playing, but I still just don't see the future for him here. I want to see his succeed, but I imagine he's going to be trade bait either on Wednesday or this off-season.

Spoons is going nowhere, wait until next year when they get him a legit RW to go with him and Vatrano. They will easily be one of the NHL's best 3rd lines. He is also a key cog on the PP, sorry Spooner haters, he is here to stay.

 

[missingchicklet]

Spooner is playing on a two man line. Having to play with Hayes is hamstringing him. Hard to know how much he could produce in the new system if he had a complete three man line.

 

[s3antana5757]

Spoons is going nowhere, wait until next year when they get him a legit RW to go with him and Vatrano. They will easily be one of the NHL's best 3rd lines. He is also a key cog on the PP, sorry Spooner haters, he is here to stay.

Please don't label me a hater. I'm a big supporter and have wanted him to get more opportunities for years. He's got so much talent. I'm just trying to be realistic.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

He's been worlds better under Cassidy, but there's just so many centers. The top 2 is clearly filled, and you have Frederic, JFK, Czarnik, Kuraly, Donato, Fitzgerald and even Backes could play there if they got enough wings.

I've been advocating for a Krejci deal for two years and I'm sticking with that.

I'd be willing to entertain offers on Krejci and Spooner.

 

[SPLBRUIN]

Please don't label me a hater. I'm a big supporter and have wanted him to get more opportunities for years. He's got so much talent. I'm just trying to be realistic.

This wasn't directed at any one person, it was a general statement because there are a lot of Bruins fans who just aren't fans of his.

 

[AM Bruin]

Spoons is going nowhere, wait until next year when they get him a legit RW to go with him and Vatrano. They will easily be one of the NHL's best 3rd lines. He is also a key cog on the PP, sorry Spooner haters, he is here to stay.

Spooners definitely been more engaged in the offense since the coaching change. I'd like to see it on a more consistent basis. Regardless the fact that he's not paired with top line talent shouldn't excuse his inconsistencies over the past couple of seasons. Good players elevate the play of their line mates as much as they rely on their line mates to help their game.