Proposal: Rumours and Proposals Thread: Subban Talk

[iCanada]

And they had Keith, Seabrook and Buf to play with him. Got him as UFA and didn't trade anyone for him. He was free addition to the team, they didn't trade anything for him, not top-4 dman like you're suggesting we should do even we don't have enough proven dmen.

Buff was a forward at that time.

Keith was a nobody that came from the 3rd round (Kind of like that Davidson kid), who had just shown one season of good play before acquiring Campbell. Seabrook was a mediocre player who hadn't proved he could be a top 4 player at that time.

We have just as many kids right now who have the same pedigree today as the kids in Chicago did when they acquired Campbell. I also think Seabrook is a better gamble than Campbell was at that time regardless, as he is bigger, younger, and from the west. At that time Campbell was old as hell, he always has been a slight 5'-9" 180 lbs, he was making 6 million a year, and had only played in the East. We have all seen how terrible top pair defenders from the east often look when they migrate out west.

 

[Spawn]

No Oiler fan on here mentioned trading RNH for Weber ever to my recollection. I was just reacting to those posts that said that RNH for Josi was ever a thing. So I just cited Bob, and I pondered the idea.

You are very much underrating RNH btw. He's not worth Weber in a vacuum sure, but he sure as hell is worth a lot more than what Ellis was worth at the time. Don't buy into the main boards sentiments. Our players have value around the league I'm sure.

I can't think of examples, but I'm sure Bob has been right about moves like these in the past, and not just a few hours of advance warning. You also have to realize that ideas like RNH for Faulk, or the Matthews pick for OEL, don't fall into this. You have to separate his speculation from the other stuff. Like I said, if you listen to him for a while, he has a certain kind of 'wink wink' voice.

A good 2nd line center vs a good 2nd pairing d-man. One overpaid, one on an absolute bargain contract. Why would RNH possibly have more value?

I've listened to Stauffer for years. His 'wink win' voice is meaningless. If things happened as often as he does that 'wink wink' voice the team would have Weber, Seabrook and a 1/2 dozen other new players. He doesn't have a clue up until something is imminent.

RNH is disgustingly overrated here. Oiler fans are going to be woefully disappointed when he does get traded. There's no one lining up to add him and his $6 million contract for 55 points and mediocre defensive ability.

 

[Defsta]

Buff was a forward at that time.

Keith was a nobody that came from the 3rd round (Kind of like that Davidson kid), who had just shown one season of good play before acquiring Campbell. Seabrook was a mediocre player who hadn't proved he could be a top 4 player at that time.

We have just as many kids right now who have the same pedigree today as the kids in Chicago did when they acquired Campbell. I also think Seabrook is a better gamble than Campbell was at that time regardless, as he is bigger, younger, and from the west. At that time Campbell was old as hell, he always has been a slight 5'-9" 180 lbs, he was making 6 million a year, and had only played in the East. We have all seen how terrible top pair defenders from the east often look when they migrate out west.

Still, he was UFA they didn't trade player like Keith for him. Just look at our defense, it sucks big time and even we need that RHD badly we can't trade away player like Klefbom. And by the way, Campbell wasn't old as hell, he was 29 at that time.

 

[iCanada]

Still, he was UFA they didn't trade player like Keith for him. Just look at our defense, it sucks big time and even we need that RHD badly we can't trade away player like Klefbom. And by the way, Campbell wasn't old as hell, he was 29 at that time.

Seabrook is 30... Same age. I dont understand your argument.

What I am saying is, is that we are going to lose one of Nurse, Klef, Davidson, or Reinhart for nothing to the expansion draft. We have to protect Sekera due to NMC.

Essentially we are getting him for free. If we send Klef, we could likely get Shaw and some sugar added in too.

I get that his contract sucks... where else do we get a top pairing RHD for something we will lose regardless?

 

[Defsta]

Seabrook is 30... Same age. I dont understand your argument.

What I am saying is, is that we are going to lose one of Nurse, Klef, Davidson, or Reinhart for nothing to the expansion draft. We have to protect Sekera due to NMC.

Essentially we are getting him for free. If we send Klef, we could likely get Shaw and some sugar added in too.

I get that his contract sucks... where else do we get a top pairing RHD for something we will lose regardless?

We don't lose Nurse. We might lose Reinhart or Davidson, but I prefer losing one of them than losing Klefbom for aging player whose cap hit sucks and is regressing when this team is ready to compete. And Seabrook is 31 not 30.

 

[iCanada]

We don't lose Nurse. We might lose Reinhart or Davidson, but I prefer losing one of them than losing Klefbom for aging player whose cap hit sucks and is regressing when this team is ready to compete. And Seabrook is 31 not 30.

He turned 31 a week and a half ago on April 24th. LOL.

Davidson has proved as much as Klef has, but Klef has a higher Salary than Davidson does. I don't think Chi would take unfunctional cap dumps.

We could take on Shaw @ 3.5 and Seabrook @ 5.5 if we give away Klefbom @ 4.2.

We cannot take on Seabrook and Shaw for 9 million if we give up Davidson for 1.4.

I'd rather hedge my bet on the Cancer survivor who grew up an Oilers fan, than the guy whose been injured literally every year for half the year since his draft year.

 

[gordonhught]

Just say no to Seabrook.

 

[Pointteen]

Oshie looks very good for the Capitals.
Too bad he didn't end up in Edmonton. What a great add he would be here.

I can't think of anyone other than Brouwer who could provide what he has that the Oilers don't. Can't wait to see who is surprisingly available at the draft.

 

[Jet Walters]

Oshie looks very good for the Capitals.
Too bad he didn't end up in Edmonton. What a great add he would be here.

I can't think of anyone other than Brouwer who could provide what he has that the Oilers don't. Can't wait to see who is surprisingly available at the draft.

What would Oshie bring the Oilers? Other than another sub 6", under 200lb skilled winger? Brouwer, yes, he does bring what the Oilers need up front.

 

[Stud Muffin]

What would Oshie bring the Oilers? Other than another sub 6", under 200lb skilled winger? Brouwer, yes, he does bring what the Oilers need up front.

By the way Oshie plays I would have never guessed he was under 6 feet.

 

[Defsta]

He turned 31 a week and a half ago on April 24th. LOL.

Davidson has proved as much as Klef has, but Klef has a higher Salary than Davidson does. I don't think Chi would take unfunctional cap dumps.

We could take on Shaw @ 3.5 and Seabrook @ 5.5 if we give away Klefbom @ 4.2.

We cannot take on Seabrook and Shaw for 9 million if we give up Davidson for 1.4.

I'd rather hedge my bet on the Cancer survivor who grew up an Oilers fan, than the guy whose been injured literally every year for half the year since his draft year.

So, he's 31 then. And as far as I know his cap hit is $6,875m, not $5,5m. Even if you're implying that Hawks would take back 20% or something but they can't, they are in continuous cap hell. And it might get even worse if/or when Las Vegas enters to league as there's one more team to share league revenues and at the worst case it means cap going down.

 

[gordonhught]

By the way Oshie plays I would have never guessed he was under 6 feet.

Maybe there is still hope for Eberle.

 

[Mr Sakich]

I wonder if Davidson for Vatenen could work. The ducks are trading Vatenen because he is 2nd/3rd pairing but going to get a big raise. Davidson could be a 2nd / 3rd pairing at a cheap price.

 

[iCanada]

Just say no to Seabrook.

Where else are we getting puck moving defenceman that can reliably complete a stretch pass?

We probably need 2 of them to become a playoff team. That or we need a stud like Letang that can reliably play 30 minutes a night and complete consistent stretch passes. It is probably easier to get two 20 minute a night types.

I think we have a playoff capable forward core. It could be better, but I think when you look at the forward cores of the guys in the NHL, we can easily compete.

Our defence is atrocious though. We have zero puck movers, every team in the dance right now has multiple. We need to acquire multiple from some where. I think Barrie and Seabrook are likely the cheapest on the market.

Maybe Dumba, but I dont think he fits the reliable category at all.

So, he's 31 then. And as far as I know his cap hit is $6,875m, not $5,5m. Even if you're implying that Hawks would take back 20% or something but they can't, they are in continuous cap hell. And it might get even worse if/or when Las Vegas enters to league as there's one more team to share league revenues and at the worst case it means cap going down.

I clearly said I was interested in Seabrook with retention... No one is touching Seabrook at 6.8. You are moving the goalposts here.

 

[duul]

I wonder if Davidson for Vatenen could work. The ducks are trading Vatenen because he is 2nd/3rd pairing but going to get a big raise. Davidson could be a 2nd / 3rd pairing at a cheap price.

I would not trade Davidson for Vatanen. Call me crazy, but the way Davidson improved last year was unbelievable. He is a defensive beast and I have a feeling he will improve even more.

Like I've said, he plays a very similar style to Lidstrom, OEL, Josi...not to say he is anywhere near as good as those players, but they all look similar while playing. Calm, not exactly flashy...but they make such incredible defensive plays with quick breakout passes. I think Davidson was showing flashes ~10 games before his injury that he has POTENTIAL to become something great. I recently rewatched his and McDavid's shifts from last season. Most of them at least. His progression through the year was remarkable.

He was depended upon to be "the guy" and took that role very seriously. He was oozing confidence out there and really led our back end. I'm hoping he is able to train hard this offseason after the injury and come to camp a beast.

I am in the minority here, but I think he is a better player than Klefbom right now and a much better player than Sekera. He is our best defenceman as it is. He does everything Sekera does but better. Bigger, faster, more physical. Sekera doesn't make breakout passes. He flips it out at the first sight of trouble.

If you can, I recommend all of you to go back and watch Davidson's last 10-20 games. You can see him getting better and better as each game goes by. I've never seen such blatant improvement from a player. He went from being a #6 to a true #2 defenceman in the span of a season.

Maybe I'm too high on him, but I really saw no flaws in his game. He was a legitimate top pairing defenceman down the stretch. I think he could fit in nicely on a first pairing anchored by a Subban, Doughty, Faulk, Petro, Shattenkirk, etc.

Plus he has an absolute cannon of a shot. I want to see him used on the PP next season unless we bring in some PP specialist D.

 

[snipes]

I would not trade Davidson for Vatanen. Call me crazy, but the way Davidson improved last year was unbelievable. He is a defensive beast and I have a feeling he will improve even more.

Like I've said, he plays a very similar style to Lidstrom, OEL, Josi...not to say he is anywhere near as good as those players, but they all look similar while playing. Calm, not exactly flashy...but they make such incredible defensive plays with quick breakout passes. I think Davidson was showing flashes ~10 games before his injury that he has POTENTIAL to become something great. I recently rewatched his and McDavid's shifts from last season. Most of them at least. His progression through the year was remarkable.

He was depended upon to be "the guy" and took that role very seriously. He was oozing confidence out there and really led our back end. I'm hoping he is able to train hard this offseason after the injury and come to camp a beast.

I am in the minority here, but I think he is a better player than Klefbom right now and a much better player than Sekera. He is our best defenceman as it is. He does everything Sekera does but better. Bigger, faster, more physical. Sekera doesn't make breakout passes. He flips it out at the first sight of trouble.

If you can, I recommend all of you to go back and watch Davidson's last 10-20 games. You can see him getting better and better as each game goes by. I've never seen such blatant improvement from a player. He went from being a #6 to a true #2 defenceman in the span of a season.

Maybe I'm too high on him, but I really saw no flaws in his game. He was a legitimate top pairing defenceman down the stretch. I think he could fit in nicely on a first pairing anchored by a Subban, Doughty, Faulk, Petro, Shattenkirk, etc.

Plus he has an absolute cannon of a shot. I want to see him used on the PP next season unless we bring in some PP specialist D.

I'm with you.

 

[iCanada]

I'm with you.

Me too. I move Klefbom before Davidson any day. It is a bit of a gamble either way, but I think we can afford to move one of them with the stopgap we have in Sekera, and the insurance we have in Nurse / Reinhart.

Our right side is god awful though. It needs to be remedied.

 

[Defsta]

Where else are we getting puck moving defenceman that can reliably complete a stretch pass?

We probably need 2 of them to become a playoff team. That or we need a stud like Letang that can reliably play 30 minutes a night and complete consistent stretch passes. It is probably easier to get two 20 minute a night types.

I think we have a playoff capable forward core. It could be better, but I think when you look at the forward cores of the guys in the NHL, we can easily compete.

Our defence is atrocious though. We have zero puck movers, every team in the dance right now has multiple. We need to acquire multiple from some where. I think Barrie and Seabrook are likely the cheapest on the market.

Maybe Dumba, but I dont think he fits the reliable category at all.



I clearly said I was interested in Seabrook with retention... No one is touching Seabrook at 6.8. You are moving the goalposts here.

That's right we need to capable top 4 two-way dmen or it's another losing season ahead. Barrie would be obvious choice for offer sheet, well it depends if we give Boston our 2nd this year. And upcoming expansion draft (we'll see that in few weeks) will give us more options.

I know what u said, but if you're realistic Chicago doesn't want retetention and neither want any other team. And Hawks can't even take it, so their only chance is trade Seabrook pick + prospects, so why would we give them Klefbom?

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

Me too. I move Klefbom before Davidson any day. It is a bit of a gamble either way, but I think we can afford to move one of them with the stopgap we have in Sekera, and the insurance we have in Nurse / Reinhart.

Our right side is god awful though. It needs to be remedied.

I hate this idea but it intrigues me.

Klefbom has been coveted by more than one GM I think....but I don't know his value.

I'd rather play him on the offside then move him for Hamonic though. Davidson for Hamonic I'd do. ....obviously.

 

[duul]

I hate this idea but it intrigues me.

Klefbom has been coveted by more than one GM I think....but I don't know his value.

I'd rather play him on the offside then move him for Hamonic though. Davidson for Hamonic I'd do. ....obviously.

I think we are forgetting the last ~8 games, our best pairing was

Oesterle-Davidson

Davidson has shown he is more than capable on the right side of the ice carrying an AHL offensive defenceman against other teams best players. If we can't acquire two very good RHD (Barrie, Hamonic, Vatanen, Subban, Shattenkirk, etc..) then I think Davidson can play the right side perfectly fine.

I know OEL plays the right side a decent amount in Arizona from what I've seen. That guy plays all over the damn ice for them.

edit: Here are the last 7 games he played this season. Huge minutes and a + player on a horrible team while carrying his partners throughout the year.

 

[iCanada]

That's right we need to capable top 4 two-way dmen or it's another losing season ahead. Barrie would be obvious choice for offer sheet, well it depends if we give Boston our 2nd this year. And upcoming expansion draft (we'll see that in few weeks) will give us more options.

I know what u said, but if you're realistic Chicago doesn't want retetention and neither want any other team. And Hawks can't even take it, so their only chance is trade Seabrook pick + prospects, so why would we give them Klefbom?

Klefbom (@4.2) + Pakarinen (@0.7)

for

Seabrook (@ 5.4)[20% / 1.4 retained] + Shaw [Assumed @ 3.5] + pick

This deal would generate about 5 million in cap space for the Hawks on its own. This would give them about 7.5 million in capspace to replace Ladd, and Shaw (assuming Pak takes the 3/4 line tweener spot).

We might "lose" the deal, but it is good asset management, and it would improve our team. It also pretty much solves their cap woes till they need to resign Panarin in 2018.

Maroon-McDavid-Shaw
Hall-Draisaitl-Eberle
Pouliot-RNH-Kassian
Cracknell-Hendo-Klink

Sekera-Seabrook
Davidson-?????
Nurse/Reinhart-Gryba/Pardy

 

[Pointteen]

What would Oshie bring the Oilers? Other than another sub 6", under 200lb skilled winger? Brouwer, yes, he does bring what the Oilers need up front.

Oshie is as puck hungry as it gets. Can throw some good hits and keeps the puck in the offensive end.

 

[Jet Walters]

Oshie is as puck hungry as it gets. Can throw some good hits and keeps the puck in the offensive end.

Sure, if the Oilers got rid of Eberle, RNH, and Yakupov I would have time for him. Right now he would just add to the imbalance.

 

[Mr Positive]

I don't think the league knows about Davidson yet. He has more value to us than to other teams.

 

[oStealthKiller*]

Say no to Seabrook. And kelfbom should not be traded. I'll echo the Davidson praise as well.