Proposal: Rumours and Proposals Thread: Subban Talk

[Pointteen]

Oh and btw Panarin already roasting Chicago about their cap situation, which is about to get very ugly

Roast implies too much. He said he didn't like the cap situation. Hardly a damning statement

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

whoa!

In defense of the Blackhawks, it seems to be taking a long time for GM's to figure out how the cap works most efficiently. Young players and picks are going to be worth a lot more, they already are. I can't see them letting Pan go, they will shuffle the lineup somehow to fit him in. Buy someone out, trade?

I was making light of his rookie status.

Not sure what he said.

 

[SometimesY]

Anyone think a guy like Seabrook might be available?

His contract is kind of scary, but he would step right in and be our best defenceman.

I'd move Klefbom for Seabrook at a 10 to 20% discount quite easily. I'd even throw in picks. Assuming we did nothing else:

Maroon-McDavid-Kassian/Eberle
Hall-Drai-Kassian/Eberle
Pouliot-RNH-Pak/Korpi
Klink-Hendricks-Cracknell

Sekera-Seabrook
Davidson-?????
Nurse/Reinhart-Pardy/Gryba/Fayne

Talbot
Broissoit/?????

Then you could Dangle RNH for a top pairing RHD, and maybe sign a guy like Backes. That easily puts us in the money. Lets you pick a kid like Dubois or Tkachuk and develop them as well.

Um, so move our great contract best dman, for a guy with a contract until he's 38 (or something)? That's not the asset management that appeals to me, but...

 

[Aceboogie]

Anyone think a guy like Seabrook might be available?

His contract is kind of scary, but he would step right in and be our best defenceman.

I'd move Klefbom for Seabrook at a 10 to 20% discount quite easily. I'd even throw in picks. Assuming we did nothing else:

Maroon-McDavid-Kassian/Eberle
Hall-Drai-Kassian/Eberle
Pouliot-RNH-Pak/Korpi
Klink-Hendricks-Cracknell

Sekera-Seabrook
Davidson-?????
Nurse/Reinhart-Pardy/Gryba/Fayne

Talbot
Broissoit/?????

Then you could Dangle RNH for a top pairing RHD, and maybe sign a guy like Backes. That easily puts us in the money. Lets you pick a kid like Dubois or Tkachuk and develop them as well.

Sorry not to sound rude. But this might do down as a worse trade than Gomez for McDonaugh. Seabrook makes 6.8 for 7 more years. And at this point, hes not facing toughest comp and hes possession compared to teammates is atrocious (hes last on Hawks Corsirel). His game is falling apart rather quickly. So add Klefbom, a young and upcoming top pairing D would be such a Lowe move.

I was hesistant to move Klefbom for him the year before he was a FA and when Klefbom was a babyfaced AHL rookie. Now? well Klefbom has emerged and Seabrook has begun tumbling and he was signed to a nightmare contract. Id wager Klefbom is a better D as soon as October 1, 2016, and gap will only grow.

Hjmarlsson is a far, far, far better target, Miles ahead of Seabrook. TBH Seabrook for Yak + picks is still a sketchy deal. Given that Seabrook will become a Girardi type situation rather soon

 

[Aceboogie]

What did Panarin say about the Hawks cap situation?

Technically Chicago can offer me a long term contract this year.

However , their cap situation is not very good. I am not too fond of that.

Take that for what you will. But even Panarin understands the Hawks are in a tough spot.

Ive seen some reports of Ladd saying hell take a discount to stay in Chicago. Given that Hawks gave up a lot to get him, I could see them signing him to a 5.5 mil deal. This would seriously sink their cap situation. They have almost no space without Ladd. I think Seabrook could shake loose (something big has to go) but hes far down on my list of wants. Hjmarlsson is #1 with a bullet. If you could somehow steal him and also get Hamonic. You are set

 

[RipsADrive]

I can't wait to see what Hamonic goes for.

I just don't see any way that the Isles can get what Snow is rumoured to want/ what Isles fans are asking for.

 

[iCanada]

Sorry not to sound rude. But this might do down as a worse trade than Gomez for McDonaugh. Seabrook makes 6.8 for 7 more years. And at this point, hes not facing toughest comp and hes possession compared to teammates is atrocious (hes last on Hawks Corsirel). His game is falling apart rather quickly. So add Klefbom, a young and upcoming top pairing D would be such a Lowe move.

I was hesistant to move Klefbom for him the year before he was a FA and when Klefbom was a babyfaced AHL rookie. Now? well Klefbom has emerged and Seabrook has begun tumbling and he was signed to a nightmare contract. Id wager Klefbom is a better D as soon as October 1, 2016, and gap will only grow.

Hjmarlsson is a far, far, far better target, Miles ahead of Seabrook. TBH Seabrook for Yak + picks is still a sketchy deal. Given that Seabrook will become a Girardi type situation rather soon

6.8 with 20% retention is 5.4 million. That is very reasonable.

I get that he is slowing down, but he is also one of those guys that would be ideal to teach our own young D their trade. I think a guy like Reinhart or Nurse would benefit tons having a guy like Seabrook to teach him.

Look at who we had at LD: Sekera, Klefbom, Nurse, Davidson, Reinhart, Oesterle, and supposedly Musil is looking like he could make that step too.

That is 6 different guys. Chances are we lose at least two of them to the expansion draft for nothing. I'd rather move a few we don't like for some big value, and have a better team for it. Klefbom could never be the same again, see Whitney after his foot problems. Supposedly Klefa has no feeling at all in his lower leg from that staff infection, if I recall correctly.

http://public.tableau.com/shared/H24CHRXXB?:display_count=yes

We have no problem paying Sekera 5.5, we should have no problem paying Seabrook 5.4.

http://public.tableau.com/shared/KC2DQBD2C?:display_count=yes

http://public.tableau.com/shared/27H3XXTGG?:display_count=yes

They are basically the same player, but Seabrook is bigger and more physical. He is also an RHD which we are hella weak at.

 

[Jet Walters]

The Oilers are pleased to miss the playoffs for the next 3 or 4 more seasons while these prospects develop into NHLers

It really depends what else happens, but having great young players still on ELC's is never a bad thing.

I guarantee that next year an 18 year old Dubois would do more to help the Oilers win than Yakupov would if the Oilers keep him.

Say Chia gets verbal commitments from a few UFA forwards before the draft. Trading two of RNH/Eberle/Hall for a couple of very good defensemen seems reasonable. Replacing them with forwards who balance the top 9 is even more reasonable. And having two prospects like Dubois an Sergachev waiting in the wings is a very good situation going forward.

It all depends who Chia can get for free July 1.

 

[Aceboogie]

6.8 with 20% retention is 5.4 million. That is very reasonable.

I get that he is slowing down, but he is also one of those guys that would be ideal to teach our own young D their trade. I think a guy like Reinhart or Nurse would benefit tons having a guy like Seabrook to teach him.

Look at who we had at LD: Sekera, Klefbom, Nurse, Davidson, Reinhart, Oesterle, and supposedly Musil is looking like he could make that step too.

That is 6 different guys. Chances are we lose at least two of them to the expansion draft for nothing. I'd rather move a few we don't like for some big value, and have a better team for it. Klefbom could never be the same again, see Whitney after his foot problems. Supposedly Klefa has no feeling at all in his lower leg from that staff infection, if I recall correctly.

I dont think you are. Every article has stated their is no structual damage so this is not like Whitney at all. Seabrook could only teach Nurse and Reinhart so much. Klefbom is the one with unlimited potential and already top pairing play. If you for whatever reason wanted to go for Seabrook, Klefbom is last guy youd choose. First youd knock off low upside Reinhart, then expensive 5.5 Sekera, then wild horse Nurse, lastly high upside, already great Klefbom. Klefbom for Seabrook (aside from any contracts) is lateral at best and with huge risk. Contracts brought in, it gets ugly

We saw Girardi fall off a cliff over 2 seasons. Seabrook is 1 season in, going on 2. Except Seabrook has a bigger contract

 

[Defsta]

6.8 with 20% retention is 5.4 million. That is very reasonable.

I get that he is slowing down, but he is also one of those guys that would be ideal to teach our own young D their trade. I think a guy like Reinhart or Nurse would benefit tons having a guy like Seabrook to teach him.

Look at who we had at LD: Sekera, Klefbom, Nurse, Davidson, Reinhart, Oesterle, and supposedly Musil is looking like he could make that step too.

That is 6 different guys. Chances are we lose at least two of them to the expansion draft for nothing. I'd rather move a few we don't like for some big value, and have a better team for it. Klefbom could never be the same again, see Whitney after his foot problems. Supposedly Klefa has no feeling at all in his lower leg from that staff infection, if I recall correctly.

No, you don't recall correctly. And how that help us, it only leaves another hole to fill. Nurse isn't ready fir top 4 role and he isn't producing like one. And it's 7 years, not 3 or 4, he's bloody 39 when his contract expires.

 

[Aceboogie]

No, you don't recall correctly. And how that help us, it only leaves another hole to fill. Nurse isn't ready fir top 4 role and he isn't producing like one. And it's 7 years, not 3 or 4, he's bloody 39 when his contract expires.

Yeah 3-4 years at 6.8 or 5.5 if retained is stomachable. 7 years is brutal and will get ugly fast. Oilers have to be bold this offseason and take on a bad deal or 2, but a 7 year deal is not a smart bet, especially on Seabrook.

 

[iCanada]

No, you don't recall correctly. And how that help us, it only leaves another hole to fill. Nurse isn't ready fir top 4 role and he isn't producing like one. And it's 7 years, not 3 or 4, he's bloody 39 when his contract expires.

Sekera is, Davidson before his injury showed he can be a top 4 guy, and we still have Nurse and Reinhart knocking on the door.

I get that we lose the trade long term, but we make our team better this year, and we eliminate an asset that we could potentially lose for free. It is good asset management. We have 7 LHD but only 3 spots.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Huh? I thought this was about what Stauffer said? Not what the Oilers could have, would have, or thought they could get for RNH. You said he (Stauffer) never suggested RNH for Josi. I distinctly remember him suggesting that and Friedman laughing at the suggestion. You said Bob literally never suggested Josi, which he did.

My mistake, I misunderstood your OP.
I had thought you were implying that Stauffer reported Josi for RNH was a deal that the Oilers could have made.

 

[Mr Positive]

Stauffer did imply there was a deal between Nashville and Edmonton for RNH, but it wasns't for Josi. He first implied, and then outright said that it was RNH for Weber. He said this on his radio show right after the Johansen trade, and he was using his 'wink wink' voice to mean that it wasn't just him spit balling

 

[Jet Walters]

My mistake, I misunderstood your OP.
I had thought you were implying that Stauffer reported Josi for RNH was a deal that the Oilers could have made.

Oh god no. I just stated Bob seems to have a higher opinion of the Oilers young talent than most people in the hockey world an used the Josi for RNH bone he threw at Friedman in January as an example. His RNH straight up for Faulk talk lately is just as out of touch with reality IMO.

 

[Spawn]

Stauffer did imply there was a deal between Nashville and Edmonton for RNH, but it wasns't for Josi. He first implied, and then outright said that it was RNH for Weber. He said this on his radio show right after the Johansen trade, and he was using his 'wink wink' voice to mean that it wasn't just him spit balling

There's no fathomable way that Nashville would have made that trade. A top 5 d-man in the league and their captain for an overpaid 2nd line center? It's laughable that Stauffer would think that was ever an even remote possibility.

 

[Defsta]

Sekera is, Davidson before his injury showed he can be a top 4 guy, and we still have Nurse and Reinhart knocking on the door.

I get that we lose the trade long term, but we make our team better this year, and we eliminate an asset that we could potentially lose for free. It is good asset management. We have 7 LHD but only 3 spots.

Maybe this year, but in long term contracts like Seabrook are bringing teams closer to a cap hell. As far I can see, Klefbom's contract is cap friendly and he's top-4 dman. I prefer trading forwards like Eberle or RNH as they are much easier to replace, top-4 dmen not so much.

Edit: And you only trade for guys like Seabrook when you're competing for Sc, not when you're trying to make tome challenging for playoff place. It might make us better next season, but in the future it's a pretty abd deal and closer to cap hell. And he's pretty old when we are really trying to compete.

 

[Mr Positive]

There's no fathomable way that Nashville would have made that trade. A top 5 d-man in the league and their captain for an overpaid 2nd line center? It's laughable that Stauffer would think that was ever an even remote possibility.

well like I said, it wasn't presented as a proposal, but as a deal he actually heard talked about, if you follow the nuances of how Bob operates. The potential deal could have also involved other players than RNH, but he didn't talk about that. Basically if Stauffer pulled that idea out of his butt it would have been extremely odd, and when he's talked about things in the past it has mostly proven to have truth to it. That's not guarantee, and I don't view it as rock solid info exactly, but I believe it could have been true. Also I will say that maybe there were talks around an RNH trade, but that they just did not progress because Nashville didn't like the cost, but that it was at least somewhat close for the talks to mean something.

It's also not crazy to believe it could have happened considering that their GM viewed the Preds as a lost cause until they could get a 1C, and did not see any way to get one other than trading a major asset. Also, Weber is extremely high paid and not quite as dominant as he once was. The team could give the mantle over to Josi and save the cash, or spend it elsewhere. Also, fans are constantly wrong about what is possible or impossible.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

There's no fathomable way that Nashville would have made that trade. A top 5 d-man in the league and their captain for an overpaid 2nd line center? It's laughable that Stauffer would think that was ever an even remote possibility.

Indeed.

Stauffer lost his mind.

There aren't a lot of players where I toss out absolutes on....since it usually depends on situation and context but Josi is ....absolutely....untradeable.

If anything he is more untradeable now then at this time last year. Ekholm would have to have a huge >1year for Nashville to even consider moving Josi and then only look in Edmonton's general direction if we had a Nurse/Reinhart playing well and under a cheap contract to send back ....along with RNH.

So that's like .....maybe they consider it years down the road....IFF everything somehow magically fell into place.

 

[Jet Walters]

Sorry Mr. Positive I just don't think Stauffer is as plugged as you think. Not since the regime change anyways.

I don't think using "nuance in his voice" is a reputable way to distinguish between your day to day sports radio talk and actual inside information either.

 

[Spawn]

well like I said, it wasn't presented as a proposal, but as a deal he actually heard talked about, if you follow the nuances of how Bob operates. The potential deal could have also involved other players than RNH, but he didn't talk about that. Basically if Stauffer pulled that idea out of his butt it would have been extremely odd, and when he's talked about things in the past it has mostly proven to have truth to it. That's not guarantee, and I don't view it as rock solid info exactly, but I believe it could have been true. Also I will say that maybe there were talks around an RNH trade, but that they just did not progress because Nashville didn't like the cost, but that it was at least somewhat close for the talks to mean something.

It's also not crazy to believe it could have happened considering that their GM viewed the Preds as a lost cause until they could get a 1C, and did not see any way to get one other than trading a major asset. Also, Weber is extremely high paid and not quite as dominant as he once was. The team could give the mantle over to Josi and save the cash, or spend it elsewhere. Also, fans are constantly wrong about what is possible or impossible.

I have no idea why Stauffer gets as much credit as he does. He might have a idea of something an hour or two before it becomes official. But otherwise he just throws as much crap at the wall as anyone and is always wrong.

There is zero chance that the Preds would have ever even paused to consider Weber for RNH. As I said, it's laughable that Bob would suggest that as any form of possibility. Holy cow is RNH overrated on this forum if anyone ever thought that could even be close to returning Shea Weber. Maybe we could have gotten Ryan Ellis for him. Doubt that would even be an option now that they've got a far better player in Johansen.

 

[iCanada]

Maybe this year, but in long term contracts like Seabrook are bringing teams closer to a cap hell. As far I can see, Klefbom's contract is cap friendly and he's top-4 dman. I prefer trading forwards like Eberle or RNH as they are much easier to replace, top-4 dmen not so much.

Edit: And you only trade for guys like Seabrook when you're competing for Sc, not when you're trying to make tome challenging for playoff place. It might make us better next season, but in the future it's a pretty abd deal and closer to cap hell. And he's pretty old when we are really trying to compete.

I would argue that the Hawks acquiring Campbell at a much worse contract than Seabrook is on now is a large part of what helped grow the Hawks into an annual SC contender.

 

[Defsta]

I would argue that the Hawks acquiring Campbell at a much worse contract than Seabrook is on now is a large part of what helped grow the Hawks into an annual SC contender.

And they had Keith, Seabrook and Buf to play with him. Got him as UFA and didn't trade anyone for him. He was free addition to the team, they didn't trade anything for him, not top-4 dman like you're suggesting we should do even we don't have enough proven dmen.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

"In all my years of professional hockey experience I have never seen such woeful cap management"

Ouch.

 

[Mr Positive]

I have no idea why Stauffer gets as much credit as he does. He might have a idea of something an hour or two before it becomes official. But otherwise he just throws as much crap at the wall as anyone and is always wrong.

There is zero chance that the Preds would have ever even paused to consider Weber for RNH. As I said, it's laughable that Bob would suggest that as any form of possibility. Holy cow is RNH overrated on this forum if anyone ever thought that could even be close to returning Shea Weber. Maybe we could have gotten Ryan Ellis for him. Doubt that would even be an option now that they've got a far better player in Johansen.

No Oiler fan on here mentioned trading RNH for Weber ever to my recollection. I was just reacting to those posts that said that RNH for Josi was ever a thing. So I just cited Bob, and I pondered the idea.

You are very much underrating RNH btw. He's not worth Weber in a vacuum sure, but he sure as hell is worth a lot more than what Ellis was worth at the time. Don't buy into the main boards sentiments. Our players have value around the league I'm sure.

I can't think of examples, but I'm sure Bob has been right about moves like these in the past, and not just a few hours of advance warning. You also have to realize that ideas like RNH for Faulk, or the Matthews pick for OEL, don't fall into this. You have to separate his speculation from the other stuff. Like I said, if you listen to him for a while, he has a certain kind of 'wink wink' voice.