RW Matvei Michkov - HC Sochi, KHL (2023 Draft) - PART 3

[ViD]

I didn’t even realize Sochi was that bad. Even Kunlun has twice more points

 

[wetcoast]

I don't understand it like at all. I stated that Russian kids were playing a higher level hockey than WJC in Russian professional leagues. You answered that the best vs best hockey was good for anybody. I answered that it's not Olympics or WCH but WJC, it couldn't be better than professional hockey, even VHL let alone KHL. You didn't agree with me, and here it became obvious you were wrong. So you still don't agree with this?

Below is how it played out as your comment and mine weren't just about Michov bot other potential Russian WJC participants.

What experience for players? They would have been training in the camp for about a month and then had to spend another 2 weeks at the tournament instead of playing professional hockey. I'm pretty sure they will be better without this "experience"...

A best on best experience is good for all players involved.

I stand by that statement I mean hopefully Michov gets some serious MPG with Sochi but his playing experience so far this year wouldn't have been on par with a best on best WJC.

 

[wetcoast]

That's not an argument. It's an opinion. Plus, the WJC is only best on best during lockout years.

Regardless, what specifically makes a "best on best" beneficial for everybody involved?
How did, say, Peter Forsberg benefit from scoring 31 points at '93 WJC, way, way, below his talent level? Seems like a waste of time from a developmental standpoint.

Developmentally WJC was nothing compared to the 'non-best on best' 1994 olympics for Forsberg; certainly in terms of higher level of play and intensity vs men. Not destroying teenagers.

It's pretty simple I'd rather see how a player stacks up in a best on best tournament rather than in a lower level of overall competition against ones peers.

Also the WJC is much more a best on best (in real time) than the other tournaments that Kshadoo mentioned so perhaps quote him instead?

WJC is not best-on-best anymore.

It simply still is especially compared to the WC and Olympics like was suggested but one can understand the sour grapes.....

 

[Fantomas]

It simply still is especially compared to the WC and Olympics like was suggested but one can understand the sour grapes.....

It's just a statement of fact.

 

[Hanji]

It's pretty simple I'd rather see how a player stacks up in a best on best tournament rather than in a lower level of overall competition against ones peers.

Also the WJC is much more a best on best (in real time) than the other tournaments that Kshadoo mentioned so perhaps quote him instead?

You're not saying why it's a better experience for players. You're just stating you like it because it's a good measuring stick vs one's high level teenage peers. Err.. ok.

But what if playing against one's high level peers at the WJC is way, way below one's talent level? Would not playing against non-best on best men at the WC be a significanly better experience?

 

[wetcoast]

You're not saying why it's a better experience for players. You're just stating you like it because it's a good measuring stick vs one's high level teenage peers. Err.. ok.

The best players like to be challenged and welcome the opportunity to show they are the best, that's why NHLers wanted to go to the Olympics.

But what if playing against one's high level peers in a best v best is way, way below one's talent level? Would not playing against non-best on best men at the WC be a significanly better experience?

Once again the entire distraction started about a discussion for the entire team not just a single player and it's an answer we will never know and when Michov actually gets some decent time under his belt we might have a better indication.

It's just a statement of fact.

As was mine, the WJC is a best on best of eligible nations, much more so than the WC and Olympics so why be selective and inconsistent?

 

[Hanji]

The best players like to be challenged and welcome the opportunity to show they are the best, that's why NHLers wanted to go to the Olympics.

Once again the entire distraction started about a discussion for the entire team not just a single player and it's an answer we will never know and when Michov actually gets some decent time under his belt we might have a better indication.


As was mine, the WJC is a best on best of eligible nations, much more so than the WC and Olympics so why be selective and inconsistent?

He was talking about the Russian kids playing professional hockey; which make up the majority of team Russia.

You specifically stated "A best on best experience is good for all players involved."
That's not neccessarilty true. A tournament being best on best doesn't innately make it a better expierence for all involved, nor good for development. It's all relative and situational for players involved - especially pro players used to higher level of play than the WJC.

 

[wetcoast]

He was talking about the Russian kids playing professional hockey; which make up the majority of team Russia.

You specifically stated "A best on best experience is good for all players involved."
That's not neccessarilty true. A tournament being best on best doesn't innately make it a better expierence for all involved, nor good for development. It's all relative and situational for players involved - especially pro players used to higher level of play than the WJC.

We are going to agree to disagree on this one as would most people.

There is a reason most countries take their best players to these types of tournaments, ie to challenge them and make them better.

Also most of the players who would have been on a Russian WJC team this year would have seen better situations, ie more MPG to gauge and challenge themselves than in the KHL or even in the VHL.

 

[Hanji]

We are going to agree to disagree on this one as would most people.

There is a reason most countries take their best players to these types of tournaments, ie to challenge them and make them better.

Also most of the players who would have been on a Russian WJC team this year would have seen better situations, ie more MPG to gauge and challenge themselves than in the KHL or even in the VHL.

Countries take their best because they want to win. If the WJC innately made players better, NHL teams would let all their U20 regulars go. They don't because the WJC is beneath them and the NHL experience is more valuable to them and their team.

Like already mentioned, players also have to take a huge amount of time off just to participate in the small handful of WJC games. Training camp, travel, etc. The opportunity cost of doing such may not be worth it if you're regularly playing at a higher level than WJC.

But yeah, agree, each to their own.

 

[Czechboy]

We are going to agree to disagree on this one as would most people.

There is a reason most countries take their best players to these types of tournaments, ie to challenge them and make them better.

Also most of the players who would have been on a Russian WJC team this year would have seen better situations, ie more MPG to gauge and challenge themselves than in the KHL or even in the VHL.

I think you're wrong. There is no way the Russians would've even sent Michkov this year.. he's above it and would be better off spending those 3 weeks in the KHL playing for Sochi. It's a pro league for pros and that is what Michikov is.

Russians never sent their top Russians to this and always left their best at home in the KHL because it's a meaningless tournament with no developmental opportunity. It's a kids tournamnet and not for men.

Am I doing this right?

 

[wetcoast]

I think you're wrong. There is no way the Russians would've even sent Michkov this year.. he's above it and would be better off spending those 3 weeks in the KHL playing for Sochi. It's a pro league for pros and that is what Michikov is.

Russians never sent their top Russians to this and always left their best at home in the KHL because it's a meaningless tournament with no developmental opportunity. It's a kids tournamnet and not for men.

Am I doing this right?

Ask the other guys.

"eligible nations" doing the heavy lifting here.

It is what it is, although I don't have any idea on what you are saying here.

 

[Kshahdoo]

During the yesterday's broadcast a Sochi journalist girl said she's taller than Michkov and she's 1.73 (5'8)...

 

[Zine]

Huh? In what parallel universe is the U20 a best on best? In most years its missing top players... and this year a perennial medal contender in Russia with a potential generational talent.

How many people would consider the World Cup a best on best if Canada was prohibited from fielding McDavid, MacKinnon and Makar? The US Matthews and Fox? Russia Ovechkin, etc.? That's the equvalent of a typical u20 but transposed to the senior level.

Nobody would consider it legit. Exactly.

 

[NatusVincere]

I think you're wrong. There is no way the Russians would've even sent Michkov this year.. he's above it and would be better off spending those 3 weeks in the KHL playing for Sochi. It's a pro league for pros and that is what Michikov is.

Russians never sent their top Russians to this and always left their best at home in the KHL because it's a meaningless tournament with no developmental opportunity. It's a kids tournamnet and not for men.

Am I doing this right?

Unfortunately not. Of course, Russia would nominate their best U20 talent outside of the NHL. And Michkov would be 100% playing the U20, just like Kaprizov was there back then. But of course that has absolutely nothing to do with best on best... funny that this conversation is being held after a 100-0 win against Luxembourg and not after the clear defeat against the Czech Republic.

 

[Czechboy]

Unfortunately not. Of course, Russia would nominate their best U20 talent outside of the NHL. And Michkov would be 100% playing the U20, just like Kaprizov was there back then. But of course that has absolutely nothing to do with best on best... funny that this conversation is being held after a 100-0 win against Luxembourg and not after the clear defeat against the Czech Republic.

You should look at Russian's last few games against the Czechs at this tourney. Might surprise you.

 

[Kshahdoo]

I personally am way more upset because of what a shity team Sochi is than us not playing at the WJC.

The team basically has one KHL level line. That line can't still score but they can at least control the puck, pass and create scoring chances. Other players... Well, some of them could probably be 4th liners on a average KHL team but that's at the very best. And Michkov has to carry these suckers.

They can move him to the 1st line but the problem is the RW on that line is Zavgorodny, Sochi's top point producer. Maybe him or Michkov can play LW but I'm not sure about this. They could actually do some damage together. Zavgorodny is pretty creative, just doesn't have good enough shot. And Michkov does.

 

[Zine]

I personally am way more upset because of what a shity team Sochi is than us not playing at the WJC.

The team basically has one KHL level line. That line can't still score but they can at least control the puck, pass and create scoring chances. Other players... Well, some of them could probably be 4th liners on a average KHL team but that's at the very best. And Michkov has to carry these suckers.

They can move him to the 1st line but the problem is the RW on that line is Zavgorodny, Sochi's top point producer. Maybe him or Michkov can play LW but I'm not sure about this. They could actually do some damage together. Zavgorodny is pretty creative, just don't have good enough shot. And Michkov does.

It’s good for Michkov in the long run though.

As long as he’s getting quality ice time against solid adult competition. is making plays and driving some offense (even though he has no help whatsoever), all is good.
Adversity is a fantastic teacher. Who cares about stats.

I’d rather him ‘struggle’ in Sochi than steamroll through a bunch of hapless German and Austrian teenagers at the u20. That benefits nobody.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I'm enjoying watching the Western media fall in and out of love for the various players they hope will unseat Michkov in the draft. Right now Fantilli, eventually Carlsson.

No one hopes Michkov will be unseated in the draft.. I think if you asked the entire media and NHL, that they would all hope the geopolitical situation would come to a peaceful end and Russia would be permitted back into best on best tournaments, and remove another piece of uncertainty around Michkov.

Truth of the matter is.. with the Ukraine war and Michkov's decision to sign a long term deal in the KHL will hurt his draft stock. One of those decisions was Matvei's, the other isn't.

 

[Fantomas]

No one hopes Michkov will be unseated in the draft.. I think if you asked the entire media and NHL, that they would all hope the geopolitical situation would come to a peaceful end and Russia would be permitted back into best on best tournaments, and remove another piece of uncertainty around Michkov.

doubt

 

[LetsGoFlyers12]

Does anyone have the best draft year KHL seasons? I know Kaprizov, Tarasenko, Nichushkin and Panarin all fared well, but I'd love to see a more comprehensive rundown

 

[kp61c]

I didn’t even realize Sochi was that bad. Even Kunlun has twice more points

I was shocked to find ротан's son plays for Sochi. i thought he retired already. that's just absurd. no wonder the team is a hot garbage.

 

[olgerd]

Does anyone have the best draft year KHL seasons? I know Kaprizov, Tarasenko, Nichushkin and Panarin all fared well, but I'd love to see a more comprehensive rundown

	G​	PTS​	PPG​
Tarasenko	42​	24 (13+11)	0.571
Ovechkin	53​	24 (13+11)	0.453
Malkin	34​	12 (3+9)	0.353
Panarin	20​	9 (1+8)	0.450
Kaprizov	31​	8 (4+4)	0.258
Kuznetsov	35​	8 (2+6)	0.229
Kucherov	9​	2 (0+2)	0.222
Michkov	3 (max 28)​	1 (1+0)

 

[NatusVincere]

No one hopes Michkov will be unseated in the draft.. I think if you asked the entire media and NHL, that they would all hope the geopolitical situation would come to a peaceful end and Russia would be permitted back into best on best tournaments, and remove another piece of uncertainty around Michkov.

Truth of the matter is.. with the Ukraine war and Michkov's decision to sign a long term deal in the KHL will hurt his draft stock. One of those decisions was Matvei's, the other isn't.

What Michkov did and the only thing he had control over was securing his and his parents' future. Everything happened besides that, ie banning Russian kids, KIDS who were even not old enough to vote…are in the hands of the IIHF and the NHL. So if they want to all the Russian kids and grown player will participate again or never stop (talking about the NHL). Let's not pretend that there are unforeseeable risks here.

But living in the civilised west (how I learned this year) middle in Europe I’m surprised how the IIHF and Hockey Canada are managing this little story what happened in London or back in 2003 (it’s seems not all of the west is equal civilised). So we never know.

I was shocked to find ротан's son plays for Sochi. i thought he retired already. that's just absurd. no wonder the team is a hot garbage.

Or Tretiak…

 

[kp61c]

Or Tretiak…

the donut still plays? jesus...

 

[olgerd]

Scored his second goal for Sochi.