Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | The Road to the Draft June 28th and 29th

[Whyme]

Just to better visualize what we can do with an $83.5M I did up a roster with the bare minimum changes. As a matter of necessity we need to drop one of our guys making ~$3M, I chose Yamo.

Signings/Re-signings:

- Evan Bouchard $3.5M x 2 yrs
- Ryan McLeod $1.45M x 2 yrs
- Klim Kostin $1.3M x 1 yr
- Mattias Janmark $1.1M x 1 yr
- Derek Ryan $775K x 1 yr (with bonuses $950K)
- Connor Brown $775K x 1 yr (with bonuses $2.75M)

Yamo traded to the Ducks for future considerations, Bjugstad priced himself out, and Connor Brown brought in, cause of the length of his injury I believe we can offer him a 1 yr deal with bonuses.

Line-Up

Kane - Mcdavid - Hyman
RNH - Drai - Foegele
Holloway - McLeod - Brown
Janmark - Ryan - Kostin

Nurse - Ceci
Ekholm - Bouchard
Kulak - Desharnais
Broberg

Skinner
Campbell

Cap-hit= $82.6M
​

So it's only a 21 man roster cause we need to accrue cap space for deadline day. This is where I'm setting my expectations at and I'll be happy if Holland can exceed them, but it seems likely that we can expect the status quo and the deadline will be when we can mold the team in more meaningful ways.

Good thoughts. I agree with the plan, but a few little thoughts:

I believe Foegele could also be replaced by a cheaper guy, which leaves money to get a better replacement at the deadline. Kostin could have a bigger role.

If extended Hellebuyck is available they could maybe build the package around Skinner, Broberg and Foegele (maybe trade Foegele separately to make cap room and add something a bit more valuable to the Helle package if needed).

It could be a choice between something like this:

A) Skinner, Broberg, Foegele
B) Helle, Kesselring/Niemelainen, Kostin (or a new 1.3 million guy) in a bigger role

If the goal is to be as strong as possible during the next 2-3 years the option B might be better. Then they could use whatever they can save (like trading Yamo at the start as you suggested) to get a great defender and maybe a forward at the trade deadline. But I don't know if the money could be made to work for that.

 

[SwedishFire]

I could see Yamamoto, Ceci, McLeod being traded. Mcleod is to soft for Hollands plan I think. But he has good speedway and hands, so he should bring back something. If traded. But the best outcone would be keep.

A Nuge trade would turn tings up side down

 

[ottawah]

View attachment 715017

What's the cap supposed to be at when HRR is $6 billion? $93.75M?

Correct.

But also remember thats not just Edmontons cap space that is every team in the league. It will heavily drive up prices for FAs, and of course give a lot more value to contracts already signed which can drive up trade prices. It can also make some badish signings tolerable.

A rising cap certainly has advantages to capped out teams, but with the majority of teams capped out, it does not cure all ills.

 

[duul]

Looking back it was such a disaster that Brossoit got injured.

Adin Hill is an incredible goalie who just needed his moment. Wonder if we'll ever get a goalie to come through here like that.

 

[GOilers88]

I frankly don't care what they do in the regular season (aside from getting enough points to make the playoffs, hopefully without exhausting the group). I don't even care if they win the President's Trophy. Zero interest in that.

I don't want a goalie that is just good when things are easy/"going alright". We need a goalie that can hold the team afloat when things are not going good (see Dwayne Roloson, game 3 of round 2 of the 2006 playoffs).

Winning 4 playoff rounds is basically all it's about now, and to do that you either need a way better defence than what the Oilers have or you need a way better starter in the playoffs than what the Oilers have.

There's no charity in the playoffs, no one is going to let us win a round because we have McDavid and Draisaitl and they score fancy goals (well maybe other than Calgary). For other teams, really all that does is force them to play even harder and tighter against us. Team are so shit scared of what McDavid/Draisaitl did, especially in that Flames series, that every team we play against basically has full buy in for their coach, everyone is willing to buy in to whatever the opposing coach is asking for. I bet every video session in the playoffs for us, every guy is paying full attention. We will never get an opponent's second best effort in the playoffs.

We need to either get a goalie who can elevate and be a big time performer in the playoffs, or there needs to be a radical change in the defence and I don't think that is really that possible with this roster as is and this coach as is.

You keep saying all this word salad but there's not a lot if substance there.

Where was Bobrovsky last year? What happened to Oettinger this year? Vasi was sub .900. Ullmark had a Vezina season and fell apart. Hellebuyck was sub .900. Samsonov was sub .900. Do we go after Phillip Grubauer and his .903? Akira Schmid has 8 games under his belt but a .921 so is it safe to assume he's shown he has it and will clearly be a big game talent moving forward? But that can't be right because he was lights out the year before and that showed us he has it. Filip Gustavsson must be a sure thing based on his 5 games too, yeah? Dwayne Roloson hadn't seen the post season since 2003 before the Oilers run in 06 and he posted a pedestrian .903. His 3.09/.910 in 06 was worse than Stu's numbers this year and nothing about that tells me you could have predicted he'd suddenly become a monster in the playoffs that year. You're chasing ghosts with this stuff.

Enough with the silly "fans love him cause mustache" stuff. Some of us really like Stu because he had a damn fine rookie season and has shown he can hang in the NHL. You don't get to say the 50 games he played during the season don't count because you don't care about the season blah blah blah, but the 12 playoff games he played at the end of it somehow shows us he's not going to improve or be good enough moving forward. It's completely non-sensical.

We would all love to have Igor Shestyrkin, or Vasilevsky, or Sorokin or Saros or Hellebuyck. But beyond those 5 guys, there's 27 other teams all looking for that stud, proven, can't fail goaltender and the simple fact is there's no guarantee any of those guys even goes on a run either. The team cleaning up their defensive issues would go a long way in helping a guy like Skinner improve on what was already a really solid rookie season.

 

[bellagiobob]

He was a rookie goaltender that played more games this season than he's ever played in his hockey career. He was overwhelmed and fatigued.
He'll be better next year.

And it was up to the coach to realize it and start Campbell, much like it was up to the coach to realize which lines were playing well against Eichels line and which ones weren’t. Lots of blame to go around, but I think with better coaching we are still playing.

 

[Anarchism]

And it was up to the coach to realize it and start Campbell, much like it was up to the coach to realize which lines were playing well against Eichels line and which ones weren’t. Lots of blame to go around, but I think with better coaching we are still playing.

Maybe....unlikely. But we do need someone in management with experience and a history of winning.
I think we need a different GM...not Staois.

Looking back it was such a disaster that Brossoit got injured.

Adin Hill is an incredible goalie who just needed his moment. Wonder if we'll ever get a goalie to come through here like that.

Not with Holland as GM.

 

[Oilers in NS]

View attachment 714910

That sure looks like The Littlest Hobo. He sure has aged in retirement

 

[Vagabond]

My trade proposal to Winnipeg. I'm thinking not only from an Oiler perspective but also a Jets perspective.

To Winnipeg:
Campbell
Holloway
2024 1st round pick
2025 1st round pick

To Edmonton:
Hellebuyck

There will be a bidding war for a Venzna winner that's in his prime. That being said, I'd make that deal.

I'd trade Yamo to his hometown in Seattle for a 3rd rounder.

I'd trade Ceci to the highest bidder.

Bridge Bouchard.

Sign Severson. It won't be at a premium like most think.

Sign Kostin, Ryan & McLeod.

There should be room to sign Bjugstad at a sweetheart deal as he himself said he'd absolutely take a discount to stay in Edmonton.

 

[McJadeddog]

You keep saying all this word salad but there's not a lot if substance there.

Where was Bobrovsky last year? What happened to Oettinger this year? Vasi was sub .900. Ullmark had a Vezina season and fell apart. Hellebuyck was sub .900. Samsonov was sub .900. Do we go after Phillip Grubauer and his .903? Akira Schmid has 8 games under his belt but a .921 so is it safe to assume he's shown he has it and will clearly be a big game talent moving forward? But that can't be right because he was lights out the year before and that showed us he has it. Filip Gustavsson must be a sure thing based on his 5 games too, yeah? Dwayne Roloson hadn't seen the post season since 2003 before the Oilers run in 06 and he posted a pedestrian .903. His 3.09/.910 in 06 was worse than Stu's numbers this year and nothing about that tells me you could have predicted he'd suddenly become a monster in the playoffs that year. You're chasing ghosts with this stuff.

Enough with the silly "fans love him cause mustache" stuff. Some of us really like Stu because he had a damn fine rookie season and has shown he can hang in the NHL. You don't get to say the 50 games he played during the season don't count because you don't care about the season blah blah blah, but the 12 playoff games he played at the end of it somehow shows us he's not going to improve or be good enough moving forward. It's completely non-sensical.

We would all love to have Igor Shestyrkin, or Vasilevsky, or Sorokin or Saros or Hellebuyck. But beyond those 5 guys, there's 27 other teams all looking for that stud, proven, can't fail goaltender and the simple fact is there's no guarantee any of those guys even goes on a run either. The team cleaning up their defensive issues would go a long way in helping a guy like Skinner improve on what was already a really solid rookie season.

This entire post can be summarized by: goalies are voodoo.

You don't know what you are getting with 90-95% of all goalies. There are like 2-4 guys in the entire league at any given time that are fairly consistent at a high level for 3-5 years at a time. Everybody other good team needs to catch "goalie lightning in a bottle", the way Florida and Vegas both did this year. Thats really it, its not more complicated than that.

 

[Soundwave]

You keep saying all this word salad but there's not a lot if substance there.

Where was Bobrovsky last year? What happened to Oettinger this year? Vasi was sub .900. Ullmark had a Vezina season and fell apart. Hellebuyck was sub .900. Samsonov was sub .900. Do we go after Phillip Grubauer and his .903? Akira Schmid has 8 games under his belt but a .921 so is it safe to assume he's shown he has it and will clearly be a big game talent moving forward? But that can't be right because he was lights out the year before and that showed us he has it. Filip Gustavsson must be a sure thing based on his 5 games too, yeah? Dwayne Roloson hadn't seen the post season since 2003 before the Oilers run in 06 and he posted a pedestrian .903. His 3.09/.910 in 06 was worse than Stu's numbers this year and nothing about that tells me you could have predicted he'd suddenly become a monster in the playoffs that year. You're chasing ghosts with this stuff.

Enough with the silly "fans love him cause mustache" stuff. Some of us really like Stu because he had a damn fine rookie season and has shown he can hang in the NHL. You don't get to say the 50 games he played during the season don't count because you don't care about the season blah blah blah, but the 12 playoff games he played at the end of it somehow shows us he's not going to improve or be good enough moving forward. It's completely non-sensical.

We would all love to have Igor Shestyrkin, or Vasilevsky, or Sorokin or Saros or Hellebuyck. But beyond those 5 guys, there's 27 other teams all looking for that stud, proven, can't fail goaltender and the simple fact is there's no guarantee any of those guys even goes on a run either. The team cleaning up their defensive issues would go a long way in helping a guy like Skinner improve on what was already a really solid rookie season.

I just saw too many bad goals allowed by Skinner in the playoffs, just pucks that went through him at back breaking times.

I don't think Schwartz and the defensive system Woodcroft employs is going to help all that get better either.

This entire post can be summarized by: goalies are voodoo.

You don't know what you are getting with 90-95% of all goalies. There are like 2-4 guys in the entire league at any given time that are fairly consistent at a high level for 3-5 years at a time. Everybody other good team needs to catch "goalie lightning in a bottle", the way Florida and Vegas both did this year. Thats really it, its not more complicated than that.

If the Oilers are sitting here next year again complaining that goaltending cost them a chance at the Finals and have wasted another year, the Oilers are the ones who are going to have a new phase: "keeping McDavid and Draisaitl is all up to voodoo!".

 

[Bryanbryoil]

If the cap is only going up $1 million then we need to get rid of Yamamoto and Foegele as well as Ceci if we are trying to upgrade there. Maybe even Kulak although I'd rather keep him.

 

[GOilers88]

This entire post can be summarized by: goalies are voodoo.

You don't know what you are getting with 90-95% of all goalies. There are like 2-4 guys in the entire league at any given time that are fairly consistent at a high level for 3-5 years at a time. Everybody other good team needs to catch "goalie lightning in a bottle", the way Florida and Vegas both did this year. Thats really it, its not more complicated than that.

I don't disagree. Which is why I think it's silly to argue our young number 1 just isn't it based on 12 games out of 62. Stu is a good goalie. I'd love one of the 4 surefire studs on the Oilers. But it's just not realistic at all.

 

[Soundwave]

I don't disagree. Which is why I think it's silly to argue our young number 1 just isn't it based on 12 games out of 62. Stu is a good goalie. I'd love one of the 4 surefire studs on the Oilers. But it's just not realistic at all.

I just don't see what the reasoning is to have faith in him other than the fact that he's an Oiler, but objectively for me that's not enough.

Skinner's numbers in his first two playoff rounds are bad when compared to Hellebuyck, MAF, Murray, Vasi ... no surprise there. But they're also bad compared to Kuemper, Holtby, Mike Smith, Talbot, etc. tier guys also.

A guy shitting the bed in both of his first two playoff rounds is not that common. It's a very bad sign.

Pittsburgh and Washington were very, very fortunate to have MAF/Murray and Holtby.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Jake Oettinger came back down to earth. It wasn't just Vegas that took him to the woodshed. He had high SV% games followed by sub .900 & sub .800 games throughout his 19 playoff appearances.

Ten of the games Oettinger appeared in were below .900. Four below .800. He was pulled in 3 games.

If you believe in Stuart Skinner as a solid starter after his playoff performance you are a hypocrite if you don't believe Campbell can recover to .910 next season.

 

[McJadeddog]

I just saw too many bad goals allowed by Skinner in the playoffs, just pucks that went through him at back breaking times.

I don't think Schwartz and the defensive system Woodcroft employs is going to help all that get better either.



If the Oilers are sitting here next year again complaining that goaltending cost them a chance at the Finals and have wasted another year, the Oilers are the ones who are going to have a new phase: "keeping McDavid and Draisaitl is all up to voodoo!".

I hate to say it, and people don't like hearing it, but outside of some outliers, winning the stanley cup in the modern era is as much luck as it is anything, once you have achieved a certain level of team success and skill level of course. Obviously, even with all the luck in the world, Anaheim wasn't winning the cup this year, even if you put them into the playoffs as a 8th seed.

The different between Florida and Pittsburgh was 1 game, and Florida is in the finals due to hot goaltending. This is the same Florida that came back from 3-1 games and a 2 goal deficit against the best regular season team in history. If Florida and Boston re-play that series another 100 times, how many do you think Florida wins? You think they win 20? I don't. Hockey has always been a sport where luck plays an outsized factor, and that has only increased over the years as parity in the league has increased. Now, more than ever, luck plays an outsized role in the results.

So its actually WORSE than keeping McDavid and Drai is up to "goalie voodoo", its really "keeping McDavid and Drai is up to luck", now that the Oilers have crossed that barrier into legitimate contender.

I don't disagree. Which is why I think it's silly to argue our young number 1 just isn't it based on 12 games out of 62. Stu is a good goalie. I'd love one of the 4 surefire studs on the Oilers. But it's just not realistic at all.

Agreed. If we could get one of those 4-5 guys, then sure, of course you do it. Is Helly one of those guys? Yeah, probably actually. So I think you make a strong offer and see if Winnipeg bites. But barring that, you likely roll into the playoffs next year with the same tandem and cross your fingers. Just like 12 of the other teams in the playoffs every year.

 

[Heavy Dee]

I think one play that hasn't been discussed is adding our second to James Neal's contract and trade it for a lower pick or prospect.

With the cap going up only a million, that 1.9 on Neal's buyout would be so valuable.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Maybe the news of only a 1M cap increase means Kenny will be forced to make some moves he would not have considered if the cap was to be increased by 2M.

Basically ~1/83 of the cap is enough to alter the fate of the makeup of the team and dictate if you can win the cup or not.

The NHL is a simulation.

I think one play that hasn't been discussed is adding our second to James Neal's contract and trade it for a lower pick or prospect.

With the cap going up only a million, that 1.9 on Neal's buyout would be so valuable.

I don't know if this is what you meant but you cannot trade a bought out contract.

Calgary free and clear of Lucic. 1.9M x 2 remaining for the Oilers. Bullshit 3rd rounder.

 

[Soundwave]

I hate to say it, and people don't like hearing it, but outside of some outliers, winning the stanley cup in the modern era is as much luck as it is anything, once you have achieved a certain level of team success and skill level of course. Obviously, even with all the luck in the world, Anaheim wasn't winning the cup this year, even if you put them into the playoffs as a 8th seed.

The different between Florida and Pittsburgh was 1 game, and Florida is in the finals due to hot goaltending. This is the same Florida that came back from 3-1 games and a 2 goal deficit against the best regular season team in history. If Florida and Boston re-play that series another 100 times, how many do you think Florida wins? You think they win 20? I don't. Hockey has always been a sport where luck plays an outsized factor, and that has only increased over the years as parity in the league has increased. Now, more than ever, luck plays an outsized role in the results.

So its actually WORSE than keeping McDavid and Drai is up to "goalie voodoo", its really "keeping McDavid and Drai is up to luck", now that the Oilers have crossed that barrier into legitimate contender.



Agreed. If we could get one of those 4-5 guys, then sure, of course you do it. Is Helly one of those guys? Yeah, probably actually. So I think you make a strong offer and see if Winnipeg bites. But barring that, you likely roll into the playoffs next year with the same tandem and cross your fingers. Just like 12 of the other teams in the playoffs every year.

That's true, luck has a big part to do with it.

That said, the Oilers (specifically management) really hasn't earned the right to kick up their feet on the desk and say "mission accomplished! We've done as much work as other Cup winners have, now it's just up to the boys to get it done".

Which Cup winner has a Cody Ceci as their top right D? Pittsburgh, a team that's won Cups had this guy playing on their bottom pairing for a good reason.

How many Cup winners have 4 rookies/sophomore players on their backend playing critical playoff minutes and making (as expected) a shit ton of mistakes? None except Edmonton.

How many Cup winners have both an average-to-mediocre goaltending and defence? So basically who has won by just sheer offence? It's not Pittsburgh or Washington for people who want to say that either, Pittsburgh has had good goaltending in all their Cup wins, Washington had great goaltending and solid D the year they won theirs.

You can't win 4 playoff rounds without both a D and a goaltending that can't outright win a game on their own here and there. You can't just expect to win that many rounds with two offensive players just outscoring the world. You can win a round or two, sure, but they need some help. The last time we had a third player that arguably helped us win playoff games on nights where maybe Leon or Connor didn't have it was Cam Talbot.

The last two years the goaltending in the playoffs has been no where near good enough. Not even close. If you want to say you're in the business of winning Cups, that's not close.

 

[McTonyBrar]

WHAT DOES HE MEAN??

 

[McTonyBrar]

I could see Yamamoto, Ceci, McLeod being traded. Mcleod is to soft for Hollands plan I think. But he has good speedway and hands, so he should bring back something. If traded. But the best outcone would be keep.

A Nuge trade would turn tings up side down

Trading McLeod would not be smart. He’s ready to breakout

Maybe....unlikely. But we do need someone in management with experience and a history of winning.
I think we need a different GM...not Staois.


Not with Holland as GM.

Sorry but what has Holland done that is so awful? Honestly it’s like every GM our team gets the fans just jump on as being terrible. Are people really this ignorant?

 

[GOilers88]

I just don't see what the reasoning is to have faith in him other than the fact that he's an Oiler, but objectively for me that's not enough.

Skinner's numbers in his first two playoff rounds are bad when compared to Hellebuyck, MAF, Murray, Vasi ... no surprise there. But they're also bad compared to Kuemper, Holtby, Mike Smith, Talbot, etc. tier guys also.

A guy shitting the bed in both of his first two playoff rounds is not that common. It's a very bad sign.

Pittsburgh and Washington were very, very fortunate to have MAF/Murray and Holtby.

You're comparing a rookie with 2 rounds under his belt to a bunch of of guys who have been around for years and have multiple runs on their resumes. Every single one of those guys has a bad run as well that is similarly bad. You're not arguing in good faith at all.

 

[Soundwave]

WHAT DOES HE MEAN??

I don't think Holland has the balls to do what needs to be done, but lets see what happens.

This is just too big for him, he's too old fashioned and uncreative to get this done.

You need to be ruthless like Vegas' front office.

You're comparing a rookie with 2 rounds under his belt to a bunch of of guys who have been around for years and have multiple runs on their resumes. Every single one of those guys has a bad run as well that is similarly bad. You're not arguing in good faith at all.

Do you want to compare to other goalies first two playoff rounds as starters? I was comparing to those guys' first two playoff rounds as starters and quite often they were the same age as Stu or even younger.

Shitting the bed twice like that doesn't happen as often as people here think it does.

That's a definite red flag for Skinner and there's definite reason to doubt his ability to get the job done here when it matters.

 

[Soundwave]

Trading McLeod would not be smart. He’s ready to breakout


Sorry but what has Holland done that is so awful? Honestly it’s like every GM our team gets the fans just jump on as being terrible. Are people really this ignorant?

Well zero goaltending for McDavid/Draisaitl in the playoffs to rely on in Holland's entire tenure here would be awful. The Campbell and Nurse contracts that give us no cap flexibility to work with roster wise are awful too.

Last time we won a playoff game because our goalie just flat out won it was 2017 with Cam Talbot. That's ridiculously poor management. It should not be that hard to find a goalie that can win one freaking playoff game when the team isn't firing on all cylinders.

 

[GOilers88]

I don't think Holland has the balls to do what needs to be done, but lets see what happens.

This is just too big for him, he's too old fashioned and uncreative to get this done.

You need to be ruthless like Vegas' front office.



Do you want to compare to other goalies first two playoff rounds as starters?

Shitting the bed twice like that doesn't happen as often as people here think it does.

Why is the marker a goalies first two rounds? You're arbitrarily setting boundaries to determine who is good and bad and it's illogical. MAF had multiple shit years after winning a cup with Pittsburgh nevermind his shit first go round. So did Matt Murray. Vasi is one of the best goalies on the planet and is not even a remotely fair comparison, nevermind the fact that the defense in front of him has been miles better than that of Skinners.

Again you're setting arbitrary goalposts and arguing in poor faith.