Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | The Oilers Biggest Roster Need Is?

[K1984]

I remember how strongly you felt about losing Raphael Lavoie on waivers as well. Just awful management.

He's got 4 points in 14 games in the AHL now but hey hindsight is only worthwhile if it suits us.

Meanwhile the "corpse" of Corey Perry that everyone and their dog was ready to rush into retirement to make room for Lavoie has 4 goals and 7 points in the NHL while being a fairly reliable contributor in a bunch of ways.

I got dismissed outright not three months ago for saying that Perry has a much better chance of contributing than Lavoie does.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

JJ on Oilers Now, now.

Oh, by the way it’s pretty much confirmed that the offersheets came as a blindside to them.

I’m late to the party but it may not have been that the offer sheets are what blindsided them, it was that the players signed them which did, with probably little to no communication from the agents advising Oiler management.

 

[TheNumber4]

I’m late to the party but it may not have been that the offer sheets are what blindsided them, it was that the players signed them which did, with probably little to no communication from the agents advising Oiler management.

You can only determine if the players signing is a blindside or not once the numbers are disclosed. 2 to 4 times what they’re RFA rate would have been, pretty reasonable to assume they would sign.

The offersheets themselves coming came as a blindside to the Oilers. Confirmed in interviews with JJ, he didn’t see it coming.

 

[Soundwave]

I’m late to the party but it may not have been that the offer sheets are what blindsided them, it was that the players signed them which did, with probably little to no communication from the agents advising Oiler management.

I mean not sure how that could be a suprise, Broberg would be the dumbest person in the league to not take that contract and run. Even for Holloway that was probably double the salary the Oilers were offering, how many employees do you think you would keep if you ran a business offering 1/2 the salary as a competitor?

 

[TheNumber4]

I remember how strongly you felt about losing Raphael Lavoie on waivers as well. Just awful management.

He's got 4 points in 14 games in the AHL now but hey hindsight is only worthwhile if it suits us.

I was never huge on Raph. There wasn’t much reason to be high on him.

There were plenty of reasons to be high on Broberg and Holloway though. We saw what they could do at the NHL level.

 

[LTIR]

I remember how strongly you felt about losing Raphael Lavoie on waivers as well. Just awful management.

He's got 4 points in 14 games in the AHL now but hey hindsight is only worthwhile if it suits us.

Not sure if being sarcastic. Losing Lavoie to waivers twice was bad management even if he is straggling. Walking away from Holloway for a 3rd rd pick was bad as well even if he is doing good.
signing Henrique, Brown and Skinner was good management even if they haven't done much so far and look like not great signings.
Hindsight helps but management can be judged without it.

 

[LTIR]

Just because Hyman is having a slow start, I don't think anyone would take Holloway in his place. You'd really have to be wearing blinders to think that would be a good idea.

Talking about value. Factor in age and salary along with slow start and its close.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Not sure if being sarcastic. Losing Lavoie to waivers twice was bad management even if he is straggling. Walking away from Holloway for a 3rd rd pick was bad as well even if he is doing good.
signing Henrique, Brown and Skinner was good management even if they haven't done much so far and look like not great signings.
Hindsight helps but management can be judged without it.

How so? He was worth nothing trade value wise and has to clear waivers to go to the minors. What should they have done? Put a non nhl player in the lineup?

Talking about value. Factor in age and salary along with slow start and its close.

Ridiculous.

 

[LTIR]

How so? He was worth nothing trade value wise and has to clear waivers to go to the minors. What should they have done? Put a non nhl player in the lineup?


Ridiculous.

Could've gotten something for him and also could've tried him up for a couple games before discarding him. He looked decent enough in preseason and had paid his dues in Bako. Probably would have been waived anyway but at that time eyebrows were certainly raised by how he was being managed.

 

[Soundwave]

I was never huge on Raph. There wasn’t much reason to be high on him.

There were plenty of reasons to be high on Broberg and Holloway though. We saw what they could do at the NHL level.

I'll be honest I didn't see it either, the speed and jump just wasn't there. Nice shot release though. He's a player that maybe makes the squad 10-15 years ago.

 

[TheNumber4]

Could've gotten something for him and also could've tried him up for a couple games before discarding him. He looked decent enough in preseason and had paid his dues in Bako. Probably would have been waived anyway but at that time eyebrows were certainly raised by how he was being managed.

Look at Podz. Former 10OA Pick. Also a player that if he doesn't stick on the big club he goes right to Waivers. Podz returned a 4th. How much can you realistically have expected Lavoie to bring in.

If he doesn't stick on the big club (very likely), teams lose him to waivers for free. Can't get much return for that situation.

I'll be honest I didn't see it either, the speed and jump just wasn't there. Nice shot release though. He's a player that maybe makes the squad 10-15 years ago.

Yup. Motor and workrate was my issue with him. Can't be in the NHL if your standing still more often than skating.

 

[Jumptheshark]

JJ on Oilers Now, now.

Oh, by the way it’s pretty much confirmed that the offersheets came as a blindside to them.

Then he is an idiot over his head.

Any RFA not signed by August 1st and there has been no headway on a new contract is prime for an offer sheet.

Lets looks at the facts.

August 20th both Holloway and Broberg sign with the Blues.

Lets look at the oilers cap situation on August say 10th. Posters can check my math but we have to work under the assumption of healthy lineup to start the season. I believe the max we could have offered either was about 1.5mill a year. Camp were getting ready to open and so far it sounds like Oilers were not on the same page as Holloways agent and Broberg agent was not really talking to the oilers. HE said at the end of the season Brobergs trade request stood.

Between Bowman who got hired on July 24th and JJ--they should have known after the last offers to the players were rejected--that the agents doing their job would then shop their clients. Darren Ferris has confirmed he had been in contact with the Blues since mid July.


SI' article on the oilers offer Oilers offer 1.1 mill

Details Emerge About Oilers Offer to Phillip Broberg

The St. Louis Blues added multiple budding prospects from the Edmonton Oilers by utilizing the rarely-seen offer sheet. With Dylan Holloway and Philip Broberg u

www.si.com

I have found nothing on line about Blake Robson's contact with the Oilers prior to the offer sheets being made

 

[TheNumber4]

Then he is an idiot over his head.

Any RFA not signed by August 1st and there has been no headway on a new contract is prime for an offer sheet.

Lets looks at the facts.

August 20th both Holloway and Broberg sign with the Blues.

Lets look at the oilers cap situation on August say 10th. Posters can check my math but we have to work under the assumption of healthy lineup to start the season. I believe the max we could have offered either was about 1.5mill a year. Camp were getting ready to open and so far it sounds like Oilers were not on the same page as Holloways agent and Broberg agent was not really talking to the oilers. HE said at the end of the season Brobergs trade request stood.

Between Bowman who got hired on July 24th and JJ--they should have known after the last offers to the players were rejected--that the agents doing their job would then shop their clients. Darren Ferris has confirmed he had been in contact with the Blues since mid July.


SI' article on the oilers offer Oilers offer 1.1 mill

Details Emerge About Oilers Offer to Phillip Broberg

The St. Louis Blues added multiple budding prospects from the Edmonton Oilers by utilizing the rarely-seen offer sheet. With Dylan Holloway and Philip Broberg u

www.si.com

I have found nothing on line about Blake Robson's contact with the Oilers prior to the offer sheets being made

Yeh you could make the argument that some combination of Holland to JJ to Bowman should have known. I'm just saying they didn't.

To the bolded. Isn't that tampering? I mean he's our Restricted Free Agent. Why are they allowed to talk to teams like he's a UFA?

 

[brentashton]

Yeh you could make the argument that some combination of Holland to JJ to Bowman should have known. I'm just saying they didn't.

To the bolded. Isn't that tampering? I mean he's our Restricted Free Agent. Why are they allowed to talk to teams like he's a UFA?

Darren Ferris can talk to anyone about anything. That’s his job as an agent.

The Blues are the ones that would have to be careful of “tampering”. But to be clear, lots of wink wink nudge nudge hypothetical discussions can be had. The NHL knows they have little ability to police it and find the evidence to punish (hence their weak warning pronouncement this week about future potential tampering discussions - just a weak attempt to tighten it down).

 

[TheNumber4]

Darren Ferris can talk to anyone about anything. That’s his job as an agent.

The Blues are the ones that would have to be careful of “tampering”. But to be clear, lots of wink wink nudge nudge hypothetical discussions can be had. The NHL knows they have little ability to police it and find the evidence to punish (hence their weak warning pronouncement this week about future potential tampering discussions - just a weak attempt to tighten it down).

Yeh I get that it's hard to police. But I heard that story of them clamping down on tampering too, how can they clamp down on something without defined rules of what's allowed. If Agents are allowed to talk to anyone, then teams can talk to agents, which is the same as talking to the player...

I have to think on some level the anti-tampering rules exist for some reason and have had an effects on the League. Probably just another case of incompetent NHL rules.

 

[brentashton]

Yeh I get that it's hard to police. But I heard that story of them clamping down on tampering too, how can they clamp down on something without defined rules of what's allowed. If Agents are allowed to talk to anyone, then teams can talk to agents, which is the same as talking to the player...

I have to think on some level the anti-tampering rules exist for some reason and have had an effects on the League. Probably just another case of incompetent NHL rules.

The agent isn’t tampering. He has a legal and contractual obligation to the player. Technically, he can can talk to anyone about his player. He’s not tampering.

The team with no contract with the player is the one susceptible to tampering accusations because they do not have any legal relationship with the player, to discuss the player or possible future terms . It’s a thin wedge, where one party can talk but the other can’t. That’s what constitutes tampering.

 

[TheNumber4]

The agent isn’t tampering. He has a legal and contractual obligation to the player. Technically, he can can talk to anyone about his player. He’s not tampering.

The team with no contract with the player is the one susceptible to tampering accusations because they do not have any legal relationship with the player, to discuss the player or possible future terms . It’s a thin wedge, where one party can talk but the other can’t. That’s what constitutes tampering.

If a player is 3 months away from UFA status. That agent can talk to all interested teams? If that's the case, just throw out all rules on tampering, there's no way to stop it.

 

[brentashton]

If a player is 3 months away from UFA status. That agent can talk to all interested teams? If that's the case, just throw out all rules on tampering, there's no way to stop it.

Nuance my friend. The agent can, the team can’t. It’s about what and how they talk. The world isn’t black and white.

 

[TheNumber4]

Nuance my friend. The agent can, the team can’t. It’s about what and how they talk. The world isn’t black and white.

Okay. So if Agent talks to a team and that team talks back. Team is automatically in the wrong as per tampering right?

 

[brentashton]

Okay. So if Agent talks to a team and that team talks back. Team is automatically in the wrong as per tampering right?

Not necessarily and definitely not automatically.

If they are speaking about non specific, hypothetical situations, it’s no harm no foul. It’s a fine line, I do agree.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Yeh you could make the argument that some combination of Holland to JJ to Bowman should have known. I'm just saying they didn't.

To the bolded. Isn't that tampering? I mean he's our Restricted Free Agent. Why are they allowed to talk to teams like he's a UFA?

NOPE to the bolded part

AS of July 1st you are allowed to talk to teams and teams can talk to agents. Prior to July 1st it is a no no.

Do you remember Dustin Penner Offer sheet? Or Vanek? How do you think offer sheets work?

all time offer sheets on RFAS

List of NHL players who have signed offer sheets - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Not necessarily and definitely not automatically.

If they are speaking about non specific, hypothetical situations, it’s no harm no foul. It’s a fine line, I do agree.

After July 1st when a player is not under contract--teams are allowed to talk to players.

I have to ask again..if not

Explain to me how teams offer sheet RFAS? There would be no offer sheets if teams could not talk to RFAS

Nuance my friend. The agent can, the team can’t. It’s about what and how they talk. The world isn’t black and white.

This is correct. But the agent could be in trouble for doing. But with RFAS just like UFAS when the are no longer under contract to said team? Teams can talk to whomever,

 

[brentashton]

NOPE to the bolded part

AS of July 1st you are allowed to talk to teams and teams can talk to agents. Prior to July 1st it is a no no.

Do you remember Dustin Penner Offer sheet? Or Vanek? How do you think offer sheets work?

all time offer sheets on RFAS

List of NHL players who have signed offer sheets - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

After July 1st when a player is not under contract--teams are allowed to talk to players.

I have to ask again..if not

Explain to me how teams offer sheet RFAS? There would be no offer sheets if teams could not talk to RFAS




This is correct. But the agent could be in trouble for doing. But with RFAS just like UFAS when the are no longer under contract to said team? Teams can talk to whomever,

Agreed. There is a window that opens for RFAs allowing open discussion. I was referring in general terms to agent/team discussions at anytime .

 

[TheNumber4]

Not necessarily and definitely not automatically.

If they are speaking about non specific, hypothetical situations, it’s no harm no foul. It’s a fine line, I do agree.

Yeh that’s my point. Seems like such a fine line that I’d be unpolicable in that situation. Don’t know how the NHL plans on tackling it

NOPE to the bolded part

AS of July 1st you are allowed to talk to teams and teams can talk to agents. Prior to July 1st it is a no no.

Do you remember Dustin Penner Offer sheet? Or Vanek? How do you think offer sheets work?

all time offer sheets on RFAS

List of NHL players who have signed offer sheets - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

After July 1st when a player is not under contract--teams are allowed to talk to players.

I have to ask again..if not

Explain to me how teams offer sheet RFAS? There would be no offer sheets if teams could not talk to RFAS




This is correct. But the agent could be in trouble for doing. But with RFAS just like UFAS when the are no longer under contract to said team? Teams can talk to whomever,

Okay so there’s a specified time frame that allows it. Makes senses

 

[Jumptheshark]

Agreed. There is a window that opens for RFAs allowing open discussion. I was referring in general terms to agent/team discussions at anytime .

I am not sure I was confused or something. But once a contract ends regardless of the player be UFA or RFA--teams can talk. It is not tampering. IF the teams talks to the agent in anyway shape or form before July 1st? That is a different discussion, regardless of the player status and that is why

NHL to talk to teams about tampering (the GMs)

Per 32 thoughts, the NHL is looking to talk to the teams about tampering, mainly because it's rather obvious that this is out there. He goes on to talk about the possible fines teams and individual people will face. Talked about how they don't want players to do that, either. At the GM...

forums.hfboards.com

From last week

 

[CanadasTeam99]

Nashville. Should be selling soon.