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belair

Win it for Ben!
Apr 9, 2010
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So how bare are our cupboards now? Broberg has to this point been a Caleb Jones level player not even an Ethan Bear level guy. Holloway has yet to carve out a spot for himself on the big club and Bourgault likely won't be on the big club again this season. We really need Hollands picks to start making positive impacts on the team if we want to take that next step while the cap is tight this season and next.
Taking the Ethan Bear comparison into consideration, Broberg's next season would be the one where he was latched onto Darnell Nurse and they rode the gravy train in terms of matchups. Bear didn't play in the NHL at 21.

Our prospect depth isn't ideal though. We need to be mindful of where we spend assets.
 

Bryanbryoil

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Taking the Ethan Bear comparison into consideration, Broberg's next season would be the one where he was latched onto Darnell Nurse and they rode the gravy train in terms of matchups. Bear didn't play in the NHL at 21.

Our prospect depth isn't ideal though. We need to be mindful of where we spend assets.
Broberg is 1 season away from being a suspect instead of a prospect. This season is huge in terms of whether he will be a long term fit here or if he'll be trade or waiver fodder. This will be his 5th season post draft, if he can't be a regular top 6 defenseman this season it may never happen for him or at least not here.
 

belair

Win it for Ben!
Apr 9, 2010
39,624
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Canada
Broberg is 1 season away from being a suspect instead of a prospect. This season is huge in terms of whether he will be a long term fit here or if he'll be trade or waiver fodder. This will be his 5th season post draft, if he can't be a regular top 6 defenseman this season it may never happen for him or at least not here.
Broberg is in a position where we can take our time with him. There's very little likelihood he gets a chance to play top four minutes unless he emerges as an option on the right side or there's an injury. On the left he's already proven he can thrive given bottom pair responsibilities. And that's all he'll need to do until Ekholm's contract ends.

This is Kulak's last year here. There's a role that's tailor-made for Broberg leading into his next contract. Any panic about Broberg as a prospect is entirely unwarranted.
 

Trafalgar Sadge Law

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Nov 8, 2007
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Man news feels so slow. Is everyone still just waiting on the Kane/Tarasenko dominoes to fall or something? Gimme Comtois plz thanks.
 

Behind Enemy Lines

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Broberg is in a position where we can take our time with him. There's very little likelihood he gets a chance to play top four minutes unless he emerges as an option on the right side or there's an injury. On the left he's already proven he can thrive given bottom pair responsibilities. And that's all he'll need to do until Ekholm's contract ends.

This is Kulak's last year here. There's a role that's tailor-made for Broberg leading into his next contract. Any panic about Broberg as a prospect is entirely unwarranted.
Agree with a lot of your post. He's tracking pretty consistent with the defensemen of his draft class except the two elites picked ahead of him. Defense is likely the hardest to onboard and generally follow forwards in making the show. On a Window team, Broberg should realistically be insulated behind an elite veteran d-corp with right-sized minutes and quality of competition.

Where I quibble a bit is about 'any panic being uwarranted.' There's some development gaps that need to be unravelled through more ice-time and experience - his processing speed/ability against apex NHL competition and his physical strength to defend in battle areas within a far more physical and fast NHL game than Europe. The slower processing speed is hurting his reads, placing him in vulnerable physical situations, and with limited confidence to make plays. Now will it get better with experience or is it an innate weakness? Need more time to determine. On the physical side, he's tall and rangy but struggling with mature, strong and physical opposition. The strength will come in due course.

Strangely that conservative Holland and Woodcroft were publicly anointing Broberg a roster spot last year and had expected him to have a regular roster spot and minutes. That wilted away with Woodcroft reducing minutes through the stretch drive. And this off-season Holland now declaring he needs to figure out Broberg.

This is a high pedigree kid who wore letters on a strong national team for three years - a rarity for Sweden. But the NHL jump is a huge leap up and as I'm prone to say with elite Window stage teams like trying to jump on a speeding bullet train. Highly unrealistic to call this player a bust but also not unrealistic to question his fit on a mature veteran team that feels it can win a Cup within the next one to three years.
 

Anarchism

John Henry
May 23, 2019
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Agree with a lot of your post. He's tracking pretty consistent with the defensemen of his draft class except the two elites picked ahead of him. Defense is likely the hardest to onboard and generally follow forwards in making the show. On a Window team, Broberg should realistically be insulated behind an elite veteran d-corp with right-sized minutes and quality of competition.

Where I quibble a bit is about 'any panic being uwarranted.' There's some development gaps that need to be unravelled through more ice-time and experience - his processing speed/ability against apex NHL competition and his physical strength to defend in battle areas within a far more physical and fast NHL game than Europe. The slower processing speed is hurting his reads, placing him in vulnerable physical situations, and with limited confidence to make plays. Now will it get better with experience or is it an innate weakness? Need more time to determine. On the physical side, he's tall and rangy but struggling with mature, strong and physical opposition. The strength will come in due course.

Strangely that conservative Holland and Woodcroft were publicly anointing Broberg a roster spot last year and had expected him to have a regular roster spot and minutes. That wilted away with Woodcroft reducing minutes through the stretch drive. And this off-season Holland now declaring he needs to figure out Broberg.

This is a high pedigree kid who wore letters on a strong national team for three years - a rarity for Sweden. But the NHL jump is a huge leap up and as I'm prone to say with elite Window stage teams like trying to jump on a speeding bullet train. Highly unrealistic to call this player a bust but also not unrealistic to question his fit on a mature veteran team that feels it can win a Cup within the next one to three years.
Holland thinks your way. Me i think there is a trade out there that will fix some of our main weakness and we could milk fairly good value from Broberg as a piece in that trade.
But that would require we push our chips in...not in the plans for this team.
With Broberg it certainly could go either way--right now it looks more to the downside.
 
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McTonyBrar

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Apr 2, 2018
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We should have signed Kostin if we could have, the shit contracts on Campbell and Nurse and to a lesser degree Foegele are the reason we couldn't.

That's really all there is to it. There's no reason to take shots at the player, I'd leave my job too if someone else was offering 40%+ higher salary, I'm pretty sure most people would.

Kostin saved our ass in that LA series. Our bottom 6 has probably taken a bit of a hit, but it's unavoidable when you have 2+ bad contracts on the books. Since Connor/Leon are already used to getting jack shit from the bottom 6, I don't think they'll be impacted as much anyway, not in the regular season anyway.

So by your logic... Kostin is more important to the team than Nurse and Campbell. Okay.
 
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bobbythebrain

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Jul 30, 2016
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Broberg is 1 season away from being a suspect instead of a prospect. This season is huge in terms of whether he will be a long term fit here or if he'll be trade or waiver fodder. This will be his 5th season post draft, if he can't be a regular top 6 defenseman this season it may never happen for him or at least not here.

He was never a standout talent aside from skating, and his skating really hasn't evolved since the draft.
Unless he really improved it over this summer, it will be more of the same imo.

He never really showed having a great shot, physicality or slick playmaking.

Hopefully he can figure out how to help with some solid positioning and defense
 
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McTonyBrar

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Apr 2, 2018
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Lucky for him.
Some of your guys hate for Nurse is really immature without any logic behind it.

Ethan Bear played with him and he looked like he was a top 4 dman. Coincidence?
Ceci had his best season in years playing with Nurse the first year he was here. Coincidence?
Barrie played great with Nurse in his time here. Coincidence?
 

Beerfish

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Apr 14, 2007
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Broberg already is a suspect for where he was drafted. He should be moving from bottom pair to a really good chance top 4 at the very least.

And no we can;t afford to wait around for a years and hope he gets better at a time when he will have to be paid. You need decent to good cheap young players to actively contribute to offset big contracts elsewhere.
 

Bryanbryoil

Pray For Ukraine
Sep 13, 2004
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Some of your guys hate for Nurse is really immature without any logic behind it.

Ethan Bear played with him and he looked like he was a top 4 dman. Coincidence?
Ceci had his best season in years playing with Nurse the first year he was here. Coincidence?
Barrie played great with Nurse in his time here. Coincidence?
Ethan Bear could break the puck out when he wasn't pressured, so could Barrie. Ceci had a solid season in Pittsburgh before he came here. How was Bouchard with Nurse? His career really took off when paired with Darnell didn't it? The way that some of you talk it's like he elevates other defenders play the way that Ekholm did with Bouch. nefc
 

McTonyBrar

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Apr 2, 2018
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Ethan Bear could break the puck out when he wasn't pressured, so could Barrie. Ceci had a solid season in Pittsburgh before he came here. How was Bouchard with Nurse? His career really took off when paired with Darnell didn't it? The way that some of you talk it's like he elevates other defenders play the way that Ekholm did with Bouch. nefc
Then why has Bear fallen down a hole now? Ever since he left the Oilers? Barrie could not break out a puck I'm sorry. His first pass out of a zone was not very good. Yes but one of Ceci's best seasons was with Nurse. Bouchard's took off with Ekholm. He couldn't work just with Nurse. There were other Dmen as well.

No he doesn't elevate anyone as much as Ekholm but the way you talk about him is just idiotic. It's like you view him as a #6 Dman. This teams defence would be garbage without him just like it was garbage in the last game against Vegas. Mark my words.
 
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Bryanbryoil

Pray For Ukraine
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Then why has Bear fallen down a hole now? Ever since he left the Oilers? Barrie could not break out a puck I'm sorry. His first pass out of a zone was not very good. Yes but one of Ceci's best seasons was with Nurse. Bouchard's took off with Ekholm. He couldn't work just with Nurse. There were other Dmen as well.

No he doesn't elevate anyone as much as Ekholm but the way you talk about him is just idiotic. It's like you view him as a #6 Dman. This teams defence would be garbage without him just like it was garbage in the last game against Vegas. Mark my words.
He was falling down that hole in the playoffs in case you forgot.

So Barrie's first pass wasn't very good? I bet you think that Nurse has a better first pass than Bouchard and Ekholm too.

Nurse is a flawed player that is grossly overpaid. If he's your #2 or #3 defenseman and has a quality all around partner then you have a great pairing.
 
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Throttlehead

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So how bare are our cupboards now? Broberg has to this point been a Caleb Jones level player not even an Ethan Bear level guy. Holloway has yet to carve out a spot for himself on the big club and Bourgault likely won't be on the big club again this season. We really need Hollands picks to start making positive impacts on the team if we want to take that next step while the cap is tight this season and next.
Well I think the difference between Holland picks and all other GM's we had the last 10 years+ is he is not rushing any of them. In Broberg's case he's only played 69 NHL games and has been unlucky with injuries for the last 2 years unable to play full seasons. Im pretty sure they've told him to play simple hockey with no risk while being the 6-7 dman, give him some time, he'll be a top 4 eventually.

The same thing has happened with Holloway as far as injury is concerned. His skillset and style would have him playing in the top 6 but they are getting his feet wet on 3rd and 4th lines, his time will come, he's got too much going for him not to be a good NHLer.

Bourgault and Lavoie are looking good and will get a chance when the time is right and this year could be the time Lavoie gets a good look.

I much prefer the GM making the young guys pay their dues and learning the Pro game instead of marching newly drafted players around Edmonton hyping them up to be the next Kuri, Gretzky, Messier, Coffey and throwing them in the fire. We have done this in the past and totally destroyed or stunted players. Holland is doing this correctly.
 

Behind Enemy Lines

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Well I think the difference between Holland picks and all other GM's we had the last 10 years+ is he is not rushing any of them. In Broberg's case he's only played 69 NHL games and has been unlucky with injuries for the last 2 years unable to play full seasons. Im pretty sure they've told him to play simple hockey with no risk while being the 6-7 dman, give him some time, he'll be a top 4 eventually.

The same thing has happened with Holloway as far as injury is concerned. His skillset and style would have him playing in the top 6 but they are getting his feet wet on 3rd and 4th lines, his time will come, he's got too much going for him not to be a good NHLer.

Bourgault and Lavoie are looking good and will get a chance when the time is right and this year could be the time Lavoie gets a good look.

I much prefer the GM making the young guys pay their dues and learning the Pro game instead of marching newly drafted players around Edmonton hyping them up to be the next Kuri, Gretzky, Messier, Coffey and throwing them in the fire. We have done this in the past and totally destroyed or stunted players. Holland is doing this correctly.
Agree with your post. The Oiler Rebuild(s) should be textbooks about how not to bottom out and attempt rebuilding your franchise. Latch key kids played too high in the line-up with either poor, insufficient or no adult supervision to help buffer their onboarding. Now that this is a mature Window phase organization it is highly unrealistic to think inexperienced green banana players are going to waltz on this veteran team and assert themselves into cornerstone positions. Especially young d-men in a position that is easily exposed.

Broberg had a very solid first year in North America. Top pair, all situational play in the AHL with some strong games in call-up situations as early as a couple months in to year one in North America. There is evidence of a young player adapting and figuring out NHL apex speed, physical and talent level, but, the development path for 95% of all pro players is not a linear hockey stick. Defense especially is a very unforgiving position unlike forwards who can be insulated and have two lines of defense behind them to cover up mistakes. Without question, the organization is asking Broberg to focus on being a competent defender before adding other elements to his game.

Easier to onboard quicker on shitty teams. Thankfully that's not the case with the Oilers and with that it falls as expected to a veteran heavy roster to drive the hunt for a Cup. Slotting in and insulating young players within insulated situations to help, ideally, without sewering their challenging personal development within context of a team and organization and ownership and fanbase expecting to challenge for a Cup.
 

Behind Enemy Lines

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Holland thinks your way. Me i think there is a trade out there that will fix some of our main weakness and we could milk fairly good value from Broberg as a piece in that trade.
But that would require we push our chips in...not in the plans for this team.
With Broberg it certainly could go either way--right now it looks more to the downside.
Barring some sort of epic collapse, the Oil should be able to run status quo until the trade deadline. This will give runway to evaluate the play of Ceci, Broberg and Kulak of which one likely needs to be sacrificed for a required top 4 d upgrade (a necessity imo). Ceci or Kulak would be the Tyson Barrie type piece that moves out salary. If it came to it, Broberg a prospective top prospect consideration to move if he doesn't establish himself on this Window veteran roster.

Having Broberg develop and stabilize as an affordable third pairing guy while this team chases Cups would be right-size development. It's really okay for green bananas to ripen in support roles, help drag salary for a cap team, and gain the critical experience to grow over time into higher responsibility on a mature phase veteran club. Now if he stalls with the runway this regular season affords, then the organization has a decision to make. And maybe it needs to sacrifice its best young d-men of a very limited system to get the veteran d upgrade this team needs now to get over the top.

Said for the past two years this defense isn't good enough to be the backbone of a Cup team. They've landed Ekholm and need a similar quality veteran at RD. The d-corp's shortfall hasn't been a 21, now 22 young defenseman trying to onboard a team seeking a Cup.
 
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Anarchism

John Henry
May 23, 2019
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Barring some sort of epic collapse, the Oil should be able to run status quo until the trade deadline. This will give runway to evaluate the play of Ceci, Broberg and Kulak of which one likely needs to be sacrificed for a required top 4 d upgrade (a necessity imo). Ceci or Kulak would be the Tyson Barrie type piece that moves out salary. If it came to it, Broberg a prospective top prospect consideration to move if he doesn't establish himself on this Window veteran roster.

Having Broberg develop and stabilize as an affordable third pairing guy while this team chases Cups would be right-size development. It's really okay for green bananas to ripen in support roles, help drag salary for a cap team, and gain the critical experience to grow over time into higher responsibility on a mature phase veteran club. Now if he stalls with the runway this regular season affords, then the organization has a decision to make. And maybe it needs to sacrifice its best young d-men of a very limited system to get the veteran d upgrade this team needs now to get over the top.

Said for the past two years this defense isn't good enough to be the backbone of a Cup team. They've landed Ekholm and need a similar quality veteran at RD. The d-corp's shortfall hasn't been a 21, now 22 young defenseman trying to onboard a team seeking a Cup.
Unfortunately Holland is of the same mind ....lets wait and see. The deadline is a time to fix one hole and possibly support a second area.
Im sure you have looked at the Vegas series with us and then the two series they played after us.
We have more than one hole. If Brown can stay healthy he helps.
But our bottom 6 potentially is weaker.
Our right side D remains the same.
Our goaltending is a mystery.
The same strategy beats us again.

So stay the same till the trade deadline. You cant do enough without a major remake/disruption.
3 Player changes at the deadline...good luck with that.
1 player change wont be enough to put you over the top...unless an existing player (not a rookie) like a Ceci dramatically improves or Campbell gets his mind back to play consistently. And of course as i've pointed out these improvements would need to be defensively.
You think your going to get a 'Conner Hellybuck' at the deadline? Thats a major gamble.
 

Fourier

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Dec 29, 2006
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Barring some sort of epic collapse, the Oil should be able to run status quo until the trade deadline. This will give runway to evaluate the play of Ceci, Broberg and Kulak of which one likely needs to be sacrificed for a required top 4 d upgrade (a necessity imo). Ceci or Kulak would be the Tyson Barrie type piece that moves out salary. If it came to it, Broberg a prospective top prospect consideration to move if he doesn't establish himself on this Window veteran roster.

Having Broberg develop and stabilize as an affordable third pairing guy while this team chases Cups would be right-size development. It's really okay for green bananas to ripen in support roles, help drag salary for a cap team, and gain the critical experience to grow over time into higher responsibility on a mature phase veteran club. Now if he stalls with the runway this regular season affords, then the organization has a decision to make. And maybe it needs to sacrifice its best young d-men of a very limited system to get the veteran d upgrade this team needs now to get over the top.

Said for the past two years this defense isn't good enough to be the backbone of a Cup team. They've landed Ekholm and need a similar quality veteran at RD. The d-corp's shortfall hasn't been a 21, now 22 young defenseman trying to onboard a team seeking a Cup.
I agree. Borberg really only needs to be a solid third pairing defenseman next year. If he can play at a level equivalent to Kulak but at under $1M that is a win for now. I was never overly enthusiastic about the pick outside of a short period when he first came over for the development camp. But I think there is a player there that could well mature into a solid top 4 defender with patience. And given that the Oilers have Nurse and Ekholm playing ahead of him they can afford to be patient.

Kulak and Ceci cost $6M combined. If they could have Broberg play Kulak's role at under $2M for the next three years and upgrade of the top pairing RDH is affordable. At the end of that period Ekholm's deal is up. I think he might re-sign at less than the $6M if he really is content in Edmonton.
 
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Kerberos

Hound of Hades
Nov 4, 2021
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Why are you guys on here talking about hockey all the time when it's SUMMER.

Nerds!
 

duul

Registered User
Jun 21, 2010
10,462
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Agree with a lot of your post. He's tracking pretty consistent with the defensemen of his draft class except the two elites picked ahead of him. Defense is likely the hardest to onboard and generally follow forwards in making the show. On a Window team, Broberg should realistically be insulated behind an elite veteran d-corp with right-sized minutes and quality of competition.

Where I quibble a bit is about 'any panic being uwarranted.' There's some development gaps that need to be unravelled through more ice-time and experience - his processing speed/ability against apex NHL competition and his physical strength to defend in battle areas within a far more physical and fast NHL game than Europe. The slower processing speed is hurting his reads, placing him in vulnerable physical situations, and with limited confidence to make plays. Now will it get better with experience or is it an innate weakness? Need more time to determine. On the physical side, he's tall and rangy but struggling with mature, strong and physical opposition. The strength will come in due course.

Strangely that conservative Holland and Woodcroft were publicly anointing Broberg a roster spot last year and had expected him to have a regular roster spot and minutes. That wilted away with Woodcroft reducing minutes through the stretch drive. And this off-season Holland now declaring he needs to figure out Broberg.

This is a high pedigree kid who wore letters on a strong national team for three years - a rarity for Sweden. But the NHL jump is a huge leap up and as I'm prone to say with elite Window stage teams like trying to jump on a speeding bullet train. Highly unrealistic to call this player a bust but also not unrealistic to question his fit on a mature veteran team that feels it can win a Cup within the next one to three years.
We seem to be in agreement with a lot of value on processing the play and making decisions with the puck. We notably have a lot of D who struggle with this, although it's interesting because we can agree that Bouchard may hold onto the puck far longer than any of these other guys, difference being he is collected and purposeful in his holding of it. With guys like Nurse, Broberg, and well, practically everyone else EXCEPT Bouchard and at times Ekholm, all of our D struggle mightily to handle the puck and make the 'right' play with it.

I was hyped on Broberg when we drafted him because I hadn't spent much time considering this aspect. His speed and size was tantalizing. However now when I try and analyze why I feel our D in general in comparison to opposition groups struggle, specifically Nurse, I note that when the puck is on his stick he usually looks lost or panicked. When he tries to stick handle or pass the puck is like a grenade. I view Broberg similarly. This is a player who just doesn't have good hands. Reminds me of Foegele as well at times. Clumsy players who made it to the NHL being three of the most physically gifted in terms of size and speed.

It's why I am hesitant on Akey as well. I now notice the same traits where although Akey is smoother, his decision making is so slow and clumsy that it seems more like a between the ears kind of issue. Some guys just don't have an elite mind for the game. For some reason they can't process the decision making at lightning fast speed and the play dies on their stick when the options they had to pass to are now slowed down on the other side of the ice or taken away by defenders. As we know with Nurse this typically turns into a weak snapshot from near the goal line in the offensive zone, or a chip off the glass in our zone. These guys simply run out of time over and over and over.

So yea, I am really worried about Broberg. I would wonder if we take the approach we DIDN'T take with Yamo and Pulju when we realized hey, maybe these guys aren't going to develop -- let's trade them while they still have some value. Instead, we lost one for nothing and paid for the other to be taken off our hands.

edit: I'm now trying to think of some players who have shown to be struggling with these aspects of the game, who struggled to stickhandle and make plays quicker, and turned it around a few years into the league. Any ideas?
 
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