Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Lavoie Vs. Pederson Vs. Sutter Vs. Gagner Vs. Caggiula

[Anarchism]

Because hockey is a game of mistakes. Unless you suggesting that Broberg would always make mistakes, I'm not sure what the point was that you were trying to make.

How the Oilers choose to build their bottom pair moving forward is of little consequence to the team's success. If longevity and development is a priority, young and cheap is the move.

I guess you don't understand.
Winning is this years priority is it not?

I'm sure you have played alot of hockey Belair.
You realize that the third pair is out there alot when the 4th line is cycling right. Giving rest to our top lines and taking energy from the opposition right. They are hopefully out there at that time against the opposing top line, at least in part, and need to be able to defend well.
Broberg has yet to show enough to steal a position let alone do well at it long term.
Personally i would trade his maybe potential for a D thats proven he can at least defend well at the NHL level--a troy stecher level guy minimum but hopefully with more upside and some other skill we could use--I've suggested Kovacevic.
We are in this position because Holland didn't slightly overpay for a Troy or a Luke at the beginning of summer.
Our timeline doesn't match Broberg's steady but slow development.
Right now Broberg is a tweener. He has as much a chance to not make it as he does to make it.
We all want him to succeed. What happens if by the trade deadline he is still making larger mistakes? Have you pissed away his asset value in face of a coming playoffs and can trade him for nothing then?
Goood luck to us with Broberg!

Can you visualize Broberg facing 7 or 8 minutes of March, Eichel, Stone at times.
Then at other time facing Roy, Howden, McNabb, Whitecloud, Hague.

Desi couldn't do and got walked and beat cleanly.

Further who comes out to put this developing guy in? Desi--you make him the seventh for any length of time and you can flush his develop.
Trade Kulak and play Broberg there while he develops-- really? Broberg and Desi as your third pair for this upcoming playoffs LOL

 

[Tobias Kahun]

If Holland trades broberg for a 26 year old #6 D.

He should be fired on the spot

 

[Arpeggio]

I guess you don't understand.
Winning is this years priority is it not?

I'm sure you have played alot of hockey Belair.
You realize that the third pair is out there alot when the 4th line is cycling right. Giving rest to our top lines and taking energy from the opposition right. They are hopefully out there at that time against the opposing top line, at least in part, and need to be able to defend well.
Broberg has yet to show enough to steal a position let alone do well at it long term.
Personally i would trade his maybe potential for a D thats proven he can at least defend well at the NHL level--a troy stecher level guy minimum but hopefully with more upside and some other skill we could use--I've suggested Kovacevic.
We are in this position because Holland didn't slightly overpay for a Troy or a Luke at the beginning of summer.
Our timeline doesn't match Broberg's steady but slow development.
Right now Broberg is a tweener. He has as much a chance to not make it as he does to make it.
We all want him to succeed. What happens if by the trade deadline he is still making larger mistakes? Have you pissed away his asset value in face of a coming playoffs and can trade him for nothing then?
Goood luck to us with Broberg!

I dunno, probably just trade a 5th rounder for the countless available bottom-pairing defencemen at the deadline?

If Broberg turns into a top four guy it's so huge for a team that's basically capped out and will be for the foreseeable future. The reward far outweighs the risk, especially when you're talking about breaking him in on the bottom-pairing (where he was just fine last season).

 

[belair]

I guess you don't understand.
Winning is this years priority is it not?

I'm sure you have played alot of hockey Belair.
You realize that the third pair is out there alot when the 4th line is cycling right. Giving rest to our top lines and taking energy from the opposition right. They are hopefully out there at that time against the opposing top line, at least in part, and need to be able to defend well.
Broberg has yet to show enough to steal a position let alone do well at it long term.
Personally i would trade his maybe potential for a D thats proven he can at least defend well at the NHL level--a troy stecher level guy minimum but hopefully with more upside and some other skill we could use--I've suggested Kovacevic.
We are in this position because Holland didn't slightly overpay for a Troy or a Luke at the beginning of summer.
Our timeline doesn't match Broberg's steady but slow development.
Right now Broberg is a tweener. He has as much a chance to not make it as he does to make it.
We all want him to succeed. What happens if by the trade deadline he is still making larger mistakes? Have you pissed away his asset value in face of a coming playoffs and can trade him for nothing then?
Goood luck to us with Broberg!

These are waiver level players that hit their low ceilings in their late 20s. There's zero growth potential with any of these types of options and they accomplish nothing but pushing Desharnais out of regular minutes.

Neither one of those players would displace Philip Broberg. Neither are worth anything on the open market. Complete trash.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Trading Broberg for some third pair plugger is such a terrible move. I dunno why the guy keeps going on for days like it’s the only move the Oilers have to make.

 

[Arpeggio]

The added benefit of Broberg being legit is that you can let one of Kulak or Ceci go when their contracts are up without having to sign another expensive defenceman to replace them. You can use that money to add somewhere else.

 

[DynamiteKid]

We also don't need to shore up our defence before the season even starts. Lets see what we have and make the needed move(s) at the trade deadline.

 

[Anarchism]

You all realize what your saying is Broberg might develop. This the JP argument.
Yes its a terrible thing to be put in a position where you have to gamble.
Holland could easily have picked up a defender early summer to share bottom pairing duties.
He didn't. He is gambling like you on either Desi taking a huge step forward or Broberg doing the same.
All im saying is this is the wrong year to do this and if you do you will end up choosing between Desi and Broberg.

 

[K1984]

Broberg could step in today and replace the ~15 minutes a night that Kulak is going to get playing on the 3rd pairing and we wouldn’t even notice a difference. And you’d save nearly $2m in cap space that could go towards fixing the right side which is a mess outside of Bouchard on the 2nd pair.

You would notice a difference the moment Nurse or Ekholm find themselves out of the lineup. Kulak has the ability to spot top 4 duty, and has elevated his game and been very good in two consecutive playoffs. We have no idea if Broberg can do either.

Maybe he can and it will make Kulak expendable, but I think it would be high, high risk to make that assumption before we actually know.

 

[Anarchism]

We also don't need to shore up our defence before the season even starts. Lets see what we have and make the needed move(s) at the trade deadline.

Deadline! deadlne! Deadline. You think you can successfully fix three areas at the deadline and integrate them into the lineup. There will be 10 teams competing for a few sure players at the deadline.
Were not one player away from holding Stanley.

 

[Spawn]

Problem is Broberg has a year or maybe a couple of years of making mistakes--sometimes small ones, sometimes larger ones--as he develops (if he develops?). Its normal as young D men to make these mistakes as they develop at the NHL level. He won't be plug and play.

He’s not plug and play. He’s been getting experience for the past two seasons.

 

[K1984]

I still like the concept of dealing Ceci + Broberg for a legitimate top 4 option on the right side that is more reliable than Ceci (assuming we get 2023 Ceci and not 2022 Ceci in 2024). Depth would become a bit concerning, however.

This type of deal is likely the only way we could add another legitimate top 4 making in the range fo $4M and stay under the cap.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Deadline! deadlne! Deadline. You think you can successfully fix three areas at the deadline and integrate them into the lineup. There will be 10 teams competing for a few sure players at the deadline.
Were not one player away from holding Stanley.

There certainly won’t be 10 teams competing for the bum defenders you keep mentioning.

 

[Spawn]

You would notice a difference the moment Nurse or Ekholm find themselves out of the lineup. Kulak has the ability to spot top 4 duty, and has elevated his game and been very good in two consecutive playoffs. We have no idea if Broberg can do either.

Maybe he can and it will make Kulak expendable, but I think it would be high, high risk to make that assumption before we actually know.

There are precious few areas on this roster where we can “trim the fat” in order to gain cap space to address the weakness on the right side defense.

It’s basically Kulak or Foegele.

I’d rather deal with the potential consequence of not having Kulak on the bottom pairing if it meant you had the cap space necessary to address the much bigger issue of Ceci on the first pair.

 

[K1984]

There are precious few areas on this roster where we can “trim the fat” in order to gain cap space to address the weakness on the right side defense.

It’s basically Kulak or Foegele.

I’d rather deal with the potential consequence of not having Kulak on the bottom pairing if it meant you had the cap space necessary to address the much bigger issue of Ceci on the first pair.

Foegele all day for me if it comes down to it.

Our depth on defense is thin as is and I think it has the potential of being a critical misstep if we assume someone unproven would be able to pick up more of a role before we actually know. Could be a different story at the deadline if Broberg emerges, but not now.

Honestly we are very, very fortunate that there were no major injury issues on defense last season. If Nurse goes down for a few weeks in October/November when the team was a bit unsteady that could have drastically changed how the season ended up. Even just having Ceci purportedly playing injured for most of the year hurt us, nevermind guys actually being out. The more blue line depth the better.

 

[Anarchism]

Of course there is the (somewhat fantasy) chance that Broberg could develop enough to be able to at least defensively replace Kulak by the trade deadline.
This would be so good. It would allow us to upgrade Ceci for a much better complementary player for Nurse.
Here's hoping.

 

[mkatcherin00]

I want to see if this new defensive system makes our D look better. Has a new system been confirmed? or are our D chasing guys out to the blueline again?

 

[Anarchism]

Foegele all day for me if it comes down to it.

Our depth on defense is thin as is and I think it has the potential of being a critical misstep if we assume someone unproven would be able to pick up more of a role before we actually know. Could be a different story at the deadline if Broberg emerges, but not now.

Honestly we are very, very fortunate that there were no major injury issues on defense last season. If Nurse goes down for a few weeks in October/November when the team was a bit unsteady that could have drastically changed how the season ended up. Even just having Ceci purportedly playing injured for most of the year hurt us, nevermind guys actually being out. The more blue line depth the better.

You do realize the value of Foegele (what he is gifted at) and why the skill guys want him right?
Without him we will be awful thin at the position and i would suggest Mcleod absolutely needs what he brings.

 

[Anarchism]

I want to see if this new defensive system makes our D look better. Has a new system been confirmed? or are our D chasing guys out to the blueline again?

It became obvious to everyone that man to man at the NHL level when the opposition can skate four lines is impractical.
Woodie has to change this to zone. What kind of zone we will find out. I hope its the traditional one which will force our wingers back and not allow cheat for offense.

 

[K1984]

You do realize the value of Foegele (what he is gifted at) and why the skill guys want him right?
Without him we will be awful thin at the position and i would suggest Mcleod absolutely needs what he brings.

I don't disagree. Would still rather lose him than Kulak if a gun were to my head though at this exact point in time.

I don't want to move on either guy at the moment. I know you're mocking the concept, but waiting until the deadline to determine the following is probably a good idea rather than jumping the gun and assuming we will have problems in these areas before we actually know:

- Will Ceci return to 2022 form when he could actually play fairly reliably in a top 4 role?
- Will Broberg step up and become a reliable option in more difficult ice time?
- Will Desharnias step up or step back?
- Will Skinner maintain and/or take another step?
- Will Campbell recover to be at least average?
- Will we be healthy or will space open through LTIR at some point?
- Will McLeod take a step that allows him to take up more 5v5 ice time or do we need another option in the bottom 6?
- Will Holloway take a step to become an actual consistent option in the top 9?

Guessing at any of these would be a mistake as we could blow assets/cap space that we don't have on something that might not actually be a problem. Let the season play out and then focus on what we truly need to address. There will be more options available at the deadline to address any of these needs than there are now as well.

 

[Anarchism]

I don't disagree. Would still rather lose him than Kulak if a gun were to my head though at this exact point in time.

I don't want to move on either guy at the moment. I know you're mocking the concept, but waiting until the deadline to determine the following is probably a good idea rather than jumping the gun and assuming we will have problems in these areas before we actually know:

- Will Ceci return to 2022 form when he could actually play fairly reliably in a top 4 role?
- Will Broberg step up and become a reliable option in more difficult ice time?
- Will Desharnias step up or step back?
- Will Skinner maintain and/or take another step?
- Will Campbell recover to be at least average?
- Will we be healthy or will space open through LTIR at some point?
- Will McLeod take a step that allows him to take up more 5v5 ice time or do we need another option in the bottom 6?

Guessing at any of these would be a mistake as we could blow assets/cap space that we don't have on something that might not actually be a problem. Let the season play out and then focus on what we truly need to address. There will be more options available at the deadline to address any of these needs than there are now as well.

I think you have hit the nail on the head with the gambles we are taking...there is one more but you got it right mostly.
You want to wait on all those gambles.
Im saying we should reduce the risk on one of the bigger ones. And buy a free agent (at the cost of one of the tweeners) to give Mcleod the best chance to succeed.
Fix one of the bigger ones (likely either goaltending or 1st pair RD) at the deadline.

 

[K1984]

I think you have hit the nail on the head with the gambles we are taking...there is one more but you got it right mostly.
You want to wait on all those gambles.
Im saying we should reduce the risk on one of the bigger ones. And buy a free agent (at the cost of one of the tweeners) to give Mcleod the best chance to succeed.
Fix one of the bigger ones (likely either goaltending or 1st pair RD) at the deadline.

Problem is if we hedge the wrong bet we might not be able to address the problem that we assumed would be fine, but got wrong.

ie. We move Campbell for someone else, spend assets to do it, only for Campbell to play well in his new home and the guy we brought in to fall flat.

The fact that plenty of more options will be available at the deadline is the kicker for me. Ekholm wasn't on anyone's trade list in October 2022.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

You do realize the value of Foegele (what he is gifted at) and why the skill guys want him right?
Without him we will be awful thin at the position and i would suggest Mcleod absolutely needs what he brings.

I’m on your side with this. With Yams, Kostin, Bjugstad out the door we can’t afford to lose another established NHL player. Unless a young forward steps up we just don’t have the depth right now.

This could all be different at the TDL though. Foegs contract would be easy to move.

 

[Anarchism]

Problem is if we hedge the wrong bet we might not be able to address the problem that we assumed would be fine, but got wrong.

ie. We move Campbell for someone else, spend assets to do it, only for Campbell to play well in his new home and the guy we brought in to fall flat.

The fact that plenty of more options will be available at the deadline is the kicker for me. Ekholm wasn't on anyone's trade list in October 2022.

True there is a cost both ways.

True there is a cost both ways. Your saying lets not a chance cause we might be wrong. And I'm saying lets take the one where we have a good chance of being right.

 

[Drivesaitl]

It sounds like a lot of teams do this every year, media is just making a louder noise about it this year because of the expectations.

I think it was Jordan Eberle that was on Jason Gregors new show and sort of shrugged it off when Jason mentioned it, and said in other words that Seattle amongst other teams also do it around the start of September too

The difference being that the Oilers have played 5 playoff series in last 2 seasons meaning that they've had about 2 more months of play than Seattle over past couple seasons. That adds up. For instance Florida, wouldn't surprise me if they miss playoffs this season. Theres often a hangover from previous playoffs, and the toil it takes. The Oilers have played a lot of hockey the last two seasons. Having as much a break from it as possible is advantageous.

The Oilers always have burnout stages in the season. Where they hit a wall. Drai particularly.