Rumor: Rutherford lays out the blueprint of what the Canucks are looking for via Trade

[gdsmack267]

Does he honestly think they are still in the playoff race? They're already like 5-6 points out. The Pens won like 20 of 22 games and only moved up like 2 spots at the time. Not being a seller at the deadline would be a mistake by Rutherford

 

[Ryder71]

The Canucks currently do not have retention on anyone.

edit: my apologies you're right. Found it.

 

[Breakers]

LOLOL

2nd last in points percentage for the division
13th in points percentage in the conference

same idiotic short term thinking as Benning if he is talking about playoffs.
Kick that can down the road

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

Does he honestly think they are still in the playoff race? They're already like 5-6 points out. The Pens won like 20 of 22 games and only moved up like 2 spots at the time. Not being a seller at the deadline would be a mistake by Rutherford

It's probably a negotiation tactic. The offers aren't good enough, yet.

 

[Boondock]

But they are on the hook for three players due to buyouts and a recapture penalty on Luongo. So, they're still paying for three players. Not sure if that counts against that number or not.

I assumed those were the 3 contracts you were thinking about. Those aren't retention spots - 2 x buyouts and a cap recapture. Benning wasn't just incompetent one way, he could screw up the Canucks cap lots of ways....

 

[Ryder71]

What kind of return do you guys look for for Boeser (if he's moved)?

 

[orby]

If the Pens were to acquire Boeser, I would imagine that means at the very least that Bryan Rust would not be re-signed. I don't really think they'd entertain trading for him at all unless they already know that's going to happen.

 

[UrbanImpact]

What kind of return do you guys look for for Boeser (if he's moved)?

1st- mid pick- prospect

 

[kanucks25]

What kind of return do you guys look for for Boeser (if he's moved)?

General needs are picks and prospects of any kind, immediate needs are bottom-6 C and RD.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Rutherford just did a 30 minute interview on Sportsnet 650 Vancouver.

Firstly, he made it abundantly clear... The Canucks will not be trading any major pieces ala Miller/Boeser as long as the Canucks are in the mix for the playoffs.

It really sounds like the Canucks are leaning towards not doing their major roster surgery until the offseason. This is a smart move to me as I believe if they wait until summer, the auction for Miller would grow 2/3x more with interested teams. Canucks can also allow a potentail trading team to negotiate a new contract with Miller which will boost his value even more.

Of course all this can change if and once:

1. The Canucks fall out of the race, if they havent yet already
2. They get an offer they cant refuse

As for what the Canucks are looking for at the trade deadline or in the off-season

Rutherford was very clear on what he wants the identity of the Canucks to be. Speed and Skill. He was asked why he prefers that over Size and Brute, he mentioned in a perfect world he would have it all but he believes that the game has trended towards speed and skill. He also mentioned he doesnt just want speed skaters on the team that cant actually think and play hockey which is why the skill part is important with the speed.

Rutherford also mentioned something interesting:

- He believes the forward group is an "Average Skating" group and relies on a couple of players to create offence. He mentioned this is not what he wants. He wants to get faster and more skilled and have a more balanced attack and use that speed t create puck pressure.It really sounds like he is going to shake the forward group up.

- More surprisingly, he mentioned that he believes the D-core he has is something " he can work with" He mentioned building around Hughes and OEL.

- It sounded like Rutherford believes the Canucks arent competing until 2024 and he will be making trades now that reflects that time frame.

To Summarize

- Miller/Boeser any big fish not getting moved until Canucks are out of playoff race
-Rutherford does not like the skating abilities with the Canucks forward Group (uh oh Boeser)
- In a trade Canucks want young players with Speed and Skill and or draft picks
- In a big trade, Canucks might be prioritizing a young speed/skill Forward as the main return as Rutherford really sounded dejected by the Forward group where at least he said the Dcore is something he can work with


Kinda funny when blatantly asked what Rutherford thought of the team after 2 months into the job. He mentioned something along of the lines of :

" We are not good but our Franchise Goalie hides alot of our shortcomings"


Trader Jim about to cut loose!

Really dumb since trading miller in the off season means the other team loses out on one playoff run. Also, the Canucks aren't doing anything this season anyways.

 

[UrbanImpact]

Really dumb since trading miller in the off season means the other team loses out on one playoff run. Also, the Canucks aren't doing anything this season anyways.

Already explained why waiting till off-season can generate a better return for the Canucks.

Will repost here:

"The sole fact that there would be a bigger market and more interested teams wanting Miller in the - offseason compared to now would off-set any boost in value of a team getting 2 playoff runs with him.

and like I mentioned, in the offseason, The Canucks can allow potential trading partners to negotiate an extension with him before the trade is finalized which again would boost his value. Something a trading team cant do now ( sign extension)"

 

[Love]

I’m glad he said our forwards can’t skate. Been saying this for years. This is partially why I wanted Virtanen to work out here so badly. Obviously he didn’t and it’s for the best. But, to me this confirms what some of us have been speculating: Boeser and Pearson are as good as gone. They just don’t have the foot speed JR is looking for in top 9 forwards. He already traded Pearson once I don’t see why he wouldn’t do it again.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Already explained why waiting till off-season can generate a better return for the Canucks.

Will repost here:

"The sole fact that there would be a bigger market and more interested teams wanting Miller in the - offseason compared to now would off-set any boost in value of a team getting 2 playoff runs with him.

and like I mentioned, in the offseason, The Canucks can allow potential trading partners to negotiate an extension with him before the trade is finalized which again would boost his value. Something a trading team cant do now ( sign extension)"

Your whole reasoning is based on what? How do you know there would be more teams looking at Miller in the offseason for 1 year rather than basically 1.5 years (for a team looking to make deep playoff run). We've already seen the market for players with term left and dealt near the deadline and it's pretty bustling - just go look at the last two deadlines.

IMO would be very silly to keep Miller. He's playing extremely well right now and I don't think his value will ever be higher.

 

[Avs44]

Already explained why waiting till off-season can generate a better return for the Canucks.

Will repost here:

"The sole fact that there would be a bigger market and more interested teams wanting Miller in the - offseason compared to now would off-set any boost in value of a team getting 2 playoff runs with him.

and like I mentioned, in the offseason, The Canucks can allow potential trading partners to negotiate an extension with him before the trade is finalized which again would boost his value. Something a trading team cant do now ( sign extension)"

If you Canucks fans generally prefer trading Miller in the offseason then fair enough -- not really the concern of any other fanbase.

But I can't say I agree with either of the two justifications you just raised. Why is it a given that potential buyers will be keener on Miller in the offseason than they are now? He's a prime-aged player with a great cap hit having a career season. That should be his main selling point IMO (particularly the cap hit for contenders with limited space). And if that's the main selling point, then the teams that will be most interested in Miller, both now and in the offseason, will be...contenders. AKA, the exact same group of teams. And contenders would rather have two playoff runs than one, clearly. It's not like there's going to be a huge market of bottom-feeders and fringe teams 2-3 years out from competing clamoring for Miller in the offseason. The Canucks are one of those teams, actually -- which is why they're the ones willing to trade Miller.

As for the second point...how much is that actually a perk? How many of the parties interested in Miller will actually want to re-sign the guy, at the cap hit he's likely (understandably) going to be looking for? He's been underpaid for the past few years. It would make complete sense if he wants to just get paid in 1.5 year's time. But the teams that will presumably be most interested in him in a trade (contenders), are typically short on cap space and might not be too keen to be the ones handing out a big 7-8 year extension at a maximized cap hit to a player who will be 30 by the time his next contract kicks in. I see Miller as someone very similar to Kadri, who is also prime aged, has been underpaid for years, and is having a season of a lifetime. I expect the teams that go hardest after Kadri when he likely hits UFA (because the Avs, and other top contenders like them, can't afford Kadri if he wants to maximize his earnings) will be fringe teams. So, IMO, the teams most likely to want to sign Miller in 1.5 years, and that will have the means to do, so will be relatively fringe / currently rebuilding teams that won't want to be the ones to pay up for him in a trade this offseason.

Just my opinion. I don't think Miller's value will get higher than it is now. If I was a Canucks fan I'd personally be hoping Rutherford is just being a savvy veteran GM right now and putting some of this out there so that nobody else thinks he has to sell -- while still having every intention of selling off Miller if he doesn't see him in the Canucks' long term plans.

 

[strattonius]

If you Canucks fans generally prefer trading Miller in the offseason then fair enough -- not really the concern of any other fanbase.

But I can't say I agree with either of the two justifications you just raised. Why is it a given that potential buyers will be keener on Miller in the offseason than they are now? He's a prime-aged player with a great cap hit having a career season. That should be his main selling point IMO (particularly the cap hit for contenders with limited space). And if that's the main selling point, then the teams that will be most interested in Miller, both now and in the offseason, will be...contenders. AKA, the exact same group of teams. And contenders would rather have two playoff runs than one, clearly. It's not like there's going to be a huge market of bottom-feeders and fringe teams 2-3 years out from competing clamoring for Miller in the offseason. The Canucks are one of those teams, actually -- which is why they're the ones willing to trade Miller.

As for the second point...how much is that actually a perk? How many of the parties interested in Miller will actually want to re-sign the guy, at the cap hit he's likely (understandably) going to be looking for? He's been underpaid for the past few years. It would make complete sense if he wants to just get paid in 1.5 year's time. But the teams that will presumably be most interested in him in a trade (contenders), are typically short on cap space and might not be too keen to be the ones handing out a big 7-8 year extension at a maximized cap hit to a player who will be 30 by the time his next contract kicks in. I see Miller as someone very similar to Kadri, who is also prime aged, has been underpaid for years, and is having a season of a lifetime. I expect the teams that go hardest after Kadri when he likely hits UFA (because the Avs, and other top contenders like them, can't afford Kadri if he wants to maximize his earnings) will be fringe teams. So, IMO, the teams most likely to want to sign Miller in 1.5 years, and that will have the means to do, so will be relatively fringe / currently rebuilding teams that won't want to be the ones to pay up for him in a trade this offseason.

Just my opinion. I don't think Miller's value will get higher than it is now. If I was a Canucks fan I'd personally be hoping Rutherford is just being a savvy veteran GM right now and putting some of this out there so that nobody else thinks he has to sell -- while still having every intention of selling off Miller if he doesn't see him in the Canucks' long term plans.

There's no market for a 2 yr rental like Miller. He is priced out.

If Vancouver waits till the off season there will be more fish in the sea, so to speak. Lots of GMs gets devilish on improving their roster cause 'anything can happen' and all of a sudden there's 5 teams bidding on Miller driving his price up. Voila! His value is now almost the same as it was when only 1 team pitched for Miller last year.
Obviously that's hypothetical but it's a more realistic understanding of how the market will work for trading Miller. It's solid reasoning why Vancouver should maybe hold Miller - he ain't going for that dumbass lundkvist, chytil, 2nd garbage.

 

[VancouverJagger]

Rutherford just did a 30 minute interview on Sportsnet 650 Vancouver.

Firstly, he made it abundantly clear... The Canucks will not be trading any major pieces ala Miller/Boeser as long as the Canucks are in the mix for the playoffs.

It really sounds like the Canucks are leaning towards not doing their major roster surgery until the offseason. This is a smart move to me as I believe if they wait until summer, the auction for Miller would grow 2/3x more with interested teams. Canucks can also allow a potentail trading team to negotiate a new contract with Miller which will boost his value even more.

Of course all this can change if and once:

1. The Canucks fall out of the race, if they havent yet already
2. They get an offer they cant refuse

As for what the Canucks are looking for at the trade deadline or in the off-season

Rutherford was very clear on what he wants the identity of the Canucks to be. Speed and Skill. He was asked why he prefers that over Size and Brute, he mentioned in a perfect world he would have it all but he believes that the game has trended towards speed and skill. He also mentioned he doesnt just want speed skaters on the team that cant actually think and play hockey which is why the skill part is important with the speed.

Rutherford also mentioned something interesting:

- He believes the forward group is an "Average Skating" group and relies on a couple of players to create offence. He mentioned this is not what he wants. He wants to get faster and more skilled and have a more balanced attack and use that speed t create puck pressure.It really sounds like he is going to shake the forward group up.

- More surprisingly, he mentioned that he believes the D-core he has is something " he can work with" He mentioned building around Hughes and OEL.

- It sounded like Rutherford believes the Canucks arent competing until 2024 and he will be making trades now that reflects that time frame.

To Summarize

- Miller/Boeser any big fish not getting moved until Canucks are out of playoff race
-Rutherford does not like the skating abilities with the Canucks forward Group (uh oh Boeser)
- In a trade Canucks want young players with Speed and Skill and or draft picks
- In a big trade, Canucks might be prioritizing a young speed/skill Forward as the main return as Rutherford really sounded dejected by the Forward group where at least he said the Dcore is something he can work with


Kinda funny when blatantly asked what Rutherford thought of the team after 2 months into the job. He mentioned something along of the lines of :

" We are not good but our Franchise Goalie hides alot of our shortcomings"


Trader Jim about to cut loose!

That pretty much sounds like the end of Boeser's time in Vancouver..........Pearson, Boeser bye bye - totally fine with that as well - probably easier to trade Boeser in the offseason when a team can negotiate a contract with him.

 

[UrbanImpact]

If you Canucks fans generally prefer trading Miller in the offseason then fair enough -- not really the concern of any other fanbase.

But I can't say I agree with either of the two justifications you just raised. Why is it a given that potential buyers will be keener on Miller in the offseason than they are now? He's a prime-aged player with a great cap hit having a career season. That should be his main selling point IMO (particularly the cap hit for contenders with limited space). And if that's the main selling point, then the teams that will be most interested in Miller, both now and in the offseason, will be...contenders. AKA, the exact same group of teams. And contenders would rather have two playoff runs than one, clearly. It's not like there's going to be a huge market of bottom-feeders and fringe teams 2-3 years out from competing clamoring for Miller in the offseason. The Canucks are one of those teams, actually -- which is why they're the ones willing to trade Miller.

As for the second point...how much is that actually a perk? How many of the parties interested in Miller will actually want to re-sign the guy, at the cap hit he's likely (understandably) going to be looking for? He's been underpaid for the past few years. It would make complete sense if he wants to just get paid in 1.5 year's time. But the teams that will presumably be most interested in him in a trade (contenders), are typically short on cap space and might not be too keen to be the ones handing out a big 7-8 year extension at a maximized cap hit to a player who will be 30 by the time his next contract kicks in. I see Miller as someone very similar to Kadri, who is also prime aged, has been underpaid for years, and is having a season of a lifetime. I expect the teams that go hardest after Kadri when he likely hits UFA (because the Avs, and other top contenders like them, can't afford Kadri if he wants to maximize his earnings) will be fringe teams. So, IMO, the teams most likely to want to sign Miller in 1.5 years, and that will have the means to do, so will be relatively fringe / currently rebuilding teams that won't want to be the ones to pay up for him in a trade this offseason.

Just my opinion. I don't think Miller's value will get higher than it is now. If I was a Canucks fan I'd personally be hoping Rutherford is just being a savvy veteran GM right now and putting some of this out there so that nobody else thinks he has to sell -- while still having every intention of selling off Miller if he doesn't see him in the Canucks' long term plans.

Canucks have reportedly made it a 3-4 piece return if anyone wants Miller right now.

Clearly they arent getting those demands met otherwise they would have Miller already.

So really what is the diference were talking about if he gets traded now or in the summer?

He will get a 1st round pick, yes
He will get a top prospect yes
He will get a mid round pick/ B level prospect

IMO these 3 are guaranteed whether he gets traded now or in the summer.

So basically the difference is what you think a contending team is willing to add now to those 3 assets compared to in the summer. I dont think the difference is that big.

Id rather risk it and keep him until off-season and open up the bidding to everyone instead of just playoff teams.

Of course this is all moot if a team wants to overpay for him now then so be it. Anything short of an offer Rutherford cant refuse then he should hang on to him until off-season.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

I was looking at the dead cap players and the buyout on Luongo. That's three players they're still on the hook for. I'm not sure if that would prohibit them from retaining on another.

Nope nothing to do with retaining. We still have 2 players we can retain on.

 

[SEALBound]

So basically, JR gets on and says "We are going to use the basic blueprint that helped me and the Penguins win back-to-back Cups" and people are upset with this...why?

 

[StIvany4Norris]

Boeser for Kap + 1st and/or prospect

Would be a fine starting point from my perspective

Pens could use an upgrade on Rust/ERod for the Kessel spot on PP1

 

[UrbanImpact]

That pretty much sounds like the end of Boeser's time in Vancouver..........Pearson, Boeser bye bye - totally fine with that as well - probably easier to trade Boeser in the offseason when a team can negotiate a contract with him.

Canucks can allow a potential trading team to negotiate an extension with him now.

 

[AlaBlueShirt]

Sounds like Rutherford playing hardball with the Rangers for Miller and wants more than just Schnieder, 2023 1st, Chytil and 2022 2nd. Lets getter done Trader Jim!

Yes we will add Laf and Kravtsov.
Also replace the 2022 2nd with first.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Already explained why waiting till off-season can generate a better return for the Canucks.

Will repost here:

"The sole fact that there would be a bigger market and more interested teams wanting Miller in the - offseason compared to now would off-set any boost in value of a team getting 2 playoff runs with him.

and like I mentioned, in the offseason, The Canucks can allow potential trading partners to negotiate an extension with him before the trade is finalized which again would boost his value. Something a trading team cant do now ( sign extension)"

There is no "fact" that the number of teams will increase in the offseason versus trade deadline. The number of other options including teams signing UFAs will also come up too. The only fact is that the receiving team loses out on a playoff run. Miller can also get an extension from a team who trades him during this deadline since they would have him during the offseason. Rutherford needs to pick a direction for his team asap and right now it just sounds like he doesn't know which way it will go. Canuck's best option for long term success if they choose to part of Miller is retain salary trade this deadline. Otherwise, keep him. Letting him get closer to UFA is stupid.

 

[UrbanImpact]

Boeser for Kap + 1st and/or prospect

Would be a fine starting point from my perspective

Pens could use an upgrade on Rust/ERod for the Kessel spot on PP1

late first and or a meh prospect in addition to Kap isnt enough for Boeser imo.

Would you rathe have tofolli at 4.2 at 30 yrs old or Boeser at 6mil for 6 years ( ballpark of new contract) at 24 years old?

IMO any Boeser return will be worth more than what CGY paid for TT.

 

[57special]

Would be so nice to have a GM who prioritizes speed and skill

If you look around the league:

Colorado
Tampa
Minnesota
Florida

All play fast and skilled hockey. GMs who don't want to go this route should be out of a job

Tampa, FL and MN can also play "heavy" games, too. The best teams can win in multiple ways... I recall TBL "overpaying" for grit a few years ago when it became evident that going all skill didn't cut it in the playoffs.

As always, simplistic, one note solutions lacking nuance are never the way to go when building a hockey team.