Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Where's the Beef?

[Soundwave]

Think the cost for Provorov would be a 1st+. It's going to be a sellers market.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Think the cost for Provorov would be a 1st+. It's going to be a buyers market.

I mean then you just don't, plus the Jackets are mildly competitive.

 

[FlameChampion]

Has there been any rumours that the Oilers are planning on waiving Ryan at this point?

 

[brentashton]

The "best" thing for Kostin and the Sharks might just be a mutual contract termination. Yes he loses his payday, but he's not likely to play many more games for SJ at this rate so no one will have any reason to trade for him and he'll just end up going unqualified in the summer. However if they agree to mutually terminate his contract he can still sign for 2x $1M somewhere, guaranteeing he makes the same amount of money and has a contract next season.

He only does that if the agent knows for certain he can get a contract at that value, otherwise why tear up the one he currently has that is guaranteed?

And because the agent can’t overtly shop the player because he’s still under contract (tampering) if things went sideways before he signed a new deal he’d be out on an island.

He may not play in SJ the rest of this year but he isn’t tearing up his payday.

 

[aspin3]

Think the cost for Provorov would be a 1st+. It's going to be a buyers market.

St. Louis' second may be in the top 39.........add another pick to that.

 

[Arpeggio]

He only does that if the agent knows for certain he can get a contract at that value, otherwise why tear up the one he currently has that is guaranteed?

And because the agent can’t overtly shop the player because he’s still under contract (tampering) if things went sideways before he signed a new deal he’d be out on an island.

He may not play in SJ the rest of this year but he isn’t tearing up his payday.

Giving up nearly $2 million for possibly signing for two more years at 1 million is asinine. If he truly believes that San Jose is holding him back, then collect your two million and then walk on to a team next season (though he'll likely get a contract anyway).

The most likely explanation for Kostin being healthied so often is that he really hasn't been that good in the NHL outside of a couple of short stretches. The Oilers can find that type of player elsewhere this season.

 

[brentashton]

Giving up nearly $2 million for possibly signing for two more years at 1 million is asinine. If he truly believes that San Jose is holding him back, then collect your two million and then walk on to a team next season (though he'll likely get a contract anyway).

The most likely explanation for Kostin being healthied so often is that he really hasn't been that good in the NHL outside of a couple of short stretches. The Oilers can find that type of player elsewhere this season.

Agreed. I don’t understand why he’d tear up a guaranteed 2 mil.

 

[belair]

Kostin is proof that this fanbase just needs to see you pop a couple goals and punch a few faces and there'll forever be a lore of how effective you are as a player.

Kostin is alright as a depth guy, but he needs to be given an opportunity to show any sort of positive contribution. And I think that he's had a difficult time finding a coach that trusts him enough to give him that consistent shot.

If he was willing to come back next season on a PTO or league min deal, absolutely. But I don't see the role he takes on a playoff roster, so why spend the assets?

 

[Soundwave]

Kostin is proof that this fanbase just needs to see you pop a couple goals and punch a few faces and there'll forever be a lore of how effective you are as a player.

Kostin is alright as a depth guy, but he needs to be given an opportunity to show any sort of positive contribution. And I think that he's had a difficult time finding a coach that trusts him enough to give him that consistent shot.

If he was willing to come back next season on a PTO or league min deal, absolutely. But I don't see the role he takes on a playoff roster, so why spend the assets?

Those types of gambles are what we are going to have to rely on to inject youth into the roster more or less.

We've screwed up our drafting and our picks for the next 2-3 years are likely out the door not that they'd make any difference in the immediate window we have anyway.

As portions of our roster are getting older, we need to reinject younger players.

Kostin scored at a 16 goal rate here with no time with McDavid/Draisaitl, pretty much exclusively bottom 6 minutes, no PP time. I'm pretty sure Foegele, McLeod, Holloway, etc. even wouldn't be able to manage that, then he potted several goals in round 1 or maybe we don't even make it past LA that year which would have been a significant blow to the group's confidence.

Kostin is one of the few buy low oppurtunities that's actually worked out for us, why shouldn't we be interested if the cost is low. We need a replacement for Evander Kane next season anyway (maybe even this season, he's getting a ton of surgery, there's no telling if he can burden the physical toll the team will ask of him in the playoffs) at a fraction of the cost.

We do we lack on our forward chart ... well after losing McLeod/Holloway/Foegele, we do lack speed. Kostin is fast. We lack physical forwards, well Kostin is physical. We have a distinct lack of one shot scorers still, well Kostin has a very good shot. And we need players on the cheap who can fill in for more expensive players as we're going to have to spend a lot on McDavid/Drai/Bouchard's extensions. He can be had for cheap and likely re-upped for cheap.

If he comes back in and scores at a 15 goal rate from your bottom 6 again, that's basically like getting a free 1st round pick (no.15-32 range), for a team that has no 1st this season and probably will have to ship out its 2026 1st too, I don't really get the extreme reluctance.

 

[Fourier]

Kostin is proof that this fanbase just needs to see you pop a couple goals and punch a few faces and there'll forever be a lore of how effective you are as a player.

Kostin is alright as a depth guy, but he needs to be given an opportunity to show any sort of positive contribution. And I think that he's had a difficult time finding a coach that trusts him enough to give him that consistent shot.

If he was willing to come back next season on a PTO or league min deal, absolutely. But I don't see the role he takes on a playoff roster, so why spend the assets?

For me the Oilers were a great fit for Kostin. His skill set complemented the team very well but they did not need him to do things that he was not capable of doing. His production was almost optional so there was no pressure on him to be more than he was. This is why I have said previously that taking the money too early could be a double edge sword. Had he signed for say $1.3M he may well have been riding shotgun with Leon rather than Podkolzin right now. Being healthy scratched with SJ could be a ticket back to the KHL. That is the danger of cashing in before you may be really ready. Now maybe in the end he still ends up with more money. But it is not 100% always the case.

 

[Fourier]

Those types of gambles are what we are going to have to rely on to inject youth into the roster more or less.

We've screwed up our drafting and our picks for the next 2-3 years are likely out the door not that they'd make any difference in the immediate window we have anyway.

As portions of our roster are getting older, we need to reinject younger players.

Kostin scored at a 16 goal rate here with no time with McDavid/Draisaitl, pretty much exclusively bottom 6 minutes, no PP time. I'm pretty sure Foegele, McLeod, Holloway, etc. even wouldn't be able to manage that, then he potted several goals in round 1 or maybe we don't even make it past LA that year which would have been a significant blow to the group's confidence.

Kostin is one of the few buy low oppurtunities that's actually worked out for us, why shouldn't we be interested if the cost is low. We need a replacement for Evander Kane next season anyway (maybe even this season, he's getting a ton of surgery, there's no telling if he can burden the physical toll the team will ask of him in the playoffs) at a fraction of the cost.

We do we lack on our forward chart ... well after losing McLeod/Holloway/Foegele, we do lack speed. Kostin is fast. We lack physical forwards, well Kostin is physical. We have a distinct lack of one shot scorers still, well Kostin has a very good shot. And we need players on the cheap who can fill in for more expensive players as we're going to have to spend a lot on McDavid/Drai/Bouchard's extensions. He can be had for cheap and likely re-upped for cheap.

If he comes back in and scores at a 15 goal rate from your bottom 6 again, that's basically like getting a free 1st round pick (no.15-32 range), for a team that has no 1st this season and probably will have to ship out its 2026 1st too, I don't really get the extreme reluctance.

For me the Oilers were a great fit for Kostin as much as he was a fit for the team. His skill set complemented the team very well but they did not need him to do things that he was not capable of doing. His production was almost optional so there was no pressure on him to be more than he was. This is why I have said previously that taking the money too early could be a double edge sword. Had he signed for say $1.2M he may well have been riding shotgun with Leon right now rather than Podkolzin. In contrast being healthy scratched with SJ could be a ticket back to the KHL. That is the danger of cashing in before you may be really ready. Now maybe in the end he still ends up with more money. But it is not 100% always the case.

I think that it is possible that the Oilers could get him out of SJ with double retention pretty cheaply at the deadline. The real cost would be about $275K to the first team and about $190K to the second team. This is maybe a 2026 5th and a 27th 6th. If they did that it is even possible that they get him to sign for next year at close to league minimum.

 

[Soundwave]

For me the Oilers were a great fit for Kostin as much as he was a fit for the team. His skill set complemented the team very well but they did not need him to do things that he was not capable of doing. His production was almost optional so there was no pressure on him to be more than he was. This is why I have said previously that taking the money too early could be a double edge sword. Had he signed for say $1.2M he may well have been riding shotgun with Leon right now rather than Podkolzin. In contrast being healthy scratched with SJ could be a ticket back to the KHL. That is the danger of cashing in before you may be really ready. Now maybe in the end he still ends up with more money. But it is not 100% always the case.

I think that it is possible that the Oilers could get him out of SJ with double retention pretty cheaply at the deadline. The real cost would be about $275K to the first team and about $190K to the second team. This is maybe a 2026 5th and a 27th 6th. If they did that it is even possible that they get him to sign for next year at close to league minimum.

Exactly. We need to get better at hunting down good buy low opportunities, especially for players in that 20-26 age range to keep injecting some youth into the lineup.

Then hopefully one or two of Jarventie, Savoie, O'Reilly, Akey, can be developed well too.

That Blues offer sheet really sucked, we should have made our RFAs a bigger priority. All you can do now is be vigilant on the open market for opportunities, Kostin is already kinda test driven one.

Maybe he and Podz can become good buds too, never a bad thing to have more locker room cohesion.

I also like the idea of (for a low cost) becoming a more physical team. Most NHL teams are moving away from that, but that also could leave them vulnerable in a playoff match up to get pushed around and worn down by a more physical team.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

For me the Oilers were a great fit for Kostin as much as he was a fit for the team. His skill set complemented the team very well but they did not need him to do things that he was not capable of doing. His production was almost optional so there was no pressure on him to be more than he was. This is why I have said previously that taking the money too early could be a double edge sword. Had he signed for say $1.2M he may well have been riding shotgun with Leon right now rather than Podkolzin. In contrast being healthy scratched with SJ could be a ticket back to the KHL. That is the danger of cashing in before you may be really ready. Now maybe in the end he still ends up with more money. But it is not 100% always the case.

I think that it is possible that the Oilers could get him out of SJ with double retention pretty cheaply at the deadline. The real cost would be about $275K to the first team and about $190K to the second team. This is maybe a 2026 5th and a 27th 6th. If they did that it is even possible that they get him to sign for next year at close to league minimum.

Have there been any examples of a 4-team trade where Teams #2 and #3 retain salary for Team #4?

I can't think of any examples

 

[Fourier]

Have there been any examples of a 4-team trade where Teams #2 and #3 retain salary for Team #4?

I can't think of any examples

I can't think of any but it's not a really complicated deal to make since you really only have one player moving. Had Holland been the GM, I'd have never suggested it as a realistic move. But this Oiler management seems to have way more creativity.

 

[belair]

Those types of gambles are what we are going to have to rely on to inject youth into the roster more or less.

We've screwed up our drafting and our picks for the next 2-3 years are likely out the door not that they'd make any difference in the immediate window we have anyway.

As portions of our roster are getting older, we need to reinject younger players.

Kostin scored at a 16 goal rate here with no time with McDavid/Draisaitl, pretty much exclusively bottom 6 minutes, no PP time. I'm pretty sure Foegele, McLeod, Holloway, etc. even wouldn't be able to manage that, then he potted several goals in round 1 or maybe we don't even make it past LA that year which would have been a significant blow to the group's confidence.

Kostin is one of the few buy low oppurtunities that's actually worked out for us, why shouldn't we be interested if the cost is low. We need a replacement for Evander Kane next season anyway (maybe even this season, he's getting a ton of surgery, there's no telling if he can burden the physical toll the team will ask of him in the playoffs) at a fraction of the cost.

We do we lack on our forward chart ... well after losing McLeod/Holloway/Foegele, we do lack speed. Kostin is fast. We lack physical forwards, well Kostin is physical. We have a distinct lack of one shot scorers still, well Kostin has a very good shot. And we need players on the cheap who can fill in for more expensive players as we're going to have to spend a lot on McDavid/Drai/Bouchard's extensions. He can be had for cheap and likely re-upped for cheap.

If he comes back in and scores at a 15 goal rate from your bottom 6 again, that's basically like getting a free 1st round pick (no.15-32 range), for a team that has no 1st this season and probably will have to ship out its 2026 1st too, I don't really get the extreme reluctance.

I don't disagree that the Oilers are going to need to take these types of low cost gambles to fill out their depth, particularly at forward, on the cheap.

But in regards to Kostin, it's important to look at the player without the rose-colored glasses. He's struggling and there's a lot of evidence that he's a player with a very limited game. He needed playing time with our skill guys the first time around to score at that rate and we have a significantly deeper roster on wing than we had his first go around. He doesn't PK, he's known for taking bad penalties and it's easy to see him falling out of favour if the plan is throwing him out there with our fourth line.

If I'm throwing out the 5th and the 6th that @Fourier is suggesting it would cost, I think I prefer using that trade capital targeting an upgrade at 4C. Jake Evans is a player who makes a similar salary and brings a lot more to the table. Kostin just doesn't add much to this roster for me to be willing to spend the picks.

 

[Soundwave]

I don't disagree that the Oilers are going to need to take these types of low cost gambles to fill out their depth, particularly at forward, on the cheap.

But in regards to Kostin, it's important to look at the player without the rose-colored glasses. He's struggling and there's a lot of evidence that he's a player with a very limited game. He needed playing time with our skill guys the first time around to score at that rate and we have a significantly deeper roster on wing than we had his first go around. He doesn't PK, he's known for taking bad penalties and it's easy to see him falling out of favour if the plan is throwing him out there with our fourth line.

If I'm throwing out the 5th and the 6th that @Fourier is suggesting it would cost, I think I prefer using that trade capital targeting an upgrade at 4C. Jake Evans is a player who makes a similar salary and brings a lot more to the table. Kostin just doesn't add much to this roster for me to be willing to spend the picks.

Your second paragraph there isn't true though. Kostin didn't get to play much with Draisaitl and very little with McDavid. Same with the playoffs.

Most of his goals are assisted by Derek Ryan, Janmark, etc., he didn't score a single goal with McDavid or Draisaitl having an assist.

It's actually quite impressive that he scored at a 16 goal rate without McD/Drai ... I don't think RNH would score 16 goals without being stapled to one of those two.

 

[Canovin]

I don't disagree that the Oilers are going to need to take these types of low cost gambles to fill out their depth, particularly at forward, on the cheap.

But in regards to Kostin, it's important to look at the player without the rose-colored glasses. He's struggling and there's a lot of evidence that he's a player with a very limited game. He needed playing time with our skill guys the first time around to score at that rate and we have a significantly deeper roster on wing than we had his first go around. He doesn't PK, he's known for taking bad penalties and it's easy to see him falling out of favour if the plan is throwing him out there with our fourth line.

If I'm throwing out the 5th and the 6th that @Fourier is suggesting it would cost, I think I prefer using that trade capital targeting an upgrade at 4C. Jake Evans is a player who makes a similar salary and brings a lot more to the table. Kostin just doesn't add much to this roster for me to be willing to spend the picks.

Jake Evans would replace Derek Ryan. Kostin plays RW.

If the Oilers don't trade for Kostin at the deadline, I hope they sign him next year as he would replace Perry and probably cost close to league minimum

 

[belair]

Your second paragraph there isn't true though. Kostin didn't get to play much with Draisaitl and very little with McDavid. Same with the playoffs.

Most of his goals are assisted by Derek Ryan, Janmark, etc., he didn't score a single goal with McDavid or Draisaitl having an assist.

It's actually quite impressive that he scored at a 16 goal rate without McD/Drai ... I don't think RNH would score 16 goals without being stapled to one of those two.

Look at the scoring logs. He was playing with the 2nd line for a period of time. He played quite a bit with Ryan Nugent-Hopkins and had a pretty decent goal differential. He played well with Mattias Janmark for a time, but that's the guy he'd be replacing.

We're romanticizing a guy who thrived in a situation that no longer exists on the current Edmonton roster.

Jake Evans would replace Derek Ryan. Kostin plays RW.

If the Oilers don't trade for Kostin at the deadline, I hope they sign him next year as he would replace Perry and probably cost close to league minimum

We have no need to add depth at RW the way this team is currently built.

Though I agree. Next fall I'd be more than happy to see him in camp on a PTO or on a league min deal.

 

[Soundwave]

Look at the scoring logs. He was playing with the 2nd line for a period of time. He played quite a bit with Ryan Nugent-Hopkins and had a pretty decent goal differential. He played well with Mattias Janmark for a time, but that's the guy he'd be replacing.

We're romanticizing a guy who thrived in a situation that no longer exists on the current Edmonton roster.

We have no need to add depth at RW the way this team is currently built.

Though I agree. Next fall I'd be more than happy to see him in camp on a PTO or on a league min deal.

RNH has major problems producing at 5 on 5 even with McDavid or Drai, without them he's almost useless offensively, so if Kostin can be an option with RNH, along with producing with the likes of Janmark (who's been a black hole of suck this season thus far), that's not exactly a bad thing. Henrique is seriously struggling to find offense with his wingers too.

Evander Kane has to be replaced long term too, it's not fair to put all the physical load of the forward group all on Podkolzin's shoulders.

He played well here and is young and fast and hits and fights. That's not romanticizing a player, those are just the facts. For a team that frankly sucks at buying low and sucks at developing young players, I think maybe the bigger question is do we even have the luxury of looking off good oppurtunities on young players at a low cost? I don't think we do.

The team hasn't changed enough to the point where we couldn't use a player like Kostin even in the playoffs there's no guarantee Kane doesn't just reinjure himself quickly.

 

[Spawn]

I mean then you just don't, plus the Jackets are mildly competitive.

Why not? He's a big minute d-man who is proving this year he can play on the right side.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Why not? He's a big minute d-man who is proving this year he can play on the right side.

He's going to cost too much and other things. Probably best not to, there will be other options.

Sincerely, they need to explore, very strongly, moving on from Nurse, they need people in the front office dedicated to it.

Plus that player would ONLY be a rental, he'll go sign in Florida or something as a free agent.

 

[belair]

RNH has major problems producing at 5 on 5 even with McDavid or Drai, without them he's almost useless offensively, so if Kostin can be an option with RNH, along with producing with the likes of Janmark (who's been a black hole of suck this season thus far), that's not exactly a bad thing. Henrique is seriously struggling to find offense with his wingers too.

Evander Kane has to be replaced long term too, it's not fair to put all the physical load of the forward group all on Podkolzin's shoulders.

He played well here and is young and fast and hits and fights. That's not romanticizing a player, those are just the facts. For a team that frankly sucks at buying low and sucks at developing young players, I think maybe the bigger question is do we even have the luxury of looking off good oppurtunities on young players at a low cost? I don't think we do.

The team hasn't changed enough to the point where we couldn't use a player like Kostin even in the playoffs there's no guarantee Kane doesn't just reinjure himself quickly.

The key to players like RNH or Henrique finding offense at even strength isn't Klim Kostin. There are a handful of higher end forwards that are currently struggling to find consistent offense and that isn't likely to continue throughout the season.

With Hyman, RV, Brown and Perry, there simply isn't a need at RW. With RNH, Skinner, Podkolzin and Janmark at LW, it's difficult to see him getting a consistent look. The forward role they need to see the upgrade is at 4C. And Kostin ain't it.

 

[Spawn]

He's going to cost too much and other things. Probably best not to, there will be other options.

Sincerely, they need to explore, very strongly, moving on from Nurse, they need people in the front office dedicated to it.

Plus that player would ONLY be a rental, he'll go sign in Florida or something as a free agent.

What other options?

As for moving on from Nurse.... all of a sudden you're in desperate need of two top 4 d-men instead of one. Agree to disagree on that one.

And yes, the plyer might only be a rental. This is also the teams best chance to win a cup. Every year that goes on and our core gets a year older, our chances to win a cup will go down.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

What other options?

As for moving on from Nurse.... all of a sudden you're in desperate need of two top 4 d-men instead of one. Agree to disagree on that one.

And yes, the plyer might only be a rental. This is also the teams best chance to win a cup. Every year that goes on and our core gets a year older, our chances to win a cup will go down.

There are other players out there, it's still just barely November, they will become apparent.

I guess, I don't know how much he'll bring on a run, and all that cost for a rental who's looking at his destination for next season.

So guys that are pending UFAs

Pionk, Orlov, Pettersson, Chychrun, Gavrikov, & Dumoulin

Plus there are bunch of other guys.

 

[belair]

There are other players out there, it's still just barely November, they will become apparent.

I guess, I don't know how much he'll bring on a run, and all that cost for a rental who's looking at his destination for next season.

So guys that are pending UFAs

Pionk, Orlov, Pettersson, Chychrun, Gavrikov, & Dumoulin

Plus there are bunch of other guys.

If you trade for Provorov, odds are you're looking at making the room to extend him at around $6m AAV. He's still young enough to give you good seasons for the majority of a long term extension. And he gives you all of what you lost with Broberg, but also a more refined game.

Provorov is interesting because he's had some questions regarding the consistency of his game. There are reasons why he may not be asking for the moon on an extension. And as a deadline add, his cap hit will be significantly less than anyone else of significance on the likely D market.