Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Rainman Edition "I'm an Excellent Driver" Read OP and Watch Video For Educational Purposes

[FunkyChicken]

The focus should be on getting something with term for Bouchard.
If I had a choice between signing McLeod at $2M or moving him for picks and getting someone like Grant for league minimum but then signing Bouchard to say a 5x5 deal, I would take the latter.

 

[duul]

The focus should be on getting something with term for Bouchard.
If I had a choice between signing McLeod at $2M or moving him for picks and getting someone like Grant for league minimum but then signing Bouchard to say a 5x5 deal, I would take the latter.

Same.

We're at a point in the McDrai timeline where we need to bet on Bouchard here. We're at the precipice and need to take the leap of faith and ensure we're good for the next couple years. Because no matter what happens, a guy like Bouchard is the make or break type for this club. If he falters, we're f***ed anyway. We need him to end up being that top pairing guy we so desperately need, so might as well pay him a longer, slightly higher salary to ensure we have him around for the rest of the window (which I consider to be already waning).

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

The focus should be on getting something with term for Bouchard.
If I had a choice between signing McLeod at $2M or moving him for picks and getting someone like Grant for league minimum but then signing Bouchard to say a 5x5 deal, I would take the latter.

Bouchard probably wouldn’t sign anything long term unless it starts with a 6 or 7 given how high the cap will rise over the next 5 seasons after this. Also trading a young still team controlled 3C with a decent upside for a wasting away older 4C is insane.

 

[McShogun99]

Bouchard probably wouldn’t sign anything long term unless it starts with a 6 or 7 given how high the cap will rise over the next 5 seasons after this. Also trading a young still team controlled 3C with a decent upside for a wasting away older 4C is insane.

Bouchards contract after this one will be starting with an 8 at minimum unless he’s horrible defensively like Barrie was, then it will be around 7 million.

 

[The Nuge]

Make Briere a deal he can't refuse.
The team as it stands is not good enough. But most of the big bones are there. Were close enough its time to gamble with prospects and futures.

Agreed. They’re tanking and they’ve got 4 pieces who make sense for us to acquire (Konecny, Laughton, Hart, and Seeler). Heck, I might even be tempted to offer them something like Campbell for Petersen, if we could find a 3rd team to retain 50% on Petersen, to shorten up the term we have on our backup.

Oof. edm’s bottom 6 took a huge step back. Losing 2 big bodies in kostin and bjugstad hurts. maybe holland can do something at the trade deadline.

Maybe. A huge factor will be Holloway. If he can step up to be a 30-40 point guy, we could have a pretty good third line with some combination of Janmark, Holloway, Foegele, and McLeod. Then Ryan gets whoever doesn’t make the cut on the 4th line.

I wouldn't worry about that.

With the way the roster is right now, I'd say there's a giant red neon flashing sign saying Woodcroft plans to run 11-7 again.

Especially with Holland talking about wanting to get Broberg more minutes.

 

[belair]

Do you realize that not only are Kostin and Mcleod the same age, but they played the same amount of games with a 2 point differential yea? Mcleod played ~250 more minutes.

It's as simple as that. Kostin has far more potential to break out than Mcleod does, because Kostin plays the game like a man. We talk about Yamamoto doing this and that, but Kostin on one of those top 6 lines would've had 30. Did you see this guy cannoning shots from all over the rink?

He played significantly less than Mcleod, with worse linemates, and put up the same amount of points AT THE SAME AGE! The fact people are in here saying it's 'obvious' that Mcleod is a better player are totally out to lunch. If you're calling Kostin a 4th liner not worth 2 million a year, how can you defend Mcleod?

McLeod is trending as a center that coaches use in a variety of situations, at even strength and on special teams. His average playing time has increased year over year.

Kostin's ice time has been limited by the coaches he's played for on both NHL teams he's been on this far. There's a reason why those minutes have been limited.

There's a small chance that there's a Patrick Maroon like offensive emergence from him at some point. But there's a far greater likelihood that Kostin remains that fourth line energy forward who slips in and out of the coach's doghouse due to streaky offense, poor defensive reads and puck mismanagement and the rather frequent idiotic penalty.

McLeod >>> Kostin both now and in the future

 

[Ibanez]

I might be in the minority here (hard to tell with this site sometimes lol)

But I don’t think McLeod is someone we want to give up on. He’s got a few knocks on him (perimeter play, little soft at times and sometimes ghosts out there).

But I see a player with a lot of really good tools that with good coaching can become an excellent two way Center. He has speed and his hands are above average. We just need more consistency.

Not saying he’s the same type of player as horcoff but scorecoff took time to come on as a player. Patience was key there

 

[duul]

McLeod is trending as a center that coaches use in a variety of situations, at even strength and on special teams. His average playing time has increased year over year.

Kostin's ice time has been limited by the coaches he's played for on both NHL teams he's been on this far. There's a reason why those minutes have been limited.

There's a small chance that there's a Patrick Maroon like offensive emergence from him at some point. But there's a far greater likelihood that Kostin remains that fourth line energy forward who slips in and out of the coach's doghouse due to streaky offense, poor defensive reads and puck mismanagement and the rather frequent idiotic penalty.

McLeod >>> Kostin both now and in the future

Bolded means nothing. Every young player gains ice time, they've both only played two years in the league...

Klim was putting up less numbers than Maroon yes, but played significantly less minutes and none of them with McDavid. If he got the Maroon treatment he would've put up just as many as Maroon did here. Easily. I watch the guy play and he's a small amount of confidence away from starting to take over games. He's a winger, his defensive responsibilties are the least important of anyone on the ice. This is not an excuse for his faults, but the defensive side of the game takes time to learn, as you've agreed with by propping up Mcleod as the 'trending' centre with increasing ice time.

It's silly to compare them as well in terms of limited ice time or not, as Woodcroft has not only coached Mcleod through the entirety of his pro career, but also a guy like Desharnais who kept getting thrown out there after costing us single handedly on probably half the goals scored against us in the playoffs. Woodcroft is not the all-knowing appropriate line distibuter. In fact he's likely the opposite, as only he has opted to run 11-7 and overload certain players in certain situations. His ice time handing out has been suspect. More suspect than any other coach at least in the playoffs due to the 11-7, let alone riding McDrai at the expense of others.

I would chalk up Kostin's reduced usage to his injury and Woodcroft simply not knowing the player well enough to trust him in do or die games. Funnily enough whenever he would get out there with Bjugstad a goal followed.

If you can't tell, I am pretty bothered that we moved on from Kostin and hopefully I end up being wrong about it. We'll see how the first bit of this year transpires..as we're an alleged cup contending team, if he starts to pop off it would be distressing.

His ice time being limited slightly moreso than Mcleod were probably due to him being a rookie on a Cup winning/contending team...truly the best in the entire league, and then coming to another team who thought they were a Cup winning/contending team to a new coach who doesn't know or trust him down the stretch.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Kostin trending to be the next Lindros and Tony Deangelo/Nurse pairing would be one of the top pairing in the entire NHL!!

Man, Holland has no insight letting 2 megastars slip thru his fingers

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

The focus should be on getting something with term for Bouchard.
If I had a choice between signing McLeod at $2M or moving him for picks and getting someone like Grant for league minimum but then signing Bouchard to say a 5x5 deal, I would take the latter.

I just don't know why Bouchard's camp would say yes to a 5x5. You'd get a millionish more for the next year or two, but then throw away the potential for 3+ the three seasons after... not to mention, you run the risk of no longer putting up points with McDrai in 5 years to inflate the next contract

 

[belair]

Bolded means nothing. Every young player gains ice time, they've both only played two years in the league...

Klim was putting up less numbers than Maroon yes, but played significantly less minutes and none of them with McDavid. If he got the Maroon treatment he would've put up just as many as Maroon did here. Easily. I watch the guy play and he's a small amount of confidence away from starting to take over games. He's a winger, his defensive responsibilties are the least important of anyone on the ice. This is not an excuse for his faults, but the defensive side of the game takes time to learn, as you've agreed with by propping up Mcleod as the 'trending' centre with increasing ice time.

It's silly to compare them as well in terms of limited ice time or not, as Woodcroft has not only coached Mcleod through the entirety of his pro career, but also a guy like Desharnais who kept getting thrown out there after costing us single handedly on probably half the goals scored against us in the playoffs. Woodcroft is not the all-knowing appropriate line distibuter. In fact he's likely the opposite, as only he has opted to run 11-7 and overload certain players in certain situations. His ice time handing out has been suspect. More suspect than any other coach at least in the playoffs due to the 11-7, let alone riding McDrai at the expense of others.

I would chalk up Kostin's reduced usage to his injury and Woodcroft simply not knowing the player well enough to trust him in do or die games. Funnily enough whenever he would get out there with Bjugstad a goal followed.

If you can't tell, I am pretty bothered that we moved on from Kostin and hopefully I end up being wrong about it. We'll see how the first bit of this year transpires..as we're an alleged cup contending team, if he starts to pop off it would be distressing.

His ice time being limited slightly moreso than Mcleod were probably due to him being a rookie on a Cup winning/contending team...truly the best in the entire league, and then coming to another team who thought they were a Cup winning/contending team to a new coach who doesn't know or trust him down the stretch.

Responsibility means nothing? McLeod's minutes regularly move into the 15 minute range in a game because he thrives in different situations. Multipositional. He's a flexible player.

And no, young players don't always get increased responsibilities. Kostin didn't. And it's not our coach that "didn't know" the player. St Louis handled him the exact same way.

We were fortunate to avoid Kostin's contract. Because the moment that it became apparent that he couldn't be relied upon to play a greater role, he would've been in the Puljujarvi/Yamamoto spot of being overpaid for his contributions. A negative investment.

IMO if you were to wait out Puljujarvi's rehab and signed him at $1m or less, I believe that there's a good chance that he'd outproduce Kostin next season. And he'd also be better defensively.

 

[duul]

Responsibility means nothing? McLeod's minutes regularly move into the 15 minute range in a game because he thrives in different situations. Multipositional. He's a flexible player.

And no, young players don't always get increased responsibilities. Kostin didn't. And it's not our coach that "didn't know" the player. St Louis handled him the exact same way.

We were fortunate to avoid Kostin's contract. Because the moment that it became apparent that he couldn't be relied upon to play a greater role, he would've been in the Puljujarvi/Yamamoto spot of being overpaid for his contributions. A negative investment.

IMO if you were to wait out Puljujarvi's rehab and signed him at $1m or less, I believe that there's a good chance that he'd outproduce Kostin next season. And he'd also be better defensively.

McLeod went from 13 minutes a night to 14 minutes a night. Kostin went from 9 minutes a night to 10 minutes a night. One plays center and one plays wing. They had the same uptick in minutes over the course of a year.

Keep in mind that even with the 4 minutes a game extra that Mcleod got, he didn't put up any more points than Kostin. Neither of them are perfect players and leave some to be desired, but I can't see an argument for anyone picking Mcleod over Kostin especially based on potential. I wonder how much of it has to do with Mcleod being the in-house drafted Canadian boy product who skates fast. Sounds about right. Kostin was significantly more effective at generating points and hits when he was on the ice.

And not that +/- is a great stat to use, but Kostin had one of the best on our entire team. Mcleod had one of the worst.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

McLeod is trending as a center that coaches use in a variety of situations, at even strength and on special teams. His average playing time has increased year over year.

Kostin's ice time has been limited by the coaches he's played for on both NHL teams he's been on this far. There's a reason why those minutes have been limited.

There's a small chance that there's a Patrick Maroon like offensive emergence from him at some point. But there's a far greater likelihood that Kostin remains that fourth line energy forward who slips in and out of the coach's doghouse due to streaky offense, poor defensive reads and puck mismanagement and the rather frequent idiotic penalty.

McLeod >>> Kostin both now and in the future

I see McLeod as the more overall impactful player. He can play all fwd positions, he can pk and like RNH he does a lot of good work that goes unnoticed. He’s great at turning the play around, back tracking, stealing pucks and obviously his speed is a tremendous asset.

Kostin has personality and he’s aggressive and physical, definitely a good guy to have on the roster. I also like his ability and finish around the net. That being said it’s a very short sample size to hand out a 2x2 contract on a physical winger who scored some timely goals while shooting 20%

 

[duul]

I see McLeod as the more overall impactful player. He can play all fwd positions, he can pk and like RNH he does a lot of good work that goes unnoticed. He’s great at turning the play around, back tracking, stealing pucks and obviously his speed is a tremendous asset.

Mcleod was in the bottom 2-3 for forwards who played a regular amount of games for us this year. Along with Kostin and Kane. I believe a lot of the posters here have crafted a narrative for Mcleod as being some younger version of RNH, when in reality he possesses a lot of the same flaws with few of the same talents.

He can skate fast, yes. That alone must generate most of the hype. Unfortunately that's about where it ends for me.

 

[Oilers in NS]

Guy wanted to get paid and maybe didn't like the coach's handling of his ice time. I doubt that he didn't like it there or the guys in the room.

He is making hay while the sun shines.

 

[Oilers in NS]

Kinda off topic but change of pace
What team do u think will regress the most in points this year?
I’m going with Bruins. I realize they had a big year but I think they regress big time

 

[McTonyBrar]

I might be in the minority here (hard to tell with this site sometimes lol)

But I don’t think McLeod is someone we want to give up on. He’s got a few knocks on him (perimeter play, little soft at times and sometimes ghosts out there).

But I see a player with a lot of really good tools that with good coaching can become an excellent two way Center. He has speed and his hands are above average. We just need more consistency.

Not saying he’s the same type of player as horcoff but scorecoff took time to come on as a player. Patience was key there

I don't ever want to lose McLeod. I don't know how fans don't see how good he can be and how good he already is. This is a potential 2nd line centre we have developed who is already decent as a 3rd line Centre AND has already proven he is good in the Playoffs. Oiler fans want him gone because he wants 2 million or doesn't hit and be funny like Kostin? Lmfao

Hilarious how fans can give Kostin 2 million but not McLeod

 

[YakDavid]

I don't ever want to lose McLeod. I don't know how fans don't see how good he can be and how good he already is. This is a potential 2nd line centre we have developed who is already decent as a 3rd line Centre AND has already proven he is good in the Playoffs. Oiler fans want him gone because he wants 2 million or doesn't hit and be funny like Kostin? Lmfao

Hilarious how fans can give Kostin 2 million but not McLeod

Add in McLeod kills penalties. Also gets power play time. You would think if Kostin was generating offence he would get some time as well.

McLeod is a much more complete player. Will be a great 3rd line Center with the ability to play the wing on the 2nd or 3rd.

Kostin is a more physical player but a winger and doesn’t kill penalties.

Not really comparable other then points.

 

[duul]

Add in McLeod kills penalties. Also gets power play time. You would think if Kostin was generating offence he would get some time as well.

McLeod is a much more complete player. Will be a great 3rd line Center with the ability to play the wing on the 2nd or 3rd.

Kostin is a more physical player but a winger and doesn’t kill penalties.

Not really comparable other then points.

Have you happened to notice Kostin and Mcleod had the same games played and same points essentially? Mcleod is on PP#2 because it gets 10 seconds a game and plays centre...what a weird point to bring up.

 

[McShogun99]

Kinda off topic but change of pace
What team do u think will regress the most in points this year?
I’m going with Bruins. I realize they had a big year but I think they regress big time

I think they miss the playoffs. Losing Bergeron, Krejki and Hall while replacing them with nothing won’t help them much.

 

[brentashton]

I don't ever want to lose McLeod. I don't know how fans don't see how good he can be and how good he already is. This is a potential 2nd line centre we have developed who is already decent as a 3rd line Centre AND has already proven he is good in the Playoffs. Oiler fans want him gone because he wants 2 million or doesn't hit and be funny like Kostin? Lmfao

Hilarious how fans can give Kostin 2 million but not McLeod

IDGAF if he made fans and team mates laugh. That’s not even a part of the discussion. Big picture is that the team doesn’t need a 2nd line Center right now, they have a pretty good one I think and are needing to address current needs in a win-now window.

In the here and now, Kostin produced the same points with less ice time and playing with less accomplished players and he also plays in a more gritty manner that is needed on this club and into the play offs. Unfortunately, he became the victim to Woodshafts obstinence and handling of his ice time.

He moved on, is making market value elsewhere and we move ahead with McLeod. To me I just prefer Kostin‘s overall skill set to Mcleod‘s if it’s an either or thing (and seems like it was) and McLeod should valued/paid less than Kostin. On or before August 4th we will find out. And if they haven’t won a cup in a few years, I guess the club has a second line center to rebuild around since he’s so valuable.

 

[jeg]

Kinda off topic but change of pace
What team do u think will regress the most in points this year?
I’m going with Bruins. I realize they had a big year but I think they regress big time

Briuns will crumble for sure they really are on the edge of a rebuild
I also believe WPG will wash out and be major sellers at the TDL
same with Washington, I'm sure they were trying to hold it together for OVI but they are over due

On the Flip side i think we see a rise from NYI, Buff and St.L

 

[YakDavid]

Have you happened to notice Kostin and Mcleod had the same games played and same points essentially? Mcleod is on PP#2 because it gets 10 seconds a game and plays centre...what a weird point to bring up.

56 seconds. Add in time then the difference between McLeod and Kostin is 1:38 minutes per a game.

Playing Center is kinda important don’t you think?

 

[duul]

56 seconds. Add in time then the difference between McLeod and Kostin is 1:38 minutes per a game.

Playing Center is kinda important don’t you think?

Of course playing center is important brother. It's the most important forward position we can agree on that. I'm still taking Machessault over Derek Ryan though.

Point being that we are discussing the capability of two players, and in our current club situation I don't think Mcleod is necessary. This coming year we are going to be running multiple rookies at forward anyway, it's time to put RNH back to center and allow rookies to develop on the wing. This is going to be a big year for RNH to step up and play a more mature role and help these young guys out. My strategy will be to sprinkle the rookies out on the wings. Let me assume we kept Kostin instead of Mcleod for a moment.

Kane-McDavid-Brown
Holloway-Draisaitl-Hyman
Kostin-RNH-Bourgault
Foegele-Ryan-Janmark

Would have been a lot more comfortable for me anyway. Allows us to finally run four lines. Any of the wingers can be swapped around depending on who's struggling or not. Our superstars get to play a bit less through the season this way.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

Briuns will crumble for sure they really are on the edge of a rebuild
I also believe WPG will wash out and be major sellers at the TDL
same with Washington, I'm sure they were trying to hold it together for OVI but they are over due

On the Flip side i think we see a rise from NYI, Buff and St.L

Boston should do a quick retool on the fly. Pasta and McAvoy should each have a lot of good years left in them. Boston has no issue attracting free agent talent.

I agree with Sabres and Blues, I'd say Sens over Isles though. Isles are interesting. Elite goaltending, strong defense, but thats a scary-bad offense. Horvat&Barzal are dangerous up front, but is that even a top 10 duo in the league? They'll be relying on a lot of 2-1 wins to make it.

Of course playing center is important brother. It's the most important forward position we can agree on that. I'm still taking Machessault over Derek Ryan though.

Point being that we are discussing the capability of two players, and in our current club situation I don't think Mcleod is necessary. This coming year we are going to be running multiple rookies at forward anyway, it's time to put RNH back to center and allow rookies to develop on the wing. This is going to be a big year for RNH to step up and play a more mature role and help these young guys out. My strategy will be to sprinkle the rookies out on the wings. Let me assume we kept Kostin instead of Mcleod for a moment.

Kane-McDavid-Brown
Holloway-Draisaitl-Hyman
Kostin-RNH-Bourgault
Foegele-Ryan-Janmark

Would have been a lot more comfortable for me anyway. Allows us to finally run four lines. Any of the wingers can be swapped around depending on who's struggling or not. Our superstars get to play a bit less through the season this way.

You have to be kidding with that comparison...