RW Matvei Michkov (2023, 7th, PHI) Part 4

[ValeriKamensky]

First they put Michkov at the same tier as Bedard. After they try to find excuses: bad linemates, lack of creativity in the defense.
Yeah, I’m rooting for opinion that this Flyers roster is one of the worst in team history. But it’s still far better than last season Blackhawks. And there was no excuses for Bedard - he played 1C and scored a lot of points, showing really mature plays.

Mich is a good player. Probably in some areas is better than I thought (puck protection for example), but he’s just not the same level as Bedard.

 

[MNRube]

First they put Michkov at the same tier as Bedard. After they try to find excuses: bad linemates, lack of creativity in the defense.
Yeah, I’m rooting for opinion that this Flyers roster is one of the worst in team history.

I actually like their forwards. Need one more 1st liner, preferably a C. But all of Foerster, Brink, Frost, Farabee, Luchanko can play and then you have the clear top 6 guys in Michkov, Konecny and Tippett. 4th line is also very effective.

Blueline is a complete disaster though. Seeler will help a bit but this team is going to take years off Torts’ life with their defensive shortcomings.

They need Bonk to be a difference maker and to add a bluechip defender in the next 12 months. I bet they move one of their many young middle 6 Fs and some futures this summer to address the glaring imbalance.

As much as I like Luchanko, I think they should’ve went after Silayev, Buium or Dickinson when they started slipping down the board.

 

[waffledave]

You mean so expensive that a pro hockey player wouldn't be able to afford a flight to the States or it would be too expensive for an NHL club to send their scouts to Russia?

It's hard to send people to Russia. American credit cards don't work there.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

First they put Michkov at the same tier as Bedard. After they try to find excuses: bad linemates, lack of creativity in the defense.
Yeah, I’m rooting for opinion that this Flyers roster is one of the worst in team history. But it’s still far better than last season Blackhawks. And there was no excuses for Bedard - he played 1C and scored a lot of points, showing really mature plays.

Mich is a good player. Probably in some areas is better than I thought (puck protection for example), but he’s just not the same level as Bedard.

Bedard was a center in name only. He was essentially a winger who took faceoffs and then cheated for offense at every opportunity, and was usually the last forward back and first forward to fly the zone. There is no way he'd be allowed to play like that under a coach like Tortorella.

 

[Frank Drebin]

I was in Texas in 2021 when 90 percent of the crowd were NHL scouts. Sat two rows in front of Todd Harvey and his crew and they were ooohing and aaahing over Michkov the entire Czech game, and it should go without saying how rare it is for scouts at a viewing to show any emotion at all. The general mood from everyone in attendance was that Michkov-Bedard were a generational duo and media reported as such.

Then the Ukraine war happened and the narrative completely shifted.

The publisher of The Hockey News wrote a full-page op-ed that NHL teams should avoid drafting Russians. Bob McKenzie quoted scouts who said ownership ordered no Russians were to be drafted. There was a full-on anti-Michkov campaign in the media and to think it had to do with anything but the fact that he was Russian is laughable.

Russians taken by year: First round in brackets

2024 (4) - 26 total
2023 (4) - 20 total
2022 (3) - 23 total
2021 (1) - 29 total
2020 (4) - 23 total
2019 (1) - 28 total
2018 (4) - 20 total
The totals get lower the further we go back.

2018 had 4 Russians drafted in the first round and 20 Russians total. Was there an anti Russia campaign going on in 2018 as well?


Just giving a quick glance 2023 really doesn't look out of place at all. Perhaps teams in 2023 werent willing to take a chance on later draft picks on players they hadn't scouted much but with 4 first rounders coming from Russia (tied for the most in recent years) it doesn't look like the anti Russian campaign worked all that well.

 

[Fantomas]

Most minutes among Flyers forwards last night, so Torts is keeping Michkov out there, providing him with opportunities to produce. Would be nice for Michkov to have the longest leash in the world like Bedard did last year. Probably won't be as long though.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Russians taken by year: First round in brackets

2024 (4) - 26 total
2023 (4) - 20 total
2022 (3) - 23 total
2021 (1) - 29 total
2020 (4) - 23 total
2019 (1) - 28 total
2018 (4) - 20 total
The totals get lower the further we go back.

2018 had 4 Russians drafted in the first round and 20 Russians total. Was there an anti Russia campaign going on in 2018 as well?


Just giving a quick glance 2023 really doesn't look out of place at all. Perhaps teams in 2023 werent willing to take a chance on later draft picks on players they hadn't scouted much but with 4 first rounders coming from Russia (tied for the most in recent years) it doesn't look like the anti Russian campaign worked all that well.

I’m assuming you’re counting NA imports who were already here and you’re also not incorporating the percentages per draft class size, which expanded from 211 to 217 to 224 from 2016 to 2021. I did this study in my 2022 draft report. The percentage of Russian-league prospects drafted:

2019 12.0%(26/217)
2020 11.1 % (24/217)
2021 12.9% (29/224)
Ukraine War
2022 11.1% (25/225)
2023 8.5% (19/224)

2023 — Michkov’s draft year — saw the lowest percentage of Russian-leaguers drafted since 2017. Not a coincidence.

 

[Frank Drebin]

I’m assuming you’re counting NA imports who were already here and you’re also not incorporating the percentages per draft class size, which expanded from 211 to 217 to 224 from 2016 to 2021. I did this study in my 2022 draft report. The percentage of Russian-league prospects drafted:

2019 12.0%(26/217)
2020 11.1 % (24/217)
2021 12.9% (29/224)
Ukraine War
2022 11.1% (25/225)
2023 8.5% (19/224)

2023 — Michkov’s draft year — saw the lowest percentage of Russian-leaguers drafted since 2017. Not a coincidence.

yes, the lower percentage could explain teams not taking a risk on later picks. Still 4 first round picks from Russia in 2023, as many as any recent year. Interestingly enough, Montreal, a team who passed on Michkov because of supposed Russian factor picked Russian players in round 4 and 5

Chicago picked a Russian in round 2
Arizona picked 2 Russians in Round 1
San Jose picked a Russian in Round 7

Only two teams that passed on Michkov (Anaheim and Columbus) didn't pick a Russian in the 2023 draft.

So, Im not sure I buy the Russian factor.

 

[Sombastate]

He's a point per game, has shown a bit more defensive ability than i expected (I expected less than none). Also has a little chippiness to his game.

He's pretty much just as advertised if not better. Whether he's as good as anyone else is really not something i think Flyer fans care about. Is he as good as we hoped he was? The answer is pretty much an emphatic "yes"

 

[MNRube]

He needs to find his version of Zuccarello/Kane. Both Kaprizov and Panarin found partners that could think the game at their level and it was a huge boost to their productivity. I’m not sure Frost is that guy, he seems to hold on to the puck a bit too much. Michkov moves it immediately and needs someone who can do the same IMO.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

yes, the lower percentage could explain teams not taking a risk on later picks. Still 4 first round picks from Russia in 2023, as many as any recent year. Interestingly enough, Montreal, a team who passed on Michkov because of supposed Russian factor picked Russian players in round 4 and 5

Chicago picked a Russian in round 2
Arizona picked 2 Russians in Round 1
San Jose picked a Russian in Round 7

Only two teams that passed on Michkov (Anaheim and Columbus) didn't pick a Russian in the 2023 draft.

So, Im not sure I buy the Russian factor.

Russian factor was one of several perceived roadblocks. The media assault came from multiple angles I already mentioned. Still, a collective 5% drop in just two years is massive for any league/nation.

My interpretation was Chicago wasn’t taking Michkov over Bedard, Anaheim is suspect since they have drafted fewer Russian leaguers than anyone the last two decades, Columbus took Chinakhov in 2020 but went for the bigger center, San Jose was scared since Smith wasn’t needed and he wasn’t BPA, Montreal was scared since Reinbacher was neither needed nor BPA, and Arizona went for need.

FWIW, teams who havent drafted Russians since 2022:

Anaheim
Boston
Los Angeles
NY Rangers
Ottawa
Seattle
Vancouver

 

[ViD]

First they put Michkov at the same tier as Bedard. After they try to find excuses: bad linemates, lack of creativity in the defense.
Yeah, I’m rooting for opinion that this Flyers roster is one of the worst in team history. But it’s still far better than last season Blackhawks. And there was no excuses for Bedard - he played 1C and scored a lot of points, showing really mature plays.

Mich is a good player. Probably in some areas is better than I thought (puck protection for example), but he’s just not the same level as Bedard.

Bedard had tons of ice time and zero defensive responsibility- he was -44 and under PPG.

Michkov will not have the same carte blanche but will likely score at a similar pace or higher

 

[TimeZone]

Bedard had tons of ice time and zero defensive responsibility- he was -44 and under PPG.

Michkov will not have the same carte blanche but will likely score at a similar pace or higher

Michkov is also 20 years old, Bedard was a young 18 to begin his rookie season.

 

[The Burdened]

Michkov is also 20 years old, Bedard was a young 18 to begin his rookie season.

Michkov is 19 to begin his rookie season

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Michkov is also 20 years old, Bedard was a young 18 to begin his rookie season.

Michkov is 19 for 2 more months.

 

[TimeZone]

Michkov is 19 to begin his rookie season

Michkov is 19 for 2 more months.

My mistake -- He'll be 20 in 7 weeks, regardless he's still well over a year and a half older than Bedard during his rookie season, Bedard just turned 19 in July

20 months is nothing to sneeze at.

 

[Frank Drebin]

FWIW, teams who havent drafted Russians since 2022:

Anaheim
Boston
Los Angeles
NY Rangers
Ottawa
Seattle
Vancouver

That makes sense

There are more teams drafting than there are russian players available to draft. 32 teams and 19-24 russians selected every year.

No Russians in a 3 year period is nothing more than a coincidence. Im sure someone could calculate the actual odds of it happening organically.

Especially when you don’t count Russian players like Mintyukov.

 

[majormajor]

....and....you still haven't managed to adress, or even acknowledge, the elephant in the room. The anti-Russian bias against Michkov was so strong that he was drafted behind another Russian
Hey maybe i'm wrong. Dmitri Simashev is not actually Russian. He's actually Latvian? everybody loves Latvians! Has anybody told Simashev that he can't possibly be Russian?

EDIT: Just to add to that. Why do you think NHL ready Zach Benson fell to #13. One spot behind But? Whose from where?
How about Andrew Cristall at #40, or Stankoven at #50 whatever a couple years ago?
We all know nhl scouts and management teams are biased against a certain player type. If a player gets lumped in that category he's going to fall, how far is the only question. Nationality has very little to do with it.

100% correct. We talk endlessly on the boards about biases against small players but when it comes to Michkov's draft day fall, Michkov stans won't mention it at all.

A conventional reason why their player fell on draft day isn't special enough for them. So we focus entirely on the Russian thing, even though he was the second Russian drafted that day.

I also saw him in Frisco at the U18s and it was plain as day he was a transcendent talent. He has that rare rapid processing ability you see from the best athletes.

The Coyotes at the time had Keller, Cooley, Maccelli, Schmaltz and nothing on the blueline. That was surely a factor. As was that franchise’s inferiority complex. And maybe Michkov indicated he didn’t want to land there. Who knows. Doesn’t matter.

Anyone who was paying attention knew he was a superior talent. Similar to Luka Doncic in the NBA. A European prodigy without ideal physical characteristics who was passed over by GMs because their horrible job security makes them risk averse.

There's no doubt that Michkov was held in that regard at that point. He was destroying every international tournament. But prospects mature at different rates and what is said about a kid at 16 doesn't mean a whole lot a couple years later. None of them are NHL ready at that point so how they're developing is the more interesting thing. Shane Wright (not on Michkov's level I know) was a phenom at 16 and people couldn't handle it when he stopped being held in that regard, but he just didn't have that growth trajectory scouts were looking for.

Michkov and Bedard were at the same level at age 16 but Bedard's skating and strength really took off after that in ways that Michkov's did not. There's no reason to expect them to always be kept at the same level in people's minds. It is not some injustice in the world if they follow different development paths.

First they put Michkov at the same tier as Bedard. After they try to find excuses: bad linemates, lack of creativity in the defense.
Yeah, I’m rooting for opinion that this Flyers roster is one of the worst in team history. But it’s still far better than last season Blackhawks. And there was no excuses for Bedard - he played 1C and scored a lot of points, showing really mature plays.

Mich is a good player. Probably in some areas is better than I thought (puck protection for example), but he’s just not the same level as Bedard.

Michkov is playing well so it is indeed wild to see so much needless excuse making. Michkov stans remind me so much of the Laine fan brigade we had here in his early years. Every time Laine had a bad period it was someone else's fault. He was playing on the best PP in the league and it was never good enough for them. When the team finally emerges from their rebuild, look for whoever is on Michkov's line to get tarred and feathered.

 

[MNRube]

There's no doubt that Michkov was held in that regard at that point. He was destroying every international tournament. But prospects mature at different rates and what is said about a kid at 16 doesn't mean a whole lot a couple years later. None of them are NHL ready at that point so how they're developing is the more interesting thing. Shane Wright (not on Michkov's level I know) was a phenom at 16 and people couldn't handle it when he stopped being held in that regard, but he just didn't have that growth trajectory scouts were looking for.

Michkov and Bedard were at the same level at age 16 but Bedard's skating and strength really took off after that in ways that Michkov's did not. There's no reason to expect them to always be kept at the same level in people's minds. It is not some injustice in the world if they follow different development paths.

It’s not like his development stagnated. He stopped being able to play against his peers due to sanctions against Russia. Bedard had his WJC moment and his Calder, but it’s far from written in stone that Bedard turns out better. That discussion is still 3 to 4 years away. Michkov is a more cerebral player who may require certain linemates to maximize his potential. Time will tell.

Aesthetically, Michkov is more appealing. He skates ugly but he’s so smart and so competitive. He plays a style all his own. He should age extremely well as he has a superior hockey IQ.

 

[majormajor]

It’s not like his development stagnated. He stopped being able to play against his peers due to sanctions against Russia. Bedard had his WJC moment and his Calder, but it’s far from written in stone that Bedard turns out better. That discussion is still 3 to 4 years away. Michkov is a more cerebral player who may require certain linemates to maximize his potential. Time will tell.

Aesthetically, Michkov is more appealing. He skates ugly but he’s so smart and so competitive. He plays a style all his own. He should age extremely well as he has a superior hockey IQ.

From age 16 through 18 I think he appeared to be on less of a steep trajectory. His skating and his physique did not improve much.

Nothing is in set in stone, correct, maybe you'l be right that he'll be better. But the point I was making is that how they compared at age 16 at Frisco isn't that relevant. It's not some weird thing if they stop being comparable players.

 

[Fantomas]

Wow, look at all this manufactured drama over here. So much sound and fury. Almost enough to obscure the fact that Michkov is already in the NHL and doing pretty great.

 

[majormajor]

Wow, look at all this manufactured drama over here. So much sound and fury. Almost enough to obscure the fact that Michkov is already in the NHL and doing pretty great.

Yes, you wonder why people feel the need to make so many excuses for him. He doesn't seem to need excuses.

 

[MNRube]

From age 16 through 18 I think he appeared to be on less of a steep trajectory. His skating and his physique did not improve much.

Nothing is in set in stone, correct, maybe you'l be right that he'll be better. But the point I was making is that how they compared at age 16 at Frisco isn't that relevant. It's not some weird thing if they stop being comparable players.

I didn’t use Michkov’s performance at Frisco to compare him to Bedard. I reported that it was obvious he was a special and unique talent.

GMs failed because they lacked conviction and courage. He’s an easy guy to talk yourself out of — small, bit of an awkward skater, rumors of attitude issues etc. But they should’ve ignored the devil on the shoulder and taken the best hockey player rather than the best set of tools.

He will be a superstar and some of us have known that for 3 years. You can’t say that about anyone in his draft besides Bedard.

 

[MrGuyPerson]

Most minutes among Flyers forwards last night, so Torts is keeping Michkov out there, providing him with opportunities to produce. Would be nice for Michkov to have the longest leash in the world like Bedard did last year. Probably won't be as long though.

I am pretty confident the leash will be long, not infinite, but long.

That said I am also confident that Michkov will get benched at some point this season. However, l doubt it will be a recurring thing. Nor do I think it will be some majorly dramatic situation like PLD, Laine, and Vinny Lecavalier. I think when he is benched it will likely be the mundane reason most players get benched. Which is... sometimes even the best players have bad games. During those times a ride on pine pony is all you can really do for the player and team. When that moment comes, Michkov likely will accept the bench and play better next game. It happened last season in Sochi. Played Awful. Rode Pine. Bounced back better than ever. No drawn out drama

 

[AlternateSideParking]

That makes sense

There are more teams drafting than there are russian players available to draft. 32 teams and 19-24 russians selected every year.

No Russians in a 3 year period is nothing more than a coincidence. Im sure someone could calculate the actual odds of it happening organically.

Especially when you don’t count Russian players like Mintyukov.

You’re failing to acknowledge the well-known strength of Russia’s 2004 and 2005 birth years. It was nonsensical that two of their strongest and highly-anticipated draft classes just happened to produce Russia’s two lowest draft totals in a five-year period and immediately after the highest pct ever taken in the salary cap era.

So the question remains — why was there a decrease? Made no sense at the time and more so in retrospect. The anti-Russian rhetoric from the Canadian media, coupled with the CHL and IIHF bans paints a pretty clear picture in my book.

From March, 2022:

NHL player agent Dan Milstein, who represents a majority of the Russian-born players in the league, told ESPN his clients are experiencing "disturbing levels" of harassment and believes draft-eligible players are already being discriminated against because of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

"The discrimination and racism these Russian and Belarusian players are facing right now is remarkable," Milstein told ESPN in an interview on Tuesday. "We're being set back 30 years. I have players calling me, parents calling me. They're concerned whether they'll be able to play, whether they'll be safe."

Agent: Russian NHL players harassed, threatened

Dan Milstein, who represents a majority of the Russian-born players in the NHL, said his clients have been the targets of "discrimination and racism" after Russia's invasion of Ukraine and are concerned for their safety.

www.espn.com