Ryan Johansen II (contract etc)

[WannabeFinn]

 

[cslebn]

I got nothing else on this topic except to echo these. I will confess to being more bored than frustrated that it hasn't been settled, if only because it seems relatively obvious and simple. But what are you gonna do?

If Joey got signed, what else would we have to talk about?
I personally don't mind the fun of hashing numbers. I just understand that it will in no way impact the actual outcome of this situation.

 

[Nanabijou]

One thing that is slightly interesting to me (it's been a slow summer for CBJ news) is the role Bill Zito has in all this. Yes, he is working with numbers that are hashed out with JK and JD. But, from what has been reported, it has been Zito that is doing the negotiations so far, who is relatively new to this side of the table.

I find it potentially intriguing that you have these two long-time agents, who likely were in some ways competing for clients in the past, now going face-to-face. Likely they both know each other's tendencies and tricks. So, both sides are instead waiting for the other side to play their cards first.

Porty, if you're reading, I'd be interested in hearing more about Zito's style and negotiating history and how it contrasts to Overhardt. Granted, Dubi's contract got done quickly, but it wasn't clear to me that Zito was the lead negotiator on that one.

 

[Nanabijou]

Well, I decided to play with Google and see if I could find if Zito and Overhardt had a history together. Other than the Johansen stuff, the other story that keeps coming up with Zito and Overhardt in it is the Niemi-Turco saga from 2010. Zito represented Niemi and couldn't get a deal done with the Cup champion Hawks due to salary cap issues. Hawks decided to cut Niemi free and go with Turco instead, who was represented by Overhardt.

Not much, but that was all I found with a 10 minute Google search.

 

[NotWendell]

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

One thing that is slightly interesting to me (it's been a slow summer for CBJ news) is the role Bill Zito has in all this. Yes, he is working with numbers that are hashed out with JK and JD. But, from what has been reported, it has been Zito that is doing the negotiations so far, who is relatively new to this side of the table.

I find it potentially intriguing that you have these two long-time agents, who likely were in some ways competing for clients in the past, now going face-to-face. Likely they both know each other's tendencies and tricks. So, both sides are instead waiting for the other side to play their cards first.

Porty, if you're reading, I'd be interested in hearing more about Zito's style and negotiating history and how it contrasts to Overhardt. Granted, Dubi's contract got done quickly, but it wasn't clear to me that Zito was the lead negotiator on that one.

I would certainly think that Zito has the upper hand since he knows all the tricks for negotiating on the players side. Maybe thats why there has been know movement. He knows the game and is being patient.

 

[db2011]

My disenchantment with Joey is that I don't understand why he has chosen this very early point in this career to create a fight. If this is how he wants to act now, there is little chance to keep him once he is a UFA. He will be gone to one of the teams with the big check books. So I am beginning to think the Great Divorce is, ultimately, almost inevitable.

There isn't, to me, much reason to think that this isn't one of the teams with the big check books. We've been in the upper reaches of payroll for 2 seasons running now, and last year it really began to pay off.

Everyone talks about how great of a hockey market Columbus will be once we start icing a competitive team. We did it last year, and Nationwide during the Pens series was arguably the talk of the NHL playoffs for a brief time.

I would like the team (or whomever) to stop worrying about expenditures, pay a world class player a deserving salary, and put a ****ing flag on the map saying come here to Columbus, guys, and try to beat this team.

Let's stop playing payroll games with elite, young #1 centers, jarmo stop trying to be so clever in payroll manipulation, and win the Metropolitan division.

 

[WannabeFinn]

It's literally his job to cleverly manipulate the payroll

 

[KJ Dangler]

There isn't, to me, much reason to think that this isn't one of the teams with the big check books. We've been in the upper reaches of payroll for 2 seasons running now, and last year it really began to pay off.

Everyone talks about how great of a hockey market Columbus will be once we start icing a competitive team. We did it last year, and Nationwide during the Pens series was arguably the talk of the NHL playoffs for a brief time.

I would like the team (or whomever) to stop worrying about expenditures, pay a world class player a deserving salary, and put a ****ing flag on the map saying come here to Columbus, guys, and try to beat this team.

Let's stop playing payroll games with elite, young #1 centers, jarmo stop trying to be so clever in payroll manipulation, and win the Metropolitan division.

That's fine, and after Joey proves himself to be this world class player , we can talk about the jackets paying him like one. Just cause you have salary cap room doesn't mean your gm should hand out foolish contracts. Especially a team like the jackets , that have to balance future contracts for bob, Wennberg, rychel , Jenner , etc. There are pleanty of examples of nhl teams paying players a terrible contract, and then it cripples the team going forward. To me, if Joey honestly thinks he's worth 7 mill, for one good season, when he was bad the first 2 , it really reinforces the whispers that he may be a diva . If Joey and his agent want to go down this road , I feel very confident that jarmo and jD Come out on top . But to me this whole situation reinforces the concerns the jackets have with what's going on in joeys head. If he honestly thinks he's an elite player , he should have no problem earning that contract. But from the jackets standpoint , I'm sure they would like a refund on what they paid him the first couple years, when he was invisible . Earn your contract Joey !

 

[blahblah]

If I were CBJ GM I'd give him the 7-8 mil/year for 2 seasons he wants.

Anything less is a joke to him. It's easy to think he's greedy but he's worth 3 million less than Toews not 6 million, Sorry.

And coming from the Vancouver fan. Shocking.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

My disenchantment with Joey is that I don't understand why he has chosen this very early point in this career to create a fight. If this is how he wants to act now, there is little chance to keep him once he is a UFA. He will be gone to one of the teams with the big check books. So I am beginning to think the Great Divorce is, ultimately, almost inevitable.

It's not a fight. It's a contract negotiation. PK Subban went to freakin' arbitration! Jamie Benn held out into training camp.

Are there concerns now about those players staying with those teams? Enough with the "Joey is going to leave because of this negotiation" nonsense.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

That's fine, and after Joey proves himself to be this world class player , we can talk about the jackets paying him like one. Just cause you have salary cap room doesn't mean your gm should hand out foolish contracts. Especially a team like the jackets , that have to balance future contracts for bob, Wennberg, rychel , Jenner , etc. There are pleanty of examples of nhl teams paying players a terrible contract, and then it cripples the team going forward. To me, if Joey honestly thinks he's worth 7 mill, for one good season, when he was bad the first 2 , it really reinforces the whispers that he may be a diva . If Joey and his agent want to go down this road , I feel very confident that jarmo and jD Come out on top . But to me this whole situation reinforces the concerns the jackets have with what's going on in joeys head. If he honestly thinks he's an elite player , he should have no problem earning that contract. But from the jackets standpoint , I'm sure they would like a refund on what they paid him the first couple years, when he was invisible . Earn your contract Joey !

Yep, better trade that diva Joey because we have to worry about re-signing Wennberg and Rychel who have yet to play a minute in the NHL.

Who cares about making the playoffs, Joey was invisible as a 19 year old!

I like how you want him to earn a contract with his play, but refuse to count his play from this year. Get a grip, pal...clearly you are a card carrying member of the D Mac Lunch Pail Brigade

 

[blahblah]

Last three years goal totals for Dubinsky

10
2 (shortened season)
16

I get the intangibles Dubinsky brings but...the numbers don't lie.

I feel a bridge for what Dubinsky brings (5.86) is what Johansen deserves.

I have no issue with what you think he "deserves". You were the one getting all dramatic over 800k a season.

It's more than just "intangibles". Dubinsky got that money on more than just intangibles. You focused completely on goals. Keep in mind that Dubinsky has lead the forwards in assists in his two seasons here. His production has been solidly in the top six category. In special teams Dubinsky had 14 points, including 4 short handed points. Johansen has 20, all on the PP.

There was that site that talked about Dubinsky and how his numbers stacked up against other centers around his production - his contract was pretty favorable.

Johansen has had one season. A break out season as that. He produced like a top line player. I hope he continues that performance, but it's fairly easy to see why our front office is looking at this conservatively.

You negotiate different with veterans as opposed to RFA's with only one year of performance at the dollars he's asking.

 

[PubOFH]

Yep, better trade that diva Joey because we have to worry about re-signing Wennberg and Rychel who have yet to play a minute in the NHL.

Who cares about making the playoffs, Joey was invisible as a 19 year old!

I like how you want him to earn a contract with his play, but refuse to count his play from this year. Get a grip, pal...clearly you are a card carrying member of the D Mac Lunch Pail Brigade

Do you ever not put words in peoples mouths? Geez.

 

[db2011]

It's literally his job to cleverly manipulate the payroll

Unlike most of your posts, there's not much value to this one. Are you under the impression I don't know that?

 

[JacketsDavid]

There isn't, to me, much reason to think that this isn't one of the teams with the big check books. We've been in the upper reaches of payroll for 2 seasons running now, and last year it really began to pay off.

Everyone talks about how great of a hockey market Columbus will be once we start icing a competitive team. We did it last year, and Nationwide during the Pens series was arguably the talk of the NHL playoffs for a brief time.

I would like the team (or whomever) to stop worrying about expenditures, pay a world class player a deserving salary, and put a ****ing flag on the map saying come here to Columbus, guys, and try to beat this team.

Unless something has changed one major difference between Cbus and other markets is the (small) size of the media contract. I have not looked at in in a few years but the CBJ media income (what TV and Radio stations pay for rights) was very narrow compared to many other clubs.

Also will need to prove that the fan base will show up for weekday games. Will be interesting to see how much (actual) attendance is up this year.

 

[KJ Dangler]

Yep, better trade that diva Joey because we have to worry about re-signing Wennberg and Rychel who have yet to play a minute in the NHL.

Who cares about making the playoffs, Joey was invisible as a 19 year old!

I like how you want him to earn a contract with his play, but refuse to count his play from this year. Get a grip, pal...clearly you are a card carrying member of the D Mac Lunch Pail Brigade

I love how u cherry pick your arguments, your right we shouldn't have any discipline in handing out contracts . Fact is we have a ton of young talent that jarmo has to plan for salary cap wise with Bob, Murray , wennberg, rychel , Jenner , etc , so a gm can't hand out foolish contracts . What a sad argument that I must not value skill because I want to see johansen who is known to have issues with motivation , apply himself for more than 1 year . You want him to be paid like a stamkos based off one year , but want to ignore his previous 2 . He was invisible in year 2 , and sent to the ahl, only to be benched for attitude/ lack of effort . All I'm saying , if he doesn't get reasonable as to what he's worth , I won't be suprised to see jarmo or jD send his azz packing for a nice return

 

[db2011]

I love how u cherry pick your arguments, your right we shouldn't have any discipline in handing out contracts . Fact is we have a ton of young talent that jarmo has to plan for salary cap wise with Bob, Murray , wennberg, rychel , Jenner , etc , so a gm can't hand out foolish contracts . What a sad argument that I must not value skill because I want to see johansen who is known to have issues with motivation , apply himself for more than 1 year . You want him to be paid like a stamkos based off one year , but want to ignore his previous 2 . He was invisible in year 2 , and sent to the ahl, only to be benched for attitude/ lack of effort . All I'm saying , if he doesn't get reasonable as to what he's worth , I won't be suprised to see jarmo or jD send his azz packing for a nice return

We are not in a position to worry about Wennberg's and Rychel's salary impact to the detriment of Joey's. Take care of, you know, NHL players before guys who haven't stepped on the ice at this level.

Joey was certainly visible in the second half of his second year.

 

[EspenK]

We are not in a position to worry about Wennberg's and Rychel's salary impact to the detriment of Joey's. Take care of, you know, NHL players before guys who haven't stepped on the ice at this level.

Joey was certainly visible in the second half of his second year.

Disagree with the bolded. Of course a GM has to look forward regarding salary cap and internal budgets. If he doesn't he'll be like the Bruins, Rangers, etc trying to figure out how to fill his roster with more than serviceable talent.

I don't know if you have played around with cap figures but I have and if Jarmo's not careful (and perhaps even if he is) either the cap or the internal budget could very well become issues down the road, in about 3 to 5 years when the young guys are coming off entry levels and veterans need to be re-signed.

If the cap is 85-90 million do you think the Jackets will be spending to it? I have a hard time seeing that happening and I wouldn't be handing out big ticket contracts willy nilly in the hope everything will be okay down the road.

 

[db2011]

Disagree with the bolded. Of course a GM has to look forward regarding salary cap and internal budgets. If he doesn't he'll be like the Bruins, Rangers, etc trying to figure out how to fill his roster with more than serviceable talent.

I don't know if you have played around with cap figures but I have and if Jarmo's not careful (and perhaps even if he is) either the cap or the internal budget could very well become issues down the road, in about 3 to 5 years when the young guys are coming off entry levels and veterans need to be re-signed.

If the cap is 85-90 million do you think the Jackets will be spending to it? I have a hard time seeing that happening and I wouldn't be handing out big ticket contracts willy nilly in the hope everything will be okay down the road.

There are worse teams to be compared to than the Bruins and the Rangers. I would like to be considered level with those two teams. (Well really I think we're better than NYR but they were Cup finalists last year so you have to pay lip service). They are big time teams and Columbus ought to think like them.

I haven't played around with any numbers, but 3-5 years down the road shouldn't overly affect negotiations with Joey, especially if you're factoring in guys who haven't played any NHL hockey yet. 3-5 years is a long time away. Put it another way, I just don't see Jarmo's concern over what he'll have to pay Wennberg and Rychel and Dano and etc. as a factor in what's holding up Joey's contract. At least I hope that's not the case.

I'm not saying hand out big contracts willy nilly. But I think the cap will go up enough to assuage some hesitation, and I don't have any predictions regarding Columbus's willingness to spend to the cap. The remains an untapped market (alas, after 15 years) and I don't recommend making assumptions about how the team will spend its money just now. We ice a great team, deep playoff runs for consecutive years, there's just no telling what will happen.

 

[PubOFH]

We are not in a position to worry about Wennberg's and Rychel's salary impact to the detriment of Joey's. Take care of, you know, NHL players before guys who haven't stepped on the ice at this level.

Joey was certainly visible in the second half of his second year.

Well run organizations and good/great GMs (in any sport) are always looking ahead balancing between now and later.

 

[Crede777]

Yeah but we are a team in a transition period.

For the first time in franchise history, our current roster is nearing the value of our future. In my opinion it has not yet met much less surpassed the value of our future, but it's trending in the right direction.

I still view Johansen, Jenner, and Murray as fundamentally players of our future. Your definition will likely differ from mine. Maybe you see Johansen as a "now" player or you see guys like Anisimov as still being players with significant value which has yet to be realized.

My point is that the question of whether we should value our present or our future more is much less clear than it has been in our past. In our past, it was almost entirely future focused.

I don't see the choice coming down to Johansen/Jenner/Murray vs. Wennberg/Rychel/Milano or whoever. I think guys like Johansen will be going up against guys like Hartnell.

I think we are a team with a ton of flexibility going forward. With Joey, we can't discount the future, but unlike in past seasons we also can't discount the present.

 

[WannabeFinn]

We still have 2 years of ELC for Jenner/Murray and 3+ years of ELC for Wennberg/Rychel/Dano, etc. I think some are worrying a little too much about their future contracts.

Not all of our prospects are going to be like Johansen and cost us 5m+ per year right off their ELCs.

 

[db2011]

Well run organizations and good/great GMs (in any sport) are always looking ahead balancing between now and later.

And the sun always rises in the East. You're offering a generalization and I'm talking about specific players here.

 

[Jovavic]

Not all of our prospects are going to be like Johansen and cost us 5m+ per year right off their ELCs.

If any of them get 30 goals in the last year of their ELCs after stinking it up the first two years, they will.