RW Matvei Michkov (2023, 7th, PHI) Part 4

[Kshahdoo]

Seriously guys..... can we talk about Michkov with out mentioning Reinbacher, Demidov or the Habs? Why we need to compare them? They are different player playing for different team.

I can't wait to see Michkov first game. Do you know if he is going to start the season on the first line or second line?

Flyers next objective is probably to trade/signe/draft a elite center to play with Michkov.

His first game for the Flyers will pretty possible happen on September 13 or 14, when Philadelphia rookies play vs Rangers rookies.

Michkov seems to have regressed in his D+1 compared to his D year. Looking forward to see how he does in the NHL now.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1830613830487171278

Yeah, as always when it comes to advanced stats a player has regressed in everything but goals and points, where he progressed...

 

[Baksfamous112]

Yeah, as always when it comes to advanced stats a player has regressed in everything but goals and points, where he progressed...

His passing and playmaking grossly regressed as well but he took more shots.

He did not have the puck as much on his stick as he did in his draft year. He also struggled to carry the puck into the OZ - at least much more than he used to in his draft year - meaning that either the opposing players figured out how to stop him or he got super unlucky for a long period of time

 

[HeadLiceHatty]

His passing and playmaking grossly regressed as well but he took more shots.

He did not have the puck as much on his stick as he did in his draft year. He also struggled to carry the puck into the OZ - at least much more than he used to in his draft year - meaning that either the opposing players figured out how to stop him or he got super unlucky for a long period of time

Michkov > Demidov, keep trying to grasp at anything you can.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Michkov > Demidov, keep trying to grasp at anything you can.

Not sure why you try to bring Demidov in a Michkov thread. We’re discussing a different player that regressed and is coming to NA here.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Or in his first season he played in a lot of meaningless games on a team that won 11 games? Last year, though still missing the playoffs, Sochi was more competitive.

 

[Kshahdoo]

His passing and playmaking grossly regressed as well but he took more shots.

He did not have the puck as much on his stick as he did in his draft year. He also struggled to carry the puck into the OZ - at least much more than he used to in his draft year - meaning that either the opposing players figured out how to stop him or he got super unlucky for a long period of time

Advanced stats have the same problem as a +/- stat, they don't take into account anything that is actually happening on the ice, but people somehow hate +/- but love advanced stats...

 

[FlyguyOX]

Michkov seems to have regressed in his D+1 compared to his D year. Looking forward to see how he does in the NHL now.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1830613830487171278

no pneumonia vs pneumonia

 

[Redpath]

"Advanced stats say Michkov declined in a season where he had the most productive 19 year KHL season ever, all while have pneumonia."

The straw grasping is admirable.

 

[um]

Boy this thread is sensitive. People can't talk about advanced stats anymore?

 

[HeadLiceHatty]

Advanced stats have the same problem as a +/- stat, they don't take into account anything that is actually happening on the ice, but people somehow hate +/- but love advanced stats...

Guy is a known habs troll, already put him on ignore.

 

[Redpath]

Boy this thread is sensitive. People can't talk about advanced stats anymore?

The person sharing those advanced stats has a history of bad faith slandering of Michkov in order to hype up lesser prospects.

Even so, nothing sensitive about pushing back on an advanced stat decline when Michkov had pneumonia during the season and still was highly successful otherwise.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Boy this thread is sensitive. People can't talk about advanced stats anymore?

Not more sensitive than Bedard's -44...

 

[Baksfamous112]

Advanced stats have the same problem as a +/- stat, they don't take into account anything that is actually happening on the ice, but people somehow hate +/- but love advanced stats...

It just shows that Michkov was mostly a line driver on his draft year while he relied a lot on his teammates in his D+1.

So yeah, quite the regression here.

The person sharing those advanced stats has a history of bad faith slandering of Michkov in order to hype up lesser prospects.

Even so, nothing sensitive about pushing back on an advanced stat decline when Michkov had pneumonia during the season and still was highly successful otherwise.

I didn’t make up those stats. You can either accept it or ignore it, that’s totally up to you but numbers don’t lie. It’s a big enough sample that should be taken into account and worry Philly’s fans.

I have no skin in this game. I couldn’t care less what Michkov is or become but I felt it was worthwhile to share that a top prospect regressed a lot in key metrics in his D+1

 

[Kshahdoo]

It just shows that Michkov was mostly a line driver on his draft year while he relied a lot on his teammates in his D+1.

So yeah, quite the regression here.

Nah, was Michkov a line driver or not show his teammate's stats with and without him. Quite interesting stats btw...

 

[Baksfamous112]

Nah, was Michkov a line driver or not show his teammate's stats with and without him. Quite interesting stats btw...

If a line driver doesn’t have the ability to carry the puck into the OZ on a consistant basis and is unable to properly set up his teammates then he isn’t a line driver. He’s a complimentary piece that needs a line driver to succeed.

There’s nothing wrong with being a complimentary piece. Plenty of example in the NHL of high end players who are complimentary pieces.

But it’s hard to compare Michkov to a Kaprisov or Kucherov (who are actually line dirivers) if he former isn’t one.

All these stats shows is if Michkov keep up this play, he will need a line driver on his line to be effective, which Philly doesn’t have.

 

[Kshahdoo]

If a line driver doesn’t have the ability to carry the puck into the OZ on a consistant basis and is unable to properly set up his teammates then he isn’t a line driver. He’s a complimentary piece that needs a line driver to succeed.

There’s nothing wrong with being a complimentary piece. Plenty of example in the NHL of high end players who are complimentary pieces.

But it’s hard to compare Michkov to a Kaprisov or Kucherov (who are actually line dirivers) if he former isn’t one.

All these stats shows is if Michkov keep up this play, he will need a line driver on his line to be effective, which Philly doesn’t have.

You are wrong, because a line driver is a player who makes plays for the line, either scores goals or helps to score. If a player has the best stats on the line, and other linemates have their best stats when they play with the player, then the player is a line driver.

Everything other is... well, cosmetic.

 

[FlyguyOX]

It just shows that Michkov was mostly a line driver on his draft year while he relied a lot on his teammates in his D+1.

So yeah, quite the regression here.


I didn’t make up those stats. You can either accept it or ignore it, that’s totally up to you but numbers don’t lie. It’s a big enough sample that should be taken into account and worry Philly’s fans.

I have no skin in this game. I couldn’t care less what Michkov is or become but I felt it was worthwhile to share that a top prospect regressed a lot in key metrics in his D+1

It doesn't worry me.

Like, at all.

 

[Baksfamous112]

You are wrong, because a line driver is a player who makes plays for the line, either scores goals or helps to score. If a player has the best stats on the line, and other linemates have their best stats when they play with the player, then the player is a line driver.

Everything other is... well, cosmetics.

That’s not what a line driver is. Plenty of high scoring forwards aren’t line drivers. Laine, Caufield, Reinhart, Hyman, DeBrincat to name a few are all complimentary pieces and can make plays and score goals and even be the highest scorer on their line.

All these players would not be as effective and productive if they had to carry the puck in the OZ and be the main play driver on their respective lines.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

Not sure why you try to bring Demidov in a Michkov thread. We’re discussing a different player that regressed and is coming to NA here.

Dude your trolling is so so weak . Try harder . Pretty easy to look impressive vs kids / interior comp . The kid has 2 wildly productive KHL seasons as a teen but sure “ he regressed “ lol .

 

[Kshahdoo]

That’s not what a line driver is. Plenty of high scoring forwards aren’t line drivers. Laine, Caufield, Reinhart, Hyman, DeBrincat to name a few are all complimentary pieces and can make plays and score goals and even be the highest scorer on their line.

All these players would not be as effective and productive if they had to carry the puck in the OZ and be the main play driver on their respective lines.

It's what a line driver is.

Advanced stats without actual stats mean nothing, while actual stats without advanced stats are still the most important ones.

 

[jfhabs]

Advanced stats have the same problem as a +/- stat, they don't take into account anything that is actually happening on the ice, but people somehow hate +/- but love advanced stats...

they are a lot better than +/- but the team good or bad generally have a huge influence.

 

[Baksfamous112]

It's what a line driver is.

Advanced stats without actual stats mean nothing, while actual stats without advanced stats are still the most important ones.

Name me 3 players that can’t effectively carry the puck in the OZ and can’t set up his teammates properly and isn’t playing with such a player that is either a PPG or close to being one.

I’ll wait.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Name me 3 players that can’t effectively carry the puck in the OZ and can’t set up his teammates properly and isn’t playing with such a player that is either a PPG or close to being one.

I’ll wait.

Name me a player who can dominate a game without having the puck on his stick majority of the time. Elite company.

Trying to say Michkov can't setup his teammates is pretty nutty. It's clear you didn't watch Sochi to see how their defensive shell style impacted Michkov.

 

[Kshahdoo]

they are a lot better than +/- but the team good or bad generally have a huge influence.

Not sure about a lot better, but the quality of a team is not what I mean.

I mean you can make a pass to your teammate while going for a line change, and it's a good pass. You can dump the puck, and the puck goes exactly to an opponent's goalie, and it's a shot.

You can make a bad pass and lose the puck in opponents zone just to immediately steal it (or your linemate steals it), and it's still a bad pass.

And you can miss empty nets, and it's like nothing for advanced stats, not even a shot on goal... ok maybe a giveaway (not sure do advanced stats count giveaways though).

There are tons of such moments in every game, and there are tons of other moments (like you give away the puck exactly to an opponent who was all alone in front of your goalie or make a pass to a linemate who was all alone in front of opponents' empty nets) that advanced stats don't count as something special either. These moments are probably as important (or even more) as shots on goal or good/bad passes, but you don't see them in advanced stats.

Name me 3 players that can’t effectively carry the puck in the OZ and can’t set up his teammates properly and isn’t playing with such a player that is either a PPG or close to being one.

I’ll wait.

You mean 19+22 in 47 games means a player can't set up his teammates?

 

[jfhabs]

Not sure about a lot better, but the quality of a team is not what I mean.

I mean you can make a pass to your teammate while going for a line change, and it's a good pass. You can dump the puck, and the puck goes exactly to an opponent's goalie, and it's a shot.

You can make a bad pass and lose the puck in opponents zone just to immediately steal it (or your linemate steals it), and it's still a bad pass.

And you can miss empty nets, and it's like nothing for advanced stats, not even a shot on goal... ok maybe a giveaway (not sure do advanced stats count giveaways though).

There are tons of such moments in every game, and there are tons of other moments (like you give away the puck exactly to an opponent who was all alone in front of your goalie or make a pass to a linemate who was all alone in front of opponents' empty nets) that advanced stats don't count as something special either. These moments are probably as important (or even more) as shots on goal or good/bad passes, but you don't see them in advanced stats.



You mean 19+22 in 47 games means a player can't set up his teammates?

Well advanced stats track a ton more than +/- does, that's why I said it's much better.

What you described can happen the other way as well.

All and all, a good model will have the positive and negative random incidents cancel out over a lot of tracked data.

As far as I'm concern, advanced stats are not bad, they just need to be looked at as a support to the eye test. They are not all equal either, and none can be a pure measurement of the true impact of one player in absolute. It gives an accurate depiction of X player impact in his own team, but it's not always clear if he could have the same, similar or different impact if placed in another environment.

No offense, but I think your knowledge of advance stats is a bit limited.