Rumor: Rumours & Proposals Thread | Previous Poll Punted, Pristine Prospect Procurement Poll Pinned

[McDoused]

The Pickard comp dosnt apply at all. Just a completely different situation.

Scoring is the hardest thing to do in hockey and Bouchard is doing that at an elite level.
I get what you are saying regarding League cmparisions and that usually plays a big part in negotiations.
However I just dont see Nurses contract being in a vacuum and not applicable to any other dman on the team when it comes to their negotiation.
I mean how does Holland sit down with negotiate with Bouchard and then tell him that he isnt as valuable to the team as Darnell Nurse is? That his accom[plishments dont merit the same money as Nurse but his accomplishments matter more in comparison to other players around the League.

IMO Ekholm is the best all around dman on this team but his contract doesnt apply because they inherited that contract. Outside of Ekholm Bouchard is the best dman on this team.
So with that in mind I just cant imagine the mental gymnastics required to sell Bouchard on a contract that suggests he isnt a better damn than Nurse.

That's not the conversation that they would have. Holland (or whoever the GM is) cannot use the Nurse contract as the standard. The only way the Nurse contract is a comparable is that it's among the top 10 highest paid contracts among defense. If Bouchard is a top 10 defenceman he should be paid as a top 10 defenceman.

 

[belair]

We actually agree except that Nurse is absolutely not a dman that has a $9.25M value in terms of TOI.

What I am essentially saying is that having $50M tied up in 4 players is going to make filling out the rest of the roster with SC contending quality players very difficult.

I think what we've seen from Nurse for the most part is a blip in what's likely still the middle portion of a successful NHL career.

I don't think he'll ever shake the hate of that $9.25m cap number, but it's still very possible he puts together seasons where he's viewed as a top pairing defenseman again.

 

[Lay Z Boy GM]

i dont know 100% but i do have a feeling drai and mcdavid dont feel like winning once is sufficent, i fully expect them to plan on winning multiple

Same here. Like if we win this series I still think there’s A LOT of work to be done this off season. This team can get better in several areas and lose multiple bad contracts.

They made it this far despite having some holes. Fix a couple areas and McDrai could be regularly in the finals for the next few years.

 

[timekeep]

If you look at his underlying metrics- he is in the top echelon of the league. He zone exits and zone denials are amongst the top defenders in the league. He has both the offence and defence of being a defender. I’ll say it again, Oilers made a massive mistake not giving him a long term deal this past summer. This is why you have an analytics dept that can help forecast these things.


No. He has now put together 3 good playoffs and 2 good seasons. His agent can bring forward his analytics on both sides of the puck. Thats why most analytics folks were saying to lock him up long term this past summer. They decided to keep Ceci and Foegele instead

A few good playoffs and 2 good seasons should not equate to elite pay. His good at defense right now because he plays with a great defensive dman. Holland had no capspace to trade one player for two. There were one or two games that they didn't have a full roster before they sent down Campbell and got some cap.

 

[guymez]

That's not the conversation that they would have. Holland (or whoever the GM is) cannot use the Nurse contract as the standard. The only way the Nurse contract is a comparable is that it's among the top 10 highest paid contracts among defense. If Bouchard is a top 10 defenceman he should be paid as a top 10 defenceman.

Lets see how it plays out.
I would like nothing more than to see Bouchard come in below $8M.

 

[guymez]

I think what we've seen from Nurse for the most part is a blip in what's likely still the middle portion of a successful NHL career.

I don't think he'll ever shake the hate of that $9.25m cap number, but it's still very possible he puts together seasons where he's viewed as a top pairing defenseman again.

I doubt that primarily because he never was a top pairing Dman. He just happened to be one of the best dman on a bad defence for a while. Nurse was the benefactor of good timing.
The other thing to consider here is that he will be 30 years old next season.
Nurse is as good as he is going to get.

 

[foshizzle]

A few good playoffs and 2 good seasons should not equate to elite pay. His good at defense right now because he plays with a great defensive dman. Holland had no capspace to trade one player for two. There were one or two games that they didn't have a full roster before they sent down Campbell and got some cap.

To say Bouchard is a good defenceman because he plays with Ekholm is a false narrative. Bouchard was already the Oilers best zone denial defenseman and zone exit dman before Ekholm got here. Let’s take it a step further- Ekholm hit careers highs this year on the offensive side of the puck, and put up better defensive metrics than he did in Nashville. It’s like he had a rebirth. So one can argue Bouchard has helped Ekholm’s game.

In reality- both players helped each other. Also, yes, players get paid after 3 good playoffs and 2 great seasons. Have you not been paying attention?

 

[McDoused]

Lets see how it plays out.
I would like nothing more than to see Bouchard come in below $8M.

I never said he would come in at 8. I'm just saying Bouchard can't say he's way better than Nurse so he should get significantly more than 9.25M. I would guess he comes in around 9M x 8 years.

 

[belair]

I doubt that primarily because he never was a top pairing Dman. He just happened to be one of the best dman on a bad defence for a while. Nurse was the benefactor of good timing.
The other thing to consider here is that he will be 30 years old next season.
Nurse is as good as he is going to get.

And that for many years he's played to date is a top pairing NHL defenseman. This is the lowest average icetime he's had since the 2016-17 season. It's doubtful those minutes drop moving forward considering Mattias Ekholm is soon to be 35.

 

[timekeep]

To say Bouchard is a good defenceman because he plays with Ekholm is a false narrative. Bouchard was already the Oilers best zone denial defenseman and zone exit dman before Ekholm got here. Let’s take it a step further- Ekholm hit careers highs this year on the offensive side of the puck, and put up better defensive metrics than he did in Nashville. It’s like he had a rebirth. So one can argue Bouchard has helped Ekholm’s game.

In reality- both players helped each other. Also, yes, players get paid after 3 good playoffs and 2 great seasons. Have you not been paying attention?

There is a lot to chuckle at, but I'm not arguing with you if think that Bouchard was good defensively before Ekholm got here. That proves to me your knowledge of the game....

I am not saying he won't get paid, I'm saying to wait as there is no rush. Will it surprise me when they do it? NOPE

 

[McDNicks17]

I never said he would come in at 8. I'm just saying Bouchard can't say he's way better than Nurse so he should get significantly more than 9.25M. I would guess he comes in around 9M x 8 years.

9x8 would be a quite the sweetheart deal.

Assuming the conservative estimate of the cap going up 5% per year, by year 2 of that deal, he'd be making the equivalent of $7.5M this season. Basically top 30 D money. A few more years and he'd be making basically #3/4D money.

 

[foshizzle]

There is a lot to chuckle at, but I'm not arguing with you if think that Bouchard was good defensively before Ekholm got here. That proves to me your knowledge of the game....

I am not saying he won't get paid, I'm saying to wait as there is no rush. Will it surprise me when they do it? NOPE

That’s the problem with posters like you. You sit there and think you have all this hockey wisdom without any actual substance to back it up. On ice save % or zone exits, puck retrievals, xGAR% literally are a foreign language to you. What you have is bias- you’ve decided what you decided with nothing to back it up. Eye test backed that up to. The fact that you think players don’t get PAID big time after 2 years and 3 good playoffs…well I guess you think no one gets big bucks after their entry level deal is done. Hey- maybe Ekholm should play with Nurse and turn him into Bouchard too, then play him with Vinny and Vinny will become Bouchard as well.

Yes, there is a harm in waiting. Even Stauffer knew Bouchard was going to pop. He is going to be even better next year. He isn’t Nurse who had an outlier season. His value goes up.

You’re right- no point arguing with you. You decided to follow the viewpoints of Spector and the dinosaur media vs looking for yourself. Tells me a lot about your hockey knowledge. Have a great day. Going on ignore as I see no value in speaking with you and vice versa.

9x8 would be a quite the sweetheart deal.

Assuming the conservative estimate of the cap going up 5% per year, by year 2 of that deal, he'd be making the equivalent of $7.5M this season. Basically top 30 D money. A few more years and he'd be making basically #3/4D money.

Bouchard had better defensive metrics than Hughes and Makar this year. He’s getting paid.

 

[belair]

I wonder if we see Yamamoto circle back here next season. It's likely Seattle doesn't qualify him and he didn't get much of an opportunity there last season.

He was a pretty popular guy in the room and was a player you could plug pretty much anywhere.

 

[McDoused]

9x8 would be a quite the sweetheart deal.

Assuming the conservative estimate of the cap going up 5% per year, by year 2 of that deal, he'd be making the equivalent of $7.5M this season. Basically top 30 D money. A few more years and he'd be making basically #3/4D money.

I don't disagree with any of this. I will point out that when Nurse signed his deal people said the same thing and it's looking pretty terrible right now.

I do think guys like at % of cap from when they signed their last deal to when they sign their next deal. For example McDavid did his deal for 12.5M in 2017 when it was 75M or 16.67% of the cap. So if the cap does up another 4M it would 91.7. With thay same % we are looking at 15.28M.

I really don't know how much they think about % of the cap down the road after that.

For Bouchard I could see him looking at Makar getting 9M in 2021 when the cap was 81. That would be about 11% of the cap. With a 87.7M cap that's 9.7M.

So if he isn't better than Makar you could make the argument that even with the cap going up he shouldn't warrant 10M+.

 

[McDNicks17]

I don't disagree with any of this. I will point out that when Nurse signed his deal people said the same thing and it's looking pretty terrible right now.

I do think guys like at % of cap from when they signed their last deal to when they sign their next deal. For example McDavid did his deal for 12.5M in 2017 when it was 75M or 16.67% of the cap. So if the cap does up another 4M it would 91.7. With thay same % we are looking at 15.28M.

I really don't know how much they think about % of the cap down the road after that.

For Bouchard I could see him looking at Makar getting 9M in 2021 when the cap was 81. That would be about 11% of the cap. With a 87.7M cap that's 9.7M.

So if he isn't better than Makar you could make the argument that even with the cap going up he shouldn't warrant 10M+.

I'd say Makar's deal is fairly different. That was all RFA years. Bouchard will only have one RFA year on his next deal.

It was also signed when there was no expectation for the cap to go up for a few years. I'd say Bouchard's agent is going to look for that 11% or so in year 4/5 more so than year 1 if it's an 8 year deal.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Lets see how it plays out.
I would like nothing more than to see Bouchard come in below $8M.

I don't see that happening unless we sign him to an up to 3 year deal that takes him to UFA. Anything long term starts with a 9 at minimum. The good thing is that we have Skinner and Ekholm locked up 2 more years at a bargain for the roles that they play.

 

[Pavel10]

I don't disagree with any of this. I will point out that when Nurse signed his deal people said the same thing and it's looking pretty terrible right now.

I do think guys like at % of cap from when they signed their last deal to when they sign their next deal. For example McDavid did his deal for 12.5M in 2017 when it was 75M or 16.67% of the cap. So if the cap does up another 4M it would 91.7. With thay same % we are looking at 15.28M.

I really don't know how much they think about % of the cap down the road after that.

For Bouchard I could see him looking at Makar getting 9M in 2021 when the cap was 81. That would be about 11% of the cap. With a 87.7M cap that's 9.7M.

So if he isn't better than Makar you could make the argument that even with the cap going up he shouldn't warrant 10M+.

Then he needs to win a Norris like makar. Right now makar is better.

 

[bellagiobob]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1798904108986016063

 

[TheNumber4]

Him and Pasta being childhood friends seems to be the extent of this connection.

They’re “childhood” friends? I just assumed they became friends at the NHL, maybe crossing paths at the all star game and decided to meet up in Europe where they vacation.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

The other thing to consider here is that he will be 30 years old next season.
Nurse is as good as he is going to get.

Disagree.

Due to modern training, coaching, equipment and medicine we are seeing some D-men peak in their early thirties.

 

[LTIR]

The big difference in those guys didn't get bridged(or forced to sit out an entire year of their ELC). Both of them are going to be up for UFA at 27 years old and able to make absolute bank on their next contract.

Bouchard's next contract will kick in when he's 26 years old. That deal is basically going to be his only shot at making big money. His agent is going to be pushing for the same kind of retirement deal that Hughes/Makar are going to be looking for in a few years.

Easy pass on Bouchard if he wants 10M+
The guy would be chased out of town if he gets more than Makar and struggles for a few games.

They’re “childhood” friends? I just assumed they became friends at the NHL, maybe crossing paths at the all star game and decided to meet up in Europe where they vacation.

Yeh, this whole pasta connection is overblown..
If BOS really want him they would be ponying up McAvoy with retention or McAvoy + Frederick

 

[LTIR]

I wonder if we see Yamamoto circle back here next season. It's likely Seattle doesn't qualify him and he didn't get much of an opportunity there last season.

He was a pretty popular guy in the room and was a player you could plug pretty much anywhere.

I think there have been some Patrick Kane to Edmonton rumblings. Might happen if the guy wants another shot at the cup and is willing to sign for cheap.
Ideal RWer to round out our top 6.

 

[McDoused]

I'd say Makar's deal is fairly different. That was all RFA years. Bouchard will only have one RFA year on his next deal.

It was also signed when there was no expectation for the cap to go up for a few years. I'd say Bouchard's agent is going to look for that 11% or so in year 4/5 more so than year 1 if it's an 8 year deal.

The problem with the agent saying they want 11% in year 4/5 is that its conjecture. We don't actually know if the cap is going up or not. I really do think they just look at two points of time. IE: What was the cap when the first deal was signed and what was the cap when the 2nd deal is signed. The first deal could have been based on potential growth as well which would offset the potential growth of the second contract. It gets pretty convoluted. Players just want to make sure they are "getting a raise" relative to what the cap used to at the time of the signing.

Maybe I'm wrong though but it would surprise me if agents/players factored in future growth. It's one of the reasons players seem to wait for the cap to go up before they sign the contract. Otherwise they would just sign the contract with the growth already built in.

 

[McDoused]

They’re “childhood” friends? I just assumed they became friends at the NHL, maybe crossing paths at the all star game and decided to meet up in Europe where they vacation.

I always loved this. Like McDavid and Draisaitl have been best friends for 9 years. They've gone to war together, reached the Stanley cup final together and built this team and culture from the ground up. Their wives are friends and deeply ingrained in the community (Ben Stetler, etc) but let's throw that all away because they used to hang out with a guy when they were younger? McDavid might as well go play for Florida because he knows Sam Bennett.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1798904108986016063

Actually 10 overall, Allen and Daws for Markstrom @50% + something would makes sense both ways.