Olympics: Russia possibly disqualified from Pyeongchang (UPD: IOC Suspends Team Russia)

[Macman]

Is there a single proof Russian government is directly responsible?

The IOC and WADA were given thousands of documents, spreadsheets and hard drives from the Moscow lab, including emails between the lab and the Ministry of Sport that showed they were in charge of the program.

 

[Zybalto]

The IOC and WADA were given thousands of documents, spreadsheets and hard drives from the Moscow lab, including emails between the lab and the Ministry of Sport that showed they were in charge of the program.

Id like to see a detailed account of how they got those lids off. You had to do some detective work to see the tool impressions left behind.

When Rodchenkov said "We are high level cheaters...." it was an amazing moment. He was coming clean and was upset but he was almost bragging as well.

 

[Xokkeu]

The Olympics should never have gone to Sochi in the first place. They only beat Pyeongchang for 2014 by 4 votes (51-47), and I’d have to believe there was some funny business involved between Putin/Russia/IOC. What resulted was a $50 billion price tag to stage a Winter Olympics, when it doesn’t even cost $10 billion to stage a Winter Olympics. Vancouver 2010 cost $7 billion, and Turin 2006 cost $3 billion. We know where that $50 billion went.

Had the IOC gone to Pyeongchang in 2014 and Munich in 2018, all of what happened today could have been avoided because Putin would never have had a reason to cheat in 2014.

Turin, Vancouver have stadiums and infrastructure. Sochi had none. Plenty of corruption sure, but really who cares it's Russian tax payer money, but unless you saw the before and after of Sochi you wouldn't realize the building that was done.

 

[Zalos]

They might not all be doping but it's well know that a very high percentage of them are. Just an embarrassment to that country.

Dude, you, like others, are dreaming and totally biased if you think your own athletes are not doping themselves too. Everyone who has the money and the resources to do it will definitely dope themselves in any way possible. This goes as far back as Greek times.

This whole situation reeks of hypocrisy. Sure, the Russians got caught and will pay the price, but everyone need to stop acting like their country is clean. That is ridiculous. Personally, I don't care because every country that can compete is doping so they end up being on the same footing.

The only sad part is how athletes from poor countries have to compete against doped adversaries. But, eh, that's life I suppose. If only people were at least real enough to admit it. It takes too much humility I suppose. Pride rules the world. That is why it is going downward.

 

[sandysan]

Dude, you, like others, are dreaming and totally biased if you think your own athletes are not doping themselves too. Everyone who has the money and the resources to do it will definitely dope themselves in any way possible. This goes as far back as Greek times.

This whole situation reeks of hypocrisy. Sure, the Russians got caught and will pay the price, but everyone need to stop acting like their country is clean. That is ridiculous. Personally, I don't care because every country that can compete is doping so they end up being on the same footing.

The only sad part is how athletes from poor countries who have to compete against doped adversaries. But, eh, that's life I suppose. If only people were at least real enough to admit it. It takes too much humility I suppose. Pride rules the world. That is why it is going downward.

so everyone is doping but only the russians had to return 1/3 of their medals. I'm just curious, how does that work ? if they are on the same footing, how come the USA isnt being prevented from participating in korea ? And its a curious position to do something you know is impermissable, get caught and then say that there should be no consequences because you are convinced ( contrary to the evidence) that everyone else doing it and that belief alone absolves you of your bad act.

in before " western conspiracy"

Are there non russian dopers ? sure. just not nearly as many of them.

 

[MisterNoItAll]

I dont think you have actually studied the scope of this.

This isnt just the entire Russian under-18 team getting banned for doping.

Were talking more than 1000 Russian athletes between 2011-2015. Systemic doping with full knowledge and participation of the state. This isnt generalizing an entire country when the country has cheating as its official position. 30-50% of all Russian medalists were implicated based on which event was being held.

I would hold off stigmatizing the athletes as much as the state in this though as we do not know who was complicit or who was bullied into doing this. All I know is that if this was happening in my country, public outcry would be so massive that the government would probably fall within a week.

The proof is so damning, people that are defending this are really starting to look ridiculous. I'd rather have the rest of the sports world angry at me but happy I am cleaning up my house versus what we are seeing. Tin foil hat conspiracies and laughable denials combined with a complete lack of accountability.

If the Russian government (and apparently most of the Russian comments I see) want to drive the final nail into the coffin of this generation of Russian athletes as cheaters and liars, they are free to do so but history will not kind to them.

......and one more thing on the IOC (an organization of which I am not a fan), it would be faaaaaaaaaar harder to pull off a credible conspiracy of this scope than for it to have actually happened the way all the evidence says it happened. A little self reflection would be important here......or do you think all Russian whistleblowers should be shot like "Stalin would have done" as was said by the honorary President of Russia's Olympic committee.

This is insanity and its hard to fathom those who would defend it.

Who cares? The IOC is corrup body, just like FIFA, they should be the last ones judging morality. Furthermore, you think Russia is the only country to cheat? Almost everyone cheats, either they haven’t been caught or their protected.

The ethics in sports has been lost a long time ago.

 

[Jussi]

Dude, you, like others, are dreaming and totally biased if you think your own athletes are not doping themselves too. Everyone who has the money and the resources to do it will definitely dope themselves in any way possible. This goes as far back as Greek times.

This whole situation reeks of hypocrisy. Sure, the Russians got caught and will pay the price, but everyone need to stop acting like their country is clean. That is ridiculous. Personally, I don't care because every country that can compete is doping so they end up being on the same footing.

The only sad part is how athletes from poor countries have to compete against doped adversaries. But, eh, that's life I suppose. If only people were at least real enough to admit it. It takes too much humility I suppose. Pride rules the world. That is why it is going downward.

Please list all posters who say their country doesn't have athletes who use doping AND evidence that all other countries have a state run doping program.

 

[Zybalto]

Who cares? The IOC is corrup body, just like FIFA, they should be the last ones judging morality. Furthermore, you think Russia is the only country to cheat? Almost everyone cheats, either they haven’t been caught or their protected.

The ethics in sports has been lost a long time ago. Sports today are used for political, profit and entertainment gains.


The IOC is a tool for the international political forum. Western Liberals, most notably Americans are doing everything in their power to drive Russia’s reputation into the ground, any way they can.

You, again, are underplaying the scope here. Yes, all countries cheat but its not endorsed by the state in any way. These actions have set back Russia's reputation in sport a generation at least and I'm not even getting to the worst of it. This could be just the start. Rodchenkov says that this goes back to 1968. All the great memories of Russian sport could be irreparably damaged. The Summit Series, all those great soviet teams in the 70s and 80s could be implicated. This is a disaster. You can take all of the doping scandals in the history of the western world and it doesn't come close to this. Injecting 15 year olds, doping up blind weightlifters who might not know what was going on.......I shouldnt have to continue. You have to also realize that Russia is getting off rather light here. The IOC could have taken this way further.

The whole reason Canada spearheads these types of investigations is that the collective shock of the Ben Johnson incident forced us to look inward and enforce ultra tight controls on doping. It was a national embarrassment and we treated it as such. The lack of Russians who think along these terms is vary troubling and plays right into the very stereotypes being pushed by the western press....[MOD]

As for the IOC and WADA, they HAD to do something. The Russian program made them look like fools and theres a lot of high paying jobs on the line over there. They are corrupt as hell but no one is going to bribe back their reputation....and is FIFA going to want to sink further in the reputation department by working with Mutko on the World Cup?

In the end, only Russia can fix this. And by Russia, I mean the Russian people.

 

[Fantomas]

Rodchenkov says a lot of things. Maybe the IOC should have taken his word about the 1968 medals too and taken those away. After all, why not - they call him a truthful individual.

Also the U18 team withdrew from a tournament because of meldonium and calling meldonium doping is absurd. WADA so badly mishandled the meldonium situation that it had to backtrack on the harshness of many of the penalties. They themselves even admitted that they didn't know how long it took for the drug to leave an athlete's system.

Nevertheless the team still had to withdraw.

 

[Tomas W]

Yeah its not like Russia/Soviets history is giving them any benefit of doubt here. Russia need to be CLEAN for a decade or so now to start to gain some kind of trust.

 

[Xokkeu]

Why punish athletes? Uh nobody is getting punished unless you think it's so horrible that they can't wear a Russian eagle and sing the Soviet anthem. Which of course means you never cared about the athete or sport anyway.

 

[jvr32]

It's such a shame that every expert around the world (or the west lol) who think the evidence is conclusive is just simply against Russia and they have allied to go out to get the them.

 

[Tomas W]

Who cares? The IOC is corrup body, just like FIFA, they should be the last ones judging morality. Furthermore, you think Russia is the only country to cheat? Almost everyone cheats, either they haven’t been caught or their protected.

The ethics in sports has been lost a long time ago.

Someone got to be worst, and it looks like its Russia.

I dont exactly mistrust the Russian hockey team though,, havent been much incidents when them from what I recall.

 

[Icarium]

Being from a former Eastern bloc country I really don't like the Russian government, past or present but I am sure many will call me a Russian shill anyway. Are the Russians cheating on a massive scale? You bet they are but so is everyone else. If you think the Russians are doped to the gills yet other countries dominate most sports by never taking any banned substances you probably believe in Santa Claus too. Russians are just terrible at hiding their actions and are under more scrutiny. My country, Bulgaria, has had similar problems with doping, and keeps having them even after the government stopped being involved directly in most sports. You don't need a massive government conspiracy to cheat on a massive scale, though I am sure it helps. In short, I think the Russians were banned not because they were any more doped than the rest but because they didn't hide it as well as the rest and because they attracted more scrutiny.

Russian sport could be irreparably damaged. The Summit Series, all those great soviet teams in the 70s and 80s could be implicated.

What do you mean, it's common knowledge that all Eastern bloc countries doped their athletes as a matter of course in those years. And all those great Soviet team were cheating anyway because they pretended to be amateurs (again, just like all to[ Eastern bloc athletes).

 

[LiveeviL]

As it seems Russian players can play (but not under Russian flag). KHL could state that they play during the Olympics so that it is up to the tams to release players. You can then bet that they withhold non-Russians and let the Russian stars go to the Olympics. Perhaps not that important for NA, but for example Finland (mostly) and Sweden it will hurt.

 

[Jablkon]

Being from a former Eastern bloc country I really don't like the Russian government, past or present but I am sure many will call me a Russian shill anyway. Are the Russians cheating on a massive scale? You bet they are but so is everyone else. If you think the Russians are doped to the gills yet other countries dominate most sports by never taking any banned substances you probably believe in Santa Claus too. Russians are just terrible at hiding their actions and are under more scrutiny. My country, Bulgaria, has had similar problems with doping, and keeps having them even after the government stopped being involved directly in most sports. You don't need a massive government conspiracy to cheat on a massive scale, though I am sure it helps. In short, I think the Russians were banned not because they were any more doped than the rest but because they didn't hide it as well as the rest and because they attracted more scrutiny.



What do you mean, it's common knowledge that all Eastern bloc countries doped their athletes as a matter of course in those years. And all those great Soviet team were cheating anyway because they pretended to be amateurs (again, just like all to[ Eastern bloc athletes).

Maybe but this is mostly about breaking up into the laboratories.thats whole kind of another level. Not every former eastern block country has such issue with dope imo.

 

[Macman]

If Russians are feeling demonized and humiliated by this, then do something about it instead of blaming everyone else. Demand changes to your sports system. Do Russians truly believe that all of this is made up? I doubt it, but it seems to be more important to them to not be embarrassed in the world's eye than to actually fix things.

 

[Jussi]

If Russians are feeling demonized and humiliated by this, then do something about it instead of blaming everyone else. Demand changes to your sports system. Do Russians truly believe that all of this is made up? I doubt it, but it seems to be more important to them to not be embarrassed in the world's eye than to actually fix things.

If this sort of thing had happened in any other European country, the public would be calling for the heads of people in charge of this and who allowed it. They would blame the government for using tax payer money for it, tarnishing the reputation of the country, not to mention human rights and politicizing athletes. When the doping scandal of the 2001 Lahti cross country skiing World Championships happened, Finnish public was not kind towards the skiing federation and the coaches and personnel involved. Some of the coahes involved then have been cleared to coach again after sercving their sentences but many people are not okay with it.

 

[BalticWarrior]

Why punish athletes? Uh nobody is getting punished unless you think it's so horrible that they can't wear a Russian eagle and sing the Soviet anthem. Which of course means you never cared about the athete or sport anyway.

This right here is the reason why many Russians call it "embarrasment" or "humiliation" because to alot of them sports is just an extension of their nationalism, the hoooraah patriotism where they can fell better about themselves, thats why KHL is so poorly attended but national team games are always a sellout and the most talked about thing when it comes to hockey. Most hockey fans in Russia dont actually care about hockey.

 

[Fantomas]

This right here is the reason why many Russians call it "embarrasment" or "humiliation" because to alot of them sports is just an extension of their nationalism, the hoooraah patriotism where they can fell better about themselves, thats why KHL is so poorly attended but national team games are always a sellout and the most talked about thing when it comes to hockey. Most hockey fans in Russia dont actually care about hockey.

LOL. Let's have your national team stripped of their symbols and see how you react.

 

[Xokkeu]

LOL. Let's have your national team stripped of their symbols and see how you react.

Wouldn't care

 

[BalticWarrior]

LOL. Let's have your national team stripped of their symbols and see how you react.

My country doesnt participate in state-sponsored doping, so we dont have that problem.

 

[Fantomas]

Wouldn't care

Most people in your country would, random person on the Internet.

 

[Xokkeu]

Most people in your country would, random person on the Internet.

No I think if the CIA got busted trying to break in to doping labs and cheat most of us would probably blame them and not the IOC for catching us

 

[Fantomas]

if the CIA got busted

Good christ. Who the heck would bust the CIA, Thor?