I'd still bet alot team GTHL could beat Switzerland bad (and a lot of other teams) in a 7 game series. McDavid, Tavares, Stamkos, Seguin, Neal, Subban, and Pietriangelo, is a hell of a foundation. And Czech's are less talented than the Russians, they had a terrible down cycle for awhile where the only top line guy they produced in a long gap was Voracek. Guys like Pastrnak, Vrana, Zacha, etc may change this though.
Russia is the weakest team in the top 6 NT?
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Conspiracy Theorist
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Conspiracy Theorist
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In some cases Sweden is harder opponent for Finland than Canada because Sweden has better defense. But Swedish goalies are the worst and their offense is not very good on 5v5.
This is the argument that always comes out sounding like THE GREAT CANADIAN EXCUSE every year. Yes, McDavid and Ekblad are great players, particularly Ekblad, but to say this or that would happen if they were there is pure speculation, and mostly fantasy. I can say that in the games they played against Russia in the WJC, they were mostly non-factors. Ekblad played in 2014, when Russia eliminated Canada from medal contention, and McDavid played last year. McDavid had a nice goal when he was left alone on a bad line change, but other than that, the Russians shut him down.
You are free to dream and fantasize, but the fact is that humans don't make massive improvements in athletic skill or ability in that short a period of time. The Russians have always more or less been the equal of the guys Canada dresses for the tournament. That's all you can ask of them.
So your actually saying the difference between a 17 year old and a 19 year old doesn't matter. Why aren't guys peaking in the league at 18 then? or why did not bring 17 year olds you hype like Rubstov or even 15 year old Svetchnikov if it doesn't matter? Actually one of the dumbest things I've read here in awhile. And incase you lost count 3 golds to 1 in the last decade.
JackSlater
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Of course everyone knows that at the junior age even one year can be massive, otherwise 16 year olds would be quite common at the WJC and players would rarely improve their performances from year to year. That wouldn't be convenient to admit, though to be fair the reality of Canada being generally by far the most disadvantaged team at the WJC has little to do with whether or not Russia has the weakest team in the top six.
OEL
Hedman
Karlsson
Klingberg
Hjalmarsson
Lindholm
Strålman
Kronwall
Edler
Klefbom
Brodin
Larsson
Ekholm
Enström
etc..
I'd say our defence is at least on par with Canada's.
Our top-3 is at least. Then we have the emerging superstar in Lindholm, who'll be insanely good in a couple of years.
How would you rate these defencemen on a list?
Also, Lindholm is already better than both Klingberg and Edler, and just as good as Hjalmarsson and Strålman. If not better.
Adam Larsson has also become a stud shutdown defenceman.
jj cale
Registered User
The best because of that offense?
Where are the wins in the olympics then? or even the third places?
How can anyone entertain the thought that Russia is the best?
Russia is certainly not the weakest, but it is a proven fact they are not the best.
A proven fact.
Good point A guy who won the Calder at 18 and was an NHL All-Star probably wouldn't have made a difference this year in the WJHC. Or a guy who is a PPG in the NHL at 18, he likely would have been really contained by the step up to the WJHC.
Much better to base what they would do based on your observations of how they played in single games against Russia when they were 17.
As for the second part I have shown how Canada has won more Golds (almost twice as many since they started sending all-star teams) as Russia/Soviets, so no Russia hasn't been the equal of the guys Canada dresses.
I don't think they are the weakest but it isn't like the other countries are sending chopped liver.
Canada with Crosby-Tavares-Benn-Toews-Stamkos have better top end talent and light years better secondary scoring as well.
This BS that Russia has the best offense is a joke. Its Canada and really if we are being honest and not just nice it isn't all that close.
Bear12Good
Registered User
Bear12Good
Registered User
Ovechkin-Kuznetsov-Tarasenko-Kusherov-Malkin-Panarin much weaker ?
Nobody argues that Canada's strong line of attack only in Russia, it is not as weak as you think!
The fact is, it just reeks of being THE GREAT CANADIAN EXCUSE. I'll give you this, of the two, I think Ekblad would be the one to make the greater impact, but there is just no physiological evidence to suggest that a kid who matured at any early age anyway would be capable of greatly increasing his hockey performance over a period of 18 months. Plus, Ekblad is a defenseman, and since when does an individual defenseman other than Bobby Orr or Slava Fetisov dominate a game and change the outcome. It is not evident that Ekblad has that capability.
Its pure fantasy and speculation that a team would do better if this guy or that guy is there or not. The bigger question has to be: how is it that Canada, with an 8-1 advantage over Russia in total number of players and 6-1 advantage in number of indoor rinks (see IIHF website) can finish 6th just because 3 or 4 guys weren't there? Why is it that the availability of 2 or 3 guys will sink Canada's chances? That suggests that the quality of the product doesn't match the size of the investment!
JackSlater
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I'm amazed that you believe that players cannot significantly improve between their teenage years. Literally all evidence contradicts you. Funny that you even specifically mention physiology when that (strength) is clearly one of the main points. When you talk about McDavid, it's also like you don't know that he tied for the tournament scoring lead as a 17 year old. I doubt you've seen McDavid play a game that wasn't against Russia.
It's absurd to suggest that most players don't improve, and in many cases significantly so, as teenagers. I doubt you could find even one person to agree with the statement. None of that means that Canada would automatically win a tournament with McDavid, Ekblad and company though. It does mean that Canada, just like any other country, would be significantly better every year with access to all of its best players.
Sensinitis
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Sensinitis
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Canada has
Keith
Ekblad
Weber,PK
Giordano
Brodie
Doughty
Petroangelo
Boumester
I can go all day
habsrule4eva3089
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I think Canada has one more Olympics being in their own tier before the playing field is more level. 2018 might be their greatest team yet, but following that World Hockey will completely change. The depth that other countries are getting will even everything out a little more.
jj cale
Registered User
Russia has the best line of attack after Canada it is a fact.
I agree, after Canada it does,
The point thrown out by some is that is has the best offense, it doesn't though.
It has the second best.
But it isn't an excuse because even with missing these guys we still are the best. The only point that missing these guys has is that we would blow everyone out of the water.
Plus it is not an excuse, it is FACT.
The fact that you are seriously trying to argue that an NHL All-Star and the best 18 year old in the world who is scoring in the NHL at a PPG wouldn't make a difference in this tournament is ridiculous. These guys are excelling against NHL competition but couldn't do the same against much weaker competition?
If you want evidence of defensemen having a difference on this tournament go back and take a look at the Canadian defensive pairs that have played the whole tournament with no ES goals scored against them. A shut down pair can do wonders, especially at this level where guys will play 30+ minutes a game.
JackSlater
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Canada has lost with everyone available, and some years the players that are missing actually aren't that significant.
If I remember correctly, Canada played with all available players at the 2013 WJC (NHL lockout year) and failed to win a medal.
What makes you think that Sweden has better defence? The last gold-medal game in Sochi?
Lol. If you checked the NHL scoring, Benn and Seguin are top 3 since the season started, while Crosby, even though having a bad start, is the best player in the world. Just by the way, Benn won the Art Ross last year. So a line with Benn-Crosby-Seguin is for sure up there with Ovechkin-Malkin-Tarasenko, and is better, if you look how they actually produce in the NHL.
Kovalchuk and Datsyuk are still good players, but none of them are the same as 4 years ago. I can confidentally say that a duo of Stamkos-Toews is better.
Kuznetsov, other top forward, can be easily matched with Tavares, a player that was a Hart nominee last year and close to win the Art Ross.
Panarin is having a great season, but I could name McDavid or MacKinnon (both much younger) that are seemingly better, even though not available for Team Canada's World Cup roster.
You say Panarin and Kucherov, I'll say Hall and Perry.
You say Radulov, I'll say O'Reilly.
You say Anisimov, I'll say Bergeron.
You say Mozyakin, I'll say Giroux.
We can go on and on. It really isn't nowhere being close, and if someone can't see that, than is living on a different planet probably.
We can afford to have Hall or Perry in the fourth line or even to not have them in the team. Russia can't afford something similar with Panarin or Kucherov, and they are worse players than Hall and Perry. Russia also can't miss a player like Datsyuk or Ovechkin and not be affected. Datsyuk was probably the best forward for Russia in Sochi. Canada played without Tavares and Stamkos in the final two games in Sochi.
Of course, when factoring the actual games, there is really no argument whatsoever. For those that value the russian offence so much, what do you have to say about the 2015 WHC final? Russia played with Ovechkin, Malkin, Tarasenko, Panarin, Kulemin, Anisimov, Kovalchuk and the "great" superstars of KHL in Mozyakin, Tikchonov, Plotnikov, Zaripov, or Shipachyov - that's arguably 9 of 13 best russian forwards. They really missed only 4 forwards of the best-on-best roster (Datsyuk, Kuznetsov, Radulov, and Kucherov). Still, they managed to have 7 shots in the entire first 40 minutes of the gold-medal game on what was far from the best canadian defence, and were completely outplayed even by our 4th line that scored 2 goals (Ennis-Couturier-Toffoli-Eakin).
All in all, considering both results and on paper, russia having better offence than Canada is really a total BS.
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