Confirmed with Link: Ryan McLeod & Ty Tullio traded to Buffalo for Matthew Savoie

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

lol the revision in here trying to downplay Savoie as a prospect is interesting.


And even Kasper was in trade rumors in recent weeks. *shrug*

at some point we will all realize that none of us are qualified to talk about this shit

Wasn’t Adams whole MO to not hit “fast forward”?Isn’t this doing exactly that?

We made it this far, why sacrifice what we’ve built up now?

I could see sacrificing Savoie + for somebody that would equal or exceed Savoies likely ceiling (Ehlers, Necas). Still can’t wrap my head around this though.

im going to make a beef wellington
i bought beef, beef, beef, beef, beef, and beef
shoot i dont have the ingredients for beef wellington
maybe if i wait long enough enough some of this beef will turn into mushrooms and puff pastry and i can have my beef wellington

Im trying to win a cup
i draft small skilled forwards, small skilled forwards, small skilled forwards, small skilled forwards, and small skilled forwards
shoot i dont have the players i need to win a cup
maybe if i develop long enough those small skilled forwards will turn into defensively responsible role players and i can have my cup

5 years later youve got rotted beef and another rebuild

 

[Dreakon13]

Wasn’t Adams whole MO to not hit “fast forward”?Isn’t this doing exactly that?

We made it this far, why sacrifice what we’ve built up now?

I could see sacrificing Savoie + for somebody that would equal or exceed Savoies likely ceiling (Ehlers, Necas). Still can’t wrap my head around this though.

FWIW, I have a feeling a lot of these moves and the particulars of who they're targeting and how they're retooling the bottom 6 is Lindy's influence.

"We made it this far" also suggests we made it somewhere. I think it's clear that plan, if that was the plan, hasn't been working.

We traded a prospect we have an abundance of for a position of need. That's all there really is to it.

 

[old kummelweck]

lol the revision in here trying to downplay Savoie as a prospect is interesting.

People suggesting things like he's not going to be good, or that there were reasons other than roster necessity (i.e. injury history) the sabres parted with him is suspect, but you also have a lot of hyperbole on the other side as well that he was their best prospect, untouchable, etc. So it's not like the conversation isn't grounded in his value in the organization v. his value as an asset in a trade. It just seems people get polarized real quick.

 

[ottsabrefan]

Interesting take here ...

"12 goals and 18 assists is nothing to scoff at for a 24-year-old center who didn't get power-play time and who most commonly played with Warren Foegele and Corey Perry at five-on-five."

With the departure of Mitts and Skinner, some PP2 spots are in play. McLeod should have a shot at one, and then we might see a 40 point player.

Otoh, I wonder how many of his 30 points were scored playing on Draisaitl's wing?

Grades seem pretty bang on. A for Oilers and C for Sabres. They traded the wrong prospect IMO. And I expect this will burn them.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Grades seem pretty bang on. A for Oilers and C for Sabres. They traded the wrong prospect IMO. And I expect this will burn them.

hey can i have your thing i really need for this prospect

no but you can have it for that prospect

but thats the wrong prospect

ok miss the playoffs again see if i care

for a fanbase that has watched their GMs neglect the bottom 6 for a decade and have it bite them in the ass over and over again Im shocked people dont value bottom 6 players higher

but this is endemic to the NHL in general, the bottom 6 plays a third of the game and everyone thinks you can just back fill it with trash assets and it will work out, yet you see every year cup contenders spending big assets on their depth players

 

[Dreakon13]

Grades seem pretty bang on. A for Oilers and C for Sabres. They traded the wrong prospect IMO. And I expect this will burn them.

Hot take, the Sabres make a move that won't work out lol. How many years have we been doing this? Is there a safer bet in sports?

If they make the playoffs, no one will care which prospect they traded. If they don't, Savoie wouldn't be the difference maker (this year in particular, but probably in general too).

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

I had Savoie as Buffalo's best prospect. This isn't the deal I'd have made, but the NHL doesn't value small wingers.

McLeod was one of the center I'd thought would make a good target though.

This move will do very little to move their point projections in the computer models, it will make them a better team.

 

[ValJamesDuex]

I didn't want Savoie due to his injury history, though i warmed towards him. I was lambasted for proclaiming Benson was better.
Saying that this wasn't the best trade in regards to value. Roster wise it makes sense, and trading a surplus for a need generally depresses the value of the trade commodity

well said mate

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Your arguement seems to be based on the logic that Mitts/McLeod are like for like, interchangeable players. The reality is they clearly have different skill sets, Mitts skill set isn't something Adams wanted to invest in while McLeod is the type of player he coveted. In Adams mind, there was a hole which needed filling, no matter if he moved Mitts or not.

I'm sure he'd have moved Mitts for McLeod in the same deal if he was offered the opportunity. Hence why in my OP I made the point of looking at the pair of trades as Mitts vs McLeod & Byram vs Savoie.

No, I don't think Mitts/McLeod are like for like. I just got done saying how much more valuable Mitts is. Why would I think that? I think Mitts was getting the most TOI through last season and that any one of TT/Cozens/Mitts could be slotted anywhere on the depth chart. However it worked out, Mitts and McLeod are different players. Losing him didn't necessitate getting a player similar to him, but Krebs sure as hell wasn't the right guy to get worked in at 3C (which was the only spot he could possibly fill). Knowing that KA would never go big enough to sign/trade for a legit top-six C, the conversation on the boards shifted to who KA can get for 3C/bottom-six C...however you want to phrase it. He was never going to pay for a better player. Saying KA didn't want to invest in a player like Mitts is a poor assumption as well. If he really thought that he's just dumb, because a guy that works the boards, wins puck battles and back checks, and makes all his linemates better with his hands and passing is worth investing in no matter who the GM is. Tell me a Cup winner like Colorado was dumb for wanting to invest in him. KA just thought Byram was the top-4 guy he needed, and that Mitts was worth trading based on two guys he already paid and prospect depth. I don't agree but that was the logic, not that Mitts wasn't worth keeping.

So my argument is that there was depth and flexibility among the C position and the roles among them, and worth having them all at 21 mil for six years. Having that hole on the roster necessitated another move (that had to be filled with a different/lesser player), and ultimately was worth filling for an overpay. That hole wouldn't have been there with Mitts on the roster, but it could have easily been TT or Cozens at 3C if they were all still here. Or, if Ruff insisted on having a traditional top-6/bottom-6 set-up, and/or wanted Mitts up on the top line to demote or buy-out Skinner, there would be a hole that none of TT/Cozens/Mitts could fill. At the least, it would make more sense to still have Mitts in Skinner's spot, JPP down, and no need to sign Zucker, but big decisions weren't made in an order where that would end up the result.

 

[Ace]

Wasn’t Adams whole MO to not hit “fast forward”?Isn’t this doing exactly that?

We made it this far, why sacrifice what we’ve built up now?

I could see sacrificing Savoie + for somebody that would equal or exceed Savoies likely ceiling (Ehlers, Necas). Still can’t wrap my head around this though.

You think one move in year five of his tenure is hitting fast forward? Set aside the fact that ALL OF THESE PROSPECTS CAN’T PLAY HERE or that Benson blew past him and how many 5’10 or shorter wingers are you going to roll out there. Or that Kulich had clearly passed him in the organization. Or that they just drafted a true center closing off another avenue. Forget all of that…

you think trading a 20 year old who will have trouble finding a spot in the top six of a lineup that already has Tage, Cozens, Quinn, Peterka, Tuch, Benson and Kulich ahead of him long term…for a 24 year old center to play on the third line now…the same third line that was Savoie’s most likely path forward given everyone ahead of him…is hitting fast forward?

Ok. Even then. They don’t want to run two small wingers. Benson took that spot. Kulich passed him for another. Helenius and Ostlund slammed his undersized 3C of the future door shut. And Wahlberg bringing an entirely different dynamic they’d want on that line sealed it for good.

 

[ottsabrefan]

Hot take, the Sabres make a move that won't work out lol. How many years have we been doing this? Is there a safer bet in sports?

If they make the playoffs, no one will care which prospect they traded. If they don't, Savoie wouldn't be the difference maker (this year in particular, but probably in general too).

They will when they see Savoie ripping it up in a top line for the next 15 years and wondering why we traded him for a 3rd liner who is marginally helping us in a few years.

I get the panic to make the playoffs, but it is short sighted. You don’t trade your top prospect for a 3rd line center.

 

[Beerz]

Wasn’t Adams whole MO to not hit “fast forward”?Isn’t this doing exactly that?

We made it this far, why sacrifice what we’ve built up now?

I could see sacrificing Savoie + for somebody that would equal or exceed Savoies likely ceiling (Ehlers, Necas). Still can’t wrap my head around this though.

Because they know the fan base has seen enough. Adams makes the playoffs or he's done

 

[ValJamesDuex]

I think Kasper was on their radar, it's like a 3C. We were looking at Kasper for that as well and some wanted to take him.

Wasn't that where KA said "OK, were taking the other guy" ?

 

[BUCKSHOT]

They will when they see Savoie ripping it up in a top line for the next 15 years and wondering why we traded him for a 3rd liner who is marginally helping us in a few years.

I get the panic to make the playoffs, but it is short sighted. You don’t trade your top prospect for a 3rd line center.

well they didn't trade their best prospect in most fans opinion

 

[Beerz]

They will when they see Savoie ripping it up in a top line for the next 15 years and wondering why we traded him for a 3rd liner who is marginally helping us in a few years.

I get the panic to make the playoffs, but it is short sighted. You don’t trade your top prospect for a 3rd line center.

It happens to teams all the time.

 

[Ace]

well they didn't trade their best prospect in most fans opinion

More importantly…in their own opinion.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Wasn't that where KA said "OK, were taking the other guy" ?

Detroit picked Kasper ahead of Buffalo

 

[ValJamesDuex]

Detroit picked Kasper ahead of Buffalo

wonder who was the "other" guy
EDIT: ahh, I think it was Lekkerimaki from memory

 

[Paxon]

They will when they see Savoie ripping it up in a top line for the next 15 years and wondering why we traded him for a 3rd liner who is marginally helping us in a few years.

I get the panic to make the playoffs, but it is short sighted. You don’t trade your top prospect for a 3rd line center.

I think it's a pretty small percentage of people who had Savoie as the top prospect. More to the point, I don't think anyone would argue he was the clearcut top prospect. There are a few guys right there with each other, not to mention a few not too far below, which is why trading him in theory is not a big deal.

 

[Ace]

I like how a top ten puck who isn’t going to make the NHL in his draft plus 3 season is heading toward 15 years of first line minutes in Edmonton. Must be great news for Benson and Firkus. Two players who were better than him in juniors on his own teams. And for pretty much every player in the World Juniors. Shit…Ostlund must be heading to the hall of fame.

If he was as good as some people suddenly believe he is…he wouldn’t have been heading to Rochester three years after he was drafted. He wouldn’t have been traded either. He’d have been Zach Benson.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

Kevyn, please don't trade anymore HoF lock prospects for bottom-6 plugs. You're killing our future.

 

[RefsIdeas]

You think one move in year five of his tenure is hitting fast forward? Set aside the fact that ALL OF THESE PROSPECTS CAN’T PLAY HERE or that Benson blew past him and how many 5’10 or shorter wingers are you going to roll out there. Or that Kulich had clearly passed him in the organization. Or that they just drafted a true center closing off another avenue. Forget all of that…

you think trading a 20 year old who will have trouble finding a spot in the top six of a lineup that already has Tage, Cozens, Quinn, Peterka, Tuch, Benson and Kulich ahead of him long term…for a 24 year old center to play on the third line now…the same third line that was Savoie’s most likely path forward given everyone ahead of him…is hitting fast forward?

Ok. Even then. They don’t want to run two small wingers. Benson took that spot. Kulich passed him for another. Helenius and Ostlund slammed his undersized 3C of the future door shut. And Wahlberg bringing an entirely different dynamic they’d want on that line sealed it for good.

I fully understand all the prospects can’t play. There’s not enough room. I don’t care at all that we traded Savoie.

I care that we got so little in return for him. I’d be shocked if Savoie doesn’t carve out a career at least as good as McLeod, but with much higher potential.

I saw a tweet that this is like trading Ehlers/Domi in 2015 for Carl Hagelin. This is exactly what this is. Hagelin was a fine player - no issue with him. But you just give up way too much.

 

[DJN21]

I don’t think any GM would say Savoie had 5 times the value of McLeod. Maybe like you spent 15 dollars on parking because you wanted to get to the game on time instead of 10 which would have made you late. You aren’t happy you paid 15, but at the end of the day you made it to the game on time


We need to make the damn playoffs. This move for this season gives us a better chance than what we had with Savoie.

The value between the 2 is more than the "5 dollars" you proposed. And if it was parking for a sabres game either way you overpaid...

Plus you ignored the last 2/3 of what I said...

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

wonder who was the "other" guy

My guess would be Nazar, but it could have been Ostlund, or it could have referenced Savoie since Kasper was just off the board.

 

[McFlyingV]

Interesting take here ...

"12 goals and 18 assists is nothing to scoff at for a 24-year-old center who didn't get power-play time and who most commonly played with Warren Foegele and Corey Perry at five-on-five."

With the departure of Mitts and Skinner, some PP2 spots are in play. McLeod should have a shot at one, and then we might see a 40 point player.

Otoh, I wonder how many of his 30 points were scored playing on Draisaitl's wing?

8 of his 26 5v5 points came with Draisaitl in 186:12 of playing together while 18 of 26 came away from Draisaitl in 786:06. The remaining 4 points were 2 shorthanded, 1 PP, and 1 empty net (goal).

His P/60 5v5 with Drai was 2.58
His P/60 5v5 without Drai was 1.37