Speculation: Ryan Johansen "Softly in play"

[blahblah]

If you trade Johansen, you wait until after the season. What is the rush to trade him now? For all the reasons you suggest for possibly trading him, wait until later, when the market tends to go up. If he trades him now, to me, it smacks of desperation.

You are jumping to all kinds of solutions.

1. You are assuming we are doing anything more than listening. So far that's all that's reported is that we're listening.
2. If the right deal comes along you make it when it comes along. There is no time table. That may or may not be during the off season.

As I said wait until you see the return before you make a judgement. It's pretty unbecoming and, frankly, I'm not even coming to the same conclusion you are. This sounds just like some prep work to see what the market looks like. We're not actively making calls from what I can tell.

Save condemnation until you have something substantial to work with other than a tweet.

I'm sure acquiring defensive help, especially on the top pairing is important to the front office. If that came along (legit, young, top pairing guy) for Johansen it would actually we laughable to call that desperation in response to making that move.

 

[Fred Glover]

You are jumping to all kinds of solutions.

1. You are assuming we are doing anything more than listening. So far that's all that's reported is that we're listening.
2. If the right deal comes along you make it when it comes along. There is no time table. That may or may not be during the off season.

As I said wait until you see the return before you make a judgement. It's pretty unbecoming and, frankly, I'm not even coming to the same conclusion you are. This sounds just like some prep work to see what the market looks like. We're not actively making calls from what I can tell.

Save condemnation until you have something substantial to work with other than a tweet.

I'm sure acquiring defensive help, especially on the top pairing is important to the front office. If that came along (legit, young, top pairing guy) for Johansen it would actually we laughable to call that desperation in response to making that move.

You like to talk, so tell me, where have I condemned? I am just offering opinion in a thread marked as speculation. So rather than pontificating, how about reading what the title of the thread is? It is speculation. If you don't like to speculate, then hit the ignore button, or learn what the meaning of speculation is.

 

[We Want Ten]

This speculation is due to that dirtstache he has growing on his lip. Jarmo has standards.

 

[blahblah]

You like to talk, so tell me, where have I condemned?

My point is simply this, if he trades Johansen for a defenseman, which is what has been talked about, he is desperate.

con·dem·na·tion
ˌkändəmˈnāSH(ə)n/
noun
1.
the expression of very strong disapproval; censure.

An imaginary trade without an imaginary return, other than ice position, has been labeled as a negative. That implies disapproval on your part and your tone suggest that it would be strong.

As far as hitting the ignore button get off your high horses. I have no issue with the speculation and even participated in one of the talked about potential trades. I have been trying very hard to moderate my posting and I don't need this crap.

 

[Doug19]

what if Johansen skated as hard as Wild Bill.

 

[We Want Ten]

what if Johansen skated as hard as Wild Bill.

This thread would probably not exist IMO.

 

[Fred Glover]

con·dem·na·tion
ˌkändəmˈnāSH(ə)n/
noun
1.
the expression of very strong disapproval; censure.

An imaginary trade without an imaginary return, other than ice position, has been labeled as a negative. That implies disapproval on your part and your tone suggest that it would be strong.

As far as hitting the ignore button get off your high horses. I have no issue with the speculation and even participated in one of the talked about potential trades. I have been trying very hard to moderate my posting and I don't need this crap.

Cute.

Why are GM's calling Jarmo? From what others are writing, it is because some they think he may be desperate. If he makes a trade at this time of the year with this player, he will be called desperate. It will look that way to some. Will it be a good trade? I don't know, I have to wait to see the value coming back and judge the trade accordingly. I admit, I don't know everything, but I do try to give people the benefit of the doubt in their opinions, and try to understand things in a kind way. Can I be any clearer?
I hope you have a happy thanksgiving, and no, you don't have to give me a definition of either of those words.

 

[CBJx614]

Cute.

Why are GM's calling Jarmo? From what others are writing, it is because some they think he may be desperate. If he makes a trade at this time of the year with this player, he will be called desperate. It will look that way to some. Will it be a good trade? I don't know, I have to wait to see the value coming back and judge the trade accordingly. I admit, I don't know everything, but I do try to give people the benefit of the doubt in their opinions, and try to understand things in a kind way. Can I be any clearer?
I hope you have a happy thanksgiving, and no, you don't have to give me a definition of either of those words.

Why are GM's calling him? It's their job. It's their job to be shopping and listening on all players 24/7. I agree with BB, this doesn't scream as desperate. Trading whIle we were 0-8 would be desperate. Teams trading at the deadline who are all but out of it aren't considered desperate.. GM'S would recognize that he's trying to salvage the season. Big difference

Desperate to me would be Jarmo calling everyone he can, doing everything in his power to make a move. He's already said the prices for a Dman were too pricey. But that was before the Johansen rumor leaked. So we really don't have any what's going on between Jarmo and others to call his actions desperate.

 

[Dr. Fire]

Why are GM's calling him? It's their job. It's their job to be shopping and listening on all players 24/7. I agree with BB, this doesn't scream as desperate. Trading whIle we were 0-8 would be desperate. Teams trading at the deadline who are all but out of it aren't considered desperate.. GM'S would recognize that he's trying to salvage the season. Big difference

Desperate to me would be Jarmo calling everyone he can, doing everything in his power to make a move. He's already said the prices for a Dman were too pricey. But that was before the Johansen rumor leaked. So we really don't have any what's going on between Jarmo and others to call his actions desperate.

But they still know that we have a serious need for a top D man, and will still ask for to much in return.

JK needs to wait for other teams to get desperate, even if it means waiting until the trade deadline.

 

[MoeBartoli]

If was going to hang around for 3 or 4 years at $4 mill a year then patience is a virtue. To me the big issue with him is do you sign him to a 7 or 8 year deal and hope the consistency develops or do you cut bait and get as much as possible as soon as possible?

If he goes to arbitration and wins a one year deal then we risk losing him for a bunch of picks.

No one wanted to trade Nash right before he signed his big deal. By the end there weren't many who weren't happy to see him go. To me the similarities here are striking.

EspenK - I think your post well captures the issue at hand. I would add it concerns me the energy/desire issue since it appears under two coaches of very different styles. Some mature, others don't. RyJo? Dunno.

 

[CBJx614]

But they still know that we have a serious need for a top D man, and will still ask for to much in return.

JK needs to wait for other teams to get desperate, even if it means waiting until the trade deadline.

I'm not %100 sold we need to go out and get a bona-fide #1D. Let's say we sell the bank (Johansen) to go get one and then within 2 years Murray and Werenski are already needing more minutes because have 5 defenseman who are looking for 25min/night. Obviously a good problem to have, but if we can get another JJ type for a lot less than Johansen I'm in favor of that. Someone who "could" be a number 1 on a few teams, but realistically is better as a #2 or 3 even. Basically someone to push Prout off the roster and forces serious competition when Golo is back (whenever that may be)

 

[TaketheCannoli]

If Jarmo trades Johansen (and I don't think he will) for a #1 defenseman this is an indictment of Jarmo's inability and/or unwillingness to fix the defense in the offseason.

This is another black mark on the reign of Jarmo and JD. A good GM doesn't allow this to get out. How many deals go down that no one had a clue were in the works?

I'm not necessarily against trading any player for the right return. If someone wants to make an offer the Jackets can't refuse then by all means make the deal.

I remember when Lamoriello was with the Devils, he made it clear to other GMs that if their discussions became public they were over. He made it clear to his staff that if this kind of information became public they would be terminated.

If, as Viqsi has aptly named Jarmo, Dr. Evil wants to get rid of Johansen allowing it to leak lowers his value and can affect the entire team. If they don't get what they want in return, it can poison the relationship with Johansen and make negotiations more contentious and lower his value on the trade market as well. Nothing good can come from allowing this to get out. I say dump all three: JD, JK and Tortorella.

 

[major major]

I'm not %100 sold we need to go out and get a bona-fide #1D. Let's say we sell the bank (Johansen) to go get one and then within 2 years Murray and Werenski are already needing more minutes because have 5 defenseman who are looking for 25min/night. Obviously a good problem to have, but if we can get another JJ type for a lot less than Johansen I'm in favor of that. Someone who "could" be a number 1 on a few teams, but realistically is better as a #2 or 3 even. Basically someone to push Prout off the roster and forces serious competition when Golo is back (whenever that may be)

JJ is not what you think he is. I think it's already charitable to call him a #2/#3. Adding another JJ would just add to our glut of substandard D.

Jones, Murray, Savard and Werenski could be a Stanley Cup top 4 in a few years, and not one bit superfluous.

 

[CBJx614]

JJ is not what you think he is. I think it's already charitable to call him a #2/#3. Adding another JJ would just add to our glut of substandard D.

Jones, Murray, Savard and Werenski could be a Stanley Cup top 4 in a few years, and not one bit superfluous.

I guess, salary cap wise, it'd be feasable if Johansen was shipped off to be able to afford all 4 of them.

And I really didnt phrase it right I guess. I just meant someone who can log some big minutes early on and really be able to relinquish them as Murray, Werenski, Savard or Goloubef take on more and more minutes or roles and it not kill us cap wise to have that player slide in a 4/5 position and not completely kill us capwise.(which is the hard part)

That being said, I think Jones would fit that bill. Hes definitely not a #1 either, like Murray, the potential is obviously there. Having young corps of defenseman you posted + Golo so young, developing together like that could be some thing special to behold.

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

One way to look into Jarmo Kekäläinen and the quest for number one centreman is the Chief himself, Olli Jokinen.

One WJC and SM-liiga winner's Canada Chalice before Olli Jokinen was just a 15-games rookie with Kekäläinen's hometown team KalPa until he was snatched by HIFK, general managered by Kekäläinen.

 

[CBJx614]

One way to look into Jarmo Kekäläinen and the quest for number one centreman is the Chief himself, Olli Jokinen.

One WJC and SM-liiga winner's Canada Chalice before Olli Jokinen was just a 15-games rookie with Kekäläinen's hometown team KalPa until he was snatched by HIFK, general managered by Kekäläinen.

I'm not quite sure I'm following. I kinda of sorta think I might get what are you're getting at, but honestly I have no clue.

 

[Derby]

I'm not quite sure I'm following. I kinda of sorta think I might get what are you're getting at, but honestly I have no clue.

Glad I am not the only one.

 

[major major]

I guess, salary cap wise, it'd be feasable if Johansen was shipped off to be able to afford all 4 of them.

And I really didnt phrase it right I guess. I just meant someone who can log some big minutes early on and really be able to relinquish them as Murray, Werenski, Savard or Goloubef take on more and more minutes or roles and it not kill us cap wise to have that player slide in a 4/5 position and not completely kill us capwise.(which is the hard part)

That being said, I think Jones would fit that bill. Hes definitely not a #1 either, like Murray, the potential is obviously there. Having young corps of defenseman you posted + Golo so young, developing together like that could be some thing special to behold.

To me, a guy who fills in and then slides down to 4/5 is distinct from a guy like Jones. I'm very much arguing for the latter as opposed to the former. There's a good chance you can wait for years for Werenski to come along and it still leaves us with a below average D core. I don't want to do that.

 

[NotWendell]

To me, a guy who fills in and then slides down to 4/5 is distinct from a guy like Jones. I'm very much arguing for the latter as opposed to the former. There's a good chance you can wait for years for Werenski to come along and it still leaves us with a below average D core. I don't want to do that.

I think we need BOTH a #1 AND Werenski.

 

[NotWendell]

This is another black mark on the reign of Jarmo and JD. A good GM doesn't allow this to get out. How many deals go down that no one had a clue were in the works?

I think this intentionally got out to send Johansen a message.

 

[CBJx614]

To me, a guy who fills in and then slides down to 4/5 is distinct from a guy like Jones. I'm very much arguing for the latter as opposed to the former. There's a good chance you can wait for years for Werenski to come along and it still leaves us with a below average D core. I don't want to do that.

Thats what makes Jarmos job so important, well his, the scouts and the coaching staff. They should have put some kind of time table on him in the summer. Jarmo is gonna act differently if hes thinking Werenski is gonna be ready to play in the NHL next year where as if its gonna be 2+ years I think he'd be more willing to go out and make a big move. Dont get me wrong, im not against going out and getting a player like Jones as you can never have to many good defensemen. Its just you want to make sure you're getting the absolute best you can when you're trading your #1C, not like I needed to tell you that though.

 

[major major]

Thats what makes Jarmos job so important, well his, the scouts and the coaching staff. They should have put some kind of time table on him in the summer. Jarmo is gonna act differently if hes thinking Werenski is gonna be ready to play in the NHL next year where as if its gonna be 2+ years I think he'd be more willing to go out and make a big move. Dont get me wrong, im not against going out and getting a player like Jones as you can never have to many good defensemen. Its just you want to make sure you're getting the absolute best you can when you're trading your #1C, not like I needed to tell you that though.

I doubt that factors in much. A guy straight out of college is very unlikely to be an immediate top pair player. It takes very long for D to develop and we aren't likely to know what Werenski will become until he's actually a few years into playing here.

 

[Xoggz22]

I think people in the hockey world saw Joey demoted to the 4th line, know Torts history, continue to believe there is a riff and read about his TOI to put together and article for people to read and create a buzz.

GM's listen. It's what they should do. Their in some juicy tidbits of history and you have a story. This isn't a leak. This isn't a trade effort. This it's something a losing team this through when sound signs can be pulled. There are bigger things to worry about with this team.

 

[TaketheCannoli]

I think this intentionally got out to send Johansen a message.

Lee you have a strong business background. There are much better ways to send messages. This is just business. Allowing this to get outside can cause serious damage to the team.

It's unprofessional i.e. amateurish.

 

[MAHJ71]

There are less #1 centers in the league than there are teams. Dealing Johansen would be the dumbest thing this franchise has ever done - and that's really saying something. Something like this would make me seriously question if I could continue to support this organization.

Oh no! I'm sure this is exactly what Jarmo is afraid of!