RW Matvei Michkov (2023, 7th, PHI) Part 4

[Fatass]

Tough game for Michkov 5v5, but really good on PP as always, just picked up an assist to keep his production point per game

Bedard was a minus 45 in his rookie year. And not a ppg. MM is better, so far.

 

[jj cale]

Bedard was a minus 45 in his rookie year. And not a ppg. MM is better, so far.

Michkovs a year older in his rookie season too. I see little difference in their starts yet, you couldn't get much closer all things considered.

 

[ViD]

Pretty meh game for him tonight.

His board play and play in tight spaces was below his typical standard. Also had a handful of pucks bounce over his stick or he mishandled.

Both he and the Philly crowd is gonna be fired up Saturday night for the home opener. Bummed I’m not able to make it.

I think he started the game well, moved the puck really well on the 2 PPs they had, then Seattle really limited his ice and he also got dumped in a corner so he might have been hurting a bit.

Fedotov blew the game badly and the Flyers were shell shocked until the end of the third

 

[Acallabeth]

you're making this sound like everything was normal and a-ok. Do you know how expensive it became to fly out of Russia to even place like Georgia, with all due respect, around this time?

You mean so expensive that a pro hockey player wouldn't be able to afford a flight to the States or it would be too expensive for an NHL club to send their scouts to Russia?

 

[SaSaShi]

Bedard was a minus 45 in his rookie year. And not a ppg. MM is better, so far.

I'm sorry but this sounds too fanboyish and completely not an objective view. You can't judge based on 4 games first of all, and two, Bedard was an 18 yr old compared to Michkov who is 19 now.

As of today Bedard looks like the more dominant player, but that can all change if Michkov improves his top speed skating, because MM has the better hockey mind between the two players, and that advantage could only be fully unlocked and utilized if his skating speed supports it.

 

[antman12]

I think he started the game well, moved the puck really well on the 2 PPs they had, then Seattle really limited his ice and he also got dumped in a corner so he might have been hurting a bit.

Fedotov blew the game badly and the Flyers were shell shocked until the end of the third

Agreed. Especially on the Fedotov part. Another game or two like he had tonight and he’ll be sent down to the A and Kolosov will be called up.

 

[kp61c]

fedotov is bad but the flyers have a lot of players that are no better. tippett can't pass for the life of him and couturier is all washed-up. why the one is locked up for five years and another for a whoopind seven is beyond me.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I learned my lesson from Lindros. There were 10,000 rumors for two years and it took 20+ years for the truth to come out. My stance has always been that Michkov was worth every risk and should have gone No. 2 overall, which is how it was trending until the Ukraine war ramped up anti-Russian sentiment. The media created a circus just like they did in 1991-92.

Somehow, it's apparently escaped your attention that 1 of the guys taken ahead of him was Russian. 1 of the 2 (or maybe 3) that he definitely should've went ahead of.
Your take makes it sound like he went in the 7th round not #7 OA.
6 teams passed on him. He was never going ahead of Bedard. Fantilli and Carlsson were going to play immediately (and are pretty damn good anyway). That leaves 3. And 1 of them took a different Russian. Yeah some real strong anti-Russian bias going on for sure.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Another game or two like he had tonight and he’ll be sent down to the A and Kolosov will be called up.

Not sure why would they wait. He has a career save percentage of .815. Even if it's just 5 games, that is utterly unplayable. Any reasonable waiver wire pickup would be better.

 

[Kshahdoo]

fedotov is bad but the flyers have a lot of players that are no better. tippett can't pass for the life of him and couturier is all washed-up. why the one is locked up for five years and another for a whoopind seven is beyond me.

It's not just Tippett, they don't have a single defenseman who can make a good stretch pass. It's exactly as it was in Sochi, where forwards had to create all 5vs5 offense so most chances were created by forechecking and steals. It's pretty tricky to create 5vs5 offense if your defensemen can't move the puck.

 

[SoundAndFury]

It's not just Tippett, they don't have a single defenseman who can make a good stretch pass. It's exactly as it was in Sochi, where forwards had to create all 5vs5 offense so most chances were created by forechecking and steals. It's pretty tricky to create 5vs5 offense if your defensemen can't move the puck.

I understand everyone under the sun is to blame Michkov is only scoring at a measly PPG pace but can we at least somewhat stick to reality instead of barking at literally anything?

 

[HeadLiceHatty]

Honestly this includes me too, should stop comparing him to Bedard, they’re both similar skill level talents and they were always at the same table. I really liked how Bedard came over and embraced him at the draft saying he always was welcome in his home if he was in town and Michkov returned the favor was one of those real recognizes real and they knew they were both cut from that cloth. Either way I think the substance in the thread would be much better if we focus only on Michkov, can make a general board thread a few years from now and compare them more closely.

 

[Kshahdoo]

I understand everyone under the sun is to blame Michkov is only scoring at a measly PPG pace but can we at least somewhat stick to reality instead of barking at literally anything?

Lol, it's not barking, even the Flyers fans say their defensemen can't pass. I've watched all 4 Philadelphia games and I know what I'm talking about. The team's defense have zero creativity with the puck, I mean, they use Zamula on the second PP. It's like using Kevin Hayes as your 1C...

 

[Steve Kournianos]

Somehow, it's apparently escaped your attention that 1 of the guys taken ahead of him was Russian. 1 of the 2 (or maybe 3) that he definitely should've went ahead of.
Your take makes it sound like he went in the 7th round not #7 OA.
6 teams passed on him. He was never going ahead of Bedard. Fantilli and Carlsson were going to play immediately (and are pretty damn good anyway). That leaves 3. And 1 of them took a different Russian. Yeah some real strong anti-Russian bias going on for sure.

I was in Texas in 2021 when 90 percent of the crowd were NHL scouts. Sat two rows in front of Todd Harvey and his crew and they were ooohing and aaahing over Michkov the entire Czech game, and it should go without saying how rare it is for scouts at a viewing to show any emotion at all. The general mood from everyone in attendance was that Michkov-Bedard were a generational duo and media reported as such.

Then the Ukraine war happened and the narrative completely shifted.

The publisher of The Hockey News wrote a full-page op-ed that NHL teams should avoid drafting Russians. Bob McKenzie quoted scouts who said ownership ordered no Russians were to be drafted. There was a full-on anti-Michkov campaign in the media and to think it had to do with anything but the fact that he was Russian is laughable.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

This thread couldn't be a bigger mess haha - but you're making this sound like everything was normal and a-ok. Do you know how expensive it became to fly out of Russia to even place like Georgia, with all due respect, around this time?

The price of a ticket is irrelevant, really — Russian players lflew in and out of Russia while the war was going on. The media rode this “they can’t leave” narrative and that one of the reasons Russians were falling in rankings was because teams couldn’t scout them live.

The question was literally asked by a credentialed reporter to an NHL scouting director and he flat out debunked it, saying the Sabres had no restrictions scouting Russian players and in some cases, had more difficulty getting access to North American players (presumably through agents, coaches, and parents).

Clearly, where there’s a will, there’s a way. Teams couldn’t live-scout the OHL in 2020-21 and still drafted them off video. Additionally, scouts should have had nearly 20 live viewings of Michkov outside of Russia between April and December of 2021.

All of it seemed like excuses, really.

 

[SaSaShi]

Lol, it's not barking, even the Flyers fans say their defensemen can't pass. I've watched all 4 Philadelphia games and I know what I'm talking about. The team's defense have zero creativity with the puck, I mean, they use Zamula on the second PP. It's like using Kevin Hayes as your 1C...

You're absolutely correct....we are roasting the dmen right now in philadelphia. It is so bad that Nick Seeler is probably our 3rd best overall dman. Nick effing Seeler. He's a 6th/7th dman on a cup contending team.

Zamula is an AHL quality dman, and he has the best offensive mind from the back end. He is just slow, and panics too much making him a bubble player.

Drysdale has the most potential, but he still needs a lot of coaching/seasoning.

Tortorella was quoted (paraphrase) regarding Drysdale before start of season : " I dont think Drysdale knows how to play the game (yet) " referring to his current lack of general hockey awareness.

I'm enjoying this though, more lottery balls the better.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

A lot of myths surrounding Michkov have been debunked, to the point where it’s more likely the media specifically targeted him for political reasons than Michkov being flawed or being an incredibly risky pick.

1) The Russian factor/KHL contract — debunked by Miroshnichenko, Khusnutdinov, Svechkov, Dorofeyev, Askarov etc. The fact that Michkov is literally in the NHL just over a year after being drafted proves how stupid, archaic, and xenophobic the term is. Bob McKenzie was full on board with pushing this narrative.

2) Inability to scout Russians because of COVID and Ukraine war — Completely debunked by Jerry Forton, Buffalo’s chief scout, who after the 2023 draft said he and his scouts had an easier time “getting access” to Russian players than many North American draft prospects. Teams who didn’t have Russian scouts on the ground have only themselves to blame, not a war or expired COVID restrictions.

3) Michkov has “character concerns” — completely debunked after the draft by the Flyers and Tortorella, who both said Michkov is ultra competitive and has little patience for substandard effort. Mark Messier was the same way and Canadians made him an icon and called it “leadership”. Clearly a double standard. Bedard was heralded for taking the game seriously and being robotic on game days.

4) Michkov is lazy off the puck — debunked within a week into training camp and easily one of the dumbest and most dishonest takes surrounding him. Cherry picking isn’t lazy if it’s done in spurts. Michkov can be a beast competitor in board battles.

5) Michkov isn’t a good skater — debunked from the start, as his edgework, balance, and agility are elite or near-elite. Very tough to lean off the puck and elusive to boot. Premier straight-line speed is not required to be a good skater nor to dominate the NHL. Panarin skates in mud and hit 100 points.

6) Michkov has a low IQ — not even needed to be debunked because it was moronic to even say so since his vision and anticipation are critical to his offense and production. There were a couple of bloggers who pushed this narrative and even ranked him outside the top 10. Unsurprisingly, a large portion of fans and even some in the media who didn’t track Michkov’s development took the bait and spread it across social media.

7) Michkov is bad defensively — not necessarily debunked yet, but Torts’ comments echo what I and many in this thread have been saying — he’s a winger paid to score goals and works hard to improve. He backchecks and sacrifices his body, which is a lot more than most teenage scorers offer. Another case of a double standard since Bedard is atrocious defensively as a center.

8) Michkov told teams he would not play for them — this is a gray area because of the agent quotes about not preferring Arizona and Washington, but we dont know if Michkov told them or any other teams beforehand not to draft him. I don’t buy it that Michkov forced his way to Philly, but the media narrative was so negative with help from anonymous scouts that I can see Michkov wanting to go only where he was truly wanted.

You need to find a hobby. You seem to be really obsessed.

 

[Michael Farkas]

All of it seemed like excuses, really.

This also may be true. Clubs flat out did not and do not have Russian scouts. So, you insert a disease, some trouble and strife, and whatever else...you can send a good - what - third (?) of the NHL running for the hills. I mean, why bother trying to understand what the MHL has to offer when you can step outside your backdoor and take the 42nd best 18-year-old in the OHL and call it a day...?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I was in Texas in 2021 when 90 percent of the crowd were NHL scouts. Sat two rows in front of Todd Harvey and his crew and they were ooohing and aaahing over Michkov the entire Czech game, and it should go without saying how rare it is for scouts at a viewing to show any emotion at all. The general mood from everyone in attendance was that Michkov-Bedard were a generational duo and media reported as such.

Then the Ukraine war happened and the narrative completely shifted.

The publisher of The Hockey News wrote a full-page op-ed that NHL teams should avoid drafting Russians. Bob McKenzie quoted scouts who said ownership ordered no Russians were to be drafted. There was a full-on anti-Michkov campaign in the media and to think it had to do with anything but the fact that he was Russian is laughable.

....and....you still haven't managed to adress, or even acknowledge, the elephant in the room. The anti-Russian bias against Michkov was so strong that he was drafted behind another Russian
Hey maybe i'm wrong. Dmitri Simashev is not actually Russian. He's actually Latvian? everybody loves Latvians! Has anybody told Simashev that he can't possibly be Russian?

EDIT: Just to add to that. Why do you think NHL ready Zach Benson fell to #13. One spot behind But? Whose from where?
How about Andrew Cristall at #40, or Stankoven at #50 whatever a couple years ago?
We all know nhl scouts and management teams are biased against a certain player type. If a player gets lumped in that category he's going to fall, how far is the only question. Nationality has very little to do with it.

 

[MNRube]

....and....you still haven't managed to adress, or even acknowledge, the elephant in the room. The anti-Russian bias against Michkov was so strong that he was drafted behind another Russian
Hey maybe i'm wrong. Dmitri Simashev is not actually Russian. He's actually Latvian? everybody loves Latvians! Has anybody told Simashev that he can't possibly be Russian?

I also saw him in Frisco at the U18s and it was plain as day he was a transcendent talent. He has that rare rapid processing ability you see from the best athletes.

The Coyotes at the time had Keller, Cooley, Maccelli, Schmaltz and nothing on the blueline. That was surely a factor. As was that franchise’s inferiority complex. And maybe Michkov indicated he didn’t want to land there. Who knows. Doesn’t matter.

Anyone who was paying attention knew he was a superior talent. Similar to Luka Doncic in the NBA. A European prodigy without ideal physical characteristics who was passed over by GMs because their horrible job security makes them risk averse.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

You need to find a hobby. You seem to be really obsessed.

I know, right? Who needs to cover draft prospects when I can be listening to NPR with CNN on in the background while sipping a glass of Napa Cabernet and perusing through the Sunday NY Times.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Interested to see how his legs hold up given he's never played a schedule like this in a while.

 

[FlyguyOX]

You're absolutely correct....we are roasting the dmen right now in philadelphia. It is so bad that Nick Seeler is probably our 3rd best overall dman. Nick effing Seeler. He's a 6th/7th dman on a cup contending team.

Zamula is an AHL quality dman, and he has the best offensive mind from the back end. He is just slow, and panics too much making him a bubble player.

Drysdale has the most potential, but he still needs a lot of coaching/seasoning.

Tortorella was quoted (paraphrase) regarding Drysdale before start of season : " I dont think Drysdale knows how to play the game (yet) " referring to his current lack of general hockey awareness.

I'm enjoying this though, more lottery balls the better.

Side note but Drysdale is terrible.

Luckily Gauthier looks pretty crap with the IQ and compete issues flyers fans previously noticed

 

[bwanajamba]

^Weird meltdown with the NPR and CNN stuff

Michkov is going to be a star and it's no reflection on him as a player (or even a person, really) to acknowledge that he probably tried to push some teams away from picking him. Americans have leverage with the college escape shaft and they use it all the time, a Russian has way less say as their rights are held indefinitely so good on Matvei for using a little influence in the only way he could to get a situation he wanted

 

[Steve Kournianos]

....and....you still haven't managed to adress, or even acknowledge, the elephant in the room. The anti-Russian bias against Michkov was so strong that he was drafted behind another Russian
Hey maybe i'm wrong. Dmitri Simashev is not actually Russian. He's actually Latvian? everybody loves Latvians! Has anybody told Simashev that he can't possibly be Russian?

EDIT: Just to add to that. Why do you think NHL ready Zach Benson fell to #13. One spot behind But? Whose from where?
How about Andrew Cristall at #40, or Stankoven at #50 whatever a couple years ago?
We all know nhl scouts and management teams are biased against a certain player type. If a player gets lumped in that category he's going to fall, how far is the only question. Nationality has very little to do with it.

Never said every NHL team was buying the media’s BS. Arizona under Armstrong drafted prominent Russians in 2021 and 2022. Similar to Buffalo, Carolina, among others. Simashev also was a need pick, clearly not BPA.