Russia have 1 gold in 10 years in World Juniors
- Thread starter Eye of Ra
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despite the fact that the KHL is still the second strongest league in the world, Russia has lost quite a bit of steam, and probably aren't the second best hockey nation anymore. USA is second. And quite frankly, they're falling back and probably on par with Sweden. With countries like Finland catching.
This things can have ebbs and flows, but Russia has for sure gotten significantly weaker over the last decade.
Overall medaled 9 times in the last 10, possibly 10 out of last 11 - unreal result considering US and Canada medaled only 6 times in the same period. Lack of gold sucks though.
TheBeastCoast
Registered User
Nobody really cares about Silver and Bronze medals.
IceHockeyDude
Registered User
In a short tournament the level of coaching and team spirit are underlined. These factors have a big influence on the resent success of the Finns.
stastny12
Registered User
Suomi is arguably the strongest hockey nation in Europe at the moment, so I would not use this wording.
Turin
Registered User
- Feb 27, 2018
- 25,088
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Russia basically only deals in superstar forwards now, and it’s been that way for a while.
Oilslick941611
Registered User
It has been clear in the last decade and maybe a little before that while Russia is producing great players they do not produce great teams. Also they can’t seem to get for the big games and seem to crumble under the pressure and crumble under a decent forecheck/physical gameplan. They need Space and time to win and if you are able to slow them down and hit them they seem to falter.
Depends how you look at it.
Previous to these games, they've medaled 9 times in 10 years. If they win today it's 10 in 11. Canada only has 7 in 11. The US 6. Sweden 5. Finland 3. 4 if they win today.
That's remarkable high level consistency considering anybody can win in a single elimination game.
Previous to these games, they've medaled 9 times in 10 years. If they win today it's 10 in 11. Canada only has 7 in 11. The US 6. Sweden 5. Finland 3. 4 if they win today.
That's remarkable high level consistency considering anybody can win in a single elimination game.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
Probably because Sweden has choked more than Russia.
Eye of Ra
Grandmaster General of the International boards
we havent in this last 10 years if we count gold. russia have 1 gold, so does sweden.
It's more to do with emergence of Finland that Russia. Even Sweden isn't doing that well
Finland has really upgraded their program, even without much talent like this year's team, they are still contenders.
Russia almost produces superstars or nobody. They don't have the depth like they once did. Finland for example, every year there's a balance between forwards group and defensemen. Russian teams are whether top heavy with forwards or top heavy with D.
Finland has really upgraded their program, even without much talent like this year's team, they are still contenders.
Russia almost produces superstars or nobody. They don't have the depth like they once did. Finland for example, every year there's a balance between forwards group and defensemen. Russian teams are whether top heavy with forwards or top heavy with D.
irunthepeg
Board man gets paid
Weird. It doesn't even feel like it's been that bad for them. 2011 still haunts my dreams.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
A lot of it has to do with the unbeaten record in the round robin coupled with the medal results.
If a team wins the President's Trophy every year and then never wins the Stanley Cup, people are going to ask questions.
Well, lots of teams do. It is kind of a choice - do you take a team with one SC in 20 years but then miss many playoffs or you consistently prefer to fight in the playoffs? Some people prefer consistency. But yeah, there is no excuse for not winning - there is more and more pressure every year.
The Devilish Buffoon
Registered User
- Dec 24, 2018
- 12,964
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I mean, maybe not, but it certainly indicates the strength of the program. Sweden also only has 1 gold in 10 years, but only has 2 silvers and 2 bronze to Russias 4 and 4. Finlands 3 goal medals are very impressive, but is it not a little concerning that they have failed to medal in the other 6 tournaments? Hell, if Russia wins bronze tonight, they will have medalled in 18 of the last 20 tournaments.
Basically, the Russian problem is not with developing u20 players. If anything, it appears to be continued development. Dating back to the 1994 Olympics, Russia has only has one gold, one silver, and one bronze - with their gold coming against non-NHL competition - their first medal since 2002. Why are Russian players, on average, failing to keep pace with their counterparts from other nations, despite fairing quite well at the U20 level?
Finland, sure, agreed 100%, but what about the US? The US has 3 of the past 11 golds and has medalled 7 times in that span. Compare that to the previous 35+ years, where they only won 1 gold, 1 silver, and 3 bronze.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
There's no equivalent in the NHL because teams do not keep playing after they are eliminated.
Realistically, we should be tracking semi-final finishes (e.g. top 4).
In this kind of tournament, a 4th place finish is just as good as a 3rd place finish because they both progressed equally far in pursuit of the championship.
Mickey Marner
Registered User
Way she goes. They lost the 2020, 2016, 2015 & 2012 finals by one goal, 2012 and 2016 were in OT.
Couple of lucky bounces and Russia may have had 3 golds. Gusev could have closed on Sweden in 2012, we would be talking how Sweden sucks. One game - anything can happen. Would be great to have some kind of a World Cup for U-24 or U-26 teams with best of 3 playoffs.
IceHockeyDude
Registered User
I disagree slightly with the idea of pure luck. Four final game losses are a significant amount. Sure luck has a factor there but for instance Finland winning three golds out of three finals is not just luck. Finnish teams have looked, played, being coached and had a different attitude for the last 8 years or so.
Individually no. But they're very important in assessing the health and consistency of a hockey program.
Any reasonable program would exchange 2 golds and 8 4th-6th place finishes for 9 medals in 10 years.
That stat in particular is a bit about luck considering how many gold medals have been decided by late game bounces.
There is I think a systemic issue with Russian hockey, if you watched yesterday and saw the across the board talent discrepancy between Russia and Canada you would have seen it. But measuring the problem in medal counts is foolish.
There is I think a systemic issue with Russian hockey, if you watched yesterday and saw the across the board talent discrepancy between Russia and Canada you would have seen it. But measuring the problem in medal counts is foolish.
In single-game elimination tournaments, using the medals as a way to measure the health of a youth program is like measuring the temperature by the depth of the snow. There is a correlation there but it's going to be very rough. You really don't need a medal count to tell that Russian hockey has problems. There are better ways to tell the health of a youth program.
I personally do not think there is a huge talent discrepancy between Russia and Canada. I do think there are a couple of superstars on team Canada but it is nothing Russian teams havent seen before. It was really simple that Canadian coaching is superior. I saw right away the holes in our game which are not talent related - system related. With the right coach team Russia could have been competitive yesterday but Larionov isn't capable.
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