Prospect Info: Ryan Poehling Part 4 (No MB talk)

[Sorinth]

Yes, so the morale of the story is.. when Eller is put in his third line role consistently (not banished to the fourth line for stretches, or playing LW on mismash lines) he produces 30-40 points as a 3C.. which is what you would see Danault do when given his proper role.

The point is that Danault's production above that threshold is because he's playing up in the line-up and when you do that, you tend to get score effects that increase your raw totals. In an ideal world, we have an actual capable 2C playing ahead of Danault who is capable of 60-70 points.

The same is true for every 50 point forward. Play them in the bottom six without PP time and they'll have a big drop in production. That's not an argument for a guy not being a top-6 player unless your definition of top-6 player only includes 70+ point player players.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Hopefully he gets it done sooner then later... im really scared this kid walks...

I'm not worried about him walking. There is a reason why some of the drafted college kids choose to test free agency. One of the reasons I keep hearing is that they felt like the team that drafted them didn't make them feel like they were part of their plans. The team wasn't doing many follow ups and such. Ryan Poehling doesn't have that with Montreal. Bergevin's been there a few times. Timmins and the scouts and development team have, as well.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Eller is a 20 to 30 pts player.....he’s never hit 40.....has 5 seasons of 20 some points and 3 seasons of 30 some

Eller has 40 and 50pt seasons

Eller has never played an entire season in a top six before. That's why he hasn't had the score effects to pull his numbers up to that territory.

This isn't an argument about who is better. The right trade was made in this scenario. It's a discussion on how Danault isn't a top 6 center on a contender and the reason for his higher numbers this year is because of the time on ice and players he's played with.

 

[WeThreeKings]

The same is true for every 50 point forward. Play them in the bottom six without PP time and they'll have a big drop in production. That's not an argument for a guy not being a top-6 player unless your definition of top-6 player only includes 70+ point player players.

My definition for a top 6 player is someone playing in top 6 role who can match up with top 6 players on top end teams. A top 6 player is someone who can drive and create plays. Danault is a support center who's great at supporting but he isn't a guy you want out there trying to push offense against Malkin or Tavares.

 

[jaffy27]

Eller has never played an entire season in a top six before. That's why he hasn't had the score effects to pull his numbers up to that territory.

This isn't an argument about who is better. The right trade was made in this scenario. It's a discussion on how Danault isn't a top 6 center on a contender and the reason for his higher numbers this year is because of the time on ice and players he's played with.

Gotcha.....I’m on board with him being a 3rd liner, and a very good one at that.

He’s the perfect player that doesn’t cost much and can fill a top 6 role in case of injury.....I absolutely love this player

My guess is even in a 3rd line role, he’ll still produce north of 40 year in year out

 

[Sorinth]

My definition for a top 6 player is someone playing in top 6 role who can match up with top 6 players on top end teams. A top 6 player is someone who can drive and create plays. Danault is a support center who's great at supporting but he isn't a guy you want out there trying to push offense against Malkin or Tavares.

Well I doubt you'll find anywhere close to 186 forwards who can do that, so it seems like your definition of top-6 player is skewed. And if you really believe the definition of a top-6 player is a guy who can win the matchup against Malkin or Tavares level players then by that definition there's what 15-20 top-6 players in the whole league?

Also it's worth noting that Danault is playing against other teams top-6 and has a GF% of 56.88% so he is matching up well and pushing the offence against other teams top-6 players.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Well I doubt you'll find anywhere close to 186 forwards who can do that, so it seems like your definition of top-6 player is skewed. And if you really believe the definition of a top-6 player is a guy who can win the matchup against Malkin or Tavares level players then by that definition there's what 15-20 top-6 players in the whole league?

Also it's worth noting that Danault is playing against other teams top-6 and has a GF% of 56.88% so he is matching up well and pushing the offence against other teams top-6 players.

Well I want to win a cup so I'm not content with all these pseudo top 6 forwards who can't get it done when i counts.

 

[Sorinth]

Well I want to win a cup so I'm not content with all these pseudo top 6 forwards who can't get it done when i counts.

Well even Tampa doesn't have 6 forwards that would meet your definition. Danault is around the same level as Miller/Gourde/Killron for example, and if you look at contenders outside of Tampa it's even more obvious that. Our problem isn't that Danault is in our top-6, it's that our top 1-3 are no where close to competing against teams like Tampa.

 

[Price]

I'm not worried about him walking. There is a reason why some of the drafted college kids choose to test free agency. One of the reasons I keep hearing is that they felt like the team that drafted them didn't make them feel like they were part of their plans. The team wasn't doing many follow ups and such. Ryan Poehling doesn't have that with Montreal. Bergevin's been there a few times. Timmins and the scouts and development team have, as well.

Well thats nice to hear... im mostly concerned about his relationship to his brothers and he really likes playing with them. I kinda hear him saying im going for another season with them to win "blabla".
Lets just hope he signes really soon. Im so hyped for this kid!

 

[Adam Michaels]

Well thats nice to hear... im mostly concerned about his relationship to his brothers and he really likes playing with them. I kinda hear him saying im going for another season with them to win "blabla".
Lets just hope he signes really soon. Im so hyped for this kid!

His discourse most of the time when I hear or read an interview of his is that he stays in college because he feels he's not ready for the NHL and that the NHL is not a development league. That he should play in the NHL when he's ready. However, there is a league and a team that is a development league to help a player get ready for the NHL. That's the AHL and the Laval Rocket. So it doesn't have to be NHL or college. There is the AHL option, as well.

Some reasons he may choose to stay another year in college is, like you say, to play with his brothers. Another reason is that he simply wants to continue his education. But I'm sure there's a way he can complete them even if he turns pro. Alexandre Alain is doing online studies while playing for Laval because he wants his degree.

 

[jfhabs]

Eller has never played an entire season in a top six before. That's why he hasn't had the score effects to pull his numbers up to that territory.

This isn't an argument about who is better. The right trade was made in this scenario. It's a discussion on how Danault isn't a top 6 center on a contender and the reason for his higher numbers this year is because of the time on ice and players he's played with.

Tatar-Danault-Gallagher would be a very fine second line if we had a legit 1st line. Let's say whoever-point-kucherov, whoever-McDavid-draisaitl, whoever-Toews-kane, etc.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Well even Tampa doesn't have 6 forwards that would meet your definition. Danault is around the same level as Miller/Gourde/Killron for example, and if you look at contenders outside of Tampa it's even more obvious that. Our problem isn't that Danault is in our top-6, it's that our top 1-3 are no where close to competing against teams like Tampa.

But you have to consider the impact the center position has on the game vs. the wing.. a Danault type on the wing because of salary cap, that's more livable.. but at C, no.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Tatar-Danault-Gallagher would be a very fine second line if we had a legit 1st line. Let's say whoever-point-kucherov, whoever-McDavid-draisaitl, whoever-Toews-kane, etc.

It's a good second line with a different C than Danault.

 

[Sorinth]

But you have to consider the impact the center position has on the game vs. the wing.. a Danault type on the wing because of salary cap, that's more livable.. but at C, no.

That's a fair point, though I think due to our historic weakness it gets overblown somewhat. For example, Chicago won the won the cup with Handzus as their #2 center. So although a Danault level player as your #2 center is far from ideal, if you have strengths in other areas you can make up for it.

And if I'm being honest I think Danault's future might be on the wing. I'd certainly put him there before I moved Domi as an example.

 

[Kriss E]

Well I doubt you'll find anywhere close to 186 forwards who can do that, so it seems like your definition of top-6 player is skewed. And if you really believe the definition of a top-6 player is a guy who can win the matchup against Malkin or Tavares level players then by that definition there's what 15-20 top-6 players in the whole league?

Also it's worth noting that Danault is playing against other teams top-6 and has a GF% of 56.88% so he is matching up well and pushing the offence against other teams top-6 players.

I think there are two different definitions, not that one is skewed. There isn't 186 top 6 quality players in the NHL, but there all the teams will have 6 guys playing on their top 6. Just like we've always had a 1st line center as he was centering that line, but we never really had a legit 1st center.

I view Danault as someone who doesn't really drive/create a lot of offense. Give him some top 6 usage and he'll be carried on, but when I look at his skillset, ideally I'd have him on a 3rd line as a strong two way checking center who can step up into top 6 in case of injuries. I wouldn't look at him as a Plekanec type, who to me is what a top 6 center is.

Looking through the league, you can always find cases to back up a point. I mean, Hawks won the cup with Handzus centering their 2nd line, but he was nowhere near a top 6 center at this point in his career.

 

[Price]

His discourse most of the time when I hear or read an interview of his is that he stays in college because he feels he's not ready for the NHL and that the NHL is not a development league. That he should play in the NHL when he's ready. However, there is a league and a team that is a development league to help a player get ready for the NHL. That's the AHL and the Laval Rocket. So it doesn't have to be NHL or college. There is the AHL option, as well.

Some reasons he may choose to stay another year in college is, like you say, to play with his brothers. Another reason is that he simply wants to continue his education. But I'm sure there's a way he can complete them even if he turns pro. Alexandre Alain is doing online studies while playing for Laval because he wants his degree.

Thats true... but i think there is nothing more to "learn" in collage hockey for him... he needs to take the next step i dont care if thats AHL/NHL (if he is ready for it) i just want him locked up and not see him walk in a year or so... cause i think we have a really good prospect in him!

 

[Just Linda]

Tatar-Danault-Gallagher would be a very fine second line if we had a legit 1st line. Let's say whoever-point-kucherov, whoever-McDavid-draisaitl, whoever-Toews-kane, etc.

One of the most effective first lines in the league would make a very fine second line indeed.

 

[Schwang]

Eller has never played an entire season in a top six before. That's why he hasn't had the score effects to pull his numbers up to that territory.

This isn't an argument about who is better. The right trade was made in this scenario. It's a discussion on how Danault isn't a top 6 center on a contender and the reason for his higher numbers this year is because of the time on ice and players he's played with.

Eller gets pretty much the same stats wherever he’s played. What you see is what u get.

 

[admiralcadillac]

Eller has never played an entire season in a top six before. That's why he hasn't had the score effects to pull his numbers up to that territory.

This isn't an argument about who is better. The right trade was made in this scenario. It's a discussion on how Danault isn't a top 6 center on a contender and the reason for his higher numbers this year is because of the time on ice and players he's played with.

And maybe there's a reason he's never played an entire season in the top 6...

 

[WeThreeKings]

And maybe there's a reason he's never played an entire season in the top 6...

Because he's not a legitime top 6 C.. and neither is Danault. But even in the last play-offs when Backstrom went down and Eller was elevated to his line, Eller produced at a 50-60 pt pace in those games.

Danault isn't a top 6 C the same that Desharnais wasn't even when he put up a great season offensively. Danault isn't as flawed in other areas as Desharnais was, which makes him an actual contributor in his rightful spot.. but you don't win with Danault as a top 6 C.. you don't win with Eller as a top 6 C and you don't win with Desharnais as a top 6 C. There's too many good teams with better C's than that playing line 1/2.

 

[cphabs]

Gotcha.....I’m on board with him being a 3rd liner, and a very good one at that.

He’s the perfect player that doesn’t cost much and can fill a top 6 role in case of injury.....I absolutely love this player

My guess is even in a 3rd line role, he’ll still produce north of 40 year in year out

I can see that and so can he. Maybe he has loftier expectations for himself? Like a first line 200 foot center? I can see that as well.

 

[Adam Michaels]

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

'please credit'

lmao

 

[Adam Michaels]

'please credit'

lmao

At least he said please.

 

[Mike Mike Caron]

Eller has never played an entire season in a top six before. That's why he hasn't had the score effects to pull his numbers up to that territory.

This isn't an argument about who is better. The right trade was made in this scenario. It's a discussion on how Danault isn't a top 6 center on a contender and the reason for his higher numbers this year is because of the time on ice and players he's played with.

There's a reason why he never played an entire season in the top-6, it's because he can't.