Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | The Road to the Draft June 28th and 29th

[CantHaveTkachev]

The only reason they missed the playoffs is because of injuries, otherwise they probably would've been near the top of the division again.

2 Cup Finals, several Conference Finals, no.1 in the division like what 3/6 or 4/6 times, quite possibly going to win a Cup here ... I mean there's no way to spin that as "Ackshuaallly, they're not so smart, they just win cuz mystery reasons".

They are very well run and quite frankly maybe GMs overvaluing bull shit like loyalty is part of the reason why Vegas is able to be successful. They are ruthless in bringing in new players and upgrading when they see fit, rather than doing the "lets just hope natural development happens here".

yeah Vegas has good management, but so do a lot of teams in the league..

know who else has good management? the Winnipeg Jets IMO...great at drafting, smart trades, a playoff team more often than not with a run to the Conference Finals

the difference? no one wants to play in Winnipeg while everyone wants to play in Vegas...less pressure, good weather, good team and no taxes
it's a massive advantage when every player has Vegas as a top destination

 

[foshizzle]

How long does a goalie coach need to be cancelled for liking a few tweets years ago that nobody even remembers though? If we can bring in Evander Kane on a multi year deal to play next to McDavid, we can bring in Dusty Emoo as a goaltending consultant.

Um, he tweeted anti-black, transphobic, and homophobic comments. There is no room for that in a game that already struggles being open to everyone

 

[Fourier]

I think they get away with being ruthless because there's a lot of old fashioned, behind the curve GMs in this league (ours included). Too many guys operating like it's 1998, most of these GMs still don't even understand the salary cap. Same old farts get recycled, in that environment it's not that shocking that a forward thinking group could come in and shake things up. They're not the only team that could've had Eichel, I mean shit Calgary could've probably gotten it done, they just didn't want to go the extra mile. That's the league, there's a lot of GMs who content to be content and won't push the extra mile.

The Oilers really don't have a foot to stand on anyway if they're going to do this whole "wah wah, advantages". If we win a Cup there will be lots of people pointing to us getting lucky and rewarded for basically losing on purpose for almost an entire decade and being gifted multiple top picks.

The fact that the Oilers were in that series and had a chance at winning really just tells you more how brilliant McDavid and Draisaitl were, especially on an unstoppable PP, not so much that our roster as a whole was equal to theirs outside of that.

Their role players, D, didn't give us much, meanwhile on the Oilers you got guys literally falling over to give them free 2 on 1s and passing them the puck so they score off turnovers right in the first five minutes of the series.

Until the Oilers stop having all this trash on their roster that just gifts opponents freebie goals (the D and goaltending especially), it's going to be hard to beat teams that don't fold on their system and don't give you anything for free and then also while maybe not having a McDavid, still have a MacKinnon or Makar or Eichel or Stone who can counter punch.

Woodcroft/Manson might want to try implementing some kind of defensive system that isn't a joke too, that probably would help, but we also have too many players that let us down in the playoffs and gift away easy scores for the opponent.

One thing I will say I like about the Vegas front office is that they are creative and not afraid to make moves when needed. For me Holland is simply to out of touch with how you get around the cap. But beyond that I don't see much evidence at all to suggest that the Vegas approach would work other than in a handful of locations. Try pulling that stuff in CBJ.

Arguing that the Oilers were gifted Draisaitl is a tough one for me. Half the people here did not even like that choice. Absolutely, they were gifted McDavid. And yes they have botched that piece of fortune. But you can dismiss it as much as you want. The fact that so many plyers won't come to Edmonton is a massive disadvantage. There re not a lot of Ekholms out there with wives that miss the cold.

 

[Soundwave]

yeah Vegas has good management, but so do a lot of teams in the league..

know who else has good management? the Winnipeg Jets IMO...great at drafting, smart trades, a playoff team more often than not with a run to the Conference Finals

the difference? no one wants to play in Winnipeg while everyone wants to play in Vegas...less pressure, good weather, good team and no taxes
it's a massive advantage when every player has Vegas as a top destination

I think Winnipeg's issue is their leadership core has some serious problems, and I think that goes back a while. While everyone was whooping it up and shitting on Evander Kane, I always thought it was pretty f***ing stupid for teammates to take one of their own teammates' clothes and dump them in a wet shower. What kind of leadership is that? Even if the guy is not doing things a certain way, that's some petty junior high ass shit.

Beyond that I think like the Oilers the Jets' blue line is just not good enough. They had an OK forward group without a standout forward who can take over games, weaker-ish blue line, good goalie.

Any team could have had Eichel, any team could have scouted for Stephenson, Amadio, Whitecloud, Thompson, Hill, and a half dozen more other contributing players they have.

Vegas is unusual because they do things like cut MAF loose, cut coaches loose, not unwilling to shake up the top end of their roster that frankly most GMs simply don't have the balls to do. There's a lot of misguided sentimentality in this league, and really actually when you view things after the fact it becomes clear. Lets take Calgary for example, we know now a big part of the reason they didn't sign Tkachuk to a long term deal was not that he wouldn't have signed at a certain point it was because Treliving wanted to sign Frolik too ... lol.

And the Oilers are guilty of this type of stupidity too. Vegas is just an outlier in that they don't engage in that kind of dumb thinking. There's lots of GMs (Holland included) that fall in love or overvalue players who in the long run turn out to not be that good and as such end up missing out on opportunities for really good players.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Any team could have had Eichel, any team could have scouted for Stephenson, Amadio, Whitecloud, Thompson, Hill, and a half dozen more other contributing players they have.

no, not "any team" could of had Eichel, cause he had a NMC...Calgary was sniffing around and he said "hell no" to that...gee, I wonder why

Vegas is unusual because they do things like cut MAF loose, cut coaches loose, not unwilling to shake up the top end of their roster that frankly most GMs simply don't have the balls to do. There's a lot of misguided sentimentality in this league, and really actually when you view things after the fact it becomes clear. Lets take Calgary for example, we know now a big part of the reason they didn't sign Tkachuk to a long term deal was not that he wouldn't have signed at a certain point it was because Treliving wanted to sign Frolik too ... lol.

again, they're willing to do "bold things" cause they can...
Calgary is a good example...if Vegas has drafted Adam Fox, Johnny Gaudreau and Matthew Tkachuk, do you think they're bolting for other cities? I highly doubt it

And the Oilers are guilty of this type of stupidity too. Vegas is just an outlier in that they don't engage in that kind of dumb thinking. There's lots of GMs (Holland included) that fall in love or overvalue players who in the long run turn out to not be that good and as such end up missing out on opportunities for really good players.

Vegas actually does do dumb things, like giving away Nick Suzuki...the difference is they just get the next player that wants to play there

 

[ujju2]

Change the defensive structure in front of Jack Campbell and he's .910 SV%.

What does that make Skinner? The best goalie in the league??

 

[Soundwave]

no, not "any team" could of had Eichel, cause he had a NMC...Calgary was sniffing around and he said "hell no" to that...gee, I wonder why


again, they're willing to do "bold things" cause they can...
Calgary is a good example...if Vegas has drafted Adam Fox, Johnny Gaudreau and Matthew Tkachuk, do you think they're bolting for other cities? I highly doubt it


Vegas actually does do dumb things, like giving away Nick Suzuki...the difference is they just get the next player that wants to play there

I believe he was willing to waive for Calgary, that wasn't what stopped the deal, it was an LTIR thing, but really if Calgary wanted it bad enough they could have moved out some of their duds and made it happen. Probably a good thing they didn't for us, but it just illustrates that Vegas takes advantage of a lot of teams just not willing to go the extra mile. They probably could have had Jack Eichel if they didn't spend their money on ... Blake Coleman. They could have signed Tkachuk long term, and frankly even Gaudreau longer term but they wanted to keep money open to spend on the Froliks of the world.

Too many league mangers that fall in love with a "core group" and mediocre-average players or just overpaying "good" players instead of "great" players; Vegas is refreshing in that they don't have these hang ups.

Even shit like "Keep Nuuuuugeeeeey Pie Forever!" ... Vegas doesn't give a shit about that (lol), and frankly it's interesting to watch an organization built without sentimentality being a large factor.

 

[PKSpecialist]

One thing I will say I like about the Vegas front office is that they are creative and not afraid to make moves when needed. For me Holland is simply to out of touch with how you get around the cap. But beyond that I don't see much evidence at all to suggest that the Vegas approach would work other than in a handful of locations. Try pulling that stuff in CBJ.

Other than the HF Oil Mock Draft I pretty much never post here or read this site anymore and posts like this are why. (This isn’t personal @Fourier it’s a overall state of the union)

The Oilers were some $8 million over the cap this year due to LTIR. Holland traded Kassian for cap relief. Holland got Nashville to retain just enough money on the Ekholm deal so that the Oilers could afford to make the Bjugstad deal.

Is Ken Holland a genius when it comes to the cap? Nope…to be honest i don’t think there is a GM in the league who is…they all have capologists who tell them what they can/can’t afford to do. The Oilers had such bad management for so long that we rag on the next guy for the failures of the guy before and never give credit where credit is due. This site and fans have become toxic, due to a decade of mismanagement and now no one can see the positives in what is happening here. One team in 32 wins a Stanley cup every year. One team in 32 loses a Stanley cup final every year. Our team had that loss 17 years ago. We’re due to get back there, and this management team has put together a team capable of doing it. They’re close. Enjoy the ride.

 

[McShogun99]

campbell would come with a 4mill dead cap hit for us if sent down

I know but who's going to take him with 4 years left? The cost to trade him will be enormous.

yeah Vegas has good management, but so do a lot of teams in the league..

know who else has good management? the Winnipeg Jets IMO...great at drafting, smart trades, a playoff team more often than not with a run to the Conference Finals

the difference? no one wants to play in Winnipeg while everyone wants to play in Vegas...less pressure, good weather, good team and no taxes
it's a massive advantage when every player has Vegas as a top destination

It's why Vegas can get away with treating players like playing cards. You manage a team in Edmonton/Vegas the same way they manage in Vegas and the only players that would want to be here are players with no other options left.

 

[Soundwave]

Other than the HF Oil Mock Draft I pretty much never post here or read this site anymore and posts like this are why. (This isn’t personal @Fourier it’s a overall state of the union)

The Oilers were some $8 million over the cap this year due to LTIR. Holland traded Kassian for cap relief. Holland got Nashville to retain just enough money on the Ekholm deal so that the Oilers could afford to make the Bjugstad deal.

Is Ken Holland a genius when it comes to the cap? Nope…to be honest i don’t think there is a GM in the league who is…they all have capologists who tell them what they can/can’t afford to do. The Oilers had such bad management for so long that we rag on the next guy for the failures of the guy before and never give credit where credit is due. This site and fans have become toxic, due to a decade of mismanagement and now no one can see the positives in what is happening here. One team in 32 wins a Stanley cup every year. One team in 32 loses a Stanley cup final every year. Our team had that loss 17 years ago. We’re due to get back there, and this management team has put together a team capable of doing it. They’re close. Enjoy the ride.

While I agree with some of your other points, this one I don't. No one is due shit. Not the Oilers, not any team.

The Oilers still have considerable work to do on their roster, the goaltending and defence is not Cup caliber and even the forward depth is still missing some basic things (can't have the Yamamotos of the world taking big minutes in your top 6, able to cash on only 1/100 high danger chances, put the damn puck in the back of the net when you have half of it empty for crying out loud).

 

[Arpeggio]

I would argue that the Oilers certainly were a cup caliber team this year, and likely would've won the cup if they had gotten past Vegas. That whole series shifted on like two 5 minute segments. Pretending like the Oilers aren't in the same class as the Knights won't get this team anywhere.

The smart thing to do would be to offload expensive players who you think could be replaced by rookies (Yamamoto, Foegele, maybe Kulak), sign some minimum players, and save up as much cap space as you can for the trade deadline. The only move I would consider going all in for would be Karlsson.

The team as constructed today should be top five in the league. That's basically the definition of a cup caliber team.

 

[ujju2]

I love Klim but Roy is much better right now.

Kostin is a feather in the Oilers cap, but he's one of two feathers they've had in the last...15? years with the other being Maroon and I suppose you can add Kassian as well.

I mean we traded Paajarvi for Perron, so I'd count that. Your point of course still stands.

 

[Soundwave]

I would argue that the Oilers certainly were a cup caliber team this year, and likely would've won the cup if they had gotten past Vegas. That whole series shifted on like two 5 minute segments. Pretending like the Oilers aren't in the same class as the Knights won't get this team anywhere.

The smart thing to do would be to offload expensive players who you think could be replaced by rookies (Yamamoto, Foegele, maybe Kulak), sign some minimum players, and save up as much cap space as you can for the trade deadline. The only move I would consider going all in for would be Karlsson.

The team as constructed today should be top five in the league. That's basically the definition of a cup caliber team.

They're a top 10 team in the league, sure, but doesn't necessarily mean you are owed a Cup.

The problem with the Oilers is there's too much weakness on the back end and in net for a good opponent to exploit. Even if we eeked past Vegas, it's not a 100% given they beat Dallas just because Vegas beat Dallas.

We play a very immature, loosey goosey brand of hockey where we rely a lot on the other team also making mistakes to even out us making a ton of them, when the other team doesn't comply, it becomes a problem.

 

[ujju2]

I would argue that the Oilers certainly were a cup caliber team this year, and likely would've won the cup if they had gotten past Vegas. That whole series shifted on like two 5 minute segments. Pretending like the Oilers aren't in the same class as the Knights won't get this team anywhere.

The smart thing to do would be to offload expensive players who you think could be replaced by rookies (Yamamoto, Foegele, maybe Kulak), sign some minimum players, and save up as much cap space as you can for the trade deadline. The only move I would consider going all in for would be Karlsson.

The team as constructed today should be top five in the league. That's basically the definition of a cup caliber team.

I wouldn't. If there's one position to go all in for it would be a goalie I think. Otherwise stay pat, make small but meaningful upgrades.

 

[Fourier]

Other than the HF Oil Mock Draft I pretty much never post here or read this site anymore and posts like this are why. (This isn’t personal @Fourier it’s a overall state of the union)

The Oilers were some $8 million over the cap this year due to LTIR. Holland traded Kassian for cap relief. Holland got Nashville to retain just enough money on the Ekholm deal so that the Oilers could afford to make the Bjugstad deal.

Is Ken Holland a genius when it comes to the cap? Nope…to be honest i don’t think there is a GM in the league who is…they all have capologists who tell them what they can/can’t afford to do. The Oilers had such bad management for so long that we rag on the next guy for the failures of the guy before and never give credit where credit is due. This site and fans have become toxic, due to a decade of mismanagement and now no one can see the positives in what is happening here. One team in 32 wins a Stanley cup every year. One team in 32 loses a Stanley cup final every year. Our team had that loss 17 years ago. We’re due to get back there, and this management team has put together a team capable of doing it. They’re close. Enjoy the ride.

Trading a player with 2 picks for cap relief or asking for a few $100K in retention is not really what I would call creativity.

The LA part of yesterdays deal for example is somewhat more of what I am talking about. LA ended up with over $5M in cap space this year and $3M next at the cost of a 2nd and a guy they wanted to move in Walker. They also got around the fact that Peterson's contract was buyout proof this year. When the Oilers bought out Neal there were deals that could have been made similar to this one.

The Oilers have never been involved in a three team trade. The deal for Keith last year was a perfect opportunity to do so since the actual cost in terms of money would have been minimal.

That said I also recognize that the Oiler's cap situation did limit their options. Chia's death by a 1000 cuts was not helpful for sure.

 

[Soundwave]

It still makes me scratch my head as to why Jack Campbell got 5 x 5.

Like on what basis did he get that. He had .914 save percentage last year for the Leafs (3 months of sub .900 after a hot start) in his one single year as a starter, that was 18th in the league below Mike Smith's .915.

In the 2022 playoffs he had .898 ... mediocre numbers. So it wasn't even like he could play the "well my regular season numbers were falling off, but I did deliver in the playoffs!" card.

This dude had no business getting more than 4 mill x 3 years. Who else is getting 5 years at big money with only one year of being a starter at age 30+? I don't understand why he got such a bigger contract than the Ville Husso's of the world.

It's like we gave this guy this contract on the basis of "well we like ex-Dubas players and anyone who's a friend of Hyman's is a friend of ours, so sure just take our money".

 

[Drivesaitl]

They picked up Nic Roy off the scrap heap as well who is a high end 3rd liner, when have the Oilers ever had found money like that? Amadio was a fringe 4th liner and now he's doubling his numbers in Vegas. That's 3 guys they picked up for nothing that turned into legit top 9 players with Stevenson being a top liner. Carrier is another, some guy named Paul Cotter had 13 goals this year, Alec Martinez was a smart trade etc.
They made the Cup Finals before all the big names came to Vegas.
Conversely, the Oilers had two of the biggest names in the sport fall into their laps and, 8 years later, they made one conference finals in which they got swept.

I'm not trying to make this an Oilers vs. Knights thing. Just illustrating how good Vegas's pro scouting has been. Yeah, some luck has been involved which every team needs at some point to win big but when you consistently contend at a high level over a 6 year period with lots of names recycling in and out, you're doing something really right.
FTR, I hate Vegas but I can admit when they're doing something well and that organization is a well oiled machine.

Can't say much about Roy, I've liked him but as somebody thats watched the Kings a lot for years there's nobody that thought Amadio was going to be a player. He was the #1 dud in LA. The guy that couldn't make a play or cash anything.

Barbashev turned out to be a huge TDL pickup. Better than I thought. Seems like getting out of STL has been good for him.

 

[Slats432]

Not sure how that would work, but Kenny has checked in on Carter Hart?

 

[Fourier]

no, not "any team" could of had Eichel, cause he had a NMC...Calgary was sniffing around and he said "hell no" to that...gee, I wonder why


again, they're willing to do "bold things" cause they can...
Calgary is a good example...if Vegas has drafted Adam Fox, Johnny Gaudreau and Matthew Tkachuk, do you think they're bolting for other cities? I highly doubt it


Vegas actually does do dumb things, like giving away Nick Suzuki...the difference is they just get the next player that wants to play there

Not only did Eichel control where he wanted to go to but he also had a $10M cap hit. (Arizona could have fit him in but he was not going there.) In fact, few teams could have fit him in without taking a big hit to their roster. To make that deal Vegas manipulated LTIR which they have done more than once. I doubt there was any other team with any serious chance at making that trade.

 

[Drivesaitl]

So why do you think they can get away with being ruthless? It's because players look at the Vegas life style and want to be there. How many players have Vegas on their no-trade list? Maybe some who don't like the drama, but even more want to go there so they take a lower salary or force a trade to play out their string there. AP could have gotten $11M if he was open to play for any team. But he wanted to go to Vegas so he took what they could afford. Fleury also pretty much forced his way to Vegas. He was the main reason for early success. Patches and Stone also pretty much forced a deal to Vegas.

Guess what happens if you are the Calgary Flames and the players don't like how they are being treated. Everyone asks for a trade.

Exchange Skinner's play with Hills and the Oilers probably win that series. But yet you consider one management group geniuses and the other to be a disaster.

Doesn't this defy the simple logic that Vegas acquired an Adin Hill? When do the Oilers find any goalie hanging around like that? Sure Vegas screwed up bigtime on the goalie file. More hits than misses. But seems like they fill their pants with options for the most important position in hockey.

Adin Hill is a pretty great insurance policy to have. Seems like the Oilers never have one of those being a potential to play goal. Adin Hill costing 2.1M caphit. Would rather have...

This is a kid that comes from Comox BC. Arizona knew who he was, Vegas knew, the Oilers, based in Western Canada team beaten by the Knights finding gold, excuse pun, in Adin Hill.

This team is too busy wasting picks on nothing Yamamotos and Tyler Bensons. Since the Drai pick our scouting is trash. Our scouting has been trash in anything but first round picks for quite awhile and our first round record not great either.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The Yama love never stops. This ended up on my youtube recommendations, somehow. I couldn't stop laughing.



I don't know an Oiler fan that thinks Yama is anything or would be heartbroke at his no longer being an Oiler. This guy seems to think he has "huge upside"

I wonder if the youtuber is posting here. Seems like it.

Yeah seeya Yamo. Can't happen fast enough.

 

[foshizzle]

So why do you think they can get away with being ruthless? It's because players look at the Vegas life style and want to be there. How many players have Vegas on their no-trade list? Maybe some who don't like the drama, but even more want to go there so they take a lower salary or force a trade to play out their string there. AP could have gotten $11M if he was open to play for any team. But he wanted to go to Vegas so he took what they could afford. Fleury also pretty much forced his way to Vegas. He was the main reason for early success. Patches and Stone also pretty much forced a deal to Vegas.

Guess what happens if you are the Calgary Flames and the players don't like how they are being treated. Everyone asks for a trade.

Exchange Skinner's play with Hills and the Oilers probably win that series. But yet you consider one management group geniuses and the other to be a disaster.

Your last sentence is ridiculous. Oilers have 2 generational players scoring at numbers not seen in 30 years. Give these 2 to Vegas and we are talking multiple cups already. Their management group is far superior

yeah Vegas has good management, but so do a lot of teams in the league..

know who else has good management? the Winnipeg Jets IMO...great at drafting, smart trades, a playoff team more often than not with a run to the Conference Finals

the difference? no one wants to play in Winnipeg while everyone wants to play in Vegas...less pressure, good weather, good team and no taxes
it's a massive advantage when every player has Vegas as a top destination

The Winnipeg Jets don’t have close to the front office that Vegas does.

 

[foshizzle]

One thing I will say I like about the Vegas front office is that they are creative and not afraid to make moves when needed. For me Holland is simply to out of touch with how you get around the cap. But beyond that I don't see much evidence at all to suggest that the Vegas approach would work other than in a handful of locations. Try pulling that stuff in CBJ.

Arguing that the Oilers were gifted Draisaitl is a tough one for me. Half the people here did not even like that choice. Absolutely, they were gifted McDavid. And yes they have botched that piece of fortune. But you can dismiss it as much as you want. The fact that so many plyers won't come to Edmonton is a massive disadvantage. There re not a lot of Ekholms out there with wives that miss the cold.

100% agree. Vegas also invested heavily in analytics so they are able to find those hidden gems. Oiler absolutely refuse to do that for some reason and have made poor choices because of it.

 

[Fourier]

Doesn't this defy the simple logic that Vegas acquired an Adin Hill? When do the Oilers find any goalie hanging around like that? Sure Vegas screwed up bigtime on the goalie file. More hits than misses. But seems like they fill their pants with options for the most important position in hockey.

Adin Hill is a pretty great insurance policy to have. Seems like the Oilers never have one of those being a potential to play goal.

This is a kid that comes from Comox BC. Arizona knew who he was, Vegas knew, the Oilers, based in Western Canada team beaten by the Knights finding gold, excuse pun, in Adin Hill.

This team is too busy wasting picks on nothing Yamamotos and Tyler Bensons. Since the Drai pick our scouting is trash. Our scouting has been trash in anything but first round picks for quite awhile and our first round record not great either.

What would the reaction around here have been if the Oilers went into last year with Skinner and Hill as their goalies?? I was always concerned about spending money on Campbell or any of the options out there, but Hill was not a guy you expected to do what he has done. Even the Knights did not expect this. He only got a shot after every other option was hurt. There is nothing in his previous play that would have suggested he had this in him.

 

[Soundwave]

Your last sentence is ridiculous. Oilers have 2 generational players scoring at numbers not seen in 30 years. Give these 2 to Vegas and we are talking multiple cups already. Their management group is far superior



The Winnipeg Jets don’t have close to the front office that Vegas does.

Pretty much that. lol. I'm pretty sure if you gave McCrimmon the choice of starting a team with the Marchessaults and James Neals of the world or having been gifted McDavid, Draisaitl, RNH to start with, they'd rather have that.

McDavid would be a Cup champion already if he had a GM that good.

Management is more important than it's given credit for, even the 80s Oilers, Gretzky was a huge (understatement) one up for the Oilers to have but without Messier, Coffey, Fuhr, Lowe, and especially the Euro scouting that brought us Kurri, Tikkanen, etc. we don't win four Cups with Wayne.