Rumour, Trade & Free Agent Discussion

[DRW204]

The question is does he want to convert long term. Both times Maurice moved him back to wing the first good chance he got.

yea for sure, he did play his best hockey this year imo at C. and this team is better depth wise with Wheeler at C.

I am not sure how long he'd have to play C for, it ultimately who/if we draft for C in the 1st round and how they develop. 1-2 years, absolute best case scenario maybe?

I also wonder about Vesalainen long-term with the Jets. Obviously still young, and started to play better with Gus towards the end of the year. If Ves+Niku+(?) can land a quality-mid 20s 2C i'd be down for that.

 

[surixon]

yea for sure, he did play his best hockey this year imo at C. and this team is better depth wise with Wheeler at C.

I am not sure how long he'd have to play C for, it ultimately who/if we draft for C in the 1st round and how they develop. 1-2 years, absolute best case scenario maybe?

I also wonder about Vesalainen long-term with the Jets. Obviously still young, and started to play better with Gus towards the end of the year. If Ves+Niku+(?) can land a quality-mid 20s 2C i'd be down for that.

I'm definitely fine with moving Ves to upgrade at the C position but I am not too concerned with his development to date. I think the org has a plan with him and like with Laine they are building his game from the ground up which takes a bit of time. If he comes back faster and stronger I think he will take off next season.

 

[Hunter368]

The question is does he want to convert long term. Both times Maurice moved him back to wing the first good chance he got.

Personally I don’t think a vet/age like him would get converted to a new position this late in his career. I see Wheeler as a temp 2C only, it’s Chevys job to get a long term solution

 

[surixon]

Personally I don’t think a vet/age like him would get converted to a new position this late in his career. I see Wheeler as a temp 2C only, it’s Chevys job to get a long term solution

I agree with this, don't think either he or Little are solutions there.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Wheeler was actually very serviceable at 2C with Roslovic at 2C.

If Little comes back I wonder if Maurice might push him into the bottom six like he did when they acquired Stastny.

Connor-Scheifele-Laine
Ehlers-Wheeler-Roslovic
Copp-Lowry-Appleton
Perreault-Little-Harkins

Entirely possible but I think Mau will try very hard to keep Wheeler with Scheifele regardless of what Little does.

 

[Whileee]

yea for sure, he did play his best hockey this year imo at C. and this team is better depth wise with Wheeler at C.

I am not sure how long he'd have to play C for, it ultimately who/if we draft for C in the 1st round and how they develop. 1-2 years, absolute best case scenario maybe?

I also wonder about Vesalainen long-term with the Jets. Obviously still young, and started to play better with Gus towards the end of the year. If Ves+Niku+(?) can land a quality-mid 20s 2C i'd be down for that.

I think that both Wheeler and Maurice would prefer to have him at RW, with Scheifele to the most part.

A lot of the Jets future depends on Laine's development. Does he plateau at the level he showed this season, with more scoring? Or does he take another step or two forward as a line driver, to go along with his scoring? The same applies to Connor. Can he take a step forward in his play in his own zone to make him a more positive in tilting play?

If those two forwards take another step forward, then the need for a play driving 2C becomes less important. I'm still not convinced that the Jets can't use some combination of Little, Copp, Roslovic, Harkins in that role, if Laine can become a strong enough play driver to play on the 1st or 2nd line.

In the end, teams tend to have success at even strength in one of two ways: 1) have one overpowering line that out-scores their match-ups, and have the other three lines play at least even vs their match-ups (the Bruins model); 2) have a more balanced line-up, with each line out-scoring opponents.

Generally, top-echelon teams will out-score their opponents by around 30-40 goals at even strength. In 2017/18, Scheifele's line (mostly with Wheeler and Connor) was a net +20 or so at ES, Little and Stastny ended up around + 10 (together), and the rest of the lines were at around +10 (mostly driven by Lowry/Copp).

Going forward in the short-term future, I could see the Jets looking for something similar.

Connor-Scheifele-Wheeler (find some good match-ups and expect that they can outscore by +15)
Ehlers-Little-Laine (further development by Ehlers and Laine, some softer match-ups, with Little providing D cover to get to +5)
Copp-Lowry-Roslovic (a healthy Lowry and some punch from Roslovic, tough match-ups, manage +5)
Perreault-Harkins-Appleton (a responsible, fast line with some punch that can outplay most 4th lines +5)

Continue a strong penalty differential and have a hefty advantage on special teams.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think Suzuki will never happen, but I think Mort hit on the possible solution earlier when trying to explain why Montreal would deal him, and I think the answer could be Ryan Poehling. You look at the packages posters are offering up for Suzuki and perhaps something simpler like Niku for Poehling is the actual answer. Poehling had a difficult rookie year, which is understandable for any player, but his last two seasons at St. Cloud State were really good. He's got size, defensively responsible and is a good play-maker. He doesn't have the greatest speed, but he's a smart player, which can more than make up for a foot-speed issue. A more minor move might be a smarter play here. Niku would fit into Montreal's depth chart on D pretty well, also.

Poehling and Montreal obviously aren't the only solution, but my point with this post is to offer a solution that isn't a giant move, but a more subtle move that can be just as effective. We don't have to trade Ehlers, the 1st, Lowry, Samberg, or any combination of higher valued assets, we could just offer a guy who has value like Niku for another player who has value, like Poehling, and find a fit somewhere there. Players that may be blocked at their position in their current organization who could use a change. Poehling could look really good between any combination of Ehlers, Laine, Connor and Wheeler.

I don't think Poehling is a solution for us. I think he is Habs future 4C. But even at that Niku doesn't get him. And I don't think it is close either. I don't think Niku has much value at all right now.

I agree that Suzuki is a fantasy but the solution has to be someone who is good. Not just someone who can get by. Little, Copp, Roslovic can get by. If we don't get that good player through the draft, we are going to have to pay a high price in trade.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'm definitely fine with moving Ves to upgrade at the C position but I am not too concerned with his development to date. I think the org has a plan with him and like with Laine they are building his game from the ground up which takes a bit of time. If he comes back faster and stronger I think he will take off next season.

Yes, but until he does take off, he doesn't add enough to Niku to be close to getting us a 2C.

This brings up a question. We are used to seeing some prospects take big steps after an off-season, like Harkins this year. How are prospects going to develop under Covid-19 restrictions? Can't skate, can't workout properly, can't get 1:1 personal training help. They will be challenged to avoid losing ground.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Personally I don’t think a vet/age like him would get converted to a new position this late in his career. I see Wheeler as a temp 2C only, it’s Chevys job to get a long term solution

I agree with this, don't think either he or Little are solutions there.

Even if Wheeler plays 2C on a permanent basis he is not the solution. Another 2 years and he won't be capable of it. He and Little will both be on the 3rd line in 3 years.

 

[Hunter368]

Even if Wheeler plays 2C on a permanent basis he is not the solution. Another 2 years and he won't be capable of it. He and Little will both be on the 3rd line in 3 years.

Agreed

 

[Buffdog]

If we're looking for a viable long term 2C option, to me there seems to be two routes:

1. Buy low on someone like Patrick

2. Put Heinola (with maybe a mix of other good assets like 1st, or 2nd, rosie or ves) on the table for someone like domi, strome, kk, cirelli, etc

I loved Heinola after watching him at camp and the early part of the season. With samberg signing (and I'm assuming sliding into the top 4 with either pionk or DeMelo *hopefully we extend him*), there seems to be more of a long term need at 2C than LHD.

You're gonna have to give to get

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think that both Wheeler and Maurice would prefer to have him at RW, with Scheifele to the most part.

A lot of the Jets future depends on Laine's development. Does he plateau at the level he showed this season, with more scoring? Or does he take another step or two forward as a line driver, to go along with his scoring? The same applies to Connor. Can he take a step forward in his play in his own zone to make him a more positive in tilting play?

If those two forwards take another step forward, then the need for a play driving 2C becomes less important. I'm still not convinced that the Jets can't use some combination of Little, Copp, Roslovic, Harkins in that role, if Laine can become a strong enough play driver to play on the 1st or 2nd line.

In the end, teams tend to have success at even strength in one of two ways: 1) have one overpowering line that out-scores their match-ups, and have the other three lines play at least even vs their match-ups (the Bruins model); 2) have a more balanced line-up, with each line out-scoring opponents.

Generally, top-echelon teams will out-score their opponents by around 30-40 goals at even strength. In 2017/18, Scheifele's line (mostly with Wheeler and Connor) was a net +20 or so at ES, Little and Stastny ended up around + 10 (together), and the rest of the lines were at around +10 (mostly driven by Lowry/Copp).

Going forward in the short-term future, I could see the Jets looking for something similar.

Connor-Scheifele-Wheeler (find some good match-ups and expect that they can outscore by +15)
Ehlers-Little-Laine (further development by Ehlers and Laine, some softer match-ups, with Little providing D cover to get to +5)
Copp-Lowry-Roslovic (a healthy Lowry and some punch from Roslovic, tough match-ups, manage +5)
Perreault-Harkins-Appleton (a responsible, fast line with some punch that can outplay most 4th lines +5)

Continue a strong penalty differential and have a hefty advantage on special teams.

Can CSW play well enough defensively to get to +15?

ELL with softer match-ups getting only +5 seems like a terrible waste of Ehlers and Laine. A little more progress from Laine and Little is the weakest player defensively on that line.

The PP will need to be a lot better to have a hefty advantage on ST.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I notice there is not much mention of Eakin recently. Are we assuming he moves on? His choice? Or ours?

That line was playing pretty effectively at the end, both offensively and defensively.

 

[Hunter368]

I notice there is not much mention of Eakin recently. Are we assuming he moves on? His choice? Or ours?

That line was playing pretty effectively at the end, both offensively and defensively.

Maybe move Lowry and sign Eakin? Pro/con to both, but Eakin is better offensively. Not sure what his new cap hit would be

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Maybe move Lowry and sign Eakin? Pro/con to both, but Eakin is better offensively. Not sure what his new cap hit would be

I'm leaning toward moving Lowry anyway. He is only under contract for 1 more year so this will be our last chance to get value for him. If he is extended, it will be for enough term to take him to the point where he has very little trade value left. It will also almost certainly be for too much money.

It isn't that I don't appreciate Lowry and what he brings. It is just about asset management.

Not sure what term and money it would take to sign Eakin but if it is not too much I would like to keep him. He wasn't too enthusiastic to be traded here. That feeling may have faded with time, or he may not want to sign here.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

If we're looking for a viable long term 2C option, to me there seems to be two routes:

1. Buy low on someone like Patrick

2. Put Heinola (with maybe a mix of other good assets like 1st, or 2nd, rosie or ves) on the table for someone like domi, strome, kk, cirelli, etc

I loved Heinola after watching him at camp and the early part of the season. With samberg signing (and I'm assuming sliding into the top 4 with either pionk or DeMelo *hopefully we extend him*), there seems to be more of a long term need at 2C than LHD.

You're gonna have to give to get

^

 

[Whileee]

I notice there is not much mention of Eakin recently. Are we assuming he moves on? His choice? Or ours?

That line was playing pretty effectively at the end, both offensively and defensively.

I don't think the Jets will be able to afford him under the cap. I think they'll put a much higher priority on signing DeMelo, especially if Little returns.

 

[Daximus]

I don't think the Jets will be able to afford him under the cap. I think they'll put a much higher priority on signing DeMelo, especially if Little returns.

Some rumours that the cap might be going down a long with player salaries and cap hits. Will be interesting to see what comes of it.

 

[surixon]

One issue is that any pending FA is likely going to demand is expansion draft protection.

I liked what Eakins brought but given his age and limited upside no way am I interested in guaranteeing a protection spot on him.

I'm also of the mindset that you either try to buy low on C with upside but has some risk associated with it like Patrick or you put some key chips into the pot and go after a proven good/young commodity.

 

[DRW204]

if the cap goes down there'll likely be compliance buy outs right?

 

[Oilpeg]

I don't think Poehling is a solution for us. I think he is Habs future 4C. But even at that Niku doesn't get him. And I don't think it is close either. I don't think Niku has much value at all right now.

I agree that Suzuki is a fantasy but the solution has to be someone who is good. Not just someone who can get by. Little, Copp, Roslovic can get by. If we don't get that good player through the draft, we are going to have to pay a high price in trade.

Is Poehling only projected to be a 4th line center? That's surprising to me, I think he's better than that.

 

[MosTLucky]

If Dylan Strome is actually available I feel like that could be a good option. They’d be looking for young D men in return I’d assume. So maybe Niku + 2nd rounder or a prospect??
Let me know what you think

 

[MosTLucky]

[delete]

 

[surixon]

Is Poehling only projected to be a 4th line center? That's surprising to me, I think he's better than that.

He doesn't look all that promising atm if you ask me. His first pro season was rather poor at both the AHL and NHL level. His NCAA production isn't all that amazing either for a forward.

I just don't see a history that suggests he's likely to produce enough to be a top 6 C.

 

[Huffer]

If Dylan Strome is actually available I feel like that could be a good option. They’d be looking for young D men in return I’d assume. So maybe Niku + 2nd rounder or a prospect??
Let me know what you think

I would be interested in Strome, but personally he's lower on the preferred choice for me compared to other centres we've been discussing on this board (not that all the other C's are actually available). His skating and defensive inadequacies are real. There are a lot of Hawks fans on the main board thread as well as the thread on their board that are honest about it. But, he is a C, and getting young C's is not easy.

As it was indicated on the tweet that started the thread on the main board, I don't think it would cost a big package to get him. He's going to get paid more on his next deal based on putting up some points, and teams have to be wary that his overall game is worth that cap, and if they even have the space.