Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Lavoie Vs. Pederson Vs. Sutter Vs. Gagner Vs. Caggiula

[Mcnotloilersfan]

The only strong predictor of the future is if you have alot of data on specific areas from the past.
With regards to youth you have quite alot of data.
With regards to goalies that have the physical side but don't have the mental side i would suggest without studying it that the data is pretty scattered.
There is also the idea that there is a better book on Skinner now and he will have some improvements to work on. Skinner has shown in The Ahl that he was good at working his game. But his first half may be up and down. This is normal in goalie development.
Ekholm was one of the two D we needed but now teams KNOW to pressure our right side. Ceci is a good bet to improve especially if we can find a way to reduce his minutes.
YOU can bet your lunch money that pre scouting for Oilers games that GMs will have the Oilers/Vegas series on the menu.

Overall youth starts strong and sags. Optimism would be 50 percent perhaps by Christmas.
But our second half should see some things come together.

IF......IF

Mcleod plays well
One of Lavoie or Bourgault can make the jump in the first half
Holloway figures it out
Ceci bounces back strong.
One of Broberg or Desi substantially improve/break through
Skinner takes a big step forward
Campbell finds a way to keep his head out of the garbage

Then Holland will look like a bonafide genius.
But if only half of those things work we will be all over him for doing basically nothing this summer.

I'll say again, why does the work have to be limited to the summer?

We got Ekholm at the deadline. There was nobody near his ability available last summer.
We got Kane the deadline before. Only one in his range the summer before was Hyman... who we also got.

Since the summer of 21, we've added Ekholm, Kane, Hyman, Brown and Kulak. How many teams can say they've added more high end skill through free agency and trade alone?

My point is, we can't judge his body of work until we see the roster that enters the playoffs.

It makes sense asset wise to not only give a bit more time to evaluate what happens with guys like Broberg, Ceci and Campbell, but also to wait and see what better options become available at the deadline.

If this team approaches the deadline with glaring holes, and the players to fill them are available, and he fails to get it done, then I will judge for sure.

 

[FlameChampion]

I still think a major part of success this season depends on infusion of youth. If Holloway and Broberg take the next step, and one of Lavoie/Bourgault is ready for some callup time mid-season, it would be huge for this team having a deep attack.

I'm certainly feeling optimistic that this team will have a better first half of the season than last year. We didn't have Ekholm or Brown, we barely had Kane, and Campbell can't possibly be any worse than he was...right?

In a perfect world, would be nice to have Holloway and Borgault in the top 6 and have 2 of our current top 6 on third. We would have really good depth. But I agree, Holloway and Broberg taking a step moves the team up another level.

 

[FlameChampion]

I'll say again, why does the work have to be limited to the summer?

We got Ekholm at the deadline. There was nobody near his ability available last summer.
We got Kane the deadline before. Only one in his range the summer before was Hyman... who we also got.

Since the summer of 21, we've added Ekholm, Kane, Hyman, Brown and Kulak. How many teams can say they've added more high end skill through free agency and trade alone?

My point is, we can't judge his body of work until we see the roster that enters the playoffs.

It makes sense asset wise to not only give a bit more time to evaluate what happens with guys like Broberg, Ceci and Campbell, but also to wait and see what better options become available at the deadline.

If this team approaches the deadline with glaring holes, and the players to fill them are available, and he fails to get it done, then I will judge for sure.

I think with Ekholm and Brown the team should be better to start the year. I am a bit worried about Kane though. I’ll be surprised if hes the same player before the injury. Will be tough for RNH and Hyman to replicate their years but they will both be good regardless. Campbell should be better but not sure he can be trusted.

 

[Heavy Dee]

I think with Ekholm and Brown the team should be better to start the year. I am a bit worried about Kane though. I’ll be surprised if hes the same player before the injury. Will be tough for RNH and Hyman to replicate their years but they will both be good regardless. Campbell should be better but not sure he can be trusted.

RNH and Hyman don't need to replicate their season, they need to not suck in the playoffs again.

 

[Anarchism]

I'll say again, why does the work have to be limited to the summer?

We got Ekholm at the deadline. There was nobody near his ability available last summer.
We got Kane the deadline before. Only one in his range the summer before was Hyman... who we also got.

Since the summer of 21, we've added Ekholm, Kane, Hyman, Brown and Kulak. How many teams can say they've added more high end skill through free agency and trade alone?

My point is, we can't judge his body of work until we see the roster that enters the playoffs.

It makes sense asset wise to not only give a bit more time to evaluate what happens with guys like Broberg, Ceci and Campbell, but also to wait and see what better options become available at the deadline.

If this team approaches the deadline with glaring holes, and the players to fill them are available, and he fails to get it done, then I will judge for sure.

It surely doesn't need to be confined to the summer but ...
By doing basically very little Holland has decided to gamble large....if key things work out great.
But on most of it you may not know till Jan/Feb.

There is quite alot that has to go right and if it doesn't there is too much to change given one deadline.
We are not the only team that is gambling. Imagine if LA gets that really good available goaltender at the deadline and we don't. PLD will decrease Kopitar's playing time. Doughty will have more help this season and LA has developing defensive depth.
Getting the right people inseason can be challenging...cap, 20 other GMs, finding a way to fit multiple players in post deadline (rarely works--ask Toronto).

Moreover I will predict a major injury to one of Nurse or Kane this season...maybe both.
The reasons for this prediction are obvious.

 

[TB12]

Why are we still talking about a player who didn't want to play here, and used KHL threats to get his way? I'm more interested in guys who want to be here and win, not guys who are simply chasing a paycheque.

I, personally, am looking very forward to the essays we will get this year whenever “sniper” Kostin pots one for the wings.

 

[Anarchism]

I, personally, am looking very forward to the essays we will get this year whenever “sniper” Kostin pots one for the wings.

He had to go...but it is going to be fun.
Also when Kostin pastes someone.

 

[Leonardlizard]

People amazed by Bedard's shot ... I just think "almost like a young klim"

 

[Drivesaitl]

I'll say again, why does the work have to be limited to the summer?

We got Ekholm at the deadline. There was nobody near his ability available last summer.
We got Kane the deadline before. Only one in his range the summer before was Hyman... who we also got.

Since the summer of 21, we've added Ekholm, Kane, Hyman, Brown and Kulak. How many teams can say they've added more high end skill through free agency and trade alone?

My point is, we can't judge his body of work until we see the roster that enters the playoffs.

It makes sense asset wise to not only give a bit more time to evaluate what happens with guys like Broberg, Ceci and Campbell, but also to wait and see what better options become available at the deadline.

If this team approaches the deadline with glaring holes, and the players to fill them are available, and he fails to get it done, then I will judge for sure.

Can't really say that Brown and Kulak deserve to be on a list of some kind of amazing finds.

Kane dropped in our lap because the NHL is stupid and most teams believed the bs from his wife. Credit to Holland for seeing through that and realizing Kane is actually a decent man. We overpaid for Hyman to get him. The trouble part of that contract comes in later years as most players slow down and are less effective at older age. Ekholm solid get.

But this is a team in win now mode loading for SC. Its disappointing that due to the Nurse, Campbell etc contracts that we do not have the money to even make a splash of any sort.

 

[brentashton]

People amazed by Bedard's shot ... I just think "almost like a young klim"

 

[WaitingForUser]

Can't really say that Brown and Kulak deserve to be on a list of some kind of amazing finds.

Kane dropped in our lap because the NHL is stupid and most teams believed the bs from his wife. Credit to Holland for seeing through that and realizing Kane is actually a decent man. We overpaid for Hyman to get him. The trouble part of that contract comes in later years as most players slow down and are less effective at older age. Ekholm solid get.

But this is a team in win now mode loading for SC. Its disappointing that due to the Nurse, Campbell etc contracts that we do not have the money to even make a splash of any sort.

How was Hyman an overpay exactly?

 

[TheNumber4]

Watching that behind the scenes clip of how the Yamo Kostin trade went down, does not inspire confidence in me that Holland shopped the players and got the best return possible for players. Here’s the clip

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

www.youtube.com

 

[Drivesaitl]

How was Hyman an overpay exactly?

Due to length primarily. By the end of the decade this is certainly going to be looking like an overpay unless one thinks Hyman is some kind of superman that will defy time and aging. He's a player that has to be physical, has to get to net to be effective. He's 31 already and several years left.

yes. he's served on contract and more, to this point.

I get it, Hyman was brought in now to the compete now window. But to get him the team had to mortgage the future and make the contract longer than anybody would ideally want.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Due to length primarily. By the end of the decade this is certainly going to be looking like an overpay unless one thinks Hyman is some kind of superman that will defy time and aging. He's a player that has to be physical, has to get to net to be effective. He's 31 already and several years left.

yes. he's served on contract and more, to this point.

I get it, Hyman was brought in now to the compete now window. But to get him the team had to mortgage the future and make the contract longer than anybody would ideally want.

Okay.

And right now he's an underpay.

It all evens out.

 

[McTonyBrar]

Watching that behind the scenes clip of how the Yamo Kostin trade went down, does not inspire confidence in me that Holland shopped the players and got the best return possible for players. Here’s the clip

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

www.youtube.com

Holland made this team better than any other GM did before. You're worried about a trade that involved a 4th line winger?

Due to length primarily. By the end of the decade this is certainly going to be looking like an overpay unless one thinks Hyman is some kind of superman that will defy time and aging. He's a player that has to be physical, has to get to net to be effective. He's 31 already and several years left.

yes. he's served on contract and more, to this point.

I get it, Hyman was brought in now to the compete now window. But to get him the team had to mortgage the future and make the contract longer than anybody would ideally want.

Dude he's not even close to overpaid lol

 

[Fourier]

How was Hyman an overpay exactly?

He wasn't. People have an issue with the last few years of the deal but by the last year of the deal we could easily be looking at a cap of $105-110M. The deal is also stuctured to be movable in the last two years. First the deal changes from a NMC to a M-NTC. After the bonus is paid in the second last year of the deal he would be owed about $6M in real money. At that point in terms of real dollars he would be being paid like a low end third liner. He would be 34 at that point with relatively low milage on his body. It's hard to see why he would not still be playing at a level that would make that a bargain. So if the Oilers needed to move him they most likely could do so fairly easily.

 

[belair]

Watching that behind the scenes clip of how the Yamo Kostin trade went down, does not inspire confidence in me that Holland shopped the players and got the best return possible for players. Here’s the clip

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

www.youtube.com

How? It was a video that completely revolved around the draft. If a team wanted Yamamoto at least year's trade deadline, there's a good chance Holland would have moved him then.

The flat salary cap has completely devalued depth players with these types of contracts.

The best time to trade him would've been before he was extended. Same went for Puljujarvi.

 

[TheNumber4]

Holland made this team better than any other GM did before. You're worried about a trade that involved a 4th line winger?


Dude he's not even close to overpaid lol

The team is better now than ever before. Due in some part to Holland, he’s made some good moves. But that doesn’t give him a pass for EVERY single move he makes.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

Can't really say that Brown and Kulak deserve to be on a list of some kind of amazing finds.

Kane dropped in our lap because the NHL is stupid and most teams believed the bs from his wife. Credit to Holland for seeing through that and realizing Kane is actually a decent man. We overpaid for Hyman to get him. The trouble part of that contract comes in later years as most players slow down and are less effective at older age. Ekholm solid get.

But this is a team in win now mode loading for SC. Its disappointing that due to the Nurse, Campbell etc contracts that we do not have the money to even make a splash of any sort.

This is just intentional pessimism.

Brown is a top 6 winger and finally gives us a complete top 6. Kulak is dominant for a bottom pair dman. He's been great for 3 straight playoff runs. Hyman is absolutely not overpaid.

We'll be able to make a splash if needed at the deadline. Cup contenders/winners always do.

Realistically our top 6F and top 3D are set. Not a bad way to go into the deadline. Needing a 4RD, bottom 6C, potentially a 3rd line winger, and 3rd goalie.... none of those are drastically impossible to get. And we have cap we can move out if needed to make it happen. And chances are one of them happens internally.

Last year Vegas brought in Hill, Barbashev and Blueger in season while in cap hell.

The year before Colorado brought in during the season : Manson, Lehkonen, Cogliano

All players of the same caliber that we need to finalize the roster. All acquired in season by teams who felt it was their time. I see no reason why it can't be us making those moves in season, and Holland has certainly shown a willingness to do it.

 

[TheNumber4]

How? It was a video that completely revolved around the draft. If a team wanted Yamamoto at least year's trade deadline, there's a good chance Holland would have moved him then.

The flat salary cap has completely devalued depth players with these types of contracts.

The best time to trade him would've been before he was extended. Same went for Puljujarvi.

Huh? No Yamo wouldn’t have been on the market at the TDL and wasn’t.

 

[AM]

Kostin GA on ice was as low as anybody on the team. Just saying. I get your point but him being some kind of disaster defensively is mistated. In anycase I feel defending is unit based, yes, but primarily most improvement in GA is had through D and G and concerted schemes that make sense.

If he was better defensively the coach would have given him more minutes.

 

[Drivesaitl]

This is just intentional pessimism.

Brown is a top 6 winger and finally gives us a complete top 6. Kulak is dominant for a bottom pair dman. He's been great for 3 straight playoff runs. Hyman is absolutely not overpaid.

We'll be able to make a splash if needed at the deadline. Cup contenders/winners always do.

Realistically our top 6F and top 3D are set. Not a bad way to go into the deadline. Needing a 4RD, bottom 6C, potentially a 3rd line winger, and 3rd goalie.... none of those are drastically impossible to get. And we have cap we can move out if needed to make it happen. And chances are one of them happens internally.

Last year Vegas brought in Hill, Barbashev and Blueger in season while in cap hell.

The year before Colorado brought in during the season : Manson, Lehkonen, Cogliano

All players of the same caliber that we need to finalize the roster. All acquired in season by teams who felt it was their time. I see no reason why it can't be us making those moves in season, and Holland has certainly shown a willingness to do it.

Brown is a player that didn't even play all of last season due to serious injury. We don't even know what we have. I sure don't consider him some kind of bigtime addition. the guy has lol 90 career goals through a long career.

A guy with a career high of 20 goals is our sure shot great topsix player? lol

 

[belair]

Huh? No Yamo wouldn’t have been on the market at the TDL and wasn’t.

All of those secondary players would have been trade chips in the right scenario. Puljujarvi, Foegele and Yamamoto all carried heavy contracts that could've been used as vehicles to clear necessary cap space to facilitate a trade to improve elsewhere on the roster.

All that video showed you was how desperate certain teams were to get cap compliant once the league announced the $1m increase. Plenty of productive players have moved in recent years for next to nothing just because cap space is at such a high priority.

 

[TheNumber4]

All of those secondary players would have been trade chips in the right scenario. Puljujarvi, Foegele and Yamamoto all carried heavy contracts that could've been used as vehicles to clear necessary cap space to facilitate a trade to improve elsewhere on the roster.

All that video showed you was how desperate certain teams were to get cap compliant once the league announced the $1m increase. Plenty of productive players have moved in recent years for next to nothing just because cap space is at such a high priority.

Yeh teams still need to throw a player on the market in order to gauge interest. Oilers by all indications had Yamo penciled in going into the playoffs.

A clip like that will never show the full story, it doesn’t show much admittedly. But it shows Holland causally dealing away Kostin/Yamo, ONLY dealing with Yzerman, ZERO talk about any other offers or teams talked to, ZERO indication that any of that was even done, lots of worried and blank faces in the organization (Wright/Gretzky) for anyone observing the trade going down. Maybe there’s more that went down, but it doesn’t look like it from that clip.

 

[Drivesaitl]

He wasn't. People have an issue with the last few years of the deal but by the last year of the deal we could easily be looking at a cap of $105-110M. The deal is also stuctured to be movable in the last two years. First the deal changes from a NMC to a M-NTC. After the bonus is paid in the second last year of the deal he would be owed about $6M in real money. At that point in terms of real dollars he would be being paid like a low end third liner. He would be 34 at that point with relatively low milage on his body. It's hard to see why he would not still be playing at a level that would make that a bargain. So if the Oilers needed to move him they most likely could do so fairly easily.

With all fairness you've been speaking of the cap going up appreciably for years. Just spitballing from memory over the last 5yrs the cap hasn't gone up as much as would have been thought.

Is it not a concern in collapsed economies, in drastically increased cost of living that sporting revenues are going to hit a potential wall, if not a collapse? The average person can't afford tickets right now. Theres a limited amount of people that can and the Oilers tickets are again becoming much easier to get (if one wants to pay the price) and this with McDrai AND a new arena.

Demand is likely going down at least as far as gate is concerned. If a team with McDrai isn't selling out games in a hockey mad market in a new arena few will..