Russia have 1 gold in 10 years in World Juniors

[Zine]

That stat in particular is a bit about luck considering how many gold medals have been decided by late game bounces.

There is I think a systemic issue with Russian hockey, if you watched yesterday and saw the across the board talent discrepancy between Russia and Canada you would have seen it. But measuring the problem in medal counts is foolish.

Nothing can be discerned from a single age group, or tournament.

This Canadian team is hardly representative of the average Canadian team. This age group has depth not seen since 2005. Plus, it was a down year for Russia talent wise. It happens.

 

[jj cale]

Well, it is tough to rack up a lot of golds.

 

[Czechboy]

Depends how you look at it.

Previous to these games, they've medaled 9 times in 10 years. If they win today it's 10 in 11. Canada only has 7 in 11. The US 6. Sweden 5. Finland 3. 4 if they win today.

That's remarkable high level consistency considering anybody can win in a single elimination game.

Beat me to it.. I was going to say exactly this. They could potentially have 10 of the last 11 tourneys with a medal. To me the program is getting better and better. I'd kill to have Russian hockey problems as a Czech hockey fan.haha

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Overall medaled 9 times in the last 10, possibly 10 out of last 11 - unreal result considering US and Canada medaled only 6 times in the same period. Lack of gold sucks though.

This!

They medalled 9 times out of 10.

They are consistently top 3.

The lack of golds sucks, but they haven't been bad, far from it.

 

[Zine]

I personally do not think there is a huge talent discrepancy between Russia and Canada. I do think there are a couple of superstars on team Canada but it is nothing Russian teams havent seen before. It was really simple that Canadian coaching is superior. I saw right away the holes in our game which are not talent related - system related. With the right coach team Russia could have been competitive yesterday but Larionov isn't capable.

No. Bragin would've made the outcome somewhat respectable. But Canada is just a better team than us. We never stood a chance.

 

[The Podium]

When was the last time team Russia had a respectable D?

Romanov, Sergachev and Provorov didnt overlap and I literally cannot think of another good D outside of those 3.

 

[donghabs98]

This!

They medalled 9 times out of 10.

They are consistently top 3.

The lack of golds sucks, but they haven't been bad, far from it.

Yeah just because Russia hasn't won more gold medals doesn't mean they have had a rough decade. They have gotten close several times and are always a team not to take lightly.

 

[Mickey Marner]

When was the last time team Russia had a respectable D?

Romanov, Sergachev and Provorov didnt overlap and I literally cannot think of another good D outside of those 3.

Russia's defenseman development fell off the map post-iron curtain and only recovered recently. Their 80's D.O.B defensemen were a joke compared to 70's and 90's. Fedor Tyutin leads all 80's D.O.B Russian defensemen in NHL games played and points.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Just don't have the same kind of depth they have enjoyed in the past. Russian players only make up about ~4% of the NHL. Also have really struggled to develop defenseman on par with CAN, USA, SWE in this age group the last 15-20 years. I'm not so sure Russian hockey has really been in decline as much as USA, SWE, FIN all markedly improving.

I do wonder what the results would look like if this tournament were played in Russia on big ice. People tend to look past this factor but the way the game works changes quite a bit with the size of the area of play.

 

[ViD]

Way she goes. They lost the 2020, 2016, 2015 & 2012 finals by one goal, 2012 and 2016 were in OT.

Yup, very unfortunate

 

[Dueling Banjos]

Just don't have the same kind of depth they have enjoyed in the past. Russian players only make up about ~4% of NHL players. Also have really struggled to develop defenseman on par with CAN, USA, SWE in this age group the last 15-20 years. I'm not so sure Russian hockey has really been in decline as much as USA, SWE, FIN all markedly improving.

I do wonder what the results would look like if this tournament were played in Russia on big ice. People tend to look passed this factor but the way the game works changes quite a bit with the size of the area of play.

Good point about the ice size. Russians, KHL, are slowly moving to smaller ice as far as i know...for instance Askarov, who plays for SKA, his club is supposedly using 60x26m rink since last season, so i am sure other players have played at least handful of games on the smaller ice.

 

[93LEAFS]

The CHL poaches and then ruins half their young talent.......... Or at least that's what I keep on being told. Nothing to do with internal development......

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

When was the last time team Russia had a respectable D?

Romanov, Sergachev and Provorov didnt overlap and I literally cannot think of another good D outside of those 3.

Last time they won, they had Orlov & Zaitsev (no other D who made it to the NHL)

2014, they had Zadorov, Tryamkin, and Lyubushkin (bronze)

Beyond that, they haven't had any year with multiple NHL D, and some years with none. The 2019 team, with Romanov, Alexeyev, Samorukov, and Ivan Morozov looks like a very promising group. It has definitely been a weak point for the Russians - they really only had 3 top-4 D in the NHL last season (Provorov/Sergachev/Orlov), and 4 or 5 other regulars (Gavrikov, Zaitsev, Zadorov, Kulikov, Lyubushkin).

 

[Rob]

I remember when Canada went 7 years between gold medals. It was a national crisis!

 

[Urbanskog]

Russia has lost quite a bit of steam, and probably aren't the second best hockey nation anymore. USA is second. And quite frankly, they're falling back and probably on par with Sweden. With countries like Finland catching.

"Probably"? What a total understatement. When has Russia last been the second-best hockey nation in the world? I don't see how can Russia be considered to be ahead of Finland and I certainly don't see how can it be considered to be on par with Sweden.

 

[joe dirte]

"Probably"? What a total understatement. When has Russia last been the second-best hockey nation in the world? I don't see how can Russia be considered to be ahead of Finland and I certainly don't see how it can be considered to be on par with Sweden.

Easy, they've still got the most high end talent other than Canada, in the world. It seems to be a reasonably thin pool, but Ovechkin, Malkin, Panarin, Kucherov, Kuznetsov, Svechnikov, Dadonov on forward, Provorov, Sergachev.... (D isn't great), Vasilevski in net (plus Varlamov, Bobrovsky, Khudobin, Shesterkin, and Samsonov).

I can't see Finland or Sweden icing soemthing that beats that. Not remotely close at forward. The top Finn scorer last year was Aho, with one less point than Ovechkin (10 less goals).... whoch would be 5th in their scoring.

As much as Russia blows Sweden's forwards away, Sweden blows their Defense away. So it gets pretty close, especially with goaltending going to Russia.

Best on best, the odds are still on Russia, that's why.

Of the top 20 nhl scorers, 6 were canadian, 6 were american, 4 russians, 1 swede, 1 finn, 1 german, 1 pastrnakian.

 

[CpatainCanuck]

Overall medaled 9 times in the last 10, possibly 10 out of last 11 - unreal result considering US and Canada medaled only 6 times in the same period. Lack of gold sucks though.

Nobody really cares about Silver and Bronze medals.

Canada usually has a "gold or bust" mentality at most levels of international hockey.

In the WJC Canada has gone 1-2 in Bronze Medal games since 2005, while being 8-3 in Gold Medal games in that same time period.

In the World Championships Canada has gone 0-4 in Bronze medal games since their last Bronze in 1995, while they are 6-6 in Gold Medal games in that same time period.

In the Olympics Canada went 3-0 in Gold Medal games in best-on-best competition, while not medalling on two other occasions. (The Silver won in 2018 without any NHL participation is probably one tournament where the Canadian team didn't have a "Gold or Bust" mentality, and in which Canadian players and fans were alike in being proud of achieving 2nd place).

 

[domiwroze]

This!

They medalled 9 times out of 10.

They are consistently top 3.

The lack of golds sucks, but they haven't been bad, far from it.

If you're not first, you're last!

 

[Civetty]

despite the fact that the KHL is still the second strongest league in the world, Russia has lost quite a bit of steam, and probably aren't the second best hockey nation anymore. USA is second. And quite frankly, they're falling back and probably on par with Sweden. With countries like Finland catching.

This things can have ebbs and flows, but Russia has for sure gotten significantly weaker over the last decade.

Are you talking in this tournament or senior?

I'd say the ranking goes something like this for the moment in my opinion.

1. Canada
2 Sweden/USA
3. USA/Sweden
4. Russia/Finland
5. Finland/Russia

At senior level that is, Sweden have indeed been abysmal in this tournament.

 

[canuckster19]

In single-game elimination tournaments, using the medals as a way to measure the health of a youth program is like measuring the temperature by the depth of the snow. There is a correlation there but it's going to be very rough. You really don't need a medal count to tell that Russian hockey has problems. There are better ways to tell the health of a youth program.

Especially considering when looking at the tier level of teams and talent level, it should be reasonable to expect that the big four or 5 should be medaling every other year on a coin flip alone, the fact that Russia happens to have 9 is a statistacal anomaly more than anything IMO. Consider also the fact that 2 bronze medals were won against Canada which is a gold or bust team.

 

[canuckster19]

I remember when Canada went 7 years between gold medals. It was a national crisis!

I remember that, I was back home in Canada in 2005 and that's all the talk was especially with the lockout how Canada absolutely had to win that year, probably only second to the Olympics in 2002 (maybe 2010 as well) in terms of importance.

 

[joe dirte]

Are you talking in this tournament or senior?

I'd say the ranking goes something like this for the moment in my opinion.

1. Canada
2 Sweden/USA
3. USA/Sweden
4. Russia/Finland
5. Finland/Russia

At senior level that is, Sweden have indeed been abysmal in this tournament.

Im talking in general. The junior tourney can change from year to year quite drastically. The finns have been fantastic this tourney.

The swedes have had a similar ebb of takent lately to the russians. The russians would smash both finland and sweden at the senior kevel. Not really close.

The finns have started to turn out some good talent in recent years but they havent caught the russians in general.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Im talking in general. The junior tourney can change from year to year quite drastically. The finns have been fantastic this tourney.

The swedes have had a similar ebb of takent lately to the russians. The russians would smash both finland and sweden at the senior kevel. Not really close.

The finns have started to turn out some good talent in recent years but they havent caught the russians in general.

the russians did not smash sweden and finland in og 2014 and world cup 2016.

 

[Tyttojenvessa]

Even Finland have more golds than Russia these last 10 years.

Finland has the most gold medals of all countries in the last 10 years, even more than canada

 

[joe dirte]

Finland has the most gold medals of all countries in the last 10 years, even more than canada

And have missed the medals completely quite a few times. Theyre most often in the 5th to 7th place area.