Confirmed with Link: Ryan McLeod & Ty Tullio traded to Buffalo for Matthew Savoie

[Sabre the Win]

I'm pretty sure we drafted Ziemer this year knowing that him being a top 6 guy is like a 1% chance.

You and Push are really bending quite hard on this, simply put no GM is drafting for bottom 6 players. They are drafting players that they hope can stick around in the NHL and if they do that's the payoff. If a player can maintain in the bottom 6 great, if they make it into the top 6, you hit it big. If not, you wash your hands with them and move on.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Not sure about a better goal scorer... he does have a better shot than Ennis tho.

Ennis always struck me as more of a playmaker than a goalscorer. You guys saw him in his prime and I saw him towards the tail end of his NHL career.

 

[NotABadPeriod]

That’s patently untrue. Not all prospects have a top 6 ceiling.


Ya that’s probably it.

Also not every prospect can fall back into a bottom 6 role. How many guys do we talk about as being "top 6 or bust" specifically because they DON'T have the attributes to succeed in a bottom 6 role?

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

So I just thought of something. You guys have had the privilege of watching some of the best smaller forwards over the last 20ish years in Briere, Roy and Gionta. Hell, even Gerbe had some good seasons for you guys. Does Savoie remind any of you of any of those guys in terms of play style and skill level?

It would shock me if the number of people who have seen Savoie play enough games to have an informed opinion could fill 2 hands.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

You and Push are really bending quite hard on this, simply put no GM is drafting for bottom 6 players. They are drafting players that they hope can stick around in the NHL and if they do that's the payoff. If a player can maintain in the bottom 6 great, if they make it into the top 6, you hit it big. If not, you wash your hands with them and move on.

Most guys that are drafted for bottom 6 duty come from the middle of the 1st round on down and typically in the 2nd and later rounds and some of them never even pan out in that role. The kid that we just drafted 32nd has top 6 upside but might be an eventual 3C but also seems to be loaded on intangibles.

 

[Zman5778]

You and Push are really bending quite hard on this, simply put no GM is drafting for bottom 6 players. They are drafting players that they hope can stick around in the NHL and if they do that's the payoff. If a player can maintain in the bottom 6 great, if they make it into the top 6, you hit it big. If not, you wash your hands with them and move on.

I made one statement. Not sure how that's "bending quite hard".

You made the statement first that "no GM drafts for bottom 6". I disagree. Hell, we've seen it happen -- when Justin Kea was drafted, he was heralded as the next Gaustad.......a bottom 6er.

You're absolutely right that the hope is that every draftee makes the NHL. I just think that some players are drafted while knowing that them becoming a top 6 player is unlikely.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

It would shock me if the number of people who have seen Savoie play enough games to have an informed opinion could fill 2 hands.

I know that we have a lot of guys that follow the WHL due to it being in Western Canada so we have some definite opinions there, but IMO it's great to get opinions from Sabres diehards too since they may have seen him in the AHL, prospect camps, etc.

 

[Zman5778]

I know that we have a lot of guys that follow the WHL due to it being in Western Canada so we have some definite opinions there, but IMO it's great to get opinions from Sabres diehards too since they may have seen him in the AHL, prospect camps, etc.

We've got a few guys here who religiously follow every one of our prospects, not just a specific league. Chainshot has posted in this thread often -- he is the poster here who's probably seen Savoie the most. Listen to his opinion above all others.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

The

You and Push are really bending quite hard on this, simply put no GM is drafting for bottom 6 players. They are drafting players that they hope can stick around in the NHL and if they do that's the payoff. If a player can maintain in the bottom 6 great, if they make it into the top 6, you hit it big. If not, you wash your hands with them and move on.

You’re going to throw out your back trying to walk back that statement if you keep it up like this.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

We've got a few guys here who religiously follow every one of our prospects, not just a specific league. Chainshot has posted in this thread often -- he is the poster here who's probably seen Savoie the most. Listen to his opinion above all others.

Thanks, fwiw there are some guys on our board that follow prospects that really liked Tullio. Gritty, not bad skill and outplayed our likely bust of a 1st round pick Xavier Bourgault in Bakersfield last season.

 

[StrompTroller]

Idk that the value really is more than 1.5 that of McLeod. If the return from EDM was McLeod and their 2nd, I’d consider that fair. And if you told me we could have traded two seconds for McLeod I would have in an heartbeat.

I put Savoie as a guy who likely projects as a middle six winger. Slight top line chance. McLeod is a confirmed third line center. I think it’s a slight overpay, but I don’t think it’s anywhere close to the 5 to 1 you said.

I ignored the rest because I was so shocked at what you started your post with

Well thats the problem nowadays....

 

[jcbeze]

Claims Helenius is likely to be in Rochester this season. Starting at 0:55. At 5:02 he claims Helenius could be NHL ready in 2025/26.

Not saying he's flat-out wrong, but that certainly isn't the consensus around here.

I'd say it's the concensus actually

 

[elchud]

If we would have put Savoie on the table for the highest possible 1st round pick this past draft (just one pick not a package) ... maybe Detroit at 15 does that trade? I think that's the highest pick he would get.

Not sure if that adds any perspective.

Of course Detroit would not in a million years trade that pick for McLeod. Which also adds some perspective.

 

[Ace]

If Savoie was worth the 15th pick in this draft he wouldn’t have been traded for McLeod.

We don’t have to run with hypotheticals on value. The player was shopped. This was what the actual NHL was willing to trade for him.

 

[elchud]

If Savoie was worth the 15th pick in this draft he wouldn’t have been traded for McLeod.

We don’t have to run with hypotheticals on value. The player was shopped. This was what the actual NHL was willing to trade for him.

I see.

So he had the value of a low 1st round pick, basically across the league.

That knowledge is useful in forming an opinion on this trade.

 

[Sabre the Win]

The

You’re going to throw out your back trying to walk back that statement if you keep it up like this.

Walk back a statement?

You put words in my mouth in your first reply to try and swing an argument Then I called you out again and you come back at me with this drivel.

You are starting to crack under the weight of trying to defend this trade.

 

[elchud]

EDM went after OReilly at the end of the 1st. If they offered McLeod for that pick in the trade...

I know I know. Different teams different needs.

McLeod worth maybe the 26th overall pick? I can get my head around that. A 9th overall degrading into that is very disappointing, no other way to cut it.

In fact a good case can be made that Savoie is the most disappointing 1st round pick we've had since Nylander.

Lets hope McLeod has a better Sabres career that Joker.

 

[RefsIdeas]

If Savoie was worth the 15th pick in this draft he wouldn’t have been traded for McLeod.

We don’t have to run with hypotheticals on value. The player was shopped. This was what the actual NHL was willing to trade for him.

Just because other GMs lowball you, doesn’t mean you have to accept.

This trade makes more sense if there’s a lingering medical issue, or if Savoie requested it.

 

[toddkaz]

Let's grab Drai to juice McLeod's offense.

Adams could even trade for Drai's jock he is that useless

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

There’s never a need for worry about too many high end prospects. They can always be traded for a 3c.

More seriously while I don’t like this I get why they did it. It feels like a hell of a risk.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

“Locked on Sabres” reassured me- McLeod is 97th percentile for defense, 100th for speed.

So he’s not physical, which is fine, our whole 4th line addresses that+ speed, and then we got this dude to lock shit down. Win faceoffs, have the speed to forecheck and backcheck.

Idk, just feels like it’s pretty targeted when some read it as random. I like that I see what Adams is going for, at least.

 

[Dubi Doo]

“Locked on Sabres” reassured me- McLeod is 97th percentile for defense, 100th for speed.

So he’s not physical, which is fine, our whole 4th line addresses that+ speed, and then we got this dude to lock shit down. Win faceoffs, have the speed to forecheck and backcheck.

Idk, just feels like it’s pretty targeted when some read it as random. I like that I see what Adams is going for, at least.

There seems to be a vision for this team atleast.

 

[CowbellConray]

Well thats the problem nowadays....

So is hyper-exaggerating value deltas to start a post…

We can go back and forth, I think we are probably relatively aligned on the trade, barring a pessimist/optimist articulation of it

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

Let me ask the naysayers, assuming we can agree that something had to be done about Krebs at 3C. (If not, we can agree to disagree.)

Who would have been a better 3C target? At what price?

 

[Zman5778]

There seems to be a vision for this team atleast.

For the first time in KA's build-back, agreed. I still don't know what he's doing on defense......but the forwards? Yeah, I see the vision.