RW Matvei Michkov (2023, 7th, PHI) Part 4

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Jack Eichel
Jack Hughes
Beniers
Svechnikov
Are examples who had average to okay WJC/WC’s.

People love to overreact to short tournaments.

Then you have players like Pulju, Laine, Slafskovsky European prospects who feasted in tourneys like that.
Again people love to overvalue short tournaments like that.

Sure Michkov had the best KHL season by draft prospect but what’s the competition? How many legit franchise prospects have KHL developed (draft day)?
Zero?
The previous record was held by Tarasenko, sure in his prime a great player but never a true franchise tier player. Never at the Rantanen/Kucherov/Marner/Pasta tier for wingers in this league.

& Michkovs skating hasn’t developed as much as I’d hoped, he lacks separation speed. In Europe it doesn’t stop you from scoring but it would at the NHL level. His defensive game needs a lot of work as well.
So he’s a smaller player who’s not even good defensively and who lacks separation speed, from that it’s a long way to becoming Kucherov at the NHL level. Still would have easily taken him at 4 but not in the top3.

Fantilli on the other hand put up Eichel like numbers in the NCAA, his physical tools are about as good as you could hope from a draft prospect, his skating is elite, he has a shot that will constantly make him a threat to score.
People question his IQ but by reading and listening him his an absolute pro and Bedard like driven to become the best player possible.
The old saying is hard work beats talent, but when talent has the hard work mentality it’s damm tough to beat.


Fact is franchise C’s mean more to winning than franchise W’s.
Let’s agree that Kucherov is the best winger in the game and I’d take McDavid/Drai/Mackinnon types always 1st when building a team.

I think when looking at what Michkov has accomplished within Russia through the various leagues, you have to look at it in terms of how impressive it is in comparison to other Russians through the years.

There are various things you can look at, but the reality is that Michkov is the most impressive pre-draft prospect since Ovechkin. His pedigree is better than all of them, whether it's Tarasenko, Kuznetsov, Kucherov, Kaprizov, Buchnevich, and basically anyone else you want to list. You can throw in guys like Cherepanov who sadly passed and he's better than him at the same age. Throw in all the various busts like Kravtsov and Rubtsov and whoever else. If you want to look into how he compared to Svechnikov at similar ages before Svechnikov left to NA, Michkov was more impressive.

So sure, you can pick apart this or that. I think when you look at the full picture, this guy has put up ridiculous numbers that essentially have never happened in the modern era of Russian hockey with the MHL, VHL, and KHL. And I agree there are things in his skillset that aren't 100% desirable. He's small, he's not the fastest skater, his compete isn't great, he's a winger not a center. At the same time, these are a lot the same types of things you could throw at Bedard. Maybe Bedard is a little better in some of these areas, which is why he's a slightly better prospect at this point, but there are some players who don't leave much room for doubt that they will be stars, regardless of which level they take a step up to, because they have truly great ability in certain areas and a long history of production. With Michkov, you have a guy who has always had some of these flaws, and has dominated the competition along the way, despite those flaws. At a certain point, you gotta look past the flaws and just credit the genius in it and that he is able to do this despite some flaws.

With players like Fantilli and Carlsson, it's a different type of picture. These dudes were not prodigies from when they were 14 or 15, like Michkov and Bedard. They have been very good prospects for a few years, but they have more ordinary and conventional skillsets. Their league production has been good or very good. Maybe they also have the occasional weak season or tournament on their resume that doesn't look the greatest. It's true that no one from this draft is a flawless player, but those players don't really exist. There have been like 3 or 4 maybe through history you could say that applied to, and they were all clearly generational players.

I think though when you compare the players past Bedard and Michkov, you are comparing a different category of hockey player. Bedard and Michkov have nearly flawless resumes in dominating whatever competition you put in front of them since they were like 14 years old. They both have attributes that could very well carry them to being among the top 5-10 players in the world eventually. It's not a guarantee that these two are going to be the two best eventually, but with the information we have at this point, I can't see the rational argument that they aren't the two best prospects. I think it's looking for something that's not there to try to make someone else top 2 in the 2023 draft.

 

[Fantomas]

Yakupov did not interview well, so much so that teams also had him on their do not draft lists.

First of all, there are no reports stating that Michkov "did not interview well." He interviewed very well, so well that the Ducks reportedly entertained taking him. He interviewed well with the Flyers who then took him. He may well declined to interview with some clubs, although those reports are murky.

Second of all, Yakupov went first overall. How badly could he have interviewed?

I'm still waiting on someone to give me concrete similarities between Yakupov and Michkov.

But I'll save you the trouble: there are none. Very different players and different people. Yakupov kind of struck me as a very nice guy who isn't very bright, with a lot of skill but tunnel vision. Michkov is the polar opposite: fiery, intense, very intelligent and the best vision in the draft.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Co-director of amateur scouting Nick Bobrov when asked why the Habs opted to draft Reinbacher over Michkov : "We're building a culture; we want certain things that permeate that culture as we keep building this. We felt that this player embodies the type of culture that Jeff, Kent, Marty and the coaching staff are trying to build, and that was not a trivial matter to us. So, culture was an important word."

Lapointe and Bobrov: Culture an important factor at this year's Draft | Montréal Canadiens

The Habs' lead scouts reflected on a busy two days in Tennessee

www.nhl.com

Washington Capitals scout Andrei Nikolishin concerning Matvei Michkov:
"To me, he's first or second in skill [in the draft]. But when it comes to character, to attitude to his teammates, coaching staff, management, fans - the man has now fallen very low in the eyes of all the scouts, all the managers. It has nothing to do with the tragedy. Information about the player is collected - how he talks to his partners, how he talks to the coaches, how he behaves off the ice. And that's where it gets rough for Matvey. There are a lot of nuances that could be revealed. I can show you the correspondence when I wanted to meet with him and, as a scout, ask him some questions and do an interview, how he responds. I've never seen such disrespect in my life for other people"

Blue Jackets GM Jarmo Kekäläinen when asked if they met with Michkov or whether were planning on having a meeting with him before the draft, his response? : a resounding no


Anonymous SKA Petersburg teammate: "He doesn't listen to anything the veterans tell him, he doesn't listen to the coaches, he doesn't hesitate to laugh at them and send them away. He only does what he wants. We really tried to give him a chance and understand him, but we realized he's just a piece of shit."

Sharks GM Mark Grier why he didn't choose Michkov with the 4th pick :


You can choose to believe what you want but by connecting the dots, it's clear his attitude and major character problems are the reasons why he fell to #7, and it had little to do with his 2026 contract in Russia.

All you've provided is an anonymous teammate and then that one scout.

Your framing of why Columbus didn't interview him, and why San Jose and Montreal didn't pick him is your own speculation. They didn't state what you speculate.

 

[Nabrules]

Co-director of amateur scouting Nick Bobrov when asked why the Habs opted to draft Reinbacher over Michkov : "We're building a culture; we want certain things that permeate that culture as we keep building this. We felt that this player embodies the type of culture that Jeff, Kent, Marty and the coaching staff are trying to build, and that was not a trivial matter to us. So, culture was an important word."

Lapointe and Bobrov: Culture an important factor at this year's Draft | Montréal Canadiens

The Habs' lead scouts reflected on a busy two days in Tennessee

www.nhl.com

Washington Capitals scout Andrei Nikolishin concerning Matvei Michkov:
"To me, he's first or second in skill [in the draft]. But when it comes to character, to attitude to his teammates, coaching staff, management, fans - the man has now fallen very low in the eyes of all the scouts, all the managers. It has nothing to do with the tragedy. Information about the player is collected - how he talks to his partners, how he talks to the coaches, how he behaves off the ice. And that's where it gets rough for Matvey. There are a lot of nuances that could be revealed. I can show you the correspondence when I wanted to meet with him and, as a scout, ask him some questions and do an interview, how he responds. I've never seen such disrespect in my life for other people"

Blue Jackets GM Jarmo Kekäläinen when asked if they met with Michkov or whether were planning on having a meeting with him before the draft, his response? : a resounding no


Anonymous SKA Petersburg teammate: "He doesn't listen to anything the veterans tell him, he doesn't listen to the coaches, he doesn't hesitate to laugh at them and send them away. He only does what he wants. We really tried to give him a chance and understand him, but we realized he's just a piece of shit."

Sharks GM Mark Grier why he didn't choose Michkov with the 4th pick :


You can choose to believe what you want but by connecting the dots, it's clear his attitude and major character problems are the reasons why he fell to #7, and it had little to do with his 2026 contract in Russia.

I have a hard time believing this after teams picked LM and Mitchell Miller. Teams knew Michkov wanted to go to a big American market and if he didn’t, that could’ve caused problems with him eventually coming over. Let’s see how things play out no need to speculate on character issues that aren’t anything but rumours.

also FYI, superstar prospects like Michkov, Hughes, Eichel, tend to be arrogant and cocky. They’ve been the best player in their age groups for years and years.

 

[Frank Drebin]

First of all, there are no reports stating that Michkov "did not interview well." He interviewed very well, so well that the Ducks reportedly entertained taking him. He interviewed well with the Flyers who then took him. He may well declined to interview with some clubs, although those reports are murky.

Second of all, Yakupov went first overall. How badly could he have interviewed?

I'm still waiting on someone to give me concrete similarities between Yakupov and Mickov.

But I'll save you the trouble: there are none. Very different players and different people.

Yakupov interviewed so badly that at least one of the teams in the top 5 had the consensus number 1 pick on their do not draft list. He only went number one because the oilers owner intervened and overruled his scouts, who wanted Murray.

As for michkov, no concrete reports of bag interviews, but certainly smoke about bad references from former coaches and players.

All will come out in the future, and if the talent is as great as we say it is, it can overcome the personality issues, as will maturity

 

[Redpath]

I would not put it past some hockey executives to frame an interview with Michkov as "not going well" in order to further justify to themselves passing on the Russian with a 3 year KHL contract

 

[Fantomas]

I would not put it past some hockey executives to frame an interview with Michkov as "not going well" in order to further justify to themselves passing on the Russian with a 3 year KHL contracts

I would take this a step further. It could be a way of justifying why they didn't take a player who maybe wasn't all that interested to play for them (looking at you Columbus, San Jose, Montreal and Arizona).

 

[Nabrules]

I honestly knew this would happen when Michkov was drafted by whichever team. A bunch of reports and random accusations would begin to be made about how he’s an awful person, he doesn’t want to play in the nhl ect ect.

Can we just stop and judge him based on his actual hockey play and see how things play out?

 

[Frank Drebin]

I honestly knew this would happen when Michkov was drafted by whichever team. A bunch of reports and random accusations would begin to be made about how he’s an awful person, he doesn’t want to play in the nhl ect ect.

Can we just stop and judge him based on his actual hockey play and see how things play out?

Of course we can and ultimately that's all that matters.

Right now there's is just a lot of speculation on how a talent like that could fall to 7.

 

[Nabrules]

All you've provided is an anonymous teammate and then that one scout.

Your framing of why Columbus didn't interview him, and why San Jose and Montreal didn't pick him is your own speculation. They didn't state what you speculate.

Also the same Washington capitals who were devastated to lose michkov on draft day are now saying this?? Their gm flat out told Friedman on national tv after their 8th pick that they tried to move up to get michkov but couldn’t.

 

[Kshahdoo]

You can say that about all the players draft before Michkov. If Reinbacher/Simashev develops into a stud #1 defenseman, Montreal and Arizona won't care if Michkov scores a bunch of points.

A bunch of points is like 120+?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I would not put it past some hockey executives to frame an interview with Michkov as "not going well" in order to further justify to themselves passing on the Russian with a 3 year KHL contract

Same thing many fans are doing. They are rationalizing that Michkov is some bad guy to justify what they know is coming when he inevitably outproduces the players their teams picked over the course of their NHL careers.

They aren't even going the angle of trying to criticize his play because he leaves essentially nothing to criticize there, so it's straight to the conspiracies that he's a bad locker room guy.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

I think when looking at what Michkov has accomplished within Russia through the various leagues, you have to look at it in terms of how impressive it is in comparison to other Russians through the years.

There are various things you can look at, but the reality is that Michkov is the most impressive pre-draft prospect since Ovechkin. His pedigree is better than all of them, whether it's Tarasenko, Kuznetsov, Kucherov, Kaprizov, Buchnevich, and basically anyone else you want to list. You can throw in guys like Cherepanov who sadly passed and he's better than him at the same age. Throw in all the various busts like Kravtsov and Rubtsov and whoever else. If you want to look into how he compared to Svechnikov at similar ages before Svechnikov left to NA, Michkov was more impressive.

So sure, you can pick apart this or that. I think when you look at the full picture, this guy has put up ridiculous numbers that essentially have never happened in the modern era of Russian hockey with the MHL, VHL, and KHL. And I agree there are things in his skillset that aren't 100% desirable. He's small, he's not the fastest skater, his compete isn't great, he's a winger not a center. At the same time, these are a lot the same types of things you could throw at Bedard. Maybe Bedard is a little better in some of these areas, which is why he's a slightly better prospect at this point, but there are some players who don't leave much room for doubt that they will be stars, regardless of which level they take a step up to, because they have truly great ability in certain areas and a long history of production. With Michkov, you have a guy who has always had some of these flaws, and has dominated the competition along the way, despite those flaws. At a certain point, you gotta look past the flaws and just credit the genius in it and that he is able to do this despite some flaws.

With players like Fantilli and Carlsson, it's a different type of picture. These dudes were not prodigies from when they were 14 or 15, like Michkov and Bedard. They have been very good prospects for a few years, but they have more ordinary and conventional skillsets. Their league production has been good or very good. Maybe they also have the occasional weak season or tournament on their resume that doesn't look the greatest. It's true that no one from this draft is a flawless player, but those players don't really exist. There have been like 3 or 4 maybe through history you could say that applied to, and they were all clearly generational players.

I think though when you compare the players past Bedard and Michkov, you are comparing a different category of hockey player. Bedard and Michkov have nearly flawless resumes in dominating whatever competition you put in front of them since they were like 14 years old. They both have attributes that could very well carry them to being among the top 5-10 players in the world eventually. It's not a guarantee that these two are going to be the two best eventually, but with the information we have at this point, I can't see the rational argument that they aren't the two best prospects. I think it's looking for something that's not there to try to make someone else top 2 in the 2023 draft.

It is difficult to make an honest comparison between Michkov's season and past seasons from ex KHLers who came to the NHL. He was playing on a terrible team that gave him far more opportunity than is typically given to 17/18 year olds and the KHL is the weakest it has been in decades due to the exodus of players to other European pro leagues due to the war.

I am not saying that this should necessarily tarnish his achievements but it is important to point this out because if he had stayed with SKA nobody would be talking about his "historic" production.

 

[Fatass]

I understand the first four teams passing on Michkov. There were four super star centres available. But the Habs at 5 and Coyotes at 6 are going to regret those picks.

 

[SkeeterPumpkinEater]

He's going to Vancouver I heard

 

[NitroF]

Do we know if he will play for SKA or Sochi next year?

 

[Garl]

Do we know if he will play for SKA or Sochi next year?

Nobody knows that. If he makes SKA he will play there, if not, then Sochi or Vityaz for example

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

It is difficult to make an honest comparison between Michkov's season and past seasons from ex KHLers who came to the NHL. He was playing on a terrible team that gave him far more opportunity than is typically given to 17/18 year olds and the KHL is the weakest it has been in decades due to the exodus of players to other European pro leagues due to the war.

I am not saying that this should necessarily tarnish his achievements but it is important to point this out because if he had stayed with SKA nobody would be talking about his "historic" production.

You do realize that most of the guys I named weren't playing for SKA or CSKA at those ages and were playing either for bad teams or non-huge teams without enormous resources that were a level below SKA or CSKA?

 

[Fantomas]

You do realize that most of the guys I named weren't playing for SKA or CSKA at those ages and were playing either for bad teams or non-huge teams without enormous resources that were a level below SKA or CSKA?

There's also boatloads of other evidence of Michkov's historic production at the international level, which show that the KHL numbers aren't a fluke.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

You do realize that most of the guys I named weren't playing for SKA or CSKA at those ages and were playing either for bad teams or non-huge teams without enormous resources that were a level below SKA or CSKA?

There is some truth to that but that doesn't address the sad state of the KHL this season after many top imports left Russia.

I am not denying that the kid is likely a 1 OA in many drafts just applying a little context as I am not sold that he is a special talent relative to most players taken at 1 OA. I personally see a small Panarin/Tarasenko hybrid, small and elusive like Panarin but thicker like Tarasenko and more of a shooter like Tarasenko.

I do not consider him to be in the same tier as Bedard as some are claiming but I am not denying that he has the potential to be great.

 

[NatusVincere]

It is difficult to make an honest comparison between Michkov's season and past seasons from ex KHLers who came to the NHL. He was playing on a terrible team that gave him far more opportunity than is typically given to 17/18 year olds and the KHL is the weakest it has been in decades due to the exodus of players to other European pro leagues due to the war.

I am not saying that this should necessarily tarnish his achievements but it is important to point this out because if he had stayed with SKA nobody would be talking about his "historic" production.

But it’s not as difficult to make a comparison with former 1st rounders of the last years, right? #19 OA in 2020 Svechkov (4 in 27), #24 OA in 2022 Yurov (12 in 59) and #20 in 2022 Miro (4 in 23) had combined 20 points (in 109 games) in the same weak KHL this very same season… Michkov outscored 3 1st rounders and Russias greatest talents (besides Buchelnikov) combined with ease…

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

But it’s not as difficult to make a comparison with former 1st rounders of the last years, right? #19 OA in 2020 Svechkov (4 in 27), #24 OA in 2022 Yurov (12 in 59) and #20 in 2022 Miro (4 in 23) had combined 20 points (in 109 games) in the same weak KHL this very same season… Michkov outscored 3 1st rounders and Russias greatest talents (besides Buchelnikov) combined with ease…

Nobody is making a claim that Yurov or Svechkov are in the same tier as Michkov and Yurov played on a good team, even Svechkov's team was much better than the tire fire in Sochi. The fact that SKA loaned Michkov to a competitor certainly stinks of corruption/collusion and the optics are that Michkov was given unprecedented leverage over a puppet KHL team which had to play into the equation that made NHL teams nervous.

Anyways, I don't want to sound like I am a Michkov hater because I truly believe that he is a great talent, I am just going to wait for him to prove it in the NHL or even prove it with SKA before feeling really good about it. We aren't going to get to see him in international tournaments like most top prospects so he will need to prove it as a pro and I am certainly not betting against it.

 

[Kiirin]

All you've provided is an anonymous teammate and then that one scout.

Your framing of why Columbus didn't interview him, and why San Jose and Montreal didn't pick him is your own speculation. They didn't state what you speculate.

Why would Nick Bobrov speak about culture building when implicitly asked to explain their decision of Reinbacher over Michkov? Grier, with all that elite talent in the world not liking some "aspects" of him to the point of not drafting the guy? Teams have way more pieces of information, intel, and footage than we do so they definitely know something we don't.

Also the same Washington capitals who were devastated to lose michkov on draft day are now saying this?? Their gm flat out told Friedman on national tv after their 8th pick that they tried to move up to get michkov but couldn’t.

No confirmation the Capitals were moving up to take Michkov. Solely fans speculations.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

Nobody is making a claim that Yurov or Svechkov are in the same tier as Michkov and Yurov played on a good team, even Svechkov's team was much better than the tire fire in Sochi. The fact that SKA loaned Michkov to a competitor certainly stinks of corruption/collusion and the optics are that Michkov was given unprecedented leverage over a puppet KHL team which had to play into the equation that made NHL teams nervous.

Anyways, I don't want to sound like I am a Michkov hater because I truly believe that he is a great talent, I am just going to wait for him to prove it in the NHL or even prove it with SKA before feeling really good about it. We aren't going to get to see him in international tournaments like most top prospects so he will need to prove it as a pro and I am certainly not betting against it.

Wtf? You guys realize Europe works differently than what you're used to in NA, right? Loans are common here. In many sports.

 

[ijuka]

The fact that SKA loaned Michkov to a competitor certainly stinks of corruption/collusion and the optics are that Michkov was given unprecedented leverage over a puppet KHL team which had to play into the equation that made NHL teams nervous.

Generally speaking, what it means is that Michkov wasn't getting the ice time necessary for development, so they decided to loan him to a team where he would receive more ice time and hence where he would have an easier time developing.

Such a system would benefit NHL as well. Wouldn't it be great if a top contender could loan a high-end prospect to a bottom team like Blackhawks or Ducks for development instead of having to sit him around as a healthy scratch, or send him down to AHL?