RW Matvei Michkov - SKA-1946 St.Petersburg, MHL (2023 Draft) Part 2

[NatusVincere]

Let's have this sorted out correctly though. The fact that SKA are looking to move him because he refused to sign is neither official nor confirmed. All that has been said is that they are "looking at trade options" which means next to nothing. Furthermore, the center thing is irrelevant at this point. With the number of centers, they have some of them are bound to play wing. Khusnutdinov is a center as well, isn't he? It's about getting the best players on the ice.

SKA has 16 forwards over 20 who are clearly kinda too good for the VHL (plus Khusnutdinov who is U20 but firmly first team member at this point). Including Groshev, Bardakov, Morozov. Saying Michkov isn't taking away anyone's spot is just.. weird. I would understand insisting on him playing in the KHL if he was tearing VHL apart but he hasn't played a single game there.

Also, as someone who critiques "NA media narratives" so much (rightfully so most of the time) it's weird that you got yourself hooked on this "looking to trade Morozov because he refused extension" idea which is nothing more than a media narrative as well. Marchenko is in the exact same situation, why isn't he in the VHL then?

No, in my opinion he doesn't. SKA obviously has no more the quality of yesteryear. This is not the team around players like Kovalchuk, Shipachev, Gusev, Panarin, Dats... Vey or Johansson are just mediocre. No wonder Bragin adjusts his lines in almost every game. In my opinion, only Marchenko was really noticeable. The next Russian superstar in my eyes. Everything has been said about Morozov, I really don't see the quality of the other players you listed as that one should send Michkov into the VHL, which is much more intended for calibers like Groshev and Bardakov.

 

[SoundAndFury]

No, in my opinion he doesn't. SKA obviously has no more the quality of yesteryear. This is not the team around players like Kovalchuk, Shipachev, Gusev, Panarin, Dats... Vey or Johansson are just mediocre. No wonder Bragin adjusts his lines in almost every game. In my opinion, only Marchenko was really noticeable. The next Russian superstar in my eyes. Everything has been said about Morozov, I really don't see the quality of the other players you listed as that one should send Michkov into the VHL, which is much more intended for calibers like Groshev and Bardakov.

Half of the post is completely irrelevant to Michkov's situation, we aren't discussing how good or bad SKA is this year. What does Kovalchuk, Vey or Johansson have to do with Michkov?

Going to the actually relevant part, what is the evidence Groshev or Bardakov should be in the VHL over Michkov? Why? What has Michkov done so miraculously brilliant so that he can't be sent down? At the age 16? It's some kind of bizarro world. Everyone was advocating how Podkolzin (19 at the time) should be sent down last year. Now, people don't see the merit to send down 16 y.o. kid because he is above playing in the VHL somehow because it's for "calibers like Groshev and Bardakov"

 

[Atas2000]

My point exactly. Furthermore, if SKA really wanted to trade him he would be gone already, literally every team in the league wants the Russian top-6 center paid a reasonable salary (his first real pro contract). So all this dancing around, as you said, there are obviously issues within SKA with Morozov for whatever reason but I'm really not sure it's about his extension and I'm also not sure they are as dead set on trading him as implied.

It also doesn't quite make sense from the long-term perspective. What's the point of ruining the relationship with the guy who will be on the NT for years?

As I pointed out I think it's SKA's asking price that is the hindrance, not the other teams bids. Every team might want them, but not for an arm and a leg. There have been rumors for example SKA were interested in Voronkov. I doubt though AkBars would ever trade him.

"Dead set" can be pretty relative as we learn from the Tarasenko situation. I think it is a pretty similar one too. Both sides are unhappy with eachother and want to part ways, but it just does not click somewhere.

And realtionships get ruined all the time. Accidentially, accidentially on purpose, because someone did something stupid. It's part of life.

 

[kp61c]

Playing in the VHL is better than polishing the bench in the KHL. It's as simple as that. Send him down and see how he fares there. Maybe he isn't ready even for the VHL. He looks small as a bug after all.

 

[NatusVincere]

Half of the post is completely irrelevant to Michkov's situation, we aren't discussing how good or bad SKA is this year. What does Kovalchuk, Vey or Johansson have to do with Michkov?

Going to the actually relevant part, what is the evidence Groshev or Bardakov should be in the VHL over Michkov? Why? What has Michkov done so miraculously brilliant so that he can't be sent down? At the age 16? It's some kind of bizarro world. Everyone was advocating how Podkolzin (19 at the time) should be sent down last year. Now, people don't see the merit to send down 16 y.o. kid because he is above playing in the VHL somehow because it's for "calibers like Groshev and Bardakov"

And what do I have to do with those who complained about Podkolzin's situation? Half of your post is completely irrelevant to Michkov's situation, dont you think? You're talking about Players which with a lot of luck are going to be KHL regulars not to mention going to be Stars in the KHL. Michkov, as of now, was noticeably better in his game time as for example Chibrikov. What have the players you mentioned shown so far that you are so sure that they have more input than Michkov? I dont buy this an trust Bragin here.

 

[SoundAndFury]

You're talking about Players which with a lot of luck are going to be KHL regulars not to mention going to be Stars in the KHL. What have the players you mentioned shown so far that you are so sure that they have more input than Michkov? I dont buy this an trust Bragin here.

You do realize someone like Groshev was picked in the 3rd round of the NHL draft, right? And you think he needs "a lot of luck to become a KHL regular"? I mean... Ok then.

They have shown they are physically mature, have size, can play PK (especially Bardakov), both have been full time KHL players before arriving at SKA already... That's kind of a lot, don't you think? And with all due respect to your trust in Bragin, it might not even be his decision to play Michkov considering who is actually running things at SKA. And believe me, it wasn't Bragin who sent Morozov to the VHL either.

Like kp61c said, Michkov is still a tiny 16 y.o. kid trying to play against men. You still haven't given any actual arguments why should he only be playing in the KHL. Chibrikov thing was refuted before, like I said, SKA have 16 forwards over 20 and Chibrikov should absolutely be sent down as well.

 

[NatusVincere]

You do realize someone like Groshev was picked in the 3rd round of the NHL draft, right? And you think he needs "a lot of luck to become a KHL regular"? I mean... Ok then.

They have shown they are physically mature, have size, can play PK (especially Bardakov), both have been full time KHL players before arriving at SKA already... That's kind of a lot, don't you think? And with all due respect to your trust in Bragin, it might not even be his decision to play Michkov considering who is actually running things at SKA. And believe me, it wasn't Bragin who sent Morozov to the VHL either.

Like kp61c said, Michkov is still a tiny 16 y.o. kid trying to play against men. You still haven't given any actual arguments why should he only be playing in the KHL. Chibrikov think was refuted before, like I said, SKA have 16 forwards over 20 and Chibrikov should absolutely be sent down as well.

That he was a relatively high draft pick tells us exactly what? You pretend Bragin sent an Alex Ovechkin to the VHL so Michkov can stay in the KHL ... and yes, we don't know if it was Bragin's decision to let Michkov play in the KHL. But it was definitely Bragin's decision to use him on the first line or on the PP or in the last minutes of the first game when it was even and Michkov's defensive work led to the winning goal ... As I said, I think Bragin sees his talent and believes that going forward, with a little experience, he could become correspondingly valuable for SKA.

 

[SoundAndFury]

But it was definitely Bragin's decision to use him on the first line or on the PP or in the last minutes of the first game when it was even and Michkov's defensive work led to the winning goal ...

Yes, just like it was his decision to play him no more than 7 minutes in the 3 most recent games. The way tonight is going it will likely be the 4 most recent games.

 

[NatusVincere]

Yes, just like it was his decision to play him no more than 7 minutes in the 3 most recent games. The way tonight is going it will likely be the 4 most recent games.

Yes it was or is. And I have no problem with it at all. Why is it so hard to believe that Bragin, an experienced coach in working with teenager, decided that it would be better for Michkov and SKA's immediate future to stay in the KHL, train there with (future) stars and play against them, even if only to a limited extent, than that he gets a place in the VHL for nothing and plays against mainly lower-class opponents? The discussion about Podkolzin was also so ridiculous ... Bragin loved Podkolzin as a U20 coach. He took him to the U20 World Championship as a double underager. Incredible for him. But at SKA he wanted to prevent his career ... Podkolzin should have trusted him more and continued to work on his weaknesses. Btw, wouldn't Michkov earn less in the VHL than in the KHL? That would be no reason for the whole organization to use him in the K if he is not ready and they have to pay him more. But I'm not sure here.

 

[prongertheman9]

What is the level of hockey is the VHL? How big is the gap between the top VHL teams and the bottom feeders of the KHL?

 

[Atas2000]

What is the level of hockey is the VHL? How big is the gap between the top VHL teams and the bottom feeders of the KHL?

Not huge considering SKA's VHL team is one of the top teams. Those young players of SKA have proven they can hold their own and win games against weaker KHL teams.

 

[SoundAndFury]

What is the level of hockey is the VHL? How big is the gap between the top VHL teams and the bottom feeders of the KHL?

The gap between those you described is very little, 3-4 quality players. 2 of Yugra's (VHL champions last year) leaders are successfully playing in the top-6 of KHL teams this year. Having said that, it's a 27 team league, the gap between top and bottom teams is huge as well.

 

[Kiekura]

Loan him to Liiga

 

[prongertheman9]

Injured or healthy scratch?

 

[SoundAndFury]

Injured or healthy scratch?

Healthy scratch. He is 16, he isn't going to play every game in the KHL. It's a dubious strategy to play him there in the first place but we have talked all about it already.

 

[kp61c]

Bragin and Rotenberg will mess his development all right.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Bragin and Rotenberg will mess his development all right.

Bragin is on the hot seat, he won't play Michkov, the team still sucks though.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Bragin is on the hot seat, he won't play Michkov, the team still sucks though.

Well it would help if they decided who the best players are instead of rotating 1/3 of the roster while insisting to start the goalie who sabotages every game. Also calling up your #1 center instead of "looking at trade offers" would help as well but hey, what do I know.

 

[Atas2000]

Well it would help if they decided who the best players are instead of rotating 1/3 of the roster while insisting to start the goalie who sabotages every game. Also calling up your #1 center instead of "looking at trade offers" would help as well but hey, what do I know.

"Deciding who the best players are" would go against the team's general strategy. Won't happen. That rotation IS what SKA is now. Good or bad, it is what it is.

 

[SoundAndFury]

"Deciding who the best players are" would go against the team's general strategy. Won't happen. That rotation IS what SKA is now. Good or bad, it is what it is.

Oh I understand that perfectly well, I just feel it's kinda unfair to call out the team for underachieving under the circumstances.

 

[Kshahdoo]

At least Michkov gets his KHL salary...

 

[Atas2000]

Oh I understand that perfectly well, I just feel it's kinda unfair to call out the team for underachieving under the circumstances.

My point is they aren't underachieving. You can't give spots of league's superstars(that's what they had back in the day) to rookies and expect those rookies and 2nd line KHLers to perform just as well as the contending teams in the past.

Last season CSKA remained the only team with a chance to win it all in the West. This season CSKA got weaker too. It is what it is. They aren't really a match to the eastern powers now(even taking into account that AkBars and Avangard are all over the place to start the season).

 

[Caser]

 

[alko]

He doesnt see his teammates. What a selfish player...
Sarcasm on.

Nice goal anyway.

 

[Kshahdoo]

I'd personally look, how good he looks in Liiga or SHL. I doubt Bragin will let him play in the KHL this season. Right now Bragin doesn't care about developing Michkov, he only cares about holding his place. 2 min TOI in the last game...