RW Matvei Michkov (2023, 7th, PHI) Part 4

[BB88]

Not that I claim it, it's just when a player plays clearly under his skill level, it usually happens because of character problems. Fantilli played poorly at WJC, ability to play great at short tournaments is usually a good sign that the player does his best when it matters. The contrary usually means... well, the contrary.

Some of you reeeeeally love reaching.

-McDavid wasn’t McDavid at the WJC, should we be concerned?
-Draisaitl, 6 points,
-Mackinnon, 1 point,
-Rantanen, 4 points,
-Jack Hughes, 4 points,
-Mitch Marner, 6 points on his +1 season,
-Barkov, 7 points,
-Heiskanen, 1 point,
-E. Pettersson, 1 point
-Beniers, 3 points,
-Stutzle, 5 points,
-Raymond, 4 points,
-Svechnikov, 5 points.

How do any of these teams have any hope left?

It’s like putting a short tourney over a full seasons body of work wouldn’t be smart?


A team that picks Fantilli won’t turn him into a winger& he got better as the tourney went on.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Not that I claim it, it's just when a player plays clearly under his skill level, it usually happens because of character problems. Fantilli played poorly at WJC, ability to play great at short tournaments is usually a good sign that the player does his best when it matters. The contrary usually means... well, the contrary.

I dont know if a single thing you said in this post is correct

 

[BB88]

I dont know if a single thing you said in this post is correct

The list above shows how ridiculous that is.

It’s alright to love Michkov and his potential, but this thread is constantly over the top like the movie

 

[Kshahdoo]

Some of you reeeeeally love reaching.

-McDavid wasn’t McDavid at the WJC, should we be concerned?
-Draisaitl, 6 points,
-Mackinnon, 1 point,
-Rantanen, 4 points,
-Jack Hughes, 4 points,
-Mitch Marner, 6 points on his +1 season,
-Barkov, 7 points,
-Heiskanen, 1 point,
-E. Pettersson, 1 point
-Beniers, 3 points,
-Stutzle, 5 points,
-Raymond, 4 points,
-Svechnikov, 5 points.

How do any of these teams have any hope left?

It’s like putting a short tourney over a full seasons body of work wouldn’t be smart?


A team that picks Fantilli won’t turn him into a winger& he got better as the tourney went on.

Your list basically proves my words. The only player on the list who was great when it matters is Mackinnon. Btw Rantanen led his team in points and goals at the tournament, it's just the team wasn't very good so he couldn't do it all himself. McDavid led the tournament in points in his draft year, not sure why is he on the list.

 

[MrGuyPerson]

The list above shows how ridiculous that is.

It’s alright to love Michkov and his potential, but this thread is constantly over the top like the movie

More than half of this list were players who had outstanding tournaments as underage players. A lot scored at a point per game clip or better which is fantastic. So I personally am not quite sure what point you think the list is making? Some players have strong performances in their draft year, but not all players do?

for the record:
Huges ppg, stu ppg, drai ppg, barkov ppg, svech ppg, marner over a ppg.

Also, your hard stance against Michkov is kind of odd. He is a generational prospect, it is cool if you don't recognize that, but he will be a star in the NHL whether you recognize it or not.

Michkov is a prodigy. He is the best Russian prospect since Ovi. That really isn't debatable it just is what is. Michkov also has the same natural goal scoring ability that Ovi is famous for. If you don't recognize Michkov's ability, that is a you thing. Not an everyone else thing. As someone who watched a number of Michkov's games it does make me question just how much you have watched him play, but you are entitled to think whatever you would like. All I can say is hopefully he is not taken by the team you support. I for one will throw a party if he is taken by one of the teams I support.

Food for thought: If there was no shortened seasons in Ovi's career (the 04-05 lockout, 12-13 half season, covid season)Ovi is already the leading goal scorer in the NHL history. I would never pass on any talent labeled "the next" since they were a kid. Definitely wouldn't pass on "the next" Ovi.

McDavid was labeled "the next". Crosby was labeled "the next". Bedard was labeled "the next" and michkov was also labeled "the next". They have been pegged to be stars since they were playing up birth years in peewee, maybe even squirt. McDavid had the label back in his Marlies days. Crosby had the label well before he stunted on Shattuck's prep squad as a sophmore(he was literally already sponsored by that time because everyone in hockey knew he was "the next"), Bedard and Michkov have been label it for years prior to this as well. It is quite interesting that despite putting up outstanding numbers in the KHL and being labeled as one of "the next" since he was a child you have a stance of "over hyped".

 

[BB88]

Your list basically proves my words. The only player on the list who was great when it matters is Mackinnon. Btw Rantanen led his team in points and goals at the tournament, it's just the team wasn't very good so he couldn't do it all himself. McDavid led the tournament in points in his draft year, not sure why is he on the list.

Your claim got absolutely destroyed.

1st of all you claimed average WJC tends to tell about players character problems, how many of those players are seen as having character problems at the NHL level?

That list inludes a good amount of the best u30 players (and team Captains) in the league and who all had average tournaments for their level.

+Mackinnon, Drai, Heiskanen, Rantanen, McDavid are all proven playoff performers.


McDavid didn’t even score half the points Bedard did in his WJC, didn’t stop from becoming the best player in the league.

Just stop when you still can.

 

[BB88]

More than half of this list were players who had outstanding tournaments as underage players. A lot scored at a point per game clip or better which is fantastic. So I personally am not quite sure what point you think the list is making? Some players have strong performances in their draft year, but not all players do?

for the record:
Huges ppg, stu ppg, drai ppg, barkov ppg, svech ppg, marner over a ppg.

Also, your hard stance against Michkov is kind of odd. He is a generational prospect, it is cool if you don't recognize that, but he will be a star in the NHL whether you recognize it or not.

Michkov is a prodigy. He is the best Russian prospect since Ovi. That really isn't debatable it just is what is. Michkov also has the same natural goal scoring ability that Ovi is famous for. If you don't recognize Michkov's ability, that is a you thing. Not an everyone else thing. As someone who watched a number of Michkov's games it does make me question just how much you have watched him play, but you are entitled to think whatever you would like. All I can say is hopefully he is not taken by the team you support. I for one will throw a party if he is taken by one of the teams I support.

Food for thought: If there was no shortened seasons in Ovi's career (the 04-05 lockout, 12-13 half season, covid season)Ovi is already the leading goal scorer in the NHL history. I would never pass on any talent labeled "the next" since they were a kid. Definitely wouldn't pass on "the next" Ovi.

McDavid was labeled "the next". Crosby was labeled "the next". Bedard was labeled "the next" and michkov was also labeled "the next". They have been pegged to be stars since they were playing up birth years in peewee, maybe even squirt. McDavid had the label back in his Marlies days. Crosby had the label well before he stunted on Shattuck's prep squad as a sophmore(he was literally already sponsored by that time because everyone in hockey knew he was "the next"), Bedard and Michkov have been label it for years prior to this as well. It is quite interesting that despite putting up outstanding numbers in the KHL and being labeled as one of "the next" since he was a child you have a stance of "over hyped".

The point is Fantilli scored at similar level to those players yet he’s doomed and we should be concerned with his character issues.

Michkov is great, he’s a franchise prospect but he has too many question marks around his game to be ranked next to McDavid and as better prospect than Matthews.

Ovy is was a bull on skates who could fly on the ice. Michkov is a much smaller winger who’s not an elite skater. Something you’d really want to see when it comes to a smaller winger. His defensive game also needs a lot of cleaning up still.

He’s a franchise prospect and any team that gets him should be extremely happy abou it.
He’s just not at McDavid level

 

[Garl]

Your list basically proves my words. The only player on the list who was great when it matters is Mackinnon. Btw Rantanen led his team in points and goals at the tournament, it's just the team wasn't very good so he couldn't do it all himself. McDavid led the tournament in points in his draft year, not sure why is he on the list.

"Great when it matters" is basically winning the Cup? Well WJC is not a great predictor of that

Steve Mason, John Tavares, Jordan Eberle, Brayden Schenn, Evgeny Kuznetsov, John Gibson, Filip Forsberg, Denis Godla, Jesse Puljujarvi, Thomas Chabot
All WJC MVPs

So, out of this list only 2 guys won SC, and only one of them(Kuznetsov) was go to guy for his team, He is also a guy who rapidly declined after 27.

On the other hand, you have a guy like Victor Hedman who actually had a rather bad tournament in 2008 and then became a Conn Smythe Trophy winner. And many others.

 

[BB88]

"Great when it matters" is basically winning the Cup? Well WJC is not a great predictor of that

Steve Mason, John Tavares, Jordan Eberle, Brayden Schenn, Evgeny Kuznetsov, John Gibson, Filip Forsberg, Denis Godla, Jesse Puljujarvi, Thomas Chabot
All WJC MVPs

So, out of this list only 2 guys won SC, and only one of them(Kuznetsov) was go to guy for his team, He is also a guy who rapidly declined after 27.

On the other hand, you have a guy like Victor Hedman who actually had a rather bad tournament in 2008 and then became a Conn Smythe Trophy winner. And many others.

& the original claim was that tells about players character problem.

Which of the list has more players with character concerns?

The list that had good amount of the best u30 players in the league underperforming or your list?


The biggest mistake in drafting is overreacting to short tournaments.
Another example is Juolevi, awesome tournament got him picked at 5.

These aren’t strikes against Michkov, just that claiming Fantilli shouldn’t be a #2 based on wjc is just rubbish

 

[OKR]

The biggest mistake in drafting is overreacting to short tournaments.
Another example is Juolevi, awesome tournament got him picked at 5.

Juolevi was ranked 8-14th before even coming over to OHL, the early consensus was that either Juolevi or Chycrun was going to be the first dman off the board, and he then raised his stock the whole season.

To say he wen’t 5th only because of great WJC is re-writing history.

 

[Kshahdoo]

"Great when it matters" is basically winning the Cup? Well WJC is not a great predictor of that

Steve Mason, John Tavares, Jordan Eberle, Brayden Schenn, Evgeny Kuznetsov, John Gibson, Filip Forsberg, Denis Godla, Jesse Puljujarvi, Thomas Chabot
All WJC MVPs

So, out of this list only 2 guys won SC, and only one of them(Kuznetsov) was go to guy for his team, He is also a guy who rapidly declined after 27.

On the other hand, you have a guy like Victor Hedman who actually had a rather bad tournament in 2008 and then became a Conn Smythe Trophy winner. And many others.

Nah, McDavid was 2 PPG in the previous playoffs, and they won nothing. He was great when it mattered, the team wasn't. The same about Draisaitl, and Drai played great at WJCs as well, but again Germany teams didn't.

 

[BB88]

Juolevi was ranked 8-14th before even coming over to OHL, the early consensus was that either Juolevi or Chycrun was going to be the first dman off the board, and he then raised his stock the whole season.

To say he wen’t 5th only because of great WJC is re-writing history.

His stock was raised clearly by the WJC.

If you look at that list of top under 30 players in the league having weak to average wjc’s and what they are today support/show how ridiculous it is to make major claims based on wjc’s.

WJC tells you nothing about what they’ll end up doing in the NHL& even more ridiculous to claim weak to average WJC during draft year suggests character concerns.

 

[OKR]

His stock was raised clearly by the WJC.

If you look at that list of top under 30 players in the league having weak to average wjc’s and what they are today support/show how ridiculous it is to make major claims based on wjc’s.

WJC tells you nothing about what they’ll end up doing in the NHL& even more ridiculous to claim weak to average WJC during draft year suggests character concerns.

How ”cleary” can it raise when he was ranked top 10 before the tournament, and top 15 before even playing in the OHL where he made the 3rd all-star team, Memorial Cup all star team etc.

You should know, you were really high on him before the WJC

 

[BB88]

How ”cleary” can it raise when he was ranked top 10 before the tournament, and top 15 before even playing in the OHL where he made the 3rd all-star team, Memorial Cup all star team etc.

You should know, you were really high on him before the WJC

That tourney ”quaranteed” he’ll be the 1st Dman taken.

What’s your argument here, that people don’t overreact to WJC’s? Whether they went well or bad.

Pulju was a monster in those tourneys, yet here we are.
Fantilli had a good wjc yet he shouldn’t be taken at 2 because he showed he has character concerns& isn’t that good.
Yet the vast majority of u30 top players(and picks) had okay to good wjc’s to their standards& they are pretty much all well respected, wear either A or C on their chest.

= people love to overreact to short tourneys and love to go reaching big time

 

[BB88]

Nah, McDavid was 2 PPG in the previous playoffs, and they won nothing. He was great when it mattered, the team wasn't. The same about Draisaitl, and Drai played great at WJCs as well, but again Germany teams didn't.

Laf won the wjc MVP in 2020
Poehling won the wjc MVP in 2019
Mittelstad won the wjc MVP in 2018
Puljujarvi won the wjc MVP in 2016

2021& 2022 MVP’s are playing for a bottom4 team in the standings.

I’m sure you’d have any one of those over a guy like Mackinnon, Drai, Hughes or Pettersson. Because they proved their character at the wjc.

 

[OKR]

That tourney ”quaranteed” he’ll be the 1st Dman taken.

What’s your argument here, that people don’t overreact to WJC’s? Whether they went well or bad.

Pulju was a monster in those tourneys, yet here we are.
Fantilli had a good wjc yet he shouldn’t be taken at 2 because he showed he has character concerns& isn’t that good.
Yet the vast majority of u30 top players(and picks) had okay to good wjc’s to their standards.

= people love to overreact to short tourneys and love to go reaching big time

My ”argument” is that Juolevi is AWFUL example to use to try to prove the point you’re trying to prove because he is basically the exact opposite of it.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Laf won the wjc MVP in 2020
Poehling won the wjc MVP in 2019
Mittelstad won the wjc MVP in 2018
Puljujarvi won the wjc MVP in 2016

2021& 2022 MVP’s are playing for a bottom4 team in the standings.

I’m sure you’d have any one of those over a guy like Mackinnon, Drai, Hughes or Pettersson. Because they proved their character at the wjc.

I mean players who played under their skill level and not those who looked great at WJC and not that great in the NHL.

When you looked like the best player in NCAA, where a lot of 20+ year old guys played, and then disappeared at U20 tournament it didn't mean you weren't skilled enough, it meant you couldn't handle mental pressure or couldn't handle a short tournament intensity or both.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

I mean players who played under their skill level and not those who looked great at WJC and not that great in the NHL.

When you looked like the best player in NCAA, where a lot of 20+ year old guys played, and then disappeared at U20 tournament it didn't mean you weren't skilled enough, it meant you couldn't handle mental pressure or couldn't handle a short tournament intensity or both.

He didn't disappear though. He still put up 5 point in 7 games while being moved up and down the lineup. Canada rarely uses draft eligible players, and Fantilli had a decent tournament while play on a limited role in one of the best forward groups Team Canada has used.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Y'all do know there is a Fantilli thread right? Surprised a mod hasn't moved that over. This is super off topic. Michkov wasn't even allowed at the junior tournament y'all keep talking about it lol

 

[Kshahdoo]

Y'all do know there is a Fantilli thread right? Surprised a mod hasn't moved that over. This is super off topic. Michkov wasn't even allowed at the junior tournament y'all keep talking about it lol

It's actually not about Fantilli, it's about prospects, Michkov included. Matvei has aways been the best no matter what tournaments he played at.

 

[kp61c]

His stint in the MHL proved that he easily could have crapped his pants at the WJC like Fantili did. Pointless to guess now.

 

[WarriorofTime]

His stint in the MHL proved that he easily could have crapped his pants at the WJC like Fantili did. Pointless to guess now.

If "crapping the bed" is still posting 4 goals and 3 assists in 5 games, three more points than the next closest teammate. Then I think that would be just fine...

 

[kp61c]

If "crapping the bed" is still posting 4 goals and 3 assists in 5 games, three more points than the next closest teammate. Then I think that would be just fine...

Fantili had 2 goals in 7 games playing for a powerhouse against the likes of Germany, Austria, Slovakia. Nah, he crapped the bed all right. Michkov was atrocious in the mhl, stats are somewhat misleading here.

 

[BB88]

I mean players who played under their skill level and not those who looked great at WJC and not that great in the NHL.

When you looked like the best player in NCAA, where a lot of 20+ year old guys played, and then disappeared at U20 tournament it didn't mean you weren't skilled enough, it meant you couldn't handle mental pressure or couldn't handle a short tournament intensity or both.

Your claim is a really bad one and you got taken to school with it.

It’s okay to love Michkov, he’s an awesome prospect.

But no need to go to reaching like this or it will just mess up the thread

 

[Czechboy]

McDavid didn’t even score half the points Bedard did in his WJC,

It's a very short list of people that did.lol

Bedard had 27 points in 7 games.. half of that is 13.5 points.. most people don't get 13 or 14 points in a World Tourney tourney, that is usually the leading scorer.

This tourney it was Logan Cooley with 14. No one else.

Last tourney, only Mason McTavish with 17. No one else.

Zegras and Cousins before that.

Samual Fagemo was the only guy to do it in 2020

No one in 2019

No one in 2018

No one in 2017

Aho and JP in 2016

No one in 2015

I could keep going but 'getting half of Bedards points' is a hell of a high bar.lol