Ryan Johansen II (contract etc)

[Double-Shift Lasse]

You may not get the chance to control him for 10 years. The team has the ability to control him for whatever the remaining years of RFA status, outside of that its 100% the choice of Johanson if he chooses to stay with the team. If relations continue to be chilled, much like the ROR relationship in Colorado, once he hits UFA status he can say I want $11m per year to play in Columbus. Now of course general you's comment will be "he's not worth that" and possibly so, but that may be what he says it will cost to play for this organization. He very well may decide to sign in Vancouver for $7m or $8m.

A two-year bridge contract leaves Johansen RFA. Setting aside the term "control" which I don't like, the team still has leverage in negotiating the next contract, so this whole scenario you've painted is irrelevant.

If Joey is smart he signs the the bridge and then if he continues to improve, he takes us to the cleaners in each negotiation for a contract. At least that's what I would do if i felt slighted, regardless of the reason. The Bob and Joey deal has the chance to really blow up in JK's face as far as costs go.

Addressed a mere two posts up. By offering a bridge contract, the Jackets are basically saying they're willing to be "taken to the cleaners."

The bridge contract basically means an organization is saying "We're willing to pay a player more money over a longer period of time in return for hedging against a player's development stalling and/or the opportunity to maintain contract leverage with the hopes of keeping the player on our roster for a longer period of time."

So people suggesting "team gets soaked with a bridge" are missing the point.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

Agreed.

The reality is if you have 1 good statistical season, you don't get rewarded all that much for it.

Tell that to Tyler Myers, Cam Fowler, Ryan Nugent Hopkins, etc...

 

[EspenK]

Tell that to Tyler Myers, Cam Fowler, Ryan Nugent Hopkins, etc...

or guys like Derek Stepan can tell you don't or guys like Brassard can tell you you shouldn't. Nice cherry picking to support an argument.

 

[Hello Johnny]

Comparing the best and most exciting player on the time to a screaming toddler, all because his agent is doing his job. Real classy.

The "he's not worth asking for" argument holds no water with IHZ. Most players aren't paid exactly what they're worth, production wise...Nathan Horton? Scott Hartnell? James Wisniewski? Jared Boll? All overpaid and all with declining production and around or above age 30.

So excuse me but the Jackets won't implode if they overpay a young Ryan Johansen. Better they overpay a young guy, who plays the most important position on the team, who has a ton of upside and 50 goal potential, and a very likelihood of getting better over the course of the deal, then overpay another veteran.

Oh I'm sorry. I forgot HF was such a reputable site; Joey certainly must have read my comments and gotten his feelings hurt. I take back what I said

A slight overpayment for those you mentioned is a little different than allocating 1/10 of the salary cap for a player who still has a lot to prove. Horton would have gotten that money anywhere, we're not the ones who paid Hartnell (and he's pretty much earned his paychecks), and Wiz would have gotten that money anywhere as well. Free agency is a funny thing: players can command a lot of money. Go figure! Boll is definitely overpaid by quite a bit though, I'll concede that.

 

[blahblah]

We seem to be taking sides here. I see both sides of the argument and would be looking at the same things if I was JK or Johansen's agent.

I don't think it's necessary to take sides. Let them negotiate. These things happen in sports. It's really not an issue.

Personally I think there is more risk screwing around with this contract than just trying to meet somewhere in the middle on dollars with a 2 year term. They both seem ok with the 2 year term. Most people seem ok with that approach. It's not hard to justify 5 million for Johansen. No one would really blink (from the outside world).

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

or guys like Derek Stepan can tell you don't or guys like Brassard can tell you you shouldn't. Nice cherry picking to support an argument.

Derek Stepan who also held out last year for his contract....really derailed that team's season...

You can call it cherry picking, but they are comparables that his agent has every right to use in his negotiations. Also legit examples of why your statement was completely without merit.

 

[Cash for Nash]

We seem to be taking sides here. I see both sides of the argument and would be looking at the same things if I was JK or Johansen's agent.

I don't think it's necessary to take sides. Let them negotiate. These things happen in sports. It's really not an issue.

Personally I think there is more risk screwing around with this contract than just trying to meet somewhere in the middle on dollars with a 2 year term. They both seem ok with the 2 year term. Most people seem ok with that approach. It's not hard to justify 5 million for Johansen. No one would really blink (from the outside world).

Hell no. If Dubinsky earned a 5.85MM annual salary then Johansen deserves 5.86MM. He's the number one Center on the team for Christ Sakes and our best player.

Now what we don't know is if he wouldn't budge for anything less than 6MM. That's where it gets dicey.

 

[EspenK]

Derek Stepan who also held out last year for his contract....really derailed that team's season...

You can call it cherry picking, but they are comparables that his agent has every right to use in his negotiations. Also legit examples of why your statement was completely without merit.

And my examples are legit comparisons for Jarmo to use. Just showing both (all 3) sides of the argument.

And Stepan's holdout didn't help him or the team. They qualified for the playoffs by what, 3 points or so? If it took him a couple of weeks more to get in gear their run to the finals would not have happened.

 

[Sore Loser]

[/B]


Hell no. If Dubinsky earned a 5.85MM annual salary then Johansen deserves 5.86MM. He's the number one Center on the team for Christ Sakes and our best player.

Now what we don't know is if he wouldn't budge for anything less than 6MM. That's where it gets dicey.

That seems like a short-term vision ... even as one of the top Johansen supporters on the board, it's getting to the point where he has to take a step back in his desires. Does he want to be a Jacket, or does he want to be a holdout?

A fair term for both sides would be 2 years @ 5.25-5.75 per ... anything more than that is unfair to one side, and anything less than that is unfair to the other.

 

[blahblah]

[/B]

Hell no. If Dubinsky earned a 5.85MM annual salary then Johansen deserves 5.86MM. He's the number one Center on the team for Christ Sakes and our best player.

So I guess you are in the minority.

Dubinsky is a veteran with a history of performance, Johansen is a RFA vet without that history.

I'm not going to fight with you, just saying that you negotiate different with these players. If Johansen keeps up his play he will be looking at 6 million a long way down the road in the rear view mirror soon enough.

 

[EspenK]

That seems like a short-term vision ... even as one of the top Johansen supporters on the board, it's getting to the point where he has to take a step back in his desires. Does he want to be a Jacket, or does he want to be a holdout?

A fair term for both sides would be 2 years @ 5.25-5.75 per ... anything more than that is unfair to one side, and anything less than that is unfair to the other.

This about sums it up. He is 21-22 years old. I think he can scrape by on 5.5 per for 2 years.

 

[cslebn]

So negotiation goes something like:

CBJ: we'll offer 5M, that's up 1M

Joey Camp: 6.5M....

CBJ: we went up 1M, you should come down 1M... (if that worked it'd be a nice real compromise at 5.5M)

Joey Camp: 6.75M...

 

[EDM]

I have been one who believes that we should just wait t his out. But I have to admit that more and more I am becoming disenchanted with Joey.

 

[Crede777]

Tell that to Tyler Myers, Cam Fowler, Ryan Nugent Hopkins, etc...

AAV's of $5.5 million, $4.0 million, and $6.0 million respectively.

Now tell me why Johansen deserves more than $6 million as he's apparently holding out for. Especially when those guys have demonstrated a little more than Johansen has.

I'm fine with him getting what Bobrovsky got. That'd be right in the middle of the players you mentioned. Johansen, however, is holding out for more. His argument is that he's one of the top centers in the league right now. That may be so, but we can't be sure yet. It's one, single, data point which doesn't make a trend. We don't know if it's an outlier or what.

If you were talking about contract years, you'd have a point, but the issue isn't the years anymore. They're both willing to do 2. The issue is the dollar amount.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

AAV's of $5.5 million, $4.0 million, and $6.0 million respectively.

Now tell me why Johansen deserves more than $6 million as he's apparently holding out for. Especially when those guys have demonstrated a little more than Johansen has.

I'm fine with him getting what Bobrovsky got. That'd be right in the middle of the players you mentioned. Johansen, however, is holding out for more. His argument is that he's one of the top centers in the league right now. That may be so, but we can't be sure yet. It's one, single, data point which doesn't make a trend. We don't know if it's an outlier or what.

What his is agent asking for since you are apparently party to the negotiations? Can you site something other than an Arace hack column?

 

[Crede777]

What his is agent asking for since you are apparently party to the negotiations? Can you site something other than an Arace hack column?

Everyone on here, except you apparently, understands that he's asking for more than $6 million.

If anyone else on here doubts that claim, let them say so. Otherwise, you're all alone and there can't be any constructive dialogue to be had with you.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

Everyone on here, except you apparently, understands that he's asking for more than $6 million.

If anyone else on here doubts that claim, let them say so. Otherwise, you're all alone and there can't be any constructive dialogue to be had with you.

A standard negotiating is asking for a high amount, while the team asks for a low amount, and then finding common ground somewhere in the middle. It doesn't make the player some sort of diva because his agent using common negotiating tactics.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

I have been one who believes that we should just wait t his out. But I have to admit that more and more I am becoming disenchanted with Joey.

Kind of sad that I would even I have to point this out but it makes no sense to change your opinion of a player or the type of person he is based on the way his agent does business. Joey is in great shape, coming to Columbus to train with his teammates, and is ready to build off last season. His agent is working on getting him a new deal.

 

[Cash for Nash]

So I guess you are in the minority.

Dubinsky is a veteran with a history of performance, Johansen is a RFA vet without that history.

I'm not going to fight with you, just saying that you negotiate different with these players. If Johansen keeps up his play he will be looking at 6 million a long way down the road in the rear view mirror soon enough.

Last three years goal totals for Dubinsky

10
2 (shortened season)
16

I get the intangibles Dubinsky brings but...the numbers don't lie.

I feel a bridge for what Dubinsky brings (5.86) is what Johansen deserves.

 

[EspenK]

Rick Nash once scored 41 goals for the Jackets. He once received a long term contract for 7.8 mill a year. How did that work out for the Jackets?
Point being that one season does not a superstar make. Dubi's been around long enough to know what you're going to get from him. Joey not so much. We think (hope) that he is the real deal but most of us need another couple of years and then lock him up. That being said if Jarmo is still stuck at 4 mill I think that's wrong too. Hopefully his agent won't be a hard ass for the long term and talk Joey into holding out. I don't see that helping anyone.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/08/26/will-johansen-be-the-latest-overhardt-holdout/

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Kind of sad that I would even I have to point this out but it makes no sense to change your opinion of a player or the type of person he is based on the way his agent does business. Joey is in great shape, coming to Columbus to train with his teammates, and is ready to build off last season. His agent is working on getting him a new deal.

100% this.

 

[pete goegan]

100% this.

OK, but neither of you know what shape he's in, what his attitude toward the new season is, or his travel plans (except, of course, from what you've read in columns written by hacks who can't possibly be trusted to know more than anonymous board posters).

That aside, I, too, don't blame Johansen's agent for doing his job, as long as they get a contract signed before a few days into camp.

 

[EspenK]

"..a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest..." Paul Simon

 

[Zaddy91]

If I were CBJ GM I'd give him the 7-8 mil/year for 2 seasons he wants.

Anything less is a joke to him. It's easy to think he's greedy but he's worth 3 million less than Toews not 6 million, Sorry.

 

[Mayor Bee]

"..a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest..." Paul Simon

Thanks, I'd love an omelet right about now.