Ryan Johansen II (contract etc)
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SuperGenius
For Duty & Humanity!
- Mar 18, 2008
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He did miss his flight, and some speculated that was on purpose because he didn't want to go. However, he did play in some games before being benched, so I think you have it wrong.
http://bluejacketsxtra.dispatch.com/content/stories/2013/05/21/johansen-benched-during-ahl-playoffs.html
PubOFH
Registered User
I dont believe, and I have never believed, that Ryan Johansen has heart for the game. I think his skill level is so high that he does well in spite of his lack of effort or passion for the game. If we were to give him a long term deal now, he would be a total bust, almost guaranteed. The absolute highest I would go is 2 year $9 million. While he oozes with talent, he is void of passion. Until he displays this, he will never be an elite player in this league.
EspenK
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2011
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I tend to agree but I would go higher in $ (5-5.5) but no more than the 2 years. And I'm not sure he'd be a total bust in absolute terms but could easily become one relative to his contract.
"void of passion," eh?
What is this based on?
He was a complete beast last season and carried this team on his back. What more do you need to see to prove his passion? Getting punched in the head like Jared Boll?
Why doesn't another team just put out an offer sheet that takes him up to his free agent year at a fair price (4 years for $24-$27 million)? If it so critical to Columbus that he have a bridge deal, that would defeat that plan and guarantee that Johansen gets free agency when first available which is the thing Columbus most wants to avoid. And even the legitimate threat of it would likely force Columbus to offer something more lucrative in a short or long term proposal.
because if a team does this, then they have to watch out for another team paying them back when one of their RFA's are coming up.
WTF. Have you been scouting this kid since he was 9 or something? He was a total stud last year at 21. Defense, offense, engaged etc.
I wouldn't go that far. I'll say this, Joey is a follower, not a leader. There are alot of 30 goal scoring followers in the league that have been integral parts of championship teams.
He's not Toews, but maybe Kane?
Debrincat93
Registered User
I guess going from a playoff AHL scratch to a dominant #1 center means a void of passion/desire.. #worstscoutingreportof2014
Wow...so Joey never had and never will have passion
Joey played like a stud most of this past season, especially last third of regular season and playoffs.
But he is not as outspoken and does not display passion outwardly as do a few others (I like to see that passion, but that doesn't mean Joey doesn't have it.).
He is extremely talented - he just makes it look easy, and he excels against better teams. That doesn't make him lazy or lacking passion - does show me he wants to be the best. He is still learning how to do it every night - and not glide against lesser opponents like he occassionally did early in the year. But he didn't glide with the playoff race on, and certainly not in the playoffs...Stuck it in Pittsburgh's earhole every chance he had. He's young and watching older leaders take charge, trying to negotiate his first deal (ELC is not a negotiation). Somehow translates into lack of passion?
Does translate into some concern about future effort, yes, and we all agree to disagree on how much risk there is and how much to pay.
If making it look easy is a sign of lack of passion, then same could be said for Ryan Murray. AND that too would also be
It's just that Murray never got benched at Springfield, never had the attitude issue called out - probably never had an attitude problem because of D position, he was learning the hard way and covering a certain other D's arse. Murray just played without fanfare. But Joey and Murray play similar games albeit different positions - in that they are talented and the game looks like it comes easy to them. The puck follows them, they don't follow the puck. Not bashing Joey with this comparison to Murray. Just from the outside looking in, Murray appears a tad more mature - but Joey coming fast. And that is outside looking in - could be a different take from the room and FO.
Joey's first 2 years - he was a KID. Played like it at times - incredibly talented and focused at times, appearing disinterested at other times. But he WAS A KID! The breakout stud year after 2 tough learning years is what makes the negotiation difficult. Joey wants paid like the 2013-14 Joey - the argument being that is who he is NOW, that he will only get better for many years to come, and that the first two years were just growing pains. If he is 2013-14 Joey year-in and year out, then he would deserve $6M+ for his 4th-5th years in NHL. If he had performed all 3 years, he would probably get that. Conversely, CBJ looking at 2011-12 and 2012-13 models as well, wanting him to be 2013-14 Joey but not sure he won't regress to 2012-13, and with some (but not total) justification for the doubt. They want to see more before paying top of the line dollars. If Joey plateaus at 2013-14 level and doesn't keep working, or omg regresses, then $4.5M+ would be about right. That's why the middle ground will be reached at some point - both sides have some merit in their position, the FO is too low, Joey is too high. Neither is wrong, and they will get to middle ground, sooner or later (pray sooner). And CBJ will pay Joey handsomely if Joey brings it the next two years - and both sides will be happy with that.
Joey never had and and never will have passion for hockey...
Joey played like a stud most of this past season, especially last third of regular season and playoffs.
But he is not as outspoken and does not display passion outwardly as do a few others (I like to see that passion, but that doesn't mean Joey doesn't have it.).
He is extremely talented - he just makes it look easy, and he excels against better teams. That doesn't make him lazy or lacking passion - does show me he wants to be the best. He is still learning how to do it every night - and not glide against lesser opponents like he occassionally did early in the year. But he didn't glide with the playoff race on, and certainly not in the playoffs...Stuck it in Pittsburgh's earhole every chance he had. He's young and watching older leaders take charge, trying to negotiate his first deal (ELC is not a negotiation). Somehow translates into lack of passion?
Does translate into some concern about future effort, yes, and we all agree to disagree on how much risk there is and how much to pay. If making it look easy is a sign of lack of passion, then same could be said for Ryan Murray. AND that too would also be
It's just that Murray never got benched at Springfield, never had the attitude issue called out - probably never had an attitude problem because of D position, he was learning the hard way and covering a certain other D's arse. Murray just played without fanfare. But Joey and Murray play similar games albeit different positions - in that they are talented and the game looks like it comes easy to them. The puck follows them, they don't follow the puck. Not bashing Joey with this comparison to Murray. Just from the outside looking in, Murray appears a tad more mature - but Joey coming fast. And that is outside looking in - could be a different take from the room and FO.
Joey's first 2 years - he was a KID. Played like it at times - incredibly talented and focused at times, appearing disinterested at other times. But he WAS A KID! The breakout stud year after 2 tough learning years is what makes the negotiation difficult. Joey wants paid like the 2013-14 Joey - the argument being that is who he is NOW, that he will only get better for many years to come, and that the first two years were just growing pains. If he is 2013-14 Joey year-in and year out, then he would deserve $6M+ for his 4th-5th years in NHL. If he had performed all 3 years, he would probably get that. Conversely, CBJ looking at 2011-12 and 2012-13 models as well, wanting him to be 2013-14 Joey but not sure he won't regress to 2012-13, and with some (but not total) justification for the doubt. They want to see more before paying top of the line dollars. If Joey plateaus at 2013-14 level and doesn't keep working, or omg regresses, then $4.5M+ would be about right. That's why the middle ground will be reached at some point - both sides have some merit in their position, the FO is too low, Joey is too high. Neither is wrong, and they will get to middle ground, sooner or later (pray sooner). And CBJ will pay Joey handsomely if Joey brings it the next two years - and both sides will be happy with that.
Joey never had and and never will have passion for hockey...
Wow...so Joey never had and never will have passion
Joey played like a stud most of this past season, especially last third of regular season and playoffs.
But he is not as outspoken and does not display passion outwardly as do a few others (I like to see that passion, but that doesn't mean Joey doesn't have it.).
He is extremely talented - he just makes it look easy, and he excels against better teams. That doesn't make him lazy or lacking passion - does show me he wants to be the best. He is still learning how to do it every night - and not glide against lesser opponents like he occassionally did early in the year. But he didn't glide with the playoff race on, and certainly not in the playoffs...Stuck it in Pittsburgh's earhole every chance he had. He's young and watching older leaders take charge, trying to negotiate his first deal (ELC is not a negotiation). Somehow translates into lack of passion?
If making it look easy is a sign of lack of passion, then same could be said for Ryan Murray. AND that too would also be
It's just that Murray never got benched at Springfield, never had the attitude issue called out - probably never had an attitude problem because of D position, he was learning the hard way and covering a certain other D's arse. Murray just played without fanfare. But Joey and Murray play similar games albeit different positions - in that they are talented and the game looks like it comes easy to them. The puck follows them, they don't follow the puck. Not bashing Joey with this comparison to Murray. Just from the outside looking in, Murray appears a tad more mature - but Joey coming fast. And that is outside looking in - could be a different take from the room and FO.
Joey's first 2 years - he was a KID. Played like it at times - incredibly talented and focused at times, appearing disinterested at other times. But he WAS A KID! The breakout stud year after 2 tough learning years is what makes the negotiation difficult. Joey wants paid like the 2013-14 Joey - the argument being that is who he is NOW, that he will only get better for many years to come, and that the first two years were just growing pains. If he is 2013-14 Joey year-in and year out, then he would deserve $6M+ for his 4th-5th years in NHL. If he had performed all 3 years, he would probably get that. Conversely, CBJ looking at 2011-12 and 2012-13 models as well, wanting him to be 2013-14 Joey but not sure he won't regress to 2012-13, and with some (but not total) justification for the doubt. They want to see more before paying top of the line dollars. If Joey plateaus at 2013-14 level and doesn't keep working, or omg regresses, then $4.5M+ would be about right. That's why the middle ground will be reached at some point - both sides have some merit in their position, the FO is too low, Joey is too high. Neither is wrong, and they will get to middle ground, sooner or later (pray sooner). And CBJ will pay Joey handsomely if Joey brings it the next two years - and both sides will be happy with that.
Joey never had and and never will have passion for hockey...
Good post.
Since there is little data to suggest that Johansen has little passion for the game, I guess the above poster is simply going on observation. One AHL scratch after a compressed schedule after playing at the level of intensity the team did for a couple of month isn't exactly damning evidence. Obviously there was some issues initially with what the coaching staff wanted and what he was giving. That seems to have been addressed.
Frankly I think he's done an amazing job with the role that the coaching staff has given him - especially when you consider that Johansen was going to be the focus of the defense.
I have seen evidence of passion from Johansen and I've seen a desire to make a difference in close games. He has 26 ES goals and 2 OT goals. 15 of his goals game with the game tied, another six came with the team behind, and another 7 came with the team up by a single goal. 12 of his goals came in the 3rd period and another 2 in OT. Pretty good totals.
An interesting note is that he preformed better against the West than the East. His numbers against with West were really good, 24 points (11 goals) in 28 games and a +7. His goal total was in-line against the two conferences but his assist total went way down along with his +/-. His linemates might have struggled against the East. Shouldn't come as a surprise that Umberger was terrible against the East and quite respectable against the West. Jenner and Foligno were more neutral.
It will be interesting to seem how he comes into camp - assuming he does.
Frankly I think he's done an amazing job with the role that the coaching staff has given him - especially when you consider that Johansen was going to be the focus of the defense.
I have seen evidence of passion from Johansen and I've seen a desire to make a difference in close games. He has 26 ES goals and 2 OT goals. 15 of his goals game with the game tied, another six came with the team behind, and another 7 came with the team up by a single goal. 12 of his goals came in the 3rd period and another 2 in OT. Pretty good totals.
An interesting note is that he preformed better against the West than the East. His numbers against with West were really good, 24 points (11 goals) in 28 games and a +7. His goal total was in-line against the two conferences but his assist total went way down along with his +/-. His linemates might have struggled against the East. Shouldn't come as a surprise that Umberger was terrible against the East and quite respectable against the West. Jenner and Foligno were more neutral.
It will be interesting to seem how he comes into camp - assuming he does.
Can we remove the words "data" and "evidence" from the discussion about Johansen's passion or lack thereof? There obviously isn't going to be any data or evidence about Johansen's passion, or any other players passion, because it is not a quantifiable subject.
Whoa now!! Lets stay on topic and with popular opinion alright?
Some of you should go back and see how much of a fan of Johan you were about 10 months ago.
Johansen for Weber along with swapping our 2nd round picks the next 2 years. Why not?
CBJWerenski8
Rest in Peace Johnny
- Jun 13, 2009
- 43,701
- 26,750
Because you don't trade franchise centers nor do you trade franchise defenseman unless situations call for it (trade demand, rebuilding)
I think a lot of people thought like you thought.
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=68159743&postcount=300
I think a lot of people thought like you thought.
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=68159743&postcount=300
Yeah let's trade our 2 centers of the future, after searching for them for how many years?!
Johansen and Dubinsky were the pillars on offense while JMFJ, Murray and Bob were pretty stable on D. You could even throw in Wisnewski into the conversation as he played a pretty important role on the offensive side of things as well.
Sore Loser
Sorest of them all
No heart? No passion?
http://video.bluejackets.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=582232
Tell me that isn't a guy who wants to compete and win at the highest level.
http://video.bluejackets.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=582232
Tell me that isn't a guy who wants to compete and win at the highest level.
punk_o_holic
Registered User
Another example(maybe a bad one?) was during game 2. They were down 3-2 late in the 3rd on the PP. He made a diving pass to Johnson which lead to the tying goal. Then the celebration. He was pumped. Looks like heart/passion to me.
EspenK
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2011
- 15,842
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Loved this:
What the heck does he mean talking about Toews' money? Maybe IHZ can set him straight.
Double-Shift Lasse
Just post better
If we're using isolated instances to determine whether or not a player has heart/passion, then anyone who ever questioned Rick Nash's desire should reconsider any conclusions they've made.
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