Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Rainman Edition "I'm an Excellent Driver" Read OP and Watch Video For Educational Purposes

[FlameChampion]

This part I disagree with. He inherited a pretty good prospect pool from chiarelli. In fact like half our team today is guys chiarelli drafted.

Chiarelli inherited nothing prospect pool wise either.

We cant really say if drafting/development under Chiarelli or Holland has been better. Not really sold on Tyler Wright either. This team could really use some guys that come in and push guys out of the lineup especially guys who were drafted later. Its still early but if I am realistic, I am not sure I see it coming. But I guess to defend Tyler Wright any anyone before him, the Oilers for the longest time have played in the middling ground when it comes to drafting. They throw away picks continuously (or the league takes them), and they rarely ever find ways to acquire more. Feels like we are always drafting with 3, 4, or 5 picks. Rarely have 7 or 7+. In hindsight though, I wonder if the team would of been better trading the majority of picks (especially 2nd+) because drafting/development hasnt really knocked it out of the park anyway.

 

[Sanchez]

Some people on here are making too big of a deal on losing Kostin. He would have been 5th on our LW depth chart behind RNH, Kane, Foegele and Holloway. I liked the player a lot but you don’t pay your 12/13th forward 2 million. He’d also be battling Lavoe for a roster spot since he needs waivers to be sent down.

 

[bobbythebrain]

I can't believe TDA isn't signed yet. We were told he is a massive talent

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Taking the Ethan Bear comparison into consideration, Broberg's next season would be the one where he was latched onto Darnell Nurse and they rode the gravy train in terms of matchups. Bear didn't play in the NHL at 21.

Our prospect depth isn't ideal though. We need to be mindful of where we spend assets.

That's an understatement. Edmonton's prospect pool is bottom 5 in the NHL. And I don't buy "yeah but they're a good team" as an excuse, plenty of teams with better pools than we've got have also been more successful.

Holland/Wright biffing a top ten pick and looking like they may have biffed the Holloway pick as well don't bode well for our future. If you're going to keep and make those picks instead of turning them into win-now pieces, they absolutely have to be productive on their ELC's.

 

[OG Eberle]

Can't tell if some of the takes the last few pages are actual true hot takes or if just trying to find something to talk about in the dead of the NHL offseason...

 

[Beerfish]

I was happy enough with the Holloway pick, the draft was not too strong and he has shown enough that the guy still has good potential to be a player.

Totally hated the Broberg pick especially with guys we passed on.

Totally hated the trade down and take Bourgault pick for who we passed on.

To me we had two potentially very highly impactful players fall right into our laps and the team went for the 'We are smarter than everyone else' pick.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

That's an understatement. Edmonton's prospect pool is bottom 5 in the NHL. And I don't buy "yeah but they're a good team" as an excuse, plenty of teams with better pools than we've got have also been more successful.

Holland/Wright biffing a top ten pick and looking like they may have biffed the Holloway pick as well don't bode well for our future. If you're going to keep and make those picks instead of turning them into win-now pieces, they absolutely have to be productive on their ELC's.

People spent years complaining about the Oilers rushing and ruining prospects and now that they are bringing them along slowly and in appropriate roles people want to complain that they aren’t developing fast enough lol.

Klefbom was a good top 4 defender for us, how old was he when he played his first NHL game?

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

We seem to be in agreement with a lot of value on processing the play and making decisions with the puck. We notably have a lot of D who struggle with this, although it's interesting because we can agree that Bouchard may hold onto the puck far longer than any of these other guys, difference being he is collected and purposeful in his holding of it. With guys like Nurse, Broberg, and well, practically everyone else EXCEPT Bouchard and at times Ekholm, all of our D struggle mightily to handle the puck and make the 'right' play with it.

I was hyped on Broberg when we drafted him because I hadn't spent much time considering this aspect. His speed and size was tantalizing. However now when I try and analyze why I feel our D in general in comparison to opposition groups struggle, specifically Nurse, I note that when the puck is on his stick he usually looks lost or panicked. When he tries to stick handle or pass the puck is like a grenade. I view Broberg similarly. This is a player who just doesn't have good hands. Reminds me of Foegele as well at times. Clumsy players who made it to the NHL being three of the most physically gifted in terms of size and speed.

It's why I am hesitant on Akey as well. I now notice the same traits where although Akey is smoother, his decision making is so slow and clumsy that it seems more like a between the ears kind of issue. Some guys just don't have an elite mind for the game. For some reason they can't process the decision making at lightning fast speed and the play dies on their stick when the options they had to pass to are now slowed down on the other side of the ice or taken away by defenders. As we know with Nurse this typically turns into a weak snapshot from near the goal line in the offensive zone, or a chip off the glass in our zone. These guys simply run out of time over and over and over.

So yea, I am really worried about Broberg. I would wonder if we take the approach we DIDN'T take with Yamo and Pulju when we realized hey, maybe these guys aren't going to develop -- let's trade them while they still have some value. Instead, we lost one for nothing and paid for the other to be taken off our hands.

edit: I'm now trying to think of some players who have shown to be struggling with these aspects of the game, who struggled to stickhandle and make plays quicker, and turned it around a few years into the league. Any ideas?

I'm not overtly concerned about Broberg. I've identified what I feel are critical development areas of his game that will need to take a big step this year. However, we can't lose sight he had a very solid age 21 AHL season in his first year in North America. It's a huge adjustment for a European d-man to adapt to North American pro game of fast, physical contact style with smaller ice that requires quicker decision making. He showed flashes of what he can be with NHL games against Vegas and in Calgary during his first year pro. The critical reality is a need for game reps to gain experience and confidence at this highest apex level of competition to bring out consistency in his play which will lead to more aspects of his skills being unlocked as well. Tied to that will be need for more physical strength to handle battle areas in a far more aggressive NHL game than his Euro league lifetime of competition.

I don't necessarily paint all these players with the same brush. Nurse does an awful lot right for this team including tough minutes and critical situations in games. Unfortunately he often unravels this good work with instinctive overly aggressive plays that burns him and his team. Greater structure and discipline including simplifying the team's own zone defending systems are components Nurse needs to truly finish his game. I think that includes a highly structured veteran top 4 d-partner who can help stabilize Nurse's game (and blindspot moments). Bouchard is a great model of a young talent with some developmental holes in his game who took a massive step with an elite veteran d-man to help stabilize, mentor and complement his game. Foegele is what he is, a 4th/3rd line tweener forward with speed, erratic motor, and poor hands. Yamamoto outshot his value for contract on a cap strapped team in part to serious injuries. Puljujarvi doesn't process the game fast enough at NHL speed which limits his raw size and skills.

Way to early to characterize Akey and can't lose sight that he is a 3rd round pick. A project with some tantalizing skating and what looks like good puck moving skills and latent offensive upside prior to the elite Clarke being returned to their junior team. He's four to five years from knowing if he has NHL level ability. Good raw package and a system need for where the Oilers picked him.

The development process is under appreciated at times by some fans. It takes time, especially on good teams, to onboard and contribute to success. Unlike lottery teams, there's no stopping the train to live through developmental gaps and hard knocks learning.

 

[belair]

That's an understatement. Edmonton's prospect pool is bottom 5 in the NHL. And I don't buy "yeah but they're a good team" as an excuse, plenty of teams with better pools than we've got have also been more successful.

Holland/Wright biffing a top ten pick and looking like they may have biffed the Holloway pick as well don't bode well for our future. If you're going to keep and make those picks instead of turning them into win-now pieces, they absolutely have to be productive on their ELC's.

What? How do you get to that point from what I wrote? Broberg and Holloway are trending exactly how we need them to. Otherwise, they'd be pushing for more money on their second contracts. It's good that Holloway hasn't latched onto a scoring line and put up a phantom stretch of production the way Yamamoto did.

Our prospect depth extends beyond its top end. And after this brief window of current AHL forwards, there isn't much bubbling in the junior ranks. They need a year or two to make a handful of picks to replenish. It's inevitable that some of those prospects are going to miss.

 

[duul]

What? How do you get to that point from what I wrote? Broberg and Holloway are trending exactly how we need them to. Otherwise, they'd be pushing for more money on their second contracts. It's good that Holloway hasn't latched onto a scoring line and put up a phantom stretch of production the way Yamamoto did.

Our prospect depth extends beyond its top end. And after this brief window of current AHL forwards, there isn't much bubbling in the junior ranks. They need a year or two to make a handful of picks to replenish. It's inevitable that some of those prospects are going to miss.

'It's a GOOD thing our first round prospects aren't NHL ready 4-5 years post draft'.

 

[Fourier]

'It's a GOOD thing our first round prospects aren't NHL ready 4-5 years post draft'.

Who are you talking about? Broberg played 46 games in his draft +4 year and would have probably been up most of the year other than for the the cap issues the team had. He is 5th in total NHL games played amongst defensemen from his draft. Holloway played 51 games last year in his D+3 year. Bouchard was a full time NHL'er in his D+4 year. So was Yamamoto. This is XB's D+3 year and he may have a shot this year.

 

[DrDrai]

I was happy enough with the Holloway pick, the draft as not too strong and he has shown enough that the guy still has good potential to be a player.

Totally hated the Broberg pick especially with guys we passed on.

Totally hated the trade down and take Bourgault pick for who we passed on.

To me we had two potentially very highly impactful players fall right into our laps and the team went for the 'We are smarter than everyone else' pick.

I get the Broberg pick to a degree, but I wanted Zegras.

Bourgault I hated since we passed on Wallstedt and I wanted Mercer over Holloway.

Holloway was trending nicely in Wisconsin and unfortunately hasn't shown that level in the NHL or stayed healthy.

I'm a big proponent of drafting the best player, then if you want trade that player for a need. Imagine if you decided that zegras was a luxury and panned out the way he has, then trading him for an established D man

 

[duul]

Who are you talking about? Broberg played 46 games in his draft +4 year and would have probably been up most of the year other than for the the cap issues the team had. He is 5th in total NHL games played amongst defensemen from his draft. Holloway played 51 games last year in his D+3 year. Bouchard was a full time NHL'er in his D+4 year. So was Yamamoto. This is XB's D+3 year and he may have a shot this year.

Do you think Broberg and/or Holloway are NHL ready? Bouchard wasn't mentioned in the post I was quoting so I did not include him in my remark. Fact of the matter is Broberg and Holloway are two duds at this point in time, even if they've both played half a seasons worth of games -- unless they both improve dramatically they will be considered busts. Neither, given their last seasons performances, can be considered valuable NHL player. Maybe that will change this year. Let us hope...

Playing in the NHL =/= NHL ready.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

People spent years complaining about the Oilers rushing and ruining prospects and now that they are bringing them along slowly and in appropriate roles people want to complain that they aren’t developing fast enough lol.

Klefbom was a good top 4 defender for us, how old was he when he played his first NHL game?

Klefbom is the exception, not the rule. For every Klefbom there are four or five Jake Bean's.

Broberg is an NHLer, and he will be an NHLer for a long time, but I pretty firmly recall that most scouts and hockey people pegged his ceiling as a 3/4. For that reason alone I didn't like the pick.

What? How do you get to that point from what I wrote? Broberg and Holloway are trending exactly how we need them to. Otherwise, they'd be pushing for more money on their second contracts. It's good that Holloway hasn't latched onto a scoring line and put up a phantom stretch of production the way Yamamoto did.

Our prospect depth extends beyond its top end. And after this brief window of current AHL forwards, there isn't much bubbling in the junior ranks. They need a year or two to make a handful of picks to replenish. It's inevitable that some of those prospects are going to miss.

That's my point, not anyone elses... But then again I was pretty firmly on the Zegras train for #8 and I wanted Mercer in the Holloway spot.

Holloway and Broberg aren't dead in the water yet and they've had a hard time at least partially because of injuries, but we really need them to take a step this year. At very least Broberg and Holloway making Kulak and Foegele expendable would open up some options for us.

 

[belair]

'It's a GOOD thing our first round prospects aren't NHL ready 4-5 years post draft'.

No, it's a good thing that our mid round 1sts don't immediately produce average production latched to elite support. That's how they price themselves out earlier.

This board frequently fails to grasp the concept that there's a type of prospect that fits between the immediate high end, elite producers and the certified busts.

 

[McTonyBrar]

I get the Broberg pick to a degree, but I wanted Zegras.

Bourgault I hated since we passed on Wallstedt and I wanted Mercer over Holloway.

Holloway was trending nicely in Wisconsin and unfortunately hasn't shown that level in the NHL or stayed healthy.

I'm a big proponent of drafting the best player, then if you want trade that player for a need. Imagine if you decided that zegras was a luxury and panned out the way he has, then trading him for an established D man

LOL Holloway has had 1 pro season.
One. One pro season. Less than 82 games. In the 12 AHL games he has gotten to play, he has scored 7 goals.

What universe are you in?

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Can't tell if some of the takes the last few pages are actual true hot takes or if just trying to find something to talk about in the dead of the NHL offseason...

I'm an excellent driver.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Klefbom is the exception, not the rule. For every Klefbom there are four or five Jake Bean's.

Broberg is an NHLer, and he will be an NHLer for a long time, but I pretty firmly recall that most scouts and hockey people pegged his ceiling as a 3/4. For that reason alone I didn't like the pick.



That's my point, not anyone elses... But then again I was pretty firmly on the Zegras train for #8 and I wanted Mercer in the Holloway spot.

Holloway and Broberg aren't dead in the water yet and they've had a hard time at least partially because of injuries, but we really need them to take a step this year. At very least Broberg and Holloway making Kulak and Foegele expendable would open up some options for us.

So in your eyes mid first round picks are either NHL players or busts by D+3/4?

Projecting 17-18 year olds is really hard and I’d suggest both Broberg and Holloway were guys who were very raw and the organization understood it was going to be a process with these players.

Guys like Klefbom aren’t the exception, your expectation is the exception. Take a look around the league and the overwhelming majority of top 4 defenders took 3-5 years after being drafted to even get on the roster let alone playing top 4, unless of course they were elite or they were on a bad team that was rushing them and playing them above their head.

 

[Fourier]

Do you think Broberg and/or Holloway are NHL ready? Bouchard wasn't mentioned in the post I was quoting so I did not include him in my remark. Fact of the matter is Broberg and Holloway are two duds at this point in time, even if they've both played half a seasons worth of games -- unless they both improve dramatically they will be considered busts. Neither, given their last seasons performances, can be considered valuable NHL player. Maybe that will change this year. Let us hope...

Playing in the NHL =/= NHL ready.

Yes. Both players are NHL ready.

 

[Anarchism]

I was happy enough with the Holloway pick, the draft as not too strong and he has shown enough that the guy still has good potential to be a player.

Totally hated the Broberg pick especially with guys we passed on.

Totally hated the trade down and take Bourgault pick for who we passed on.

To me we had two potentially very highly impactful players fall right into our laps and the team went for the 'We are smarter than everyone else' pick.

Were the picks from almost everyone else but Holland not .....Zegras, Mercer, Wallstedt??
Yeah except stupid me ...when Cozens wasnt picked and it got to buffalo I wanted Holland to trade our 2nd and 1st to move up and take him.
But when he picked Broberry i cursed so hard ...my property manager was just coming in and he thought i was really angry at him.
I can still see the Anaheim gm so happy running to the stage.....Zeeeeeegras'
He looked so happy that he could shit multi colored candy canes.
I haven't been so angry since A hole Lowe Picked Pitlick before Toffoli and then Drew Lombardi parachuted in and bent him over. Still remember Lowe hanging his head in defeat. The owner should have canned him right at the table.
What do you mean time heals all wounds.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

So in your eyes mid first round picks are either NHL players or busts by D+3/4?

Projecting 17-18 year olds is really hard and I’d suggest both Broberg and Holloway were guys who were very raw and the organization understood it was going to be a process with these players.

Guys like Klefbom aren’t the exception, your expectation is the exception. Take a look around the league and the overwhelming majority of top 4 defenders took 3-5 years after being drafted to even get on the roster let alone playing top 4, unless of course they were elite or they were on a bad team that was rushing them and playing them above their head.

I didn't say he was a bust, I said I didn't like the pick. Don't put words in my mouth.

Look at it objectively. He's entering his draft+5 season and between injuries and stalled development he hasn't been a regular in the NHL yet. Not even in a bottom pairing role. I think Ken Holland would agree with me as opposed to you, considering he's traded for two left handed defencemen with term since drafting Broberg.

"projecting 17-18 year olds is really hard" is pretty apologist especially when applied to guys whose job it is to project 17-18 year olds. Particularly when their drafting record is as poor as Tyler Wright's is.

Take a look around the league. The overwhelming majority of top 4 defencemen were top 4 defencemen by the time they were 22. Even top 4 tweeners like Cody Ceci were farther along. I don't hate Broberg, but he's buried by depth and should be a trade chip. Holland is being stubborn and holding onto him for too long, and this franchise has more than enough trade trees that end with the Oilers getting nothing.

 

[Oilers in NS]

Why are you guys on here talking about hockey all the time when it's SUMMER.

Nerds!

Because
I’m an Expos fan
I’m a Packers fan
I’m an Oilers fan
2 are irrelevant now

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Were the picks from almost everyone else but Holland not .....Zegras, Mercer, Wallstedt??
Yeah except stupid me ...when Cozens wasnt picked and it got to buffalo I wanted Holland to trade our 2nd and 1st to move up and take him.
But when he picked Broberry i cursed so hard ...my property manager was just coming in and he thought i was really angry at him.

I'm just a dumbass on a hockey board talking with other dumbasses, that watches clips on the internet and reads scouting reports, and my Edmonton Oilers would have Trevor Zegras, Dawson Mercer, and Jesper Wallstedt either on the team or in the system.

Things very rarely go right when you try to prove yourself the smartest man in the room.

 

[belair]

That's my point, not anyone elses... But then again I was pretty firmly on the Zegras train for #8 and I wanted Mercer in the Holloway spot.

Holloway and Broberg aren't dead in the water yet and they've had a hard time at least partially because of injuries, but we really need them to take a step this year. At very least Broberg and Holloway making Kulak and Foegele expendable would open up some options for us.

This is the point where the conversation gets lost though. The Oilers need a Zegras like a hole in the head. What about his NHL game ever screamed 'winner' to you?

He's a supremely skilled puck carrier, but this is a guy who's about to make $7m a year being a clown on a team going nowhere. I can't see the alternate reality where we take him instead of Broberg and he proceeds to develop into a solid supporting forward.

Zegras is the type of player the Oilers have a history of mismanaging. Not to mention that soft left shot, one dimensional skill forward was pretty low on the list of needs.

Mercer, I'll give you. But we're also mid round at that point. This is also the point where Yamamoto was coming off of his 26 points in 27 games stretch and Puljujarvi was coming back overseas. The long-term organizational need dating back to that point was at 3C.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I'm just a dumbass on a hockey board talking with other dumbasses, that watches clips on the internet and reads scouting reports, and my Edmonton Oilers would have Trevor Zegras, Dawson Mercer, and Jesper Wallstedt either on the team or in the system.

Things very rarely go right when you try to prove yourself the smartest man in the room.

Just like 90% of this board was losing their mind at passing on Sam Bennett to draft draisaitl.