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[Evilsports]

McLeod went from 13 minutes a night to 14 minutes a night. Kostin went from 9 minutes a night to 10 minutes a night. One plays center and one plays wing. They had the same uptick in minutes over the course of a year.

Keep in mind that even with the 4 minutes a game extra that Mcleod got, he didn't put up any more points than Kostin. Neither of them are perfect players and leave some to be desired, but I can't see an argument for anyone picking Mcleod over Kostin especially based on potential. I wonder how much of it has to do with Mcleod being the in-house drafted Canadian boy product who skates fast. Sounds about right. Kostin was significantly more effective at generating points and hits when he was on the ice.

And not that +/- is a great stat to use, but Kostin had one of the best on our entire team. Mcleod had one of the worst.

Exactly what I was thinking. If Holland had drafted Klim it would be a different story. I think the recency bias of Kostin having cleared waivers clouds the way some people view the player.

I admittedly have a fan boy bias towards Kostin so take it for what it's worth.

 

[Nostradumbass]

2018 was an Offensive D-man heavy draft, and I vaguely recall the tiers were like this pre-draft:

Franchise: Dahlin
Tier 1: Hughes, Boqvist
Tier 2: Bouchard, Dobson, Smith

We were hoping for an outside chance that Boqvist would fall to us (and he almost did), but for sure we'd have a pretty good chance at grabbing one of the Tier 2 guys. In the end, all three were available.

Dobson was the more hyped prospect, Smith had more offensive upside but had size concerns, and Bouchard was the fast riser that year. I remember post-draft we were debating here whether or not we should've drafted Dobson instead. In the end I guess either would've worked out well for us.

The tiers were:
1. Dahlin
2. Dobson, Hughes, Bouchard
3. Boqvist, Smith

Everyone was surprised that Bouchard and Dobson dropped so far, some pundits were even speculating that Dobson would be the 2nd D drafted that year due to Hughes’ size.

I was surprised that the Oilers took Bouchard over Dobson, I thought Dobson was a Pietrangelo comparable at the time but it was hard to argue with Bouchard’s offensive numbers.

 

[Fourier]

The tiers were:
1. Dahlin
2. Dobson, Hughes, Bouchard
3. Boqvist, Smith

Everyone was surprised that Bouchard and Dobson dropped so far, some pundits were even speculating that Dobson would be the 2nd D drafted that year due to Hughes’ size.

I was surprised that the Oilers took Bouchard over Dobson, I thought Dobson was a Pietrangelo comparable at the time but it was hard to argue with Bouchard’s offensive numbers.

Yah, McKenzie's final rankings had Dobson #6, Bouchard #7 and Hughes #8. Honestly, its not yet clear how these three will compare at the end of their careers. Boqvist was #10.

Interestingly enough, of the top guys in that draft it was Zadina that scouts were most unsure of by the time of the final ranking.

 

[belair]

Exactly what I was thinking. If Holland had drafted Klim it would be a different story. I think the recency bias of Kostin having cleared waivers clouds the way some people view the player.

I admittedly have a fan boy bias towards Kostin so take it for what it's worth.

That bias is what's clouding the view. Players that play 10 minutes a night with zero contributions towards special teams are very replaceable and not far from the waiver wire. When their salary is increased it only increases the likelihood of that player becoming financially inefficient.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Kostin had a good reclamation year for us but the reality is if we gave him 2 mil and he took a step back he'd be the next Foegele/Kailer/JP. Try to sign/pick up the next guy to become a Kostin so we can get players who play above their paygrade rather than below.

 

[Soundwave]

We should have signed Kostin if we could have, the shit contracts on Campbell and Nurse and to a lesser degree Foegele are the reason we couldn't.

That's really all there is to it. There's no reason to take shots at the player, I'd leave my job too if someone else was offering 40%+ higher salary, I'm pretty sure most people would.

Kostin saved our ass in that LA series. Our bottom 6 has probably taken a bit of a hit, but it's unavoidable when you have 2+ bad contracts on the books. Since Connor/Leon are already used to getting jack shit from the bottom 6, I don't think they'll be impacted as much anyway, not in the regular season anyway.

 

[belair]

We should have signed Kostin if we could have, the shit contracts on Campbell and Nurse and to a lesser degree Foegele are the reason we couldn't.

That's really all there is to it. There's no reason to take shots at the player, I'd leave my job too if someone else was offering 40% higher salary, I'm pretty sure most people would.

Kostin saved our ass in that LA series. Our bottom 6 has probably taken a bit of a hit, but it's unavoidable when you have 2+ bad contracts on the books. Since Connor/Leon are already used to getting jack shit from the bottom 6, I don't think they'll be impacted as much anyway, not in the regular season anyway.

It will not be difficult to replace Kostin's contributions in the bottom six. Holloway's game improving is one way. And a full year of Janmark in a permanent role will essentially remove the need for him on the roster.

Disappointing to lose the edge and his personality but that contract wasn't going to provide value whether we could afford it or not.

 

[Soundwave]

It will not be difficult to replace Kostin's contributions in the bottom six. Holloway's game improving is one way. And a full year of Janmark in a permanent role will essentially remove the need for him on the roster.

Disappointing to lose the edge and his personality but that contract wasn't going to provide value whether we could afford it or not.

This is the Oilers. They couldn't replace Patrick Maroon until ... well Kostin basically, that was what? 5 years in between?

I'm not pencilling in Holloway on replacing anyone until he actually proves it on the ice against real NHL players, not just projection. Too many prospects have been banked on to be major contributors and haven't cut the mustard when called upon. If he does it great, but right now he hasn't proven shit at the NHL level. His rookie season was very mediocre.

 

[belair]

This is the Oilers. They couldn't replace Patrick Maroon until ... well Kostin basically, that was what? 5 years in between?

I'm not pencilling in Holloway on replacing anyone until he actually proves it on the ice against real NHL players, not just projection. Too many prospects have been banked on to be major contributors and haven't cut the mustard when called upon. If he does it great, but right now he hasn't proven shit at the NHL level. His rookie season was very mediocre.

They couldn't? What was Zach Hyman? Or Evander Kane?

The Oilers have had a revolving door of affordable depth players that find success on a roster with considerably more depth than the bad teams. We've been a good team for fringe players to find their games and earn their next paycheck.

The Oilers are not the team that should be giving these types of players that next contract. We've seen in Puljujarvi and in Yamamoto what happens when the player expects more.

I don't expect Holloway to blow the doors off either. But Kostin played 10 minutes a night and was realistically good for about 30 points over a full season. That's achievable from a number of sources in the bottom six.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

They couldn't? What was Zach Hyman? Or Evander Kane?

The Oilers have had a revolving door of affordable depth players that find success on a roster with considerably more depth than the bad teams. We've been a good team for fringe players to find their games and earn their next paycheck.

The Oilers are not the team that should be giving these types of players that next contract. We've seen in Puljujarvi and in Yamamoto what happens when the player expects more.

I don't expect Holloway to blow the doors off either. But Kostin played 10 minutes a night and was realistically good for about 30 points over a full season. That's achievable from a number of sources in the bottom six.

Realistically, not including Holloway, there are really 2 lineup spots open and one if we assume Holloway is starting the year in the lineup. I think we see one more depth signing to add a little competition but I’d really like to see all of Holloway, Lavoie and Bourgault getting some looks throughout the top 9 in the first half of the year before we make decisions heading into the deadline. The start of the year should be about accruing cap space and seeing if some of these young guys can find a spot and a role.

 

[McDoused]

I love this place.

Let's pretend for a minute that Holland bought out Yamamoto (500k penalty), dumped Foegele for nothing and then signed Kostin to a 2M x 2 year contract.

Not only would the team be worse but we would lose the flexibility of offloading Foegele's contract later if needed.

Foegele also has chemistry with our 3C in McLeod and can kill penalties, has like 3x the experience and 4x the points.

 

[McDNicks17]

You're right that McLeod was a 0.40 point per game guy and Cates was a 0.46 point per game guy last season.

However, Cates did get to play on the top power play unit with 8 of his 38 points coming there. He also got roughly two and a half minutes of even strength ice time more than McLeod a game. The line mate he produced most with at even strength was Konecny (Philly's best player) while McLeod had a three-way tie between Ryan, Holloway and Foegele.

I'm not sure how in depth arbitration hearings get but it's hard to say McLeod wouldn't have produced more than Cates given the same opportunities. He's just buried further down the lineup on a better team. I'd say that Cates contract is an overpay though for sure.

I'd say the Cates contract is a bargain just because of his ability as a defensive matchup guy. He led the Flyers in TOI vs. elites last year. For context, he would have been second on the Oilers with four minutes less than McDavid.

I'm not too sure if they look that deep into usage, but that's something he has a massive advantage in over McLeod.

 

[McDoused]

This is the Oilers. They couldn't replace Patrick Maroon until ... well Kostin basically, that was what? 5 years in between?

I'm not pencilling in Holloway on replacing anyone until he actually proves it on the ice against real NHL players, not just projection. Too many prospects have been banked on to be major contributors and haven't cut the mustard when called upon. If he does it great, but right now he hasn't proven shit at the NHL level. His rookie season was very mediocre.

The Oilers roster with Maroon on it vs now:

McDavid
Draisaitl
RNH
Strome vs Hyman
Lucic vs Kane
Maroon vs Brown
Cammalleri vs Foegele
Khaira vs McLeod
Caggiula vs Janmark
Puljujarvi vs Holloway
Letestu vs Ryan
Kassian vs Lavoie
Slepyshev vs Pederson
Rattie vs Bourgault

Are you really suggesting that Holland hasn't found a way to replace guys? This doesn't even factor in what he does at the deadline. We could even go get Bjugstad or Maroon at the deadline for cheap.

 

[oil Leaks]

The tiers were:
1. Dahlin
2. Dobson, Hughes, Bouchard
3. Boqvist, Smith

Everyone was surprised that Bouchard and Dobson dropped so far, some pundits were even speculating that Dobson would be the 2nd D drafted that year due to Hughes’ size.

I was surprised that the Oilers took Bouchard over Dobson, I thought Dobson was a Pietrangelo comparable at the time but it was hard to argue with Bouchard’s offensive numbers.

Both Dobson and Bouchard were close in the draft rankings. I also preferred Dobson, due to the fact he was a better skater. Not mad with Bouchard though.

 

[McShogun99]

Some people on here are making too big of a deal on losing Kostin. He would have been 5th on our LW depth chart behind RNH, Kane, Foegele and Holloway. I liked the player a lot but you don’t pay your 12/13th forward 2 million. He’d also be battling Lavoe for a roster spot since he needs waivers to be sent down.

 

[Fourier]

I'd say the Cates contract is a bargain just because of his ability as a defensive matchup guy. He led the Flyers in TOI vs. elites last year. For context, he would have been second on the Oilers with four minutes less than McDavid.

I'm not too sure if they look that deep into usage, but that's something he has a massive advantage in over McLeod.

This is certainly something that could be presented in an arbitration. Role is one of the factors and since it is possible to at least quantify this aspect of Cates game it should be fair game for an arbitration case.

 

[SwedishFire]

Some people on here are making too big of a deal on losing Kostin. He would have been 5th on our LW depth chart behind RNH, Kane, Foegele and Holloway. I liked the player a lot but you don’t pay your 12/13th forward 2 million. He’d also be battling Lavoe for a roster spot since he needs waivers to be sent down.

Kane RNH Fogele Kostin Holloway is he right answer, whereas short of RWs, Kane and Kostin would be able to slide over. Kostin was a miss.

 

[Soundwave]

The Oilers roster with Maroon on it vs now:

McDavid
Draisaitl
RNH
Strome vs Hyman
Lucic vs Kane
Maroon vs Brown
Cammalleri vs Foegele
Khaira vs McLeod
Caggiula vs Janmark
Puljujarvi vs Holloway
Letestu vs Ryan
Kassian vs Lavoie
Slepyshev vs Pederson
Rattie vs Bourgault

Are you really suggesting that Holland hasn't found a way to replace guys? This doesn't even factor in what he does at the deadline. We could even go get Bjugstad or Maroon at the deadline for cheap.

If we've been able to continually bring in good bottom 6 players, why is it that last season was basically the only year we've had a good bottom 6?

Obviously it is not that easy for our pro scouting to find guys, so it's a shame when we have to lose some of the few finds we do get, especially those with some grit to their game (Maroon, Kostin).

I think Kostin would've scored 25+ too (or at that rate, like Maroon) if he was given the minutes Yamamoto and Puljujarvi got without earning. The coaching staffs here sure have a stick up their ass about playing favorites sometimes, one guy gets unlimited playing time with McDrai even when they can't buy a goal, another guy doesn't get a sniff because he took a penalty 10 games prior.

 

[McDoused]

If we've been able to continually bring in good bottom 6 players, why is it that last season was basically the only year we've had a good bottom 6?

Obviously it is not that easy for our pro scouting to find guys, so it's a shame when we have to lose some of the few finds we do get, especially those with some grit to their game (Maroon, Kostin).

I think Kostin would've scored 25+ too (or at that rate, like Maroon) if he was given the minutes Yamamoto and Puljujarvi got without earning. The coaching staffs here sure have a stick up their ass about playing favorites sometimes, one guy gets unlimited playing time with McDrai even when they can't buy a goal, another guy doesn't get a sniff because he took a penalty 10 games prior.

It's actually pretty easy to figure out.

1. Holland didn't have any depth when he started here (Chiasson, Rattie, Rieder) etc.
2. The cap didnt go up and covid hit limiting his flexibility with the cap. He was stuck with anchors like Sekera and Lucic that he had to buy out.
3. Two of the guys he didnt draft (Yamamoto and JP) didn't turn out here. I don't think fans realize just how bare the cupboards were despite being such a bad team. It was Bouchard, Yamamoto, JP, Benson, Samorukov, Jones, McLeod, Lagesson. Were just seeing Bouchard and McLeod take steps this year.

Y1 (2019-2020): Added Athanasiou, Ennis, Green and turned Lucic into Neal
Covid hit
Y2 (2020-2021): Added Barrie, Kulikov
Y3 (2021-2022): Added Hyman, Foegele, Ryan, Ceci, Kane, Kulak and Keith
Y4 (2022-2023): Added Ekholm, Campbell, Janmark, Kostin, Bjugstad

 

[McSuper]

San Jose can have Bouchard and foegele for 50 percent retained Karlsson.

I think they need to pay a second team to retain another 50% of the remaining salary , on their dime ( Sharks are trying to sell high on an anomaly that last season was) . Karlsson is a risk and a declining player. Bouchard is young and improving and likely will be the better player with in 2 years . San Jose can jam that proposal where the sun don’t shine

 

[Bryanbryoil]

It's actually pretty easy to figure out.

1. Holland didn't have any depth when he started here (Chiasson, Rattie, Rieder) etc.
2. The cap didnt go up and covid hit limiting his flexibility with the cap. He was stuck with anchors like Sekera and Lucic that he had to buy out.
3. Two of the guys he didnt draft (Yamamoto and JP) didn't turn out here. I don't think fans realize just how bare the cupboards were despite being such a bad team. It was Bouchard, Yamamoto, JP, Benson, Samorukov, Jones, McLeod, Lagesson. Were just seeing Bouchard and McLeod take steps this year.

Y1 (2019-2020): Added Athanasiou, Ennis, Green and turned Lucic into Neal
Covid hit
Y2 (2020-2021): Added Barrie, Kulikov
Y3 (2021-2022): Added Hyman, Foegele, Ryan, Ceci, Kane, Kulak and Keith
Y4 (2022-2023): Added Ekholm, Campbell, Janmark, Kostin, Bjugstad

So how bare are our cupboards now? Broberg has to this point been a Caleb Jones level player not even an Ethan Bear level guy. Holloway has yet to carve out a spot for himself on the big club and Bourgault likely won't be on the big club again this season. We really need Hollands picks to start making positive impacts on the team if we want to take that next step while the cap is tight this season and next.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

So how bare are our cupboards now? Broberg has to this point been a Caleb Jones level player not even an Ethan Bear level guy. Holloway has yet to carve out a spot for himself on the big club and Bourgault likely won't be on the big club again this season. We really need Hollands picks to start making positive impacts on the team if we want to take that next step while the cap is tight this season and next.

Broberg also hasn't had the chance of playing with Nurse for a full season.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Broberg also hasn't had the chance of playing with Nurse for a full season.

Lucky for him.

 

[MessierII]

It was Bouchard, Yamamoto, JP, Benson, Samorukov, Jones, McLeod, Lagesson. Were just seeing Bouchard and McLeod take steps this year.

This part I disagree with. He inherited a pretty good prospect pool from chiarelli. In fact like half our team today is guys chiarelli drafted.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Lucky for him.

Harsh but hilarious.