Russia is the weakest team in the top 6 NT?

[Theokritos]

Your statements about Anisimov and Kulemin appear to conflict with what you have said in previous posts. You have talked about Russia allegedly having a "roster advantage" in the World Championships to explain why Russia's recent success in the WC's should be discredited and not taken seriously.

Now, suddenly, you are saying that Kulemin and Anisimov wouldn't have a chance of making the Canadian Olympic roster.

That's the difference right there. Alleged mystery solved.

 

[Balance]

Benn is not better than Radulov, Benn simply plays on a great offensive team and it inflates his stats.

 

[kyle44]

Benn is not better than Radulov, Benn simply plays on a great offensive team and it inflates his stats.

I don't know if you realize that Benn won the Art Ross last year when Dallas wasn't having near the success they are now. Benn doesn't produce excess offence because of his team; rather the Stars produce offence because of Benn. Its like saying Ovechkin only tallies a large number of points because he plays with Backstrom, Kuznetsov, Oshie etc..

 

[moropanov]

Russia is Weak not much stronger overall than Czech people dont realise how bad theyr defense really is they are much worser than in paper... Norway has better defense than Russia on ice. Russia forwards overall are good, but overrated one dimensional and have joke players like Ovechkin along

 

[1Gold Standard]

This is pretty funny. First off, your ignorance to who Fabbri and Bennett are is irrelevant - they were Canada's two best eligible forwards for this tournament (McDavid was injured). Of course a team is going to be significantly worse off without its best players. That is almost as funny as your attempt to brush off Ekblad and McDavid. You're really going to attempt to downplay the impact of players, in a junior tournament, based on their performances as 17 year-olds? The idiocy there is obvious.



You have no evidence for your claim. Since Canada started sending legitimate teams to the WJC no country has been more successful in Europe than Canada. I do agree with the general idea that Canada needs to be better at the WJC though.



This has been explained to you numerous times. If you are unable to understand, I feel sympathy for you. If you are willfully ignorant, then I admire your determination.

In any event, I will explain it again - Russia gets a much larger percentage of its optimal roster at the World Championships than any other country does. Hence the "advantage" that has been described to you numerous times. That Russia's depth is poor enough for Anisimov or Kulemin to make a best on best roster has nothing to do with the percentage that Russia gets at the World Championship every year. The issue is that Russia is going into the tournament with roughly 50% of its best roster, while other countries have less than 20%. Simple concept.



I'll clarify for you - when I said this decade, I was referring to tournaments since 2010. In the last 10 tournaments, the period you are referencing, Canada has missed 50 players, for an average of 5 per tournament. For the sake of comparison, Russia has missed 5 players in the last decade due to NHL commitments. Canada has missed ten times as many players at the WJC as Russia has in just the last decade. I'm sure none of the 50 would have made any difference though.

and you forgot to mention, that despite that particular set of circumstances, Canada has still managed a 4 to 1 advantage in gold medal winning performances over those past 10 tournaments than our friends from the former USSR... And with the additional bonus, for Canada and Canadians anyway, 5 of those tournaments were hosted in Europe, and not the 80% Canada home-ice advantage the poster claimed earlier. Myth debunked Again. but I'm sure the same B.S. myth will pop up again in other threads. It never seems to go away.

 

[Atas2000]

I did say it and I stand by it you can point to talent and no one can deny the talent but results matter and the results don't lie. In pro tournament s that matter Russia has failed and that is a fact.

Ever heard of sample size? Short tournaments with eliminations games are worth nothing if you want to compare teams. Let the national teams play a full season against eachother and Russia will score 200 more goals than any other team. Even with a crappy D they wouldn't finish last. Results of elimination games don't lie. they are just results of single games. When was the last time a Stanley Cup Championship team hasn't lost a game in the playoffs?

 

[Atas2000]

I don't know if you realize that Benn won the Art Ross last year when Dallas wasn't having near the success they are now. Benn doesn't produce excess offence because of his team; rather the Stars produce offence because of Benn. Its like saying Ovechkin only tallies a large number of points because he plays with Backstrom, Kuznetsov, Oshie etc..

Still, put Radulov on a line with Seguin and he will produce similar numbers to Benn at least.

 

[JackSlater]

Results of elimination games don't lie. they are just results of single games. When was the last time a Stanley Cup Championship team hasn't lost a game in the playoffs?

This is something that most people don't grasp. These tournaments produce results, but they don't prove anything.

 

[kabidjan18]

Still, put Radulov on a line with Seguin and he will produce similar numbers to Benn at least.

Terrible, terrible reasoning this whole thread against Jamie Benn. Benn is good because he plays on a line with a player who scores consistently less than him, at least try to argue Seguin feeds off of Benn. Also you have no way to prove that claim about Radulov. The KHL is not the NHL you can't assume he will produce the same or similar stats. You can note yes that Artemi Panarin only had a stat drop from 62 in 54 to 47 in 54 and try to create some optimal ratio formula but for every ratio dropper like Panarin you get a complete bust like Steve Moses who was almost ppg in the KHL and couldn't make it in the AHL. At last appearance Radulov was decent in the NHL, a good solid player, but nothing approaching what Jamie Benn is, and until he stops playing teams like Dinamo Riga or Podolsk there's no reason to merely assume he would be more amazing than the best scorer in a better league.

 

[Love]

Benn is not better than Radulov, Benn simply plays on a great offensive team and it inflates his stats.

Still, put Radulov on a line with Seguin and he will produce similar numbers to Benn at least.

This thread is absolutely legendary. I gotta bookmark this one for sure.

 

[Atas2000]

This thread is absolutely legendary. I gotta bookmark this one for sure.

Yep, legendary HF stubborness to believe the usual narratives on HF. The bad bad defector, lazy Russian Radulov is playing in the inferior league and by no means can be as good as the Hero Benn. Never change, HF.

 

[jj cale]

Yes indeed never change HF.

The only place you can go where you can claim Radulov is as good or better then an Art Ross winner.

 

[kabidjan18]

Yes indeed never change HF.

The only place you can go where you can claim Radulov is as good or better then an Art Ross winner.

Retweet

 

[moropanov]

Russia doesnt have enough speed to compete in top tournaments... Ok forwards have decent speed because they are like frankenstein monster's freaks of nature, but Russia's development program way they train destroy's theyr speed. Average Russian player is very slow skater because they train with wrong habits for hockey in Russia.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

I'd take Russia's offense over Canada's any day of the week.

That defense though...

I'd take Canada's offense. Top 6 forwards are a wash, but the bottom 6 for Canada is way better. Add in Canada's significantly superior defense that can also contribute offensively, and it seems obvious Canada is the better offensive team.

 

[Yakushev72]

This is pretty funny. First off, your ignorance to who Fabbri and Bennett are is irrelevant - they were Canada's two best eligible forwards for this tournament (McDavid was injured). Of course a team is going to be significantly worse off without its best players. That is almost as funny as your attempt to brush off Ekblad and McDavid. You're really going to attempt to downplay the impact of players, in a junior tournament, based on their performances as 17 year-olds? The idiocy there is obvious.



You have no evidence for your claim. Since Canada started sending legitimate teams to the WJC no country has been more successful in Europe than Canada. I do agree with the general idea that Canada needs to be better at the WJC though.



This has been explained to you numerous times. If you are unable to understand, I feel sympathy for you. If you are willfully ignorant, then I admire your determination.

In any event, I will explain it again - Russia gets a much larger percentage of its optimal roster at the World Championships than any other country does. Hence the "advantage" that has been described to you numerous times. That Russia's depth is poor enough for Anisimov or Kulemin to make a best on best roster has nothing to do with the percentage that Russia gets at the World Championship every year. The issue is that Russia is going into the tournament with roughly 50% of its best roster, while other countries have less than 20%. Simple concept.



I'll clarify for you - when I said this decade, I was referring to tournaments since 2010. In the last 10 tournaments, the period you are referencing, Canada has missed 50 players, for an average of 5 per tournament. For the sake of comparison, Russia has missed 5 players in the last decade due to NHL commitments. Canada has missed ten times as many players at the WJC as Russia has in just the last decade. I'm sure none of the 50 would have made any difference though.

Do you even realize that what you are saying makes no sense at all? Do you understand that when you say "Russia's depth is poor enough so that Anisimov and Kulemin are able to make a best on best roster has nothing to do with the advantage that Russia gets at the World Championship every year" is totally nonsensical? Its really a weak excuse, and a really pathetic attempt to make an indefensible point , to say that, in effect, "yes, you had Anisimov and Kulemin and Tikhonov and Shipachyov and Dadonov and Panarin and Zaripov and Kovalchuk and and Plotnikov and Mozyakin at forward, and, you had Belov and Kulikov and Chudinov and Mironov and Yakovlev and Mironov and Antipin on defense, and that represents a huge roster advantage over teams like Canada that just have a lot of "B" team NHL players.

Which of the players that I have listed do or would rank in the top 10 in the NHL at their position? And, if they don't rank in the top 10, explain why you judge their presence to represent a "huge roster advantage" over the rest of the World? Keep in mind, this roster finished in 3rd place in their preliminary round group behind the United States and Finland, and through sheer guts and determination advanced to the Gold Medal game. If your response is that they had Malkin and Tarasenko, and Ovechkin for the last 2 games (less than 30 hours after he skated off the ice from Game 7 of a Stanley Cup semifinal series), that's a really sorry excuse to explain why Canada doesn't win the WC every single year, which should be a minimum expectation.

 

[namttebih]

If you don't put Czech Republic in the top group you have to put them into their own. We are pretty much a elevator team that can flip both ways in the future (Get again into top group or continue the decline)



I don't think it is a team of 3rd liner grinders, but saying Sweden needs that offense to be the best...is laughable. Maybe in the future, when the Puljujarvi, Laine etc. grow up, but definitely not now.

I really hope that the Czech Republic program can rebound. They were always my favourite team if they weren't playing Canada growing up.

It seems as though Germany has really taken a step back the last few years. I was hoping that they would follow in the Swiss' footsteps while not exactly contenders, weren't worried about relegation every tournament.

I could care less about the development in the southern States (no offence) I'd rather see programs built up in Europe so that best on best tournaments are more competitive. If the Swiss, Czech and Slovaks could truly make it an elite 8 and teams like the Danes, Latvia, Belorus and Germany can win more games against the elite 8, talent streaming into the pro leagues would improve drastically.

 

[Yakushev72]

Yes indeed never change HF.

The only place you can go where you can claim Radulov is as good or better then an Art Ross winner.

You say this as if to say "are you kidding? Radulov as good as Benn?" Think what you want, but I'll take Radulov over Benn any time. In Sochi, for example, Radulov was clearly the 2nd best Russian player, a little bit behind Datsyuk, but clearly better than Ovechkin, Malkin, Kovalchuk, and Tarasenko in that tournament. I doubt that any Russian hockey fan would argue with that. Aside from being just as skilled as any other Russian forward, Radulov has more guts, fight, fierceness and energy and emotion than any other Russian forward. He is just a beast out there, and he fears nothing or no one! Benn hasn't accomplished anything yet. Of the two, I'll choose Radulov.

 

[Yakushev72]

This is something that most people don't grasp. These tournaments produce results, but they don't prove anything.

Of course I agree with your point here, but why do you keep saying that Russia's successes in other venues (WC, WJC) must be discounted because they haven't done well in the Olympic Games of late? That is inconsistent with your correct point that the Olympic Games produce a result but don't prove anything? For example, since the NHL started coming to the Olympics, Russia and Canada have only met twice in 5 Olympics, and are tied 1-1. This is hardly an adequate sample size to match up the 2 teams.

 

[kyle44]

You say this as if to say "are you kidding? Radulov as good as Benn?" Think what you want, but I'll take Radulov over Benn any time. In Sochi, for example, Radulov was clearly the 2nd best Russian player, a little bit behind Datsyuk, but clearly better than Ovechkin, Malkin, Kovalchuk, and Tarasenko in that tournament. I doubt that any Russian hockey fan would argue with that. Aside from being just as skilled as any other Russian forward, Radulov has more guts, fight, fierceness and energy and emotion than any other Russian forward. He is just a beast out there, and he fears nothing or no one! Benn hasn't accomplished anything yet. Of the two, I'll choose Radulov.

I have no affinity to either player, but how exactly can you say a player that has an Olympic gold medal, an Art Ross trophy, a world junior championship and three all star appearances hasn't accomplished "anything"? He is also three years younger. Not taking anything away from Radulov (he has always been one of my favourite Russian players) as he has tons of accolades, but to say Benn has accomplished nothing is asinine.

 

[jj cale]

Of course I agree with your point here, but why do you keep saying that Russia's successes in other venues (WC, WJC) must be discounted because they haven't done well in the Olympic Games of late? That is inconsistent with your correct point that the Olympic Games produce a result but don't prove anything? For example, since the NHL started coming to the Olympics, Russia and Canada have only met twice in 5 Olympics, and are tied 1-1. This is hardly an adequate sample size to match up the 2 teams.

He has won an art Ross trophy in the best hockey league in teh world and is generally considered one of the best players in the world and he hasn't accomplished anything?

Where do you dream up this stuff?

p.s: brought up the wrong quote but i'm sure you know I am talking about your opinion on Benn.

 

[Bear12Good]

He has won an art Ross trophy in the best hockey league in teh world and is generally considered one of the best players in the world and he hasn't accomplished anything?

Where do you dream up this stuff?

p.s: brought up the wrong quote but i'm sure you know I am talking about your opinion on Benn.

If Radulov played in the NHL, he could win the Art Ross
Radulov better Malkin and Ovechkin and this means that he is better Benn

 

[kabidjan18]

If Radulov played in the NHL, he could win the Art Ross
Radulov better Malkin and Ovechkin and this means that he is better Benn

At first this "Radulov, ooh, my love!" stuff was cute but now it's gone a little too far.

The leading PPG player in the Sochi games, the leading goalscorer in the tournament and the leading point scorer after the group stage was MICHAEL GRABNER! You tell me, how many of ya'll Russians think that the best offensive forward in the world is MICHAEL GRABNER! A big fat ZERO people think MICHAEL GRABNER is the best forward in the world. Other than a few games under a coach who had no idea how to allocate ice time, you have no reason to believe that Malkin and Ovechkin are actually worse than Radulov AND EVEN IF YOU DID HAVE EVIDENCE, it wouldn't matter because no one can say with any sort of assurance that Malkin and Ovechkin are better than Benn either. No one includes statistics (Benn is leading both in scoring) by the way which you Radulov enthusiasts don't seem to be trying to use many of, like PPG, and ART ROSS TROPHIES.

Also there is no conclusive evidence to suggest that Radulov would be the Art Ross trophy winner either. Take a BEST CASE EXAMPLE, Artemi Panarin, who scored 62 points in 54 KHL games last season and 47 in 54 NHL games so far, clips of 1.148 and .8703 so if we do the math he's scoring .7581 of what he scored in the KHL, translate Radulov's statistics right now in the KHL he has a 1.24 clip to Panarin's standard of NHL stats he would have 50.76 or roughly translated to 51 points. That puts him 23 points off the Art Ross trophy leader, 7 points of JAMIE BENN, and in 7th place behind Joe Pavelski who has a solid 51 points in points scored. AND THAT'S A BEST CASE SCENARIO. As I mentioned earlier, Steve Moses was almost PPG in the KHL with 57 points in 60 games, and has 14 in 17 this year after returning from a stint with the AHL in which he scored 7 WHOLE POINTS in 16 games. You have NO IDEA Radulov will be an Artemi Panarin, he could just as easily be a Steve Moses. When in the NHL in the past Radulov wasn't anywhere NEAR PPG except in his last season a short 9 game stint with the Preds he scored 7 points so with a tiny sample size he had a .777 clip that would put him at 42 points on the season so far which is WAY DOWN THERE on the list of scoring leaders. The KHL isn't only not on par with the NHL, look at Steven Siego from Riga, he scored 14 points in 53 games in Liiga last year or a .264 clip, this year with Riga he has 19 points in 51 games which is a .372 clip, which is more than a 10 percent increase in scoring. Look at Pekka Jormukka, 25 in 59 last year in Liiga, 30 in 52 this year for Jokerit, .424 and .576 in other words more than a 15 percent increase from going to the KHL from Liiga. Many times when a player goes from the NHL to the KHL it looks something like Brandon Kozun, 4 points in 20 NHL games, .200 clip, 42 points in 53 games, .792 clip. Peter Regin is one of many players doing significantly better in the KHL than the AHL. Maybe some here don't watch KHL so they don't know, I doubt Canadians do but I watch most Riga games, and the teams towards the bottom of the table are downright awful, and they don't provide competition not only for top KHL teams but also probably for top MHL teams. All this to say, Radulov has a cute beard, he's got a nasty little grin, and I wouldn't mind seeing him in the NHL some day but I won't let my feelings or whatever get in the way of objectively seeing that Radulov is not better than last year's Art Ross Trophy winner and probably not one of the top 6 forwards in the world.

 

[Bear12Good]

At first this "Radulov, ooh, my love!" stuff was cute but now it's gone a little too far.

The leading PPG player in the Sochi games, the leading goalscorer in the tournament and the leading point scorer after the group stage was MICHAEL GRABNER! You tell me, how many of ya'll Russians think that the best offensive forward in the world is MICHAEL GRABNER! A big fat ZERO people think MICHAEL GRABNER is the best forward in the world. Other than a few games under a coach who had no idea how to allocate ice time, you have no reason to believe that Malkin and Ovechkin are actually worse than Radulov AND EVEN IF YOU DID HAVE EVIDENCE, it wouldn't matter because no one can say with any sort of assurance that Malkin and Ovechkin are better than Benn either. No one includes statistics (Benn is leading both in scoring) by the way which you Radulov enthusiasts don't seem to be trying to use many of, like PPG, and ART ROSS TROPHIES.

Also there is no conclusive evidence to suggest that Radulov would be the Art Ross trophy winner either. Take a BEST CASE EXAMPLE, Artemi Panarin, who scored 62 points in 54 KHL games last season and 47 in 54 NHL games so far, clips of 1.148 and .8703 so if we do the math he's scoring .7581 of what he scored in the KHL, translate Radulov's statistics right now in the KHL he has a 1.24 clip to Panarin's standard of NHL stats he would have 50.76 or roughly translated to 51 points. That puts him 23 points off the Art Ross trophy leader, 7 points of JAMIE BENN, and in 7th place behind Joe Pavelski who has a solid 51 points in points scored. AND THAT'S A BEST CASE SCENARIO. As I mentioned earlier, Steve Moses was almost PPG in the KHL with 57 points in 60 games, and has 14 in 17 this year after returning from a stint with the AHL in which he scored 7 WHOLE POINTS in 16 games. You have NO IDEA Radulov will be an Artemi Panarin, he could just as easily be a Steve Moses. When in the NHL in the past Radulov wasn't anywhere NEAR PPG except in his last season a short 9 game stint with the Preds he scored 7 points so with a tine sample size he had a .777 clip that would put him at 42 points on the season so far which is WAY DOWN THERE on the list of scoring leaders. The KHL isn't only not on par with the NHL, look at Steven Siego from Riga, he scored 14 points in 53 games in Liiga last year or a .264 clip, this year with Riga he has 19 points in 51 games which is a .372 clip, which is more than a 10 percent increase in scoring. Look at Pekka Jormukka, 25 in 59 last year in Liiga, 30 in 52 this year for Jokerit, .424 and .576 in other words more than a 15 percent increase from going to the KHL from Liiga. Many times when a player goes from the NHL to the KHL it looks something like Brandon Kozun, 4 points in 20 NHL games, .200 clip, 42 points in 53 games, .792 clip. Peter Regin is one of many players doing significantly better in the KHL than the AHL. Maybe some here don't watch KHL so they don't know, I doubt Canadians do but I watch most Riga games, and the teams towards the bottom of the table are downright awful, and they don't provide competition not only for top KHL teams but also probably for top MHL teams. All this to say, Radulov has a cute beard, he's got a nasty little grin, and I wouldn't mind seeing him in the NHL some day but I won't let my feelings or whatever get in the way of objectively seeing that Radulov is not better than last year's Art Ross Trophy winner and probably not one of the top 6 forwards in the world.

Moses is much better Panarin

 

[jj cale]

If Radulov played in the NHL, he could win the Art Ross
Radulov better Malkin and Ovechkin and this means that he is better Benn

He already did play in the NHL.

He never won it.