Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Lavoie Vs. Pederson Vs. Sutter Vs. Gagner Vs. Caggiula

[SupremeTeam16]

Not sure why some people are even comparing Janmark to Kostin. Janmark is a perfect bottom 6 (4LW) player making 1m a year. Signing Janmark didnt prevent signing anyone else.

The debate is really Foegele vs Kostin vs Bjugstad. And a case can be made for all of them.

Foegele
- We more or less know what we are getting with him. Its a good thing and a bad thing. Hes going to give us probably around 12G in the regular season and probably a couple goals in the playoffs. Decent floor but limited ceiling.
- Fits in well with the team. Team mates like him.
- No particular value on the PP or PK.
- Is ok defensively.
- Big body. Goes to the net. Not great hands.
- Hes not a 2.75m dollar player
- Could argue that hes just blocking Holloway (LW3)
- Fact that he only has 1 year left on his deal (versus 2 from the others) I think is a plus. We also dont know if there was a cost to move his contract.

Kostin
- Bigger body and has shown the ability to fight. (fills a different role than Foegele)
- I think the fact that he hasnt produced well in the AHL is a bit of a red flag. When you watch him, you can see the potential though. Ceiling is higher than Foegeles but its hard to say where his floor is. There is also just more risk in Russian players.
- Seems ok defensively to me. But I do wonder if doesnt instill in game what the coaches want in practice.
- Crowd favorite. Sticks up for teammates. Has some swagger.
- Showed more in the playoffs than the other two.
- No value on the PK. He may have some PP value but he isnt getting it with this team.
- Could argue that hes just blocking Holloway (LW3)
- Paying him 2m a year would of allowed a 22 man roster (if Foegele was moved)

Bjugstad
- Big body
- RC fills a role. I would argue that 3C/4C is a bigger hole on this team than LW3 (which Holloway can likely fill)
- More value on the PK than Foegele/Kostin
- Ok defensively. Shown spurts of offense.
- We dont know how well he fit in with the team (hard to know when you're a TDL acquisition)
- Decent floor but not a high ceiling (probably higher than Foegeles)
- Biggest knock for me is, for a guy thats made $30m total, he would rather play on Arizona for an extra 1m a year. Need guys that want to win.
- Paying him 2m a year would of allowed a 22man roster (if Foegele was moved)

I think from an actual asset and cap point of view, Foegele is probably the worst bet. Hes not a 2.75m player at the end of the day. But we dont know if the team could realistically move him or not. Hes liked by his teammates and the Oilers know what they will get from him, which means something. But not sure that he makes us a better team over the other two. I could see him signing more of a team friendly deal next year to stay.

I think Kostin was the riskiest of the three but higher reward. Higher chance that he doesnt replicate what he did (high shooting % combined with no real AHL success). But I think he has more potential than the other two. Fills a different role than Foegele and would of allowed a 22 man roster (which I think is important).

Honestly think Bjugstad makes more sense than both Foegele and Kostin. Fills a role and Holloway can likely replace Foegele/Kostin anyway. But I do question how much he wanted to win so who knows really.

I am not sure that the difference between any of the three really matters though.

I agree with this assessment completely, personally if we’re talking player wise my list would be Bjug, Kostin, Foegele in that order but the contract factor makes it a little murkier for me. Even though Foegele is paid more, his deal is up at the end of the year whereas you’re carrying either of the other two for another season and also I think Forgele is going to be highly motivated in a contract year, he needs to prove his worth or else he could become one of these middling guys hoping for a league min contract next year. Im thinking there’s a good chance Foegele has a career year and a more productive year then the other two.

 

[belair]

Not convinced of this or that its a fair comparison. Janmark is a career NHL vet with tons of experience to draw on. Yes, value in that yes.

Kostin is a player that has not had enough GP to scratch the surface of all he can be and one could easily say has much more potential.

In the win now philosophy I can see people saying keep Janmark but the Oilers are getting to be a pretty old team. Kostins energy and vitality and physical play could be helpful at present.

In anycase the club could have kept both and got rid of Foegele. Thats the right answer.

When salaries and roles are taken into consideration, I think that it's a fine comparison.

I admit that I don't really see the Klim Kostin that's poised to break out offensively like a few others do, but I believe that breakout doesn't occur in the team's bottom six, mostly away from the intervention of the team's offensive drivers.

Foegele and Janmark have proven that they can put up that consistent 20-30 points every season from the third and fourth lines and they can also be relied upon in a special teams role.

I could have dealt with a Kostin for Foegele trade off, but I can also see why the team sees more value in the older forward.

Canada cooler was better

That might've been before my time. A quick Google search shows a 2L bottle of a 7% alcoholized fruit punch. I'm sure nothing could go wrong there.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

This tells me you havent' even looked at his career.

jebus the guy exceeded more than G/G one of his years. Multiple years with Dynamo unders where he ws G/G or better, Was G/g in multiple stints representing Russia in world tournaments.

Apparently to you the guy has never been a goal scorer.

Klim Kostin Stats And News

Get all the latest stats, news, videos, and more on Klim Kostin.

www.nhl.com

But as per usual you'll be provided with information and then just ignore it.

I have that’s why I asked… lol use a tournament but ignore the rest of his entire career. Hilarious. Also you are bringing up u16? Haha come on man.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

This tells me you havent' even looked at his career.

jebus the guy exceeded more than G/G one of his years. Multiple years with Dynamo unders where he ws G/G or better, Was G/g in multiple stints representing Russia in world tournaments.

Apparently to you the guy has never been a goal scorer.

Klim Kostin Stats And News

Get all the latest stats, news, videos, and more on Klim Kostin.

www.nhl.com

But as per usual you'll be provided with information and then just ignore it.

You mean the career where hes never been an outstanding goalscorer?

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Jake Chiasson in the fold, nevermind I think we all new that lol

 

[Drivesaitl]

You mean the career where hes never been an outstanding goalscorer?

Never? You're wrong.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Never? You're wrong.

Ah, so a couple tourneys in u16 and u17.

Puljujarvi once had over g/g in the u18's.

Doesn't make him a good goalscorer

34 goals in 200+ AHL games should hold far more weight than those 2 brief tourneys where theres teams that comparable at them.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I have that’s why I asked… lol use a tournament but ignore the rest of his entire career. Hilarious. Also you are bringing up u16? Haha come on man.
View attachment 743526

Why would you use a citation that doesn't even include all hsi play when I already gave you one?

In anycase even here Kostin scored 14EVgoals in limited minutes, mostly bottomsix through 70GP. How many of our players scored more?

You know that 14EV goals in a season for a bottomsix player is good right?

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Never? You're wrong.

Yep you got us. Scored 30 goals when he was 15.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Ah, so a couple tourneys in u16 and u17.

Puljujarvi once had over g/g in the u18's.

Doesn't make him a good goalscorer

Reasonable. Sure. But you said never. Never say never.

jk aside Kostin has a quick release and pure snipe shot. He does have one of the best shots of any player on the team. he has one of the hardest and fastest shots. Not just unleashed in skills comps. The guy can fire 95mph shots routinely. Can Puljujarvi?

Yep you got us. Scored 30 goals when he was 15.

You asked, I quote "When has Kostin ever beena goal scorer.

I provide answers and as per usual your droll reply. Welcome to ignore. You're not worth further time.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Why would you use a citation that doesn't even include all hsi play when I already gave you one?

In anycase even here Kostin scored 14EVgoals in limited minutes, mostly bottomsix through 70GP. How many of our players scored more?

You know that 14EV goals in a season for a bottomsix player is good right?

You're the one who values his u16 and u17 tourneys over recent play where he hasnt shown to be a good goalscorer, and clearly shooting way above his norm % wise this year.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Why would you use a citation that doesn't even include all hsi play when I already gave you one?

In anycase even here Kostin scored 14EVgoals in limited minutes, mostly bottomsix through 70GP. How many of our players scored more?

You know that 14EV goals in a season for a bottomsix player is good right?

I said aside from last season in the original post. He had a great season but looking at his career numbers I have doubts he will do it again. He shot way above his career average shooting %. That’s why I asked you when he was some great goal scorer before last season.

Seriously though… your argument is Kostin has been a goal scorer in his career because he scored 8 goals in 12 games at the WJ and scored goals when he was 15?

 

[Drivesaitl]

You're the one who values his u16 and u17 tourneys over recent play where he hasnt shown to be a good goalscorer, and clearly shooting way above his norm % wise this year.

Kostin wasn't a good goal scorer this season and playoffs? lmfao. He scored 14 EV goals. Which players on the Oilers had more? Which players on the Oilers had more EVGmins played.

I'll save you the time. The only Oiler with a higher EVG/60mins was Connor McDavid. Kane was around tied with Kostin. Thats it.

Kostin was sniping this season. Hard to acknowledge?

Further since when is it laughable to cite what a player did in age 15, 16, 17 seasons. These are the draft sample years.

Nor was that the only time Kostin produced. As mentioned G/G in several tournaments. The only critique of his scoring I've seen is that he didn't score enough in AHL. But that would describe a lot of foreign players that take some time to get used to this game this side of the pond and still figure it out.

 

[belair]

It was a very good bet that Kostin's goal production last season was an anomaly. And the Oilers avoided the downside of it, avoiding the $2m commitment.

When the initial cost of that player was Dmitri Samorukov, I think the Oilers came out ahead.

 

[Drivesaitl]

It was a very good bet that Kostin's goal production last season was an anomaly. And the Oilers avoided the downside of it, avoiding the $2m commitment.

When the initial cost of that player was Dmitri Samorukov, I think the Oilers came out ahead.

While Kostin shot high percentage this season its not entirely unreasonable to think that given he has a high velocity hard shot with good accuracy, and the key he gets his shots away fast, could score say 14-15% going forward. Again with more usage he could score 15 this season. I'm not the only one here saying so.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Kostin is the new Marincin I see

 

[bellagiobob]

Why are we still talking about a player who didn't want to play here, and used KHL threats to get his way? I'm more interested in guys who want to be here and win, not guys who are simply chasing a paycheque.

 

[McDNicks17]

While Kostin shot high percentage this season its not entirely unreasonable to think that given he has a high velocity hard shot with good accuracy, and the key he gets his shots away fast, could score say 14-15% going forward. Again with more usage he could score 15 this season. I'm not the only one here saying so.

Shooting 15% at 5v5 would make him a top 30 shooter in the league.

He ain't that.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Shooting 15% at 5v5 would make him a top 30 shooter in the league.

He ain't that.

Which in the actual post you quoted I said 14-15%. Setting for minimum 30 GP there were 105 players in the NHL that shot over 14% and even including Ryan McLeod.

Is it entirely unreasonable?

Just for clarity as well selecting minimum 50 GP last season 64 players were over 15% shooting.

 

[McTonyBrar]

Lol Drive man Kostin is not that good. He's a 4th line winger who can't PK. I'll take Janmark over him thanks. The guy scored almost the same amount and he penalty kills. He also took less money.

 

[McDNicks17]

Which in the actual post you quoted I said 14-15%. Setting for minimum 30 GP there were 105 players in the NHL that shot over 14% and even including Ryan McLeod.

Is it entirely unreasonable?

14% would put him at 55th in the league for regular players at 5v5 players last year. McLeod is going to come down too.

Yes. It isn't reasonable to think a guy who hasn't shot over 10% in almost a decade is going to shoot 14-15% again.

 

[Fourier]

This tells me you havent' even looked at his career.

jebus the guy exceeded more than G/G one of his years. Multiple years with Dynamo unders where he ws G/G or better, Was G/g in multiple stints representing Russia in world tournaments.

Apparently to you the guy has never been a goal scorer.

Klim Kostin Stats And News

Get all the latest stats, news, videos, and more on Klim Kostin.

www.nhl.com

But as per usual you'll be provided with information and then just ignore it.

I really like Kostin. But being a G/gm as a 15 year old is not really very unusual for players who eventually make the NHL. He has never really scored as a pro and even as a junior he did not score much. I think he has a shot that can beat goalies but what he needs to do is to elevate the rest of his game so that he has more consistent opportunities to use it..

 

[belair]

While Kostin shot high percentage this season its not entirely unreasonable to think that given he has a high velocity hard shot with good accuracy, and the key he gets his shots away fast, could score say 14-15% going forward. Again with more usage he could score 15 this season. I'm not the only one here saying so.

Kostin's shot percentage is high because he cashed on a very limited number of quality shot opportunities. 56 shots in 57 games played. His previous year showed 31 shots in 40 games played.

There's nothing about his game that was suggesting that this player was suddenly going to grab a bigger role. He was a limited checking line player and the dip in opportunity at times suggests that he's a player that coaches had a difficult time trusting.

The small contingent of people who believe that there was something more with Kostin also suggested he'd need top six ice time to get there. The player we saw wasn't going to get it in Edmonton. He won't get it in Detroit either.

 

[Zerotonine]

Why have one when you can have four

U just need a bigger bowl lolol

 

[Drivesaitl]

14% would put him at 55th in the league for regular players at 5v5 players last year. McLeod is going to come down too.

Yes. It isn't reasonable to think a guy who hasn't shot over 10% in almost a decade is going to shoot 14-15% again.

Like I said its plausible that a guy that has one of the hardest fastest shots in the league, that has good accuracy, that has his shot as a feature in scouting reports, that has showed his shot in regular seaosn and playoffs...will continue to have a shot.

The knocks on Kostin are not enough shots. But thats explained in his minutes and mostly bottomsix usage.

BTW Kostin has shot this % before and even in NHL albeit limited sample.

Statistically I get it. You expect huge reversion in his shot %. Thats reasonable. But to postulate this is some kind of 10% shooter is probably not accurate either. I figure he will fly around +14% . We'll see.