RW/LW Klim Kostin (2017, 31st, STL, traded to EDM)

Atas2000

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Jan 18, 2011
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Are you trying to say all good 17 year olds are held pointless in the KHL AND VHL in their first 6-8 games? Especially those who are projected top 5 picks?
I could see it if he isn't ready for the KHL as an U18 player but to be pointless in the VHL as well. Maybe he should be playing in the MHL.

I'm not trying to say, I know that 17y.olds never make the jump to grown ups level and start scoring in bunches, even if they are called Ovechkin or Malkin. Even if the VHL is a minor league he is still up against men there.

The "projected top 5 pick" is a pile of crap. What are those projections good for? At this age his development might go either way in months.

Maybe he should play in the MHL. I don't know. I'm not his coach who sees him practice and play every day.
 

Pavel Buchnevich

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He should stay in Russia, but Dynamo Moscow needs to take some responsibility for the best 2017 draft prospect in Russia playing 4th line minutes on the pro teams they run. He needs minutes, not accolades as the youngest player in the KHL or VHL.

It needs to be more than 12:27 in the VHL and more than 4:28 in the KHL. I would think a prospect the age of Kostin should be getting 14 or 15 minutes in the VHL and 10 or 11 in the KHL. If he's good enough for more than that, give him more, but it should be at least those amounts, otherwise he needs to play at a lower level. Dynamo needs to decide where he can get minutes. That can be KHL, VHL, MHL. He could probably play some role in all three leagues.
 
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covfefe

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Feb 5, 2014
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I bet he gets sent to Kootenay after he gets drafted and signs.

I'd be surprised to see him playing in Kootenay but stranger things have happened. More likely he gets dealt if he is going to play in the WHL, teams will know they'd be getting a 1 year player. A team like Kootenay probably wants to leverage Kostin's rights for futures given that they won't be contending any time soon. Kind of a mess of an organization all things considered (0 NHL picks on the roster at the moment, probably only Fleury who is drafted this year).
 

Atas2000

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Jan 18, 2011
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The reason Yakupov hasn't done well has more to do with himself and Edmonton than Sarnia.

Yeah, right...

looks up Russians who developed in the CHL versus Russians who developed in Russia

Yeah, right...lol
 

Caser

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He should stay in Russia, but Dynamo Moscow needs to take some responsibility for the best 2017 draft prospect in Russia playing 4th line minutes on the pro teams they run. He needs minutes, not accolades as the youngest player in the KHL or VHL.

It needs to be more than 12:27 in the VHL and more than 4:28 in the KHL. I would think a prospect the age of Kostin should be getting 14 or 15 minutes in the VHL and 10 or 11 in the KHL. If he's good enough for more than that, give him more, but it should be at least those amounts, otherwise he needs to play at a lower level. Dynamo needs to decide where he can get minutes. That can be KHL, VHL, MHL. He could probably play some role in all three leagues.

In theory 13 minutes of TOI in VHL should be better than 17 minutes in MHL, but it might be that MHL stint could be useful to regain some confidence. Anyway, it looks like in the next couple of weeks he will be with the U20 NT, should get a middle-six role there I think.
 

Daximus

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Yeah, right...

looks up Russians who developed in the CHL versus Russians who developed in Russia

Yeah, right...lol

Sergachev, Provorov, Radulov, Kucherov, Namestnikov, Kulikov, Abramov, Svechnikov, Trenin and Grigorenko all have played in the CHL and look fine to me. Plus you have Alexeyev, Mikhnin, Minulin, Koltygin, Poddubnyi, Popugayev, Rubinchik, Samorukov, Chekhovich, Dadadzhanov and Grishakov all in the CHL and all playing well.

I can point you to a tonne of Russian who couldn't even sniff the AHL that developed in Russia.

So yeaahh... riiiggghhhttt.

Development has a lot to do with player work ethic. Maybe guys like Yakupov and Burmistrov were just plain old lazy hence why they didn't take the steps forward that other Russian prospects with better work ethic seem to be able to do.
 

McNurse

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Sergachev, Provorov, Radulov, Kucherov, Namestnikov, Kulikov, Abramov, Svechnikov, Trenin and Grigorenko all have played in the CHL and look fine to me. Plus you have Alexeyev, Mikhnin, Minulin, Koltygin, Poddubnyi, Popugayev, Rubinchik, Samorukov, Chekhovich, Dadadzhanov and Grishakov all in the CHL and all playing well.

I can point you to a tonne of Russian who couldn't even sniff the AHL that developed in Russia.

So yeaahh... riiiggghhhttt.

Development has a lot to do with player work ethic. Maybe guys like Yakupov and Burmistrov were just plain old lazy hence why they didn't take the steps forward that other Russian prospects with better work ethic seem to be able to do.

Questioning Yakupovs work ethic is highly unnecessary, the guy was one of the hardest workers on that dumpster fire
 

Daximus

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Questioning Yakupovs work ethic is highly unnecessary, the guy was one of the hardest workers on that dumpster fire

Sometimes having on ice work ethic and heavy training work ethic are different. I've seen lots of guys that give it every shift but just don't use the off season to their advantage to take the necessary steps forward. Not saying that is what Yakupov did or didn't do but it may be a reason he couldn't put it all together.
 

Atas2000

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Jan 18, 2011
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Sergachev, Provorov, Radulov, Kucherov, Namestnikov, Kulikov, Abramov, Svechnikov, Trenin and Grigorenko all have played in the CHL and look fine to me. Plus you have Alexeyev, Mikhnin, Minulin, Koltygin, Poddubnyi, Popugayev, Rubinchik, Samorukov, Chekhovich, Dadadzhanov and Grishakov all in the CHL and all playing well.


So yeaahh... riiiggghhhttt.

You know what? It gets really boring to repa the same stuff. You can rigg your "stats" however you want.

The best way for Kostin to come back to him is to stay in Russia. Dynamo is a good team to be and develop on. In due time he can go to NA as a complete player.
Call me when those are all NHL stars.

Alexeyev, Mikhnin, Minulin, Koltygin, Poddubnyi, Popugayev, Rubinchik, Samorukov, Chekhovich, Dadadzhanov and Grishakov

Same goes for Sergachev, Svechnkov(btw the older Svechnikov doesn't look anything close to what he was in Russia already), Abramov and Trenin btw. Let's stay with the facts. And facts are players who are already past juniors.

So now to your typical NA rigging of that CHL vs. Russia argument.

Right away playing a couple of games in the CHL doesn't mean being developed by the CHL. Those players you mentioned also played in russian junior leagues, so whose product are they now?

1.Provorov is a special case. He left Russia very early, way earlier than it normally happens. It worked out for him. I'm fine with it. He is a Russian who is american/canadian trained basically. In the times of the huge development trouble with defencemen in Russia I will take it gladly, but his case proves nothing in our discussion, bacause then we'd have to talk about kids leaving Russia right after elementary school. That's not something that is going to happen often.

2.In a different manner same applies to Namestnikov. There is definitely not going to be a discussion about the sheer ability of both systems do develop hockey players. So the curious case of Russians failing to develop in the CHL is not due to some systemic failure of the CHL. It is obviously that culture difference. Not only the most talked about culture shock, but the diffrence in hockey culture and even more so the change of hockey culture they have to make at a very important age. Namestnikov was born in the US. In a way it was much easier for him to accomodate both sytales of hockey as he moved from the US to Russia and back again. It's the guys like Provorov and Namestnikov(and Radulov) that prove the opposite of your claim because they rae the exceptions from the rule. They aren't Russians who start their development in Russia and then leave at age 17-18 and continue developing in NA. Their path is different.

3.Radulov broke his contract and all that, yes. But he came back to Russia where he completed his development and became a very russian style type of player. He also left btw because something wasn't really working for him in the NHL. I'm pretty ure he wouldn't become the player he is now if he stayed with the Preds then.

4.Kucherov has played around 30 games in the CHL and 3 full seasons in the MHL. He is alos the most talented player of a couple of birth years in the world. Those will always be successful, even with a stone to their ankles. Whether his stint in the CHL heped or hindered him is quite a question. It is mypersonal opinion and nothing else, that he'd be better for with CSKA for that time span.

5.That is even more obvious for Grigorenko(Kucherov's linemate in Russia) who nearly ruined his career with his jump to NA. He is coming around barely this time, but he will never be close to his projected ceiling before he left.

6.Kulikov is nowhere near what he was talked about at draft day. I don't see how he is a story of success. While as mentioned before, there are probelms in Russia with developing defencemen, so I won't go out and claim he would become a great defenceman in Russia now.


I can point you to a tonne of Russian who couldn't even sniff the AHL that developed in Russia.

What is that even good for? There is aton of Canadians who never made the AHL. So what? We're talking about top-prospects. We all know the guys who ultimately make it in the NHL or KHL too are the pinnacle of a huge amount of players who never reach the levels.

And I can point you to every single russian star in the NHL. They all developed in Russia. There has to be a system to that.

Development has a lot to do with player work ethic. Maybe guys like Yakupov and Burmistrov were just plain old lazy hence why they didn't take the steps forward that other Russian prospects with better work ethic seem to be able to do.

Well, then there seems to be a problem with the CHL again. It somehow seems to influence their work ethic. Not serious her. To question Yakupov's work ethic is just ridiculous. I also know Burmistrov fairly well as a fellow guy from Kazan. Work ethic was never his problem. He was just made to "change his style" for no good.
 
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Daximus

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I have a feeling this is going to devolve into a Canadian vs Russian player debate and we all know how those turn out. Let's just agree to disagree.
 

Steve Kournianos

@thedraftanalyst
Kostin has been a dominant force internationally. He's not a generational talent, so it's silly to think he was going to light up the senior league like Bure or Ovechkin.

Don't look at stats. He was promoted to the KHL because he deserved it. Dynamo Moscow is a brand. They don't just give ice time to players because they are some hyped prospect. They need to win now while developing players with long-term goals.
They know he'll be in the NHL in 3-4 years, so the quicker they get him used to the KHL, the quicker he'll become a contributor regardless of whether it 2 years or 10.

This is how the Russians groom their youngsters and thus far their system has worked pretty well.

He'll be at the CHL Super Series and is almost guaranteed to make himself noticeable.
 

Atas2000

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Jan 18, 2011
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I have a feeling this is going to devolve into a Canadian vs Russian player debate and we all know how those turn out. Let's just agree to disagree.

It can't be a Canadian vs. Russian player debate. We're not even talking about Canadians. Only Russians and where they develop best.
 

Daximus

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It can't be a Canadian vs. Russian player debate. We're not even talking about Canadians. Only Russians and where they develop best.

I will say this. I find it odd that Finns, Czechs, Swedes, German, Swiss and Danish players can all come over and develop well in the CHL. Yet for some reason people think it's the CHL's fault that a few Russian's have a hard time. We know Russians can adapt well to the NA game so I still find it hard to believe that the CHL is making certain Russian players worse. While other Russians and players from all over Europe are developing well there. Including the vast majority of the top Canadians and some of the top Americans in the world.
 

Pavel Buchnevich

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You know what? It gets really boring to repa the same stuff. You can rigg your "stats" however you want.

The best way for Kostin to come back to him is to stay in Russia. Dynamo is a good team to be and develop on. In due time he can go to NA as a complete player.
Call me when those are all NHL stars.



Same goes for Sergachev, Svechnkov(btw the older Svechnikov doesn't look anything close to what he was in Russia already), Abramov and Trenin btw. Let's stay with the facts. And facts are players who are already past juniors.

So now to your typical NA rigging of that CHL vs. Russia argument.

Right away playing a couple of games in the CHL doesn't mean being developed by the CHL. Those players you mentioned also played in russian junior leagues, so whose product are they now?

1.Provorov is a special case. He left Russia very early, way earlier than it normally happens. It worked out for him. I'm fine with it. He is a Russian who is american/canadian trained basically. In the times of the huge development trouble with defencemen in Russia I will take it gladly, but his case proves nothing in our discussion, bacause then we'd have to talk about kids leaving Russia right after elementary school. That's not something that is going to happen often.

2.In a different manner same applies to Namestnikov. There is definitely not going to be a discussion about the sheer ability of both systems do develop hockey players. So the curious case of Russians failing to develop in the CHL is not due to some systemic failure of the CHL. It is obviously that culture difference. Not only the most talked about culture shock, but the diffrence in hockey culture and even more so the change of hockey culture they have to make at a very important age. Namestnikov was born in the US. In a way it was much easier for him to accomodate both sytales of hockey as he moved from the US to Russia and back again. It's the guys like Provorov and Namestnikov(and Radulov) that prove the opposite of your claim because they rae the exceptions from the rule. They aren't Russians who start their development in Russia and then leave at age 17-18 and continue developing in NA. Their path is different.

3.Radulov broke his contract and all that, yes. But he came back to Russia where he completed his development and became a very russian style type of player. He also left btw because something wasn't really working for him in the NHL. I'm pretty ure he wouldn't become the player he is now if he stayed with the Preds then.

4.Kucherov has played around 30 games in the CHL and 3 full seasons in the MHL. He is alos the most talented player of a couple of birth years in the world. Those will always be successful, even with a stone to their ankles. Whether his stint in the CHL heped or hindered him is quite a question. It is mypersonal opinion and nothing else, that he'd be better for with CSKA for that time span.

5.That is even more obvious for Grigorenko(Kucherov's linemate in Russia) who nearly ruined his career with his jump to NA. He is coming around barely this time, but he will never be close to his projected ceiling before he left.

6.Kulikov is nowhere near what he was talked about at draft day. I don't see how he is a story of success. While as mentioned before, there are probelms in Russia with developing defencemen, so I won't go out and claim he would become a great defenceman in Russia now.




What is that even good for? There is aton of Canadians who never made the AHL. So what? We're talking about top-prospects. We all know the guys who ultimately make it in the NHL or KHL too are the pinnacle of a huge amount of players who never reach the levels.

And I can point you to every single russian star in the NHL. They all developed in Russia. There has to be a system to that.



Well, then there seems to be a problem with the CHL again. It somehow seems to influence their work ethic. Not serious her. To question Yakupov's work ethic is just ridiculous. I also know Burmistrov fairly well as a fellow guy from Kazan. Work ethic was never his problem. He was just made to "change his style" for no good.

Very good post. I read the whole thing, and I agree.

I'm not Russian, I'm American, but people from NA need to realize that the best way for Russians to develop is different from the best way for North Americans to develop, and even different from the best way for Swedes, Finn's, etc to develop.
 

Daximus

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Very good post. I read the whole thing, and I agree.

I'm not Russian, I'm American, but people from NA need to realize that the best way for Russians to develop is different from the best way for North Americans to develop, and even different from the best way for Swedes, Finn's, etc to develop.

They are all hockey players looking to play in the NHL though. Good players should be able to develop in the CHL regardless of where they were born. It mimics the NHL more than any other Junior league. Why would Russians be the only players who can't grasp the NA game at the NA junior levels? And if they can't why is that the CHLs fault? Maybe these guys were just never going to be as good at the NA game as they would have been in Russia.
 
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