Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Lavoie Vs. Pederson Vs. Sutter Vs. Gagner Vs. Caggiula

[mkatcherin00]

Aren't physicals tomorrow?

 

[KCC]

Aren't physicals tomorrow?

Most teams start tmrw or Thursday, don’t know what day edm’s is though. I assume tmrw.

 

[CupofOil]

Can't really say that Brown and Kulak deserve to be on a list of some kind of amazing finds.

Kane dropped in our lap because the NHL is stupid and most teams believed the bs from his wife. Credit to Holland for seeing through that and realizing Kane is actually a decent man. We overpaid for Hyman to get him. The trouble part of that contract comes in later years as most players slow down and are less effective at older age. Ekholm solid get.

But this is a team in win now mode loading for SC. Its disappointing that due to the Nurse, Campbell etc contracts that we do not have the money to even make a splash of any sort.

What? You need to elaborate on this.

Hyman has been an incredible bargain his first 2 years here.
Even if he declines to a high end 3rd liner in the last few years of the contract, $5.5m will be fair market value for that type of player assuming the cap is quite a bit higher which, barring any more pandemics, it should be with all the TV revenue kicking in and the escrow debt is fully paid off.

Edit: I see you did elaborate. The last few years might be problematic but in the true win now window which is the next 3-4 years, his contract is a real asset.

 

[CupofOil]

Brown is a player that didn't even play all of last season due to serious injury. We don't even know what we have. I sure don't consider him some kind of bigtime addition. the guy has lol 90 career goals through a long career.

A guy with a career high of 20 goals is our sure shot great topsix player? lol

You know who had a career high of 21 goals before signing here when lots of folks were saying that the Oilers signed an, at best, 3rd liner because they were stat watching? Zach Hyman

In fact, if you look at Brown and Hyman's career trajectories, it's fairly similar....

From their first full year on, and both broke in at 22 and 23 years old respectively after a long college career...

Hyman
82 games - 10 goals, 28 points
82 games - 15 goals, 40 points
71 games - 21 goals, 41 points
51 games - 16 goals, 37 points
43 games - 15 goals, 33 points

Brown
82 games - 10 goals, 36 points
82 games - 14 goals, 28 points
82 games - 8 goals, 29 points
71 games - 16 goals, 43 points
56 games - 21 goals, 35 points
64 games - 10 goals, 39 points

Keep in mind also that Hyman played with the elites more in his Toronto tenure while, yes, Brown did get a bigger minute bump in Ottawa and Hyman didn't have as significant injury as Brown had the year before his Oiler signing but Hyman did have a list of nagging injuries that year to the point of Leafs fans calling him injury prone.
Now, Brown's numbers aren't quite as good as Hyman's was in his last year especially and there was an upward trajectory with Hyman but I wouldn't discount Brown being a solid top 6 contributor, he has it in him.
I'll also say that you'll love him the moment you watch him play much like Hyman. I know the type of player you like and Brown is it, has a lot of that DNA from the Championship Kings teams that you loved. Give it a chance.

 

[CupofOil]

The price of food has skyrocketed, the cost of goods have skyrocketed, the cost of rent has sky rocketed, the wages have remained mainly the same except for unionized workers that have striked for the most part.

Yep, 100% especially here in New York.

I make a decent living (not unionized) so I have bit of a buffer financially but the raise isn't matching the inflation (the price of grocery shopping alone has spiked significantly over the last few years) and the real estate market for buyers is frighteningly inflated especially closer to the city.

 

[FlameChampion]

Can't really say that Brown and Kulak deserve to be on a list of some kind of amazing finds.

Kane dropped in our lap because the NHL is stupid and most teams believed the bs from his wife. Credit to Holland for seeing through that and realizing Kane is actually a decent man. We overpaid for Hyman to get him. The trouble part of that contract comes in later years as most players slow down and are less effective at older age. Ekholm solid get.

But this is a team in win now mode loading for SC. Its disappointing that due to the Nurse, Campbell etc contracts that we do not have the money to even make a splash of any sort.

I mean I was/am happy when Hyman, Kulak, Brown, Kane etc came here. But lets be honest, none of these guys really gave the Oilers any type of a discount to play here. Oilers paid market value for these guys.

Was anyone willing to sign Hyman for more than 5.5m AAV? Hyman scored 15-21 goals in Toronto. Not sure thats a 5.5m AAV player. Now Hyman I would say has paid off and then some since coming here. Fits in great with the team. No complaints. Well worth his contract. But he was paid fair and at market value.

Kane at 5.125m. Once again I think a pretty fair deal. Oilers took a chance on him. The Oilers even let him test the market, so I dont think there were much better offers out there. I kind of forget now, but didnt SJ have to pay the remainder of the difference of the contract? Would of been nice to get Kane for a bit less. SJ got out of that decision to break his contract pretty easily.

Campbell at 5m. Once again. We paid him the market value. Was anyone paying him over 5m a year? This one unfortunately hasnt worked out for us so far. Hopefully he bounces back. But it could be a wrench in our cup chances.

Brown at 4m. Yes, I realize his cap hit is 775k. But hes getting paid 4m as long as he plays 10 games. I am happy we signed him. I think hes going to work out. But once again were paying a pretty fair price for him. If his deal was performance driven it would be one thing, but hes essentially getting paid 4m a year to play here. 4m for a year gets you a pretty good player.

Kulak at 2.75. Nurse at 9.25m. etc Majority of guys arent taking discounts to play here. Nugent Hopkins is about the only one you could argue has taken discount (recently). I like the Team for the most part. I'm not complaining but l think its a fair statement, that the Oilers have paid market value for the vast majority of their players.

I hear insiders like Seravalli say that Edmonton is becoming a desired destination for players and free agents. I think thats one of the more disappointing things about the offseason for me. I keep expecting someone to sign a sweetheart deal to play here for a chance to win a cup. Guess it could happen with Patrick Kane. But so far it hasnt happened.

 

[fancy dan]

examples of other "sweetheart deals" for other teams in the NHL ?

 

[Drivesaitl]

You know who had a career high of 21 goals before signing here when lots of folks were saying that the Oilers signed an, at best, 3rd liner because they were stat watching? Zach Hyman

In fact, if you look at Brown and Hyman's career trajectories, it's fairly similar....

From their first full year on, and both broke in at 22 and 23 years old respectively after a long college career...

Hyman
82 games - 10 goals, 28 points
82 games - 15 goals, 40 points
71 games - 21 goals, 41 points
51 games - 16 goals, 37 points
43 games - 15 goals, 33 points

Brown
82 games - 10 goals, 36 points
82 games - 14 goals, 28 points
82 games - 8 goals, 29 points
71 games - 16 goals, 43 points
56 games - 21 goals, 35 points
64 games - 10 goals, 39 points

Keep in mind also that Hyman played with the elites more in his Toronto tenure while, yes, Brown did get a bigger minute bump in Ottawa and Hyman didn't have as significant injury as Brown had the year before his Oiler signing but Hyman did have a list of nagging injuries that year to the point of Leafs fans calling him injury prone.
Now, Brown's numbers aren't quite as good as Hyman's was in his last year especially and there was an upward trajectory with Hyman but I wouldn't discount Brown being a solid top 6 contributor, he has it in him.
I'll also say that you'll love him the moment you watch him play much like Hyman. I know the type of player you like and Brown is it, has a lot of that DNA from the Championship Kings teams that you loved. Give it a chance.

Thanks for this again. Doesn't it feel like we've been waiting for this season forever? lol this offseason has been like time stands still. Just want to see some hockey and see what happens.

ftr my concerns aren't isolated. The Oilers are becoming a very old team in what is a young mans game increasingly. This may not show up in regular season but it could in playoffs. its ok here and there to replace young players with old players but the Oilers have done this to such a degree were among the half dozen older teams in league, or will be there quickly. Even our bottomsix, which typically benefits from energy players is getting older. As much as I like guys like Sam Gagner, Ryan, Janmark we seem to have a lot of age. Getting rid of Bjugstad and Kostin is removing meat from our bottomsix. McLeod plays real soft hockey. Foegele disengaged. Its again the bottomsix that worries me a lot as well as what the entire team mix is.

In the playoffs opponents will be looking to push us around and take liberties. Vegas did basically that.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Thanks for this again. Doesn't it feel like we've been waiting for this season forever? lol this offseason has been like time stands still. Just want to see some hockey and see what happens.

ftr my concerns aren't isolated. The Oilers are becoming a very old team in what is a young mans game increasingly. This may not show up in regular season but it could in playoffs. its ok here and there to replace young players with old players but the Oilers have done this to such a degree were among the half dozen older teams in league, or will be there quickly. Even our bottomsix, which typically benefits from energy players is getting older. As much as I like guys like Sam Gagner, Ryan, Janmark we seem to have a lot of age. Getting rid of Bjugstad and Kostin is removing meat from our bottomsix. McLeod plays real soft hockey. Foegele disengaged. Its again the bottomsix that worries me a lot as well as what the entire team mix is.

In the playoffs opponents will be looking to push us around and take liberties. Vegas did basically that.

Paying those two $4+M on the cap seems like a very poor use of resources.

You're concerned the Oilers are getting old? But you want $2.1M of 31 year Bjugstad back because tall?

Yeah you're just sort saying stuff to see yourself type Replacement. The team isn't perfect, but it's absolutely a Cup contending team.

 

[Paralyzer]

I love how we are still bickering about the Roster still. Training camp starts tomorrow. Let's see who wants to compete and be in the Opening Night Roster. I think people here are easily pushing off guys like Desharnais, McLeod, Lavoie, Holloway, etc. that they cannot get better. Let's see what they can do in Training Camp, and if they play lights out, then I wonder how many will shut up about the 'HUGE holes' we have in our roster?

 

[Anarchism]

Paying those two $4+M on the cap seems like a very poor use of resources.

You're concerned the Oilers are getting old? But you want $2.1M of 31 year Bjugstad back because tall?

Yeah you're just sort saying stuff to see yourself type Replacement. The team isn't perfect, but it's absolutely a Cup contending team.

Fogs--Mcleod--Ryan
Hollow--Someone--Janmark/Gags

That is pretty soft. Vegas is not.
Cup contender to me means top 4 for sure--are we that? There is a pretty good argument were not top 4.

 

[Anarchism]

I love how we are still bickering about the Roster still. Training camp starts tomorrow. Let's see who wants to compete and be in the Opening Night Roster. I think people here are easily pushing off guys like Desharnais, McLeod, Lavoie, Holloway, etc. that they cannot get better. Let's see what they can do in Training Camp, and if they play lights out, then I wonder how many will shut up about the 'HUGE holes' we have in our roster?

Most people know traning camp provides little in judging of new or newer recruits. It provides management a chance to see these guys at NHL speed and defensive systems. Those that are not ready in camp certainly aren't ready for the season. But those that make the cut certainly cant be said to be NHL ready.
Holland is doing as you suggest....let look, lets give them 20 or 30 games and see if they can swim/improve.

Soup -- head case
Skinner -- more book on him will need to adapt.
Mcleod -- can't clear the slot. Can't battle.
Desi -- can be beat by speed mostly outside.
Broberg -- we really don't know.
Holloway -- good bet but likely in and out in the first half.
Brown is one of my kind of guys -- lets hope his leg holds up. Regardless middle sixer not likely to be able to skate long term with McDavid but will occasionally. sTill have to blend him in.
Ceci -- good bet to improve especially with less minutes.

7/8 places-- lets wait and see on 7--8 places.

Maybe fix a couple now and then wait. Sure some will pan out. Reduce the risk?
This summer was filled with opportunity.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Incredible work by the nucks here

 

[FlameChampion]

Incredible work by the nucks here

Why incredible?

Trade makes sense for both teams though. Hughes keeps on piling up the picks.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Why incredible?

Trade makes sense for both teams though. Hughes keeps on piling up the picks.

The nucks are trying to be competitive, traded away a forward who would help them for a goalie they don't need and gave up a pick.

 

[Anarchism]

The nucks are trying to be competitive, traded away a forward who would help them for a goalie they don't need and gave up a pick.

Trader Joe just doesn't know when to stop.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

The nucks are trying to be competitive, traded away a forward who would help them for a goalie they don't need and gave up a pick.

I actually thought that was a good trade for them. Dropping a $3.25 cap hit player coming off an injury for a solid NHL proven back-up behind their elite tender coming back from injury.

 

[Anarchism]

I actually thought that was a good trade for them. Dropping a $3.25 cap hit player coming off an injury for a solid NHL proven back-up behind their elite tender coming back from injury.

Hopefully Soucy and Cole and Hronek can provide some stability in front of him. Casey needs a strong D. He is a determined guy maybe not a super athlete but determined.
Though stylistically different than Spencer Martin they have both performed well with good D in front of them and have failed with poor D in front of them.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Hopefully Soucy and Cole and Hronek can provide some stability in front of him. Casey needs a strong D. He is a determined guy maybe not a super athlete but determined.
Though stylistically different than Spencer Martin they have both performed well with good D in front of them and have failed with poor D in front of them.

Hopefully not…

 

[Soundwave]

But he ran Edmonton, and advised St Louis so well

"The trade is Tim Stutzle for Philip Broberg. 1 for 1."

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Most people know traning camp provides little in judging of new or newer recruits. It provides management a chance to see these guys at NHL speed and defensive systems. Those that are not ready in camp certainly aren't ready for the season. But those that make the cut certainly cant be said to be NHL ready.
Holland is doing as you suggest....let look, lets give them 20 or 30 games and see if they can swim/improve.

Soup -- head case
Skinner -- more book on him will need to adapt.
Mcleod -- can't clear the slot. Can't battle.
Desi -- can be beat by speed mostly outside.
Broberg -- we really don't know.
Holloway -- good bet but likely in and out in the first half.
Brown is one of my kind of guys -- lets hope his leg holds up. Regardless middle sixer not likely to be able to skate long term with McDavid but will occasionally. sTill have to blend him in.
Ceci -- good bet to improve especially with less minutes.

7/8 places-- lets wait and see on 7--8 places.

Maybe fix a couple now and then wait. Sure some will pan out. Reduce the risk?
This summer was filled with opportunity.

A lot of this stuff is in your head. This team realistically has one glaring need and that is an upgrade on the right side in the top 4.

You’re talking about 7 or 8 positions that need to be upgraded and that’s completely ludacris. That’s almost half the roster lmao, do you know how ridiculous it is to suggest changing out 7 or 8 guys in less then a calendar year?

 

[Anarchism]

A lot of this stuff is in your head. This team realistically has one glaring need and that is an upgrade on the right side in the top 4.

You’re talking about 7 or 8 positions that need to be upgraded and that’s completely ludacris. That’s almost half the roster lmao, do you know how ridiculous it is to suggest changing out 7 or 8 guys in less then a calendar year?

Actually no that not what im saying at all Supreme.

Each player and each position is a decision tree. Risk management.
Yes some of those players are good bets to improve and or take the next step.
But to gamble that even half 4 guys will substantially improve over the next 6 months is optimistic.
We don't need or expect all 8 to make it.

All I am saying is pick 2 spots and reduce our risk this past summer. Lots of opportunity.

Holland, fabulous trader that he is ....he is gambling or saying lets take a look at what we got before we make a big move and lets sign 3 PTOs ...maybe we can reduce the risk a bit that ways.
He will rely on the trade deadline to pick up a couple of players likely. This is risky of course ...10 other teams are out there at that time and fitting two or more players in has mostly resulted in failure.
You realize signing Erne to a PTO recognizes a certain lack in our team as well right?

 

[Drivesaitl]

What? You need to elaborate on this.

Hyman has been an incredible bargain his first 2 years here.
Even if he declines to a high end 3rd liner in the last few years of the contract, $5.5m will be fair market value for that type of player assuming the cap is quite a bit higher which, barring any more pandemics, it should be with all the TV revenue kicking in and the escrow debt is fully paid off.

Edit: I see you did elaborate. The last few years might be problematic but in the true win now window which is the next 3-4 years, his contract is a real asset.

At the point of acquisition it was considered overpay. Also concidering the contract is 7yrs long we're going to be seeing both good and bad years in that contract unless Hyman is a medical marvel.

More the point for the game Hyman has to be playing, chopping, struggling to the net, forcing the net, its the Ryan Smyth game and that guy was made out of amazing stuff and still suffered horrendous injury doing it. The path to the net is the hardest in hockey, its harder than being a D, Hyman is occupying the position of being hammered around the net.

Hyman has been super for us. But I'm not certain we get what have for remainder of contract. he wasn't the same in playoffs either.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Why incredible?

Trade makes sense for both teams though. Hughes keeps on piling up the picks.

Habs must be hoping Pearson is another 70's line kid Tyler Toffoli type. They won't be finding that.

Tanner Pearson gets injured tons, and has lost the step he once had.

Plus he's old and tons of mileage on this one. its why you kick tires and check odometer.

 

[Anarchism]

At the point of acquisition it was considered overpay. Also concidering the contract is 7yrs long we're going to be seeing both good and bad years in that contract unless Hyman is a medical marvel.

More the point for the game Hyman has to be playing, chopping, struggling to the net, forcing the net, its the Ryan Smyth game and that guy was made out of amazing stuff and still suffered horrendous injury doing it. The path to the net is the hardest in hockey, its harder than being a D, Hyman is occupying the position of being hammered around the net.

Hyman has been super for us. But I'm not certain we get what have for remainder of contract. he wasn't the same in playoffs either.

Knees Hyman certainly might be a buy now pay later kind of guy but I think at the time its a gamble i would have taken and even if he can cover for the next couple of years (Brown likely pulls some attention from him) he was more than work the contract.