Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | The Road to the Draft June 28th and 29th

[Soundwave]

Why is the marker a goalies first two rounds? You're arbitrarily setting boundaries to determine who is good and bad and it's illogical. MAF had multiple shit years after winning a cup with Pittsburgh. So did Matt Murray. Vasi is one of the best goalies on the planet and is not even a remotely fair comparison, nevermind the fact that the defense in front of him has been miles better than that of Skinners.

Again you're setting arbitrary goalposts and arguing in poor faith.

Because that's the relevant comparable for Skinner at this stage (he's played 2 rounds and was shit in both of them). So I went and looked and compared to other goalies that have had some track record of playoff success to some degree and compared what their first two playoff rounds were like.

Hey maybe this is a common thing, young goalies shitting the bed their first couple of rounds in the playoffs. But that's not really the case when you look at it.

This idea that all young goalies are expected to be shit to start their playoff careers is not true. Most guys who are good playoff performers are actually decent to good from the start.

 

[GOilers88]

Because that's the relevant comparable for Skinner at this stage (he's played 2 rounds and was shit in both of them). So I went and looked and compared to other goalies that have had some track record of playoff success to some degree and compared what their first two playoff rounds were like.

This idea that all young goalies are shit to start in the playoffs is not true. Most guys who are good playoff performers are actually good from the start.

Nobody has said all good young goalies are shit to start.

But you're ignoring that fact that every guy you've listed has had poor outings in the playoffs with comparable numbers to Skinners this year. The only difference is every one of those guys has had multiple trips to go back and do better. But you're just arbitrarily saying that because Stu's first go round was bad that means he won't improve despite him showing he is capable of much better this season.

Jake Oettinger is a really good comparable right now. His first two rounds last year were phenomenal. This year was the opposite and he ended with numbers similar to Skinner. Skinner could just as likely put up a run like Oettinger did last year in his next go round and they'd be almost identical. Would Skinner still not be as good simply because his better season came in his second year and not his first? And if Oettinger is such a great playoff performer based on your logic on his stats last year, what the hell does this year mean?

You're totally just making stuff up and making random markers to fit your argument here. There's no real logic or reason to it.

 

[McTonyBrar]

I don't think Holland has the balls to do what needs to be done, but lets see what happens.

This is just too big for him, he's too old fashioned and uncreative to get this done.

You need to be ruthless like Vegas' front office.



Do you want to compare to other goalies first two playoff rounds as starters? I was comparing to those guys' first two playoff rounds as starters and quite often they were the same age as Stu or even younger.

Shitting the bed twice like that doesn't happen as often as people here think it does.

That's a definite red flag for Skinner and there's definite reason to doubt his ability to get the job done here when it matters.

Holland got us Ekholm. Ruthless like Vegas front office? Sorry man but all I’ve seen is the NHL officials, Gary Farttman etc kissing the Golden Knights ass and showing favouritism. This is happening in the Florida series as well.

 

[SwedishFire]

Trading McLeod would not be smart. He’s ready to breakout


Sorry but what has Holland done that is so awful? Honestly it’s like every GM our team gets the fans just jump on as being terrible. Are people really this ignorant?

Agreed! Holland has turned shit into something. OK. It took some years with some bad signings like Jurco, Chiasson and Kahun. But it went well. Kahun could bra a good 3rd liner I think though.

 

[Soundwave]

Nobody has said all good young goalies are shit to start.

But you're ignoring that fact that every guy you've listed has had poor outings in the playoffs with comparable numbers to Skinners this year. The only difference is every one of those guys has had multiple trips to go back and do better. But you're just arbitrarily saying that because Stu's first go round was bad that means he won't improve despite him showing he is capable of much better this season.

Jake Oettinger is a really good comparable right now. His first two rounds last year were phenomenal. This year was the opposite and he ended with numbers similar to Skinner. Skinner could just as likely put up a run like Oettinger did last year in his next go round and they'd be almost identical. Would Skinner still not be as good simply because his better season came in his second year and not his first? And if Oettinger is such a great playoff performer based on your logic on his stats last year, what the hell does this year mean?

You're totally just making stuff up and making random markers to fit your argument here. There's no real logic or reason to it.

That's based on a lot of hypotheticals, like for one who says Oettinger is some playoff god either?

Right now the reality is we don't even know if Stuart Skinner is even a Mike Smith tier goalie and there's no reason to just assume he will improve massively.

Usually guys who are big ticket playoff goalies show you a little something something even early in their playoff careers (a big time performance in a game here or there). We got none of that with Skinner.

We've done that with many younger players here (or players in their first year) ... assumed big growth was not only coming but gaurunteed and it then it doesn't happen and you look at it and see a lot of red flags evident even early in their careers.

So I'm just looking at this in the here and now, Campbell and Skinner have 3 bad playoff rounds between them out of 4 played. That's not good. I'm not sure why as Oiler fans we're being sold this narrative that we should have faith/trust in this goaltending tandem. They've done nothing to earn that specifically in playoff situations. I wouldn't feel comfortable with either of these guys if the playoffs started again tomorrow.

 

[GOilers88]

That's based on a lot of hypotheticals, like for one who says Oettinger is some playoff god either?

Right now the reality is we don't even know if Stuart Skinner is even a Mike Smith tier goalie and there's no reason to just assume he will improve massively.

We've done that with many younger players here (or players in their first year) ... assumed big growth was coming and it then it doesn't happen.

So I'm just looking at this in the here and now, Campbell and Skinner have 3 bad playoff rounds between them out of 4 played. That's not good.

The team doesn't need massive growth out of Skinner. They need him to play like he did last season. Kid played 62 games last year. I think it's safe to say he was probably a little fatigued by the end of it.

Your reasoning of a goalies first two rounds being an indicator of whether or not they're a big game goalie says Oettinger is a guy we should want in the playoffs. Because his first two rounds shows us he can bring it.

Yet it didn't carry over this year. So why is it not a fair assumption that the same can hold true for Stu? This is what I mean, you're all over the map.

Mike Smith was also a very good playoff goalie over his career. Let's stop pretending he's some replacement level guy.

 

[Soundwave]

The team doesn't need massive growth out of Skinner. They need him to play like he did last season. Kid played 62 games last year. I think it's safe to say he was probably a little fatigued by the end of it.

Your reasoning of a goalies first two rounds being an indicator of whether or not they're a big game goalie says Oettinger is a guy we should want in the playoffs. Because his first two rounds shows us he can bring it.

Yet it didn't carry over this year. So why is it not a fair assumption that the same can hold true for Stu? This is what I mean, you're all over the map.

We need massively better than .880 goaltending. We probably need better than .915 to be frank, Mike Smith was what .913 in the playoffs last year and it was nowhere near good enough.

Pittsburgh got .925+ in their last two Cups, Washington had .920+ the year they won. And it's harder to hit that number in the playoffs when the pressure cooker is on, .920 regular season and .920 playoffs are two very different things.

We had the worst starter in the regular season, and then we had the worst starter in the playoffs through two rounds. Like sorry, but I don't see why we're supposed to feel good about that in a situation where we need to win ASAP.

Would anyone fall out of their chair in shock if you were told with this goaltending tandem Pittsburgh and Washington have zero Cups? I wouldn't, I'd say that sounds about right.

 

[GOilers88]

We need massively better than .880 goaltending. We probably need better than .915 to be frank, Mike Smith was what .913 in the playoffs last year and it was nowhere near good enough.

Pittsburgh got .925+ in their last two Cups, Washington had .920+ the year they won. And it's harder to hit that number in the playoffs when the pressure cooker is on, .920 regular season and .920 playoffs are two very different things.

We had the worst starter in the regular season, and then we had the worst starter in the playoffs through two rounds. Like sorry, but I don't see why we're supposed to feel good about that in a situation where we need to win ASAP.

Would anyone fall out of their chair in shock if you were told with this goaltending tandem Pittsburgh and Washington have zero Cups? I wouldn't, I'd say that sounds about right.

Colorado had .902 with Kuemper last year and won the cup.

Again you're just making arbitrary lines and insinuating they must be met or it will only be failure.

 

[Soundwave]

Looking at a guy like Holtby ... he gave the Caps .940 or better *twice* in two playoffs ... and Washington still lost before they finally won in a run where he was "only" .922. Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeebus. What would McDavid and Draisaitl do with playoff goaltending like that?

The goaltending Crosby/Malkin and Ovechkin have gotten in their careers come playoff time is almost unbelievably better than the turd sandwhiches McDavid and Draisaitl get here.

I'd give my left nut for McDavid/Drai to have .920 flat in the playoffs.

Colorado had .902 with Kuemper last year and won the cup.

Again you're just making arbitrary lines and insinuating they must be met or it will only be failure.

He suffered a serious, potentially life altering eye injury in the playoffs that impacted those numbers, again I'm pretty sure you knew that and just omitted that huge detail. I'm pretty sure being able to see properly is a factor in a goalie's play.

But fine, you want to be Colorado? You think you can win with a Francouz? Great. Now just find a d corps with Makar and Toews and Manson and Byram as your 1, 2, 3, and 4 and now McDavid and Draisaitl have the same oppurtunity that MacKinnon and Rantanen had.

Otherwise that's not even remotely comparable.

All these guys ... Crosby/Malkin, Ovechkin/Backstrom, MacKinnon/Rantanen are getting waaaaaay more crucial help either on D or in net than the shit McDavid/Draisaitl are told to win a Cup with.

 

[McJadeddog]

That's true, luck has a big part to do with it.

That said, the Oilers (specifically management) really hasn't earned the right to kick up their feet on the desk and say "mission accomplished! We've done as much work as other Cup winners have, now it's just up to the boys to get it done".

Which Cup winner has a Cody Ceci as their top right D? Pittsburgh, a team that's won Cups had this guy playing on their bottom pairing for a good reason.

How many Cup winners have 4 rookies/sophomore players on their backend playing critical playoff minutes and making (as expected) a shit ton of mistakes? None except Edmonton.

How many Cup winners have both an average-to-mediocre goaltending and defence? So basically who has won by just sheer offence? It's not Pittsburgh or Washington for people who want to say that either, Pittsburgh has had good goaltending in all their Cup wins, Washington had great goaltending and solid D the year they won theirs.

You can't win 4 playoff rounds without both a D and a goaltending that can't outright win a game on their own here and there. You can't just expect to win that many rounds with two offensive players just outscoring the world. You can win a round or two, sure, but they need some help. The last time we had a third player that arguably helped us win playoff games on nights where maybe Leon or Connor didn't have it was Cam Talbot.

The last two years the goaltending in the playoffs has been no where near good enough. Not even close. If you want to say you're in the business of winning Cups, that's not close.

I obviously agree with this. The club should be actively trying to improve our areas of weakness, which are D and G. No doubt. All I'm saying is that considering the current makeup of the team, it is going to be very difficult to make big moves there. Secondly, if you were to make some bigger moves, I would start on D, because G stuff is so freaking RANDOM most of the time. If I'm pushing all my chips into the middle of the table, I want the highest probability of success for that large bet. Unless you are getting 1 of those rare 45 goalies that are "safer" picks, then you place bets on D. At least that is how I would do it, but I'm just some rando on the internet, lol

 

[Soundwave]

I obviously agree with this. The club should be actively trying to improve our areas of weakness, which are D and G. No doubt. All I'm saying is that considering the current makeup of the team, it is going to be very difficult to make big moves there. Secondly, if you were to make some bigger moves, I would start on D, because G stuff is so freaking RANDOM most of the time. If I'm pushing all my chips into the middle of the table, I want the highest probability of success for that large bet. Unless you are getting 1 of those rare 45 goalies that are "safer" picks, then you place bets on D. At least that is how I would do it, but I'm just some rando on the internet, lol

This organization has to decide do they want to do what it difficult or do they want 10-20+ years of regret.

All of the sudden "difficult" doesn't seem so bad.

It's supposed to be hard to build a good team anyway. You think it was easy for Vegas to make the Eichel trade? Or Pietrangelo trade? Or tell MAF cya later? Tell James Neal to take a walk as a UFA after going to a Cup Final? Or trade away players like Cody Glass (1st round pick)?

You got to be able to make hard decisions quickly and strike when the iron is hot.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Trading McLeod would not be smart. He’s ready to breakout

... in pimples or hives? Now that you've finally made the commitment to move on from Yamamoto... McLeod is your next lost cause?

McClouder71
McClouder17
McMcClouder
McClouder Speed

Sorry but what has Holland done that is so awful? Honestly it’s like every GM our team gets the fans just jump on as being terrible. Are people really this ignorant?

He saddled us with a roster that we can't win with, placed us firmly in the center of cap hell and hired a coach who gets outcoached by actual good coaches.

Holland got us Ekholm. Ruthless like Vegas front office? Sorry man but all I’ve seen is the NHL officials, Gary Farttman etc kissing the Golden Knights ass and showing favouritism. This is happening in the Florida series as well.

Failure to accept the roster isn't deep enough, the GM f***ed us and the coach can't coach when it counts.

"Gary Farttman" is classic. Because the NHL under Farttman stinks for Canada. Twenty-eight years and No Cup for Canada. Twenty-eight years with the Farttman.

 

[Anarchism]

Trading McLeod would not be smart. He’s ready to breakout


Sorry but what has Holland done that is so awful? Honestly it’s like every GM our team gets the fans just jump on as being terrible. Are people really this ignorant?

1) Did you just call me ignorant? If you have done this I would appreciate it if you would retract that. If you don't well you are in for some stormy water.
2) McLeod continues to improve on the PK.
3) Holland has made numerous mistakes. Presently we are discussing our team make up/personnel situation after a 2nd round exit. The mistakes are obvious ...Holland's defiences obvious. When you have our Dynamic Duo relying on tic tac toe PPs to score so much and cheating for offense they inevitably bleed chances against. It can work during the season. But in the playoffs you need strong D and at least average goaltending and a strong defensive 3rd line. PP oppurtunites are less in the playoffs and a team that loses 5 on 5 ...even though they score a power play goal or two ....well they are easy to isolate. Vegas is a much better team than us. We need 4 to 6 changes in personnel .....Relying on rookies for your 6 n7 D wont cut it, obviously the desperation move and 5 year contract to Campbell was a huge mistake for a guy without a long proven history of winning. Not selling JP two and a half years ago....etc etc etc.

 

[Anarchism]

I don't think Holland has the balls to do what needs to be done, but lets see what happens.

This is just too big for him, he's too old fashioned and uncreative to get this done.

You need to be ruthless like Vegas' front office.



Do you want to compare to other goalies first two playoff rounds as starters? I was comparing to those guys' first two playoff rounds as starters and quite often they were the same age as Stu or even younger.

Shitting the bed twice like that doesn't happen as often as people here think it does.

That's a definite red flag for Skinner and there's definite reason to doubt his ability to get the job done here when it matters.

I spoke in a similar vane about Holland earlier and someone, obviously someone with huge hockey prowess, decided to call me ignorant.
Maybe one day Skinner will be able to tandem as a starter????

 

[Soundwave]

Holland got us Ekholm. Ruthless like Vegas front office? Sorry man but all I’ve seen is the NHL officials, Gary Farttman etc kissing the Golden Knights ass and showing favouritism. This is happening in the Florida series as well.

He's brought in Ekholm and Kulak as D adds to replace Klefbom and Larsson and taken 4 seasons to do that. Ceci can't play the role the Oilers are asking him to and Barrie was an OK PP stop gap and not much more.

I'd say that's probably a wash at best. 16-17 Oilers is still probably the best overall blue line the Oilers have had in the McDavid era.

If Vegas had McDavid and Draisaitl I think they would be far more proactive in making sure they have a Cup potential team to play with. Probably wouldn't even be close.

Florida too ... who thinks the Oilers would have the balls to trade Huberdeau and Weegar for Tkachuk after the season Florida had last year? Edmonton would've been content with the regular season success and signed Huberdeau to anything he wanted, Florida knew they weren't gonna win with that floater.

You can complain about advantages these markets have, but their management is also not afraid to make the big ticket moves when big impact players are there to be had, the Oilers needed 8 years to move a 1st to get McDavid some help finally. We're way too passive of an organization, which would be great if it meant we made great shrewd moves out of patience, but we don't really even do that. Other teams find diamonds in the rough way better than we do (Vegas again, look at all the under the radar players they've picked up that are contributing).

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

We need massively better than .880 goaltending. We probably need better than .915 to be frank, Mike Smith was what .913 in the playoffs last year and it was nowhere near good enough.

Pittsburgh got .925+ in their last two Cups, Washington had .920+ the year they won. And it's harder to hit that number in the playoffs when the pressure cooker is on, .920 regular season and .920 playoffs are two very different things.

We had the worst starter in the regular season, and then we had the worst starter in the playoffs through two rounds. Like sorry, but I don't see why we're supposed to feel good about that in a situation where we need to win ASAP.

Would anyone fall out of their chair in shock if you were told with this goaltending tandem Pittsburgh and Washington have zero Cups? I wouldn't, I'd say that sounds about right.

So on the high end a SC Winning goaltender might expect 750 shots (though generally less) with that in mind Mike Smith's 0.913 and Connor Hellebuyck (the person I see you advocate most strongly for) has a career playoff sv% of 0.916 in a full SC run that represents ~2 more saves from Hellebuyck. FYI Campbell's career playoff sv% is 0.920 (18 game sample size).

Lets say we get a 0.925 sv% the kind of performance no one complains about, that would be roughly 9 more saves over the course of a SC playoff run than what Mike Smith gave us. Just looking at Ceci's playoff numbers this year, the effect of upgrading him to a top pairing defender should be at minimum a 12 goal differential improvement over a full SC run.

Elite goaltending is a great aid and a strong moral booster for an SC run, but at the end of the day all that really matters is goal differential and every other position has less variability in performance level from year to year. The elite goalies you like are more likely to put up elite performances then other non-elite goalies, but it isn't a certainty just a higher probability any goalie can get hot or cold.

Elite goaltending is 100% not a requirement to win a Stanley cup and you downplaying every example of that is just romanticizing teams because they won a Stanley Cup. Watching Vegas and FLA neither really impress me and neither seem beyond what we are capable of, it's not like COL last year who was a clear cut above us, this season I think nothing more than an upgrade on Ceci or a 0.910 sv% goalie would of probably been enough to win it all.

 

[Soundwave]

So on the high end a SC Winning goaltender might expect 750 shots (though generally less) with that in mind Mike Smith's 0.913 and Connor Hellebuyck (the person I see you advocate most strongly for) has a career playoff sv% of 0.916 in a full SC run that represents ~2 more saves from Hellebuyck. FYI Campbell's career playoff sv% is 0.920 (18 game sample size).

Lets say we get a 0.925 sv% the kind of performance no one complains about, that would be roughly 9 more saves over the course of a SC playoff run than what Mike Smith gave us. Just looking at Ceci's playoff numbers this year, the effect of upgrading him to a top pairing defender should be at minimum a 12 goal differential improvement over a full SC run.

Elite goaltending is a great aid and a strong moral booster for an SC run, but at the end of the day all that really matters is goal differential and every other position has less variability in performance level from year to year. The elite goalies you like are more likely to put up elite performances then other non-elite goalies, but it isn't a certainty just a higher probability any goalie can get hot or cold.

Elite goaltending is 100% not a requirement to win a Stanley cup and you downplaying every example of that is just romanticizing teams because they won a Stanley Cup. Watching Vegas and FLA neither really impress me and neither seem beyond what we are capable of, it's not like COL last year who was a clear cut above us, this season I think nothing more than an upgrade on Ceci or a 0.910 sv% goalie would of probably been enough to win it all.

Show me a team that had average-ish goaltending AND a weaker blueline akin to the Oilers (as in no no.1 D) that's won a Cup in the last 20+ years. Forwards, d-corps, goaltending ... you can be weaker-ish in one area, but not 2/3 if you want to win a Cup.

Carolina had an OK blue line (not that great), but Cam Ward was great in the playoffs for them in 2006 and their forwards were good/deep.

It's very hard, bordering on impossible to win when you have no dimension to your team other than "have 4 forwards beat you by outscoring you, preferably with a boat load of PP chances".

You need to either have a no.1 D who can control a game and win some games that way (which we don't have) OR a goalie who can win you games here and there during a playoff run even when Connor and Leon don't have a great night. A guy in net who can elevate their play to that level.

We don't have either right now. McDavid/Drai are great, but they are not *that* much better than Crosby/Malkin, MacKinnon/Rantanen, Ovechkin/Backstrom/Kuzentsov that you can sit there and say "well, you don't really need either the goaltending and we'll just give you an OK d-corps and we expect you to win".

Like it's an unreasonable ask. Those other duos/trios have way better run support, we are asking these two guys to do way too much. You can't win 16 games in the playoffs with 2 players basically be asked to win every f***ing game and the back end and goaltending situation being just "alright". Your goaltending or your D needs to win several of those games in the playoffs even on nights when no.1/no.2 offensive guys simply don't have it that night or aren't getting the bounces.

The most wins the Oilers have got in a playoffs in McDrai era is 8 wins ... that's still a Red Deer to Edmonton walk away from the 16 you need. To get to 16, there needs to be other players specifically in the defensive and goaltending position that chip in with a win here or there.

Crosby/Malkin/Kessel won with not such great blue lines at times (good low event guys though) but with good goaltending. Colorado won with poor goaltending last year due to Kuemper's injury, but it didn't matter because their blue line was elite to go help their forward group. We didn't get lucky with a bonafied no.1 D, we need a goalie to win and even steal us some games in the playoffs, not just be along for the ride.

 

[Heavy Dee]

Schaefer has been a disaster at the mem cup. I feel like we sold high on him.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Hellebuyck, but of course Holland signed the one goalie contract last year which is now apparently "unmovable" ... so yippie. With help like that it's a wonder Connor and Leon can't get to a Finals thus far. lol at trying to make Campbell look better by also including his playoff stats from the year prior.

8 years here and the best goalie they can find is Cam Talbot. Tough to work with that.

Not sure if you read the rest of my post because I included multiple playoff years from all the other goalies as the entire point was proving that there are almost no goalies that perform in the playoffs at an elite level every year. I spell it out for you and its still somehow going right over your head

 

[Soundwave]

Not sure if you read the rest of my post because I included multiple playoff years from all the other goalies as the entire point was proving that there are almost no goalies that perform in the playoffs at an elite level every year. I spell it out for you and its still somehow going right over your head

The bottom line is we can't win with both just an "OK" defence and "could be good but probably not" goaltending in the playoffs.

People need to honestly understand, Connor and Leon are great, but they are not *that* much better than Crosby/Malkin/Ovechkin that you can expect 16 wins just on their brilliance alone.

Without a no.1 D who can take over a game for stretches (even a series) we have to have great goaltending most likely to win a Cup. Not just passable.

When Crosby/Malkin won their first Cup people forget now but Malkin and Crosby were virtually shut out in game 5, 6, and 7 of that Cup Finals. Malkin had 1 assist in those games, Crosby had 0 points. And they won. From down 2-3. They won. Because MAF went balls to the wall in game 6 and 7 and only allowed 1 goal each.

When Ovechkin won his first Cup, he wasn't even a PPG player in the Finals vs. Vegas. And they won. Because Holtby was incredible.

We on the other hand are expecting something closer to a miracle here by asking so much more of Connor/Leon. Your goalie has to win you some games when you are built the way we are (no Norris trophy type of D or even close) in the playoffs, you can't win 16 times just with 2 players driving an offence. Not even in the 80s I don't think would that work.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Schaefer has been a disaster at the mem cup. I feel like we sold high on him.

Seattle top line has been a disaster. Bigger issue has been Guenther and Lambert. But Shaefer taking an o-zone double minor down one in the Final is brutal. Seattle vaunted PP is tournament worst at 11%. Far too much peripheral play.

 

[CROTT]

Seattle top line has been a disaster. Bigger issue has been Guenther and Lambert. But Shaefer taking an o-zone double minor down one in the Final is brutal. Seattle vaunted PP is tournament worst at 11%. Far too much peripheral play.

For me these CHL power house teams always worry me, as for example Portland and Edmonton in the early 2010's a good team overall can make players look better then they are as individuals.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

Colorado had .902 with Kuemper last year and won the cup.

Again you're just making arbitrary lines and insinuating they must be met or it will only be failure.

That's the exception and not the norm. I posted a week or two ago the save percentages of cup winning goalies and goalie cup finalists over the last several seasons. Most of them were around .920 and up. It was more more common to see a goalie put a save percentage up around .930 than it was to see below .920.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

For these CHL power house teams always worry me, as for example Portland and Edmonton in the early 2010's a good team overall can make players look better then they are as individuals.

Seattle is a very good team with very good individual talent. They are getting schooled by a very good, structured Remparts team. Stunned to see Seattle settle for a perimeter game and overpassing out of scoring position. Remparts are content to let Seattle dither outside and wait for turnovers.
This is a team structure and execution difference over individual talent. Still tournament's are a small sample from which to make definitive statements about prospects.

EDIT: Guy I wanted the Oiler to draft last year was Nathan Gaucher. He's been an absolute beast in this tournament with his face-offs and his heavy game. Great defensive zone work.

 

[Heavy Dee]

Seattle top line has been a disaster. Bigger issue has been Guenther and Lambert. But Shaefer taking an o-zone double minor down one in the Final is brutal. Seattle vaunted PP is tournament worst at 11%. Far too much peripheral play.

Ya they have one goal as a line in almost 5 games. Dach has been bad too.