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RW Matvei Michkov - HC Sochi, KHL (2023 Draft) - PART 3

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GlassesJacketShirt said:
McGilligan and Scouch love fast transition players, and their bias towards such players helps them overrate certain prospects.

The rest of the critiques I've read above are meh arguments to me (and Sam really needs to improve his prose), but I cannot deny that if I had one element I didn't love about Michkov, it's his current pace of play. Five on five, on smaller rinks against NHL calibre talent, I am not convinced he'd successfully transition to the NHL if he went next year, perhaps even the year after that.

Also why the three year wait is not a problem for me, he has otherworldly skills to work with so I'm not concerned in the long run.
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What “kind” of pace do you mean? Cause passing and/or shooting he thinks the game faster than everyone on the ice. And it's clearly noticeable in his previous games in the KHL. He sees space/lanes and plays passes no one else predicts. He clearly lacks explosiveness or doesn't skate fast enough. But he still weighs less than 70 kg. So that will improve.
 
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I looked at the list of players for 2023 draft from EP. Number of players: 181. And Michkov is the second lightest player in this draft. Michkov has very weak legs, Rotenberg also speaks about this. I think he has a lot of space for development here, he will definitely become more powerful and explosive.
 
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Kshahdoo said:
Hehe another concerned amateur scout. Of course it was written before his loan to Sochi...

sammcgilligan.substack.com

The Conundrum of Matvei Michkov

Making sense of the confusion that is the Russian prodigy.
sammcgilligan.substack.com sammcgilligan.substack.com
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"The tools being good but not generational start to turn into a larger problem when you examine the small area game, which is more important for projection as Michkov finds himself in these situations a lot. Like I said, he is best in open space"

That part is so strange to me... if anything, I find Michkov to be exceptional when he's stuck in between many players or the puck ends up between multiple players/sticks and he is able to often get his stick first on it and make excellent puck touches or even shots out of these situations which is really remarkable and quite unique.

Maybe I misunderstand what he means by "small area" but I absolutely disagree that Michkov is a player that needs "open space". If anything, from my observations, I think it's the complete opposite. Am I alone on this?

I respect anyone's opinion, especially if they watch the games and explain their thought process but this part in particular makes me scratch my head and makes me wonder what the hell is he, or am I, watching.
 
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NatusVincere said:
What “kind” of pace do you mean? Cause passing and/or shooting he thinks the game faster than everyone on the ice. And it's clearly noticeable in his previous games in the KHL. He sees space/lanes and plays passes no one else predicts. He clearly lacks explosiveness or doesn't skate fast enough. But he still weighs less than 70 kg. So that will improve.
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Speed of decisions and on transition. Some of it can be due to skating but I don't consider it a long term concern either. Bedard can do this as well sometimes and he'll also have to correct it, but Michkov is on another level when it comes to useless shots due to an inability to keep moving fast. I managed to catch the third period of today's game due to a shortened class, and this problem popped up on multiple occasions, notably on the 5-on-3, where Michkov took relatively low danger shots that were even blocked a few times because he took too long to make decisions with the puck. Other shots that went through were also pretty easy to toss aside. Too easy to read.

My main difference between myself and his detractors is I don't see any part of Michkov's game that concerns me as there is further development to be had, which is something every prospect needs anyway. He has the skill to create in tight quarters and is unparalleled as a prospect when it comes to finding the seams and empty spaces away from the puck.

I could understand someone placing him anywhere in top 4 because hockey is more complex than just shots and goals, and Fantilli and Carlsson absolutely have some tools neither Bedard or Michkov have, though at this point I would not put him below 2 anymore.

Putting him in the 11-20 range makes me wonder if some pundits, notably the internet types (who to their credit are more informative than the Buttons of the world), have pigeonholed themselves into a corner because they have a player type they adore (fast skaters with quick hands that transition the puck quickly) and their models do not work well with players who succeed differently. Michkov can score in places most players cannot and leans into that, and these pundits' models cannot differentiate this distinction, hence why I found the write-ups mostly "eh?" from my point of view.

Last minute edit: During my limited viewings of HC Sochi, I very much enjoyed watching this Sergei Popov character. I'm not saying he's a future KHL star or anything, but he seems to move quite well and make some good decisions with the puck, honestly his goal was perhaps the least exciting part of his play during the period. I'd keep him tied to Michkov for the rest of the season.
 
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GlassesJacketShirt said:
Speed of decisions and on transition. Some of it can be due to skating but I don't consider it a long term concern either. Bedard can do this as well sometimes and he'll also have to correct it, but Michkov is on another level when it comes to useless shots due to an inability to keep moving fast. I managed to catch the third period of today's game due to a shortened class, and this problem popped up on multiple occasions including the 5-on-3, where Michkov took relatively low danger shots that were even blocked a few times because it was too obvious what he was leading towards.

My main difference between myself and his detractors is I don't see any part of Michkov's game that concerns me as there is further development to be had, which is something every prospect needs anyway. I could understand someone placing him anywhere in top 4 because hockey is more complex than just shots and goals, and Fantilli and Carlsson absolutely have some tools neither Bedard or Michkov have, though at this point I would not put him below 2 anymore.

Putting him in the 11-20 range makes me wonder if some pundits, notably the internet types (who to their credit are more informative than the Buttons of the world), have pigeonholed themselves into a corner because they have a player type they adore (fast skaters with quick hands that transition the puck quickly) and their models do not work well with players who succeed differently. Michkov can score in places most players cannot and leans into that, and these pundits' models cannot differentiate this distinction, hence why I found the write-ups mostly "eh?" from my point of view.
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You just obviously don't watch Sochi a lot. Michkov played different in first games but it was hopeless, Sochi players can't pass. Like at all. So even on 5 vs 3 you can't expect any good combinations from them. They can pass relatively well while not under pressure but on PP all those perimeter passes don't work. So Michkov just shoots because otherwise there won't be even shots and one of Sochi players eventually turns the puck over. On ES it's even worse so Michkov again starts shooting at any chance from any position. With his shot there is always a chance he will score on one of those shots.
 
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rt said:
Will Scouch doesn’t like him. He’s got him ranked 19th and had this to say about it:







www.scouching.ca

Scouching's Preliminary 2023 NHL Draft Rankings

Here we are, all together again for the holiday season. I've been hard at work since late August watching and tracking hundreds of players around the world, and my first preliminary list is now ready...
www.scouching.ca

Scouch is one of the more “unique” video/social media/indie “scouts” out there. But he’s got a pretty big following and makes interesting content, regardless of how much stock you put into his opinions.
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Sale very low as well. This guy is gonna get hammered and for a reason

kp61c said:
wasn't he in love with Brad Lambert last year?
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One of the dumbest prospects I've ever seen. He does skate fast though.
 
Feel like he will drop much lower than anyone expected. Two reasons, one the Russian factor and current state of affairs. Two, he seems very far from NHL ready
 
Leafs87 said:
Feel like he will drop much lower than anyone expected. Two reasons, one the Russian factor and current state of affairs. Two, he seems very far from NHL ready
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First, he won't get to the NHL untill 2026 year so his NHL readiness right now just doesn't matter. Second, he's way more NHL ready than Fantilli or Karlsson. He thinks the game twice as fast as those kids...
 
Kshahdoo said:
You just obviously don't watch Sochi a lot. Michkov played different in first games but it was hopeless, Sochi players can't pass. Like at all. So even on 5 vs 3 you can't expect any good combinations from them. They can pass relatively well while not under pressure but on PP all those perimeter passes don't work. So Michkov just shoots because otherwise there won't be even shots and one of Sochi players eventually turns the puck over. On ES it's even worse so Michkov again starts shooting at any chance from any position. With his shot there is always a chance he will score on one of those shots.
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they went overboard with it. now he's selfish to the point ot it looking dumb. not a fan of him completely disregarding the teamates. they are not so hopeless al you llike to paint them here. after all, the second goal was scored when Michkov decided to make a pass.
 
Kshahdoo said:
You just obviously don't watch Sochi a lot. Michkov played different in first games but it was hopeless, Sochi players can't pass. Like at all. So even on 5 vs 3 you can't expect any good combinations from them. They can pass relatively well while not under pressure but on PP all those perimeter passes don't work. So Michkov just shoots because otherwise there won't be even shots and one of Sochi players eventually turns the puck over. On ES it's even worse so Michkov again starts shooting at any chance from any position. With his shot there is always a chance he will score on one of those shots.
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I think he sees it correctly. Especially in the first games in the VHL Michkov had weak shots from very bad positions while pressed by the opponents because he held the puck too long and didnt move fast enough.

But I think that was the transition from junior hockey. In junior hockey his lack of speed and physique didn't really matter, as he could usually get past opponents even under pressure. I think he quickly realized that it didn't work that way anymore and mostly shot instead.

He's adjusted here IMO. His shot selection and positioning is significantly better than at the beginning of the season. Almost no weak shots from bad positions as I see it. And with better linemates he could pass more.
 
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kp61c said:
they went overboard with it. now he's selfish to the point ot it looking dumb. not a fan of him completely disregarding the teamates. they are not so hopeless al you llike to paint them here. after all, the second goal was scored when Michkov decided to make a pass.
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It's all situational. Sochi had 5 on 3 for 2 mins in the previous game, not 30 s as vs Torpedo. The other PP team played all 2 min and did nothing. It was like I said, perimeter passes and stupid shots. Unlike Matvei's not a single of those shots was on goal, really. All of them went wide or were blocked. I mean you need to be kinda special to not get a single shot on goal while playing 5 vs 3...

Torpedo played really fast and did a lot of pressure on opponents, Michkov just didn't have a lot of time and opportunities to use his linemates. When he had chances he passed the puck as we saw on the 2nd goal.
 
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Michkov shoots a lot, but most of the time it's really dangerous shots. He threatens the goal from any position. In shitty Sochi, he averages 3.8 SOG. For example, Kaprizov in his last season in the KHL, having high-class teammates, made only 3.0 SOG. This comparison may not mean much, but Kaprizov was the best scorer in CSKA and the KHL and he had to throw a lot of shots.
 
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NatusVincere said:
I think he sees it correctly. Especially in the first games in the VHL Michkov had weak shots from very bad positions while pressed by the opponents because he held the puck too long and didnt move fast enough.

But I think that was the transition from junior hockey. In junior hockey his lack of speed and physique didn't really matter, as he could usually get past opponents even under pressure. I think he quickly realized that it didn't work that way anymore and mostly shot instead.

He's adjusted here IMO. His shot selection and positioning is significantly better than at the beginning of the season. Almost no weak shots from bad positions as I see it. And with better linemates he could pass more.
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Michkov had 24 shots in 8 previous games. So 3 shots/game is not that lot for him. He made like 5 or 6 great passes in the game vs SKA. Just Popov had 2 very good chances to score from Michkov's passes and failed.
 
Caser said:
And then there were situations with Gavrikov and Gusev, who on the opposite were kind of helped to be able to leave faster by the same SKA management, but who needs to remember those.
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That's the argument I myself used numerous times, especially in Podkolzin thread during a fairly unwarranted witch hunt there but even my opinion shifted over the last year or so mostly due to the way in which Marchenko and Morozov were handled. There was just no good explanation for flat out tanking the careers of two of the best Russian prospects.

And obviously purely political actions like Panarin or Fedotov stuff need no comment at all.
 
SoundAndFury said:
That's the argument I myself used numerous times, especially in Podkolzin thread during a fairly unwarranted witch hunt there but even my opinion shifted over the last year or so mostly due to the way in which Marchenko and Morozov were handled. There was just no good explanation for flat out tanking the careers of two of the best Russian prospects.

And obviously purely political actions like Panarin or Fedotov stuff need no comment at all.
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Marchenko and Morozov were prohibited to get out of Russia and come to NA?
 
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Kshahdoo said:
Sochi is probably the only hockey team in the world where their goalie can pass better than any of their defensemen. Not that the goalie is execptionally good on passing it's just defensemen are terrible.
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when your Grandpa is Vladislav Tretiak, you should know how to do everything as a goaltender: passing included.
 
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