Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Lavoie Vs. Pederson Vs. Sutter Vs. Gagner Vs. Caggiula

[Drivesaitl]

Knees Hyman certainly might be a buy now pay later kind of guy but I think at the time its a gamble i would have taken and even if he can cover for the next couple of years (Brown likely pulls some attention from him) he was more than work the contract.

Yeah. Hyman has had to be the everready bunny around the net so much in his time here and sure he's struck gold there but I've seen the toll that puts on players. you need a mix of players willing to crash the net. I think Holloway too needs to be doing more of that. Hopefully Brown can fill some of what Hyman does. We've kind of been riding Hyman hard and its difficult to play with McDrai at that kind of pace and some shifts.

 

[Anarchism]

A lot of this stuff is in your head. This team realistically has one glaring need and that is an upgrade on the right side in the top 4.

You’re talking about 7 or 8 positions that need to be upgraded and that’s completely ludacris. That’s almost half the roster lmao, do you know how ridiculous it is to suggest changing out 7 or 8 guys in less then a calendar year?

We have one glaring need?
So in the Vegas series you didn't see suspect goaltending, suspect/overwhelmed right side D, a bottom 6 that Vegas put there foot on thus enabling them to neutralize our wings?
You didn't see our star players effectively playing the grit/aggressiveness angle till either they got hurt or chucked?
We gave them a run for their money but it was our stars....McD and Drais looked like vampires at the end.
You know maybe im wrong and we lost that series 4 games to 2 by chance and everything is just peachy.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

We have one glaring need?
So in the Vegas series you didn't see suspect goaltending, suspect/overwhelmed right side D, a bottom 6 that Vegas put there foot on thus enabling them to neutralize our wings?
You didn't see our star players effectively playing the grit/aggressiveness angle till either they got hurt or chucked?
We gave them a run for their money but it was our stars....McD and Drais looked like vampires at the end.
You know maybe im wrong and we lost that series 4 games to 2 by chance and everything is just peachy.

Yah we did see suspect goaltending until he got hurt and their 3rd string came in and played like Patrick Roy.

 

[Anarchism]

Yah we did see suspect goaltending until he got hurt and their 3rd string came in and played like Patrick Roy.

They still have Adin....why wont the same strategy from them beat us again?

Who has the history of upgrading effectively at necessary times Vegas or us? In total?
Stone will be healthy again for the playoffs and they will use that money.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

They still have Adin....why wont the same strategy from them beat us again?

Because he’s not a superstar goalie. He’s a goalie that got hot. (Hopefully)

 

[Anarchism]

Because he’s not a superstar goalie. He’s a goalie that got hot. (Hopefully)

HAHAHAHA. Smart gamble.
What did that series teach us.
That you cant rely on two lines, that u cant rely on 3 D, that you need at least average tending.

Well Brown helps ....quite alot on the right side. BUT if your the opposing GM/coach what would your game plan be?

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

HAHAHAHA. Smart gamble.
What did that series teach us.
That you cant rely on two lines, that u cant rely on 3 D, that you need at least average tending.

Well Brown helps ....quite alot on the right side. BUT if you’re the opposing GM what would your game plan be?

 

[SupremeTeam16]

We have one glaring need?
So in the Vegas series you didn't see suspect goaltending, suspect/overwhelmed right side D, a bottom 6 that Vegas put there foot on thus enabling them to neutralize our wings?
You didn't see our star players effectively playing the grit/aggressiveness angle till either they got hurt or chucked?
We gave them a run for their money but it was our stars....McD and Drais looked like vampires at the end.
You know maybe im wrong and we lost that series 4 games to 2 by chance and everything is just peachy.

That series was lost as a result of Vegas implementing a game plan based on attacking areas the Oilers struggled with earlier in the year and a young goalie that couldn’t hang in there like he had done during the season under that pressure. That and the Eichel/Marchesaault line having a very strong series was the other factor. In fact the guy who can’t clear the slot, can’t battle, and isn’t 3C material Ryan McLeod, was the only one who had strong results against that line.

It was a very close series that came down to coaching and a tale of two young goalies posting polar opposite results.

 

[Drivesaitl]

That series was lost as a result of Vegas implementing a game plan based on attacking areas the Oilers struggled with earlier in the year and a young goalie that couldn’t hang in there like he had done during the season under that pressure. That and the Eichel/Marchesaault line having a very strong series was the other factor. In fact the guy who can’t clear the slot, can’t battle, and isn’t 3C material Ryan McLeod, was the only one who had strong results against that line.

It was a very close series that came down to coaching and a tale of two young goalies posting polar opposite results.

We were also vastly outcoached in the series and with Marshassault even being decent enough to tell us exactly what our scheme shortpinnings were.

I guess we can keep saying these are just one off instances but in two consecutive seasons while facing stiff opposition our collective record is 2-8 these last two playoffs.

Knights took biscuits to our net repeatedly and made plays around the net because that was going to be our undoing.

Our line matching was for shit in that round. No adjustments to what lines were being roasted, what goalie was being roasted, and failure to utilize some players that could have helped.

 

[PULSATING]

Babcock being a creepy horrible person reminded me of that HFOil poster who kept beating his drum even into Woodys tenure.

We got some bright bulbs around here

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Thanks for this again. Doesn't it feel like we've been waiting for this season forever? lol this offseason has been like time stands still. Just want to see some hockey and see what happens.

ftr my concerns aren't isolated. The Oilers are becoming a very old team in what is a young mans game increasingly. This may not show up in regular season but it could in playoffs. its ok here and there to replace young players with old players but the Oilers have done this to such a degree were among the half dozen older teams in league, or will be there quickly. Even our bottomsix, which typically benefits from energy players is getting older. As much as I like guys like Sam Gagner, Ryan, Janmark we seem to have a lot of age. Getting rid of Bjugstad and Kostin is removing meat from our bottomsix. McLeod plays real soft hockey. Foegele disengaged. Its again the bottomsix that worries me a lot as well as what the entire team mix is.

In the playoffs opponents will be looking to push us around and take liberties. Vegas did basically that.

IMO Brown sounds like a Hyman type of a player. + skater with a dogged work ethic. If he can stay healthy he is a net positive for sure. The issue is the cap carry over for next season.

We are older, but that also means less rookie mistakes and a more even keeled roster. Getting softer however is my concern as well.

Yep, 100% especially here in New York.

I make a decent living (not unionized) so I have bit of a buffer financially but the raise isn't matching the inflation (the price of grocery shopping alone has spiked significantly over the last few years) and the real estate market for buyers is frighteningly inflated especially closer to the city.

Well you are close to as far away in the US as you can get from where I live and it sounds like similar issues there.

 

[SK13]

HAHAHAHA. Smart gamble.
What did that series teach us.
That you cant rely on two lines, that u cant rely on 3 D, that you need at least average tending.

Well Brown helps ....quite alot on the right side. BUT if your the opposing GM/coach what would your game plan be?

That 96 million dollar rosters are hard to beat when you're stuck at 83 million dollars?

No team in the league leaned harder on their top 4/5 forwards, regular season or playoffs, than the Stanley Cup runner up in Florida.

Which goes to show that depth *is* important, but it's secondary to top end talent. A team entirely comprised of good-but-not-great players will wind up like the Seattle Kraken. For a team with top end talent to afford depth, they need to be at the right place and right time. With 6 years of LTIR, an expensive top end, dead money from a bygone management group and a pandemic induced flat cap -- they've not been in that position until now.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

At the point of acquisition it was considered overpay. Also concidering the contract is 7yrs long we're going to be seeing both good and bad years in that contract unless Hyman is a medical marvel.

More the point for the game Hyman has to be playing, chopping, struggling to the net, forcing the net, its the Ryan Smyth game and that guy was made out of amazing stuff and still suffered horrendous injury doing it. The path to the net is the hardest in hockey, its harder than being a D, Hyman is occupying the position of being hammered around the net.

Hyman has been super for us. But I'm not certain we get what have for remainder of contract. he wasn't the same in playoffs either.

Hyman was certainly secured at market price and love me longtime term. That was going to be a requirement to get this player out of his hometown. However he was an absolute must-have player type on a pretty soft team and one with minimal quality depth. Hyman and Kane gave this team some high work rate, aggressive hammer types to move away from a somewhat passive, reactive nail team persona.

His deal was alway going to be framed around the team's need to build out a legitimate Cup contender team during the McDavid Draisaitl prime years and contracts. Hyman's obliterated his career totals in his first two years as an Oiler. This front end success (and team) is well above the contract current value. His production and game might fall off in latter contract years. But right now he's delivered well beyond expectation for the money. There's a reasonable chance looking back at the contract's full term that Hyman will have delivered solid value for money.

Holland's been pretty upfront with his contract signings. I haven't seen any value deals other than Barrie's first deal, Nugent Hopkins, and a rehabilitation project with Kane. If you can't build a strong internal talent pipeline it is an expensive option to bring free agent talent to Edmonton.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Paying those two $4+M on the cap seems like a very poor use of resources.

You're concerned the Oilers are getting old? But you want $2.1M of 31 year Bjugstad back because tall?

Yeah you're just sort saying stuff to see yourself type Replacement. The team isn't perfect, but it's absolutely a Cup contending team.

I like the way you edit your post just to get a dig in later after a post has already been viewed. It wasn't what you had first stated. Nice..

The bolded was your original reply.

Any team with the two best players on the planet signed up longterm should be a contending team. Any such team should've been much farther along the road than they have been.

Anything else Jimmi?

 

[SupremeTeam16]

We were also vastly outcoached in the series and with Marshassault even being decent enough to tell us exactly what our scheme shortpinnings were.

I guess we can keep saying these are just one off instances but in two consecutive seasons while facing stiff opposition our collective record is 2-8 these last two playoffs.

Knights took biscuits to our net repeatedly and made plays around the net because that was going to be our undoing.

Our line matching was for shit in that round. No adjustments to what lines were being roasted, what goalie was being roasted, and failure to utilize some players that could have helped.

I agree that Woodcroft got a class in game planning for opponents and he was unable to make the adjustments and get the guys on track.

It’ll be interesting to see if they learned from this Vegas series. They’ve been saying the right things but it’s all just talking. I’d like to see simplified, more traditional defensive schemes that don’t allow for as much confusion and where we can better protect the net front and slot as a unit. More support from the C and W and most importantly in our own zone prioritizing strong structure over generating chances on odd man rushes.

We really improved defensively down the stretch last year but reverted into the early season Oilers as soon as Vegas worked us on our weaknesses.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I agree that Woodcroft got a class in game planning for opponents and he was unable to make the adjustments and get the guys on track.

It’ll be interesting to see if they learned from this Vegas series. They’ve been saying the right things but it’s all just talking. I’d like to see simplified, more traditional defensive schemes that don’t allow for as much confusion and where we can better protect the net front and slot as a unit. More support from the C and W and most importantly in our own zone prioritizing strong structure over generating chances on odd man rushes.

We really improved defensively down the stretch last year but reverted into the early season Oilers as soon as Vegas worked us on our weaknesses.

Thanks for the reply. This is why a week ago I highlighted the playoff record in an exchange with you. Coaching matchups and the results are seen mostly in playoffs. The reason for this is that teams will specifically scheme and adjust as you know during playoffs and due to 7 game series.

Coaches and their acuity and adjustments, it doesn't really get revealed or exploited as much in regular season as teams can't specifically commit time to scheming each opponent in a 32 team NHL. Thus coaching strengths, adjustment strengths, these are revealed in playoffs.

To this point what I've learned is Woody and Manson have trouble making adjustments in real time and are even reticent to do so. Even Woodys "we win as a team and loss as a team" repeated reply to questions around starting goalies and usage of players was disappointing. Woody was asked the pointed question and gave standard reply. The team on the ice lost the series. yes. But one of the worst matchups in the series was coaching. Woody and Manson are part of that team and need to be better, in the playoffs, when it counts.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

I like the way you edit your post just to get a dig in later after a post has already been viewed. It wasn't what you had first stated. Nice..

The bolded was your original reply.

Any team with the two best players on the planet signed up longterm should be a contending team. Any such team should've been much farther along the road than they have been.

Anything else Jimmi?

You've never added to your posts when you wanted to expand on your thoughts more? I do it all the time, what's the problem?

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yep, 100% especially here in New York.

I make a decent living (not unionized) so I have bit of a buffer financially but the raise isn't matching the inflation (the price of grocery shopping alone has spiked significantly over the last few years) and the real estate market for buyers is frighteningly inflated especially closer to the city.

You must make a decent coin to be able to live in NY. I mean relatively speaking. Are you Manhattan or in the Burroughs? I thought you said Manhattan during pandemic or at least you had to travel through that during pandemic. I remember some of the convos we had during that difficult time.

The trouble with a lot of the most utilized economic gauges is they don't seem to track true inflation and consumer cost very well. I mean costs can double and you'll see some indicator saying there was like 6% inflation...

The cost of living increases are unprecedented, and the most seen since they started keeping track in the 50's.

 

[Drivesaitl]

You've never added to your posts when you wanted to expand on your thoughts more? I do it all the time, what's the problem?

I edit posts. I don't do that just to get a rub in at a poster after the fact. If I edit its to make my post more clear. or even to remove a comment at times if I see it as inappropriate. The problem is for instance Replacement hasn't posted for a decade but Jimmi, and posters like him taking lifelong umbrage, will mention it for the next 50yrs.

I mean is there any statute of limits on taking numbers? Asking for a friend.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Thanks for the reply. This is why a week ago I highlighted the playoff record in an exchange with you. Coaching matchups and the results are seen mostly in playoffs. The reason for this is that teams will specifically scheme and adjust as you know during playoffs and due to 7 game series.

Coaches and their acuity and adjustments, it doesn't really get revealed or exploited as much in regular season as teams can't specifically commit time to scheming each opponent in a 32 team NHL. Thus coaching strengths, adjustment strengths, these are revealed in playoffs.

To this point what I've learned is Woody and Manson have trouble making adjustments in real time and are even reticent to do so. Even Woodys "we win as a team and loss as a team" repeated reply to questions around starting goalies and usage of players was disappointing. Woody was asked the pointed question and gave standard reply. The team on the ice lost the series. yes. But one of the worst matchups in the series was coaching. Woody and Manson are part of that team and need to be better, in the playoffs, when it counts.

Well coaches, like players, can learn and grow. This is Woodcroft’s third season coming up, he’s had terrific regular season success, some playoff success and now some lessons taught and we’ll see if they learned.

I’m expecting improved defensive structure and that will make it easier on our blue line and in turn, our goalies.

 

[OfCorsiDid]

Kostin has one of the best shots this club has seen in recent years, he can absolutely wire it along with the best in the league. His SH% being high should be a surprise to no-one. Go watch his goals they're absolutely snipes with more power on them than most of our guys can shoot it. Him and Foegele can both absolutely rip the puck.

My darkhorse to make the club in that RW spot is Bourgault.

Go look at Kostin's first goal for us against Minnesota, or the goals against L.A.

Here's one you might not have seen, here's his first goal for the Blues. There are a handful of players who can shoot the puck like this in the league. Lmao. Actual thing of beauty.

No one:
Absolutely no one:

Duul:

KLIM KOSTIN

 

[jukon]

I just want to say that Klim backwards is Milk. How did I not realize that until now?

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Well coaches, like players, can learn and grow. This is Woodcroft’s third season coming up, he’s had terrific regular season success, some playoff success and now some lessons taught and we’ll see if they learned.

I’m expecting improved defensive structure and that will make it easier on our blue line and in turn, our goalies.

Anything less would be a failure IMO. That and closing out games and having a killer instinct instead of brain farting ourselves into losses.

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Sutter's and Erne's chances to get a contract just went up.