Maybe with lower level “top prospects”. This was a clear overpay. I agree it improves the Sabres for this year and maybe next, but that is likely the break even in this trade.
Confirmed with Link: Ryan McLeod & Ty Tullio traded to Buffalo for Matthew Savoie
- Thread starter Jim Bob
- Start date
Beerz
Registered User
- Jun 28, 2011
- 36,329
- 12,485
I mean I agree it's an overpay... but you have to take risks to move forward.
ValJamesDuex
Registered User
- Nov 4, 2021
- 9,533
- 5,294
Deep Blue Metallic
Bo knows hockey.
- Mar 5, 2021
- 4,849
- 5,923
Thanks. Much as expected. Appreciate your posts in here.
What's your take on Tullio - strictly AHL fodder, or some bottom-6 NHL potential?
McFlyingV
Registered User
Had high hopes for Tullio early in his development because he's a high motor player with some skill. At his size he's unfortunately fighting against the odds because for every player like him that makes it theres about 20-30 who don't. I think he battled injuries last year which definitely prevented him from taking another step in his development, and Bakersfield has limited offensive skill to begin with.
I'd say his ceiling is probably a 3rd line energy guy who can every once in a while pot some offence with his mix of speed and skill. That said I think the likelihood he plays more than 100 NHL games is probably less than 5%. He's a long shot, but there's a quality skillset there if he can find good health and put it together.
Paxon
202? Stanley Cup Champions
Right. They're actually building a coherent team this off-season in the moves that have been made. Not every move has to look great in hindsight so long as the moves collectively shape the roster. If Savoie were the only strong forward prospects we had this would be a different conversation but that's not the case.
This is what "doing something" looks like. Probably the only two moves anyone would even advocate for now are acquiring a top 6 winger and moving Joker out for someone seen as a better fit, neither of which are screaming needs the way reshaping the bottom 6 was. They have a lot of ammo to make any kind of move they want and would still have a pipeline after.
That’s fair. I get that. And as I said, IMO, it the the wrong prospect. I would have traded Kulich way before him. I understand the need to overpay and the need to save Adams job, I just think they traded the wrong prospect and once again it will be another former Sabre lighting up the league in a poor asset management decision.
Paxon
202? Stanley Cup Champions
Reasonable take. The upshot is whichever similar-level prospect it was of course a bunch of people would feel that way. The Sabres seem to not share your view so we just have to hope they are right. That said, even if Savoie becomes great it doesn't kill us, especially if, say, Kulich or whoever also does. I'd bet the farm Quinn and Benson will be better than Savoie at this point. I wouldn't have said that a couple years ago but it seems pretty clear now. We are in great shape as far as young wingers go.
McFlyingV
Registered User
No problem. For the record I think McLeod could find a home on a PP2. He's a good puck carrier for zone entries, and he a better offensive player when he has time and space. He put up some points in 2021-22 on our 2nd unit, but the 2nd unit has mostly just been give the tail end 20-30 seconds here. This will probably change with the Henrique+Skinner+Arvidsson additions. McLeod didn't have much to work with either in those limited minutes so its hard to judge his PP potential.
I agree with all your points. And you are right, everyone has their favourites and mine was Savoie. I hope the Sabres know what they are doing, time will tell. I also have Quinn and Benson above Savoie but I also view those two as two of the top three Sabres forwards in a year or two, so to me that wasn’t the comp.
Deep Blue Metallic
Bo knows hockey.
- Mar 5, 2021
- 4,849
- 5,923
Lance usually has a pretty solid take. (OT - Think he's unrealistically optimistic about Helenius' development path.)
Ace
Registered User
- Oct 29, 2015
- 24,039
- 30,086
This is along the lines of something I said yesterday. Breaking in young forwards alongside a responsible player in his prime sounds a lot better than breaking them in alongside each other. Or, honestly, Krebs who hasn’t figured much out yet himself
Paxon
202? Stanley Cup Champions
Re: Benson and Quinn, I didn't mean to bring them up as comparisons, just as an illustration of how good we are in the wing position going forward. Quinn and Benson, Peterka, and then all the guys around and below Savoie's prospect level, with Quinn and Benson very likely to be very good and better than Savoie will be. So, even if they traded the wrong guy from that grouping, it won't necessarily be that painful. We will probably still wind up with a legit top 6 winger to add to what's already on the roster, maybe more.
Beerz
Registered User
- Jun 28, 2011
- 36,329
- 12,485
Ace
Registered User
- Oct 29, 2015
- 24,039
- 30,086
What did he say about Helenius. Because if it’s that he’s much closer to ready than people think I agree with it. It’s a similar discussion to the Benson thing. What keeps young players out of the NHL…the things they need to develop away from the puck…those were Benson’s strengths and he wasn’t going to learn how to do it as the most talented offensive player in juniors. Helenius is different because he can play anywhere. So he can learn more as a pro in either pro league here or in Finland. But the larger point about responding isn’t much different.
Ace
Registered User
- Oct 29, 2015
- 24,039
- 30,086
He’s already spent two years as a pro. He’s also more sturdy built than say, Ostlund at the draft. He’s kind of right now at 18 where Ostlund is at 20. With a lot more pro games experience and a better pro frame. Kind of like Kulich coming over at 18 only he’s already doing the things they want Kulich to learn there.
Deep Blue Metallic
Bo knows hockey.
- Mar 5, 2021
- 4,849
- 5,923
Fjordy
Registered User
- Jun 20, 2018
- 16,598
- 9,059
Why not. Maybe the sooner the better. They will be able to control his development and Helenius will get used to the smaller ice and different speeds faster.
Deep Blue Metallic
Bo knows hockey.
- Mar 5, 2021
- 4,849
- 5,923
I was very skeptical about playing Kulich in the AHL, instead of starting his North American hockey career in Charlottetown (iirc). That worked out much better than I expected. Maybe Helenius can pull it off too.
Logjams at forward in both Buffalo and Rochester.
There has to be another trade coming.
The proper analogy is you have a $50 Scratch-off lottery ticket where if you match 3 numbers and you've already scratched off 1 and see the prize below is $500, but instead of scratching the rest you sell the ticket for $20.
CowbellConray
Registered User
- Sep 8, 2010
- 2,428
- 1,468
Whether right or wrong, for this front office making the playoffs is the ONLY goal on the board
CowbellConray
Registered User
- Sep 8, 2010
- 2,428
- 1,468
Idk that the value really is more than 1.5 that of McLeod. If the return from EDM was McLeod and their 2nd, I’d consider that fair. And if you told me we could have traded two seconds for McLeod I would have in an heartbeat.
I put Savoie as a guy who likely projects as a middle six winger. Slight top line chance. McLeod is a confirmed third line center. I think it’s a slight overpay, but I don’t think it’s anywhere close to the 5 to 1 you said.
I ignored the rest because I was so shocked at what you started your post with
CowbellConray
Registered User
- Sep 8, 2010
- 2,428
- 1,468
That’s crazy. Savoie has maybe a 2% chance of being a ppg top line center. This isn’t Boston trading Thornton or Seguin. I like Savoie, but i put him at likely a second line winger.
We took a slight value drop in a vacuum to fill a need with a confirmed resource.
Ad
Latest posts
-
-
An idea to remove the cap advantage for no tax states- Latest: DistantThunderRep
-
