Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Lavoie Vs. Pederson Vs. Sutter Vs. Gagner Vs. Caggiula

[Spawn]

Kulak is way better than him though. Kulak has been fantastic in every playoff so far. We need experienced vets back there not more kids learning on the job. We’re trying to win a cup here. Brobergs ceiling might not even be a kulak level player at this point.

Broberg could step in today and replace the ~15 minutes a night that Kulak is going to get playing on the 3rd pairing and we wouldn’t even notice a difference. And you’d save nearly $2m in cap space that could go towards fixing the right side which is a mess outside of Bouchard on the 2nd pair.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Broberg could step in today and replace the ~15 minutes a night that Kulak is going to get playing on the 3rd pairing and we wouldn’t even notice a difference. And you’d save nearly $2m in cap space that could go towards fixing the right side which is a mess outside of Bouchard on the 2nd pair.

He couldn't even grab a 3rd pairing spot out of camp last season. Unless he has really upped his game from a big offseason of training, he is not an upgrade on Kulak.

 

[Spawn]

He couldn't even grab a 3rd pairing spot out of camp last season. Unless he has really upped his game from a big offseason of training, he is not an upgrade on Kulak.

And then he played half the season and put up good results. This is the natural progression of a young player.

I’m also not saying he’s an upgrade over Kulak. I’m saying Kulak at 2.75m is a waste of cap space when he’ll be playing behind Nurse and Ekholm. Broberg can play those minutes and Kulak’s cap hit should be allocated elsewhere.

 

[Anarchism]

He couldn't even grab a 3rd pairing spot out of camp last season. Unless he has really upped his game from a big offseason of training, he is not an upgrade on Kulak.

The risk that he remains a tweener has increased.
Further up to this point his developmental curve has been slow.
There is a small chance that in two or three years he can replace Kulak. The chance of that this year are diminishing small right now.
Why take that risk with this asset. His draft position right now provides him with some decent value.
Further you need a solid guy THIS YEAR.

 

[Anarchism]

And then he played half the season and put up good results. This is the natural progression of a young player.

I’m also not saying he’s an upgrade over Kulak. I’m saying Kulak at 2.75m is a waste of cap space when he’ll be playing behind Nurse and Ekholm. Broberg can play those minutes and Kulak’s cap hit should be allocated elsewhere.

Perhaps you underestimate Kulak and perhaps you overestimate the speed of Broberg's development.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

And then he played half the season and put up good results. This is the natural progression of a young player.

I’m also not saying he’s an upgrade over Kulak. I’m saying Kulak at 2.75m is a waste of cap space when he’ll be playing behind Nurse and Ekholm. Broberg can play those minutes and Kulak’s cap hit should be allocated elsewhere.

2.75m for a solid veteran #5 is not a waste of capspace, its the going rate now that its not 2007 anymore. Thats how much your precious Vegas Golden Knights just spent on their #5 last year and $1m cheaper than Colorado's going into next season. Good teams don't have a bottom-pairing of basically rookie dmen.

 

[Spawn]

2.75m for a solid veteran #5 is not a waste of capspace, its the going rate now that its not 2007 anymore. Thats how much your precious Vegas Golden Knights just spent on their #5 last year and $1m cheaper than Colorado's going into next season. Good teams don't have a bottom-pairing of basically rookie dmen.

My precious Golden Knights? What are you talking about lol

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

My precious Golden Knights? What are you talking about lol

Classic Spawn deflection rather than address the post. Its either that or debate semantics.

Not sure if you realize but you seemed to have put them on a but of a pedestal since they won the cup and use their strengths as an excuse why we can't win one. Or else I'm think of Broberg Speed. I get you two mixed up because you're equally negative.

 

[Spawn]

Classic Spawn deflection rather than address the post. Its either that or debate semantics.

Not sure if you realize but you seemed to have put them on a but of a pedestal since they won the cup and use their strengths as an excuse why we can't win one. Or else I'm think of Broberg Speed. I get you two mixed up because you're equally negative.

I beg of you to go find posts where I put Vegas on a pedestal. If you’re going to call someone out at least get the person you’re calling out right [MOD]

And just to be clear here, my negativity is what? That I think Broberg, a top 10 pick for this team, who has 80 games of NHL experience across the past 2 seasons is now ready for full time bottom pairing minutes?

And that I think Kulaks 2.75m cap hit is wasted in a role that should be seeing ~15 minutes a night and that it could be better utilized elsewhere on the roster? Like for example on the right side where we have Cody Ceci on our top pair currently?

That’s my “negativity”

Addressing your post btw:

Vegas, they had Nicolas Hague, a guy who had like ~60 more games played than Broberg does now, on their roster all season and into the playoffs.

Colorado won a cup with a #3 dman who had played ~40 regular season games in his career.

Tampa Bay won their first covid cup with Erik Cernak in their top 4. He entered that season at the exact same age Broberg is now with nearly identical prior experience in the NHL.

I’m far from calling for Broberg in our top 4 btw. But his draft pedigree and his performance thus far in his limited time in the NHL suggest that he’s ready for a full time position on the backend.

It’s flat out false to suggest good NHL teams aren’t breaking in young players and still winning. It happens all the time.

 

[syz]

Unfortunately our last viewing of Broberg was of him playing considerably worse than Kulak, who once again dominated his 3rd pairing minutes in the playoffs.

 

[MessierII]

Broberg could step in today and replace the ~15 minutes a night that Kulak is going to get playing on the 3rd pairing and we wouldn’t even notice a difference. And you’d save nearly $2m in cap space that could go towards fixing the right side which is a mess outside of Bouchard on the 2nd pair.

Oh I notice. Broberg right now isn’t close to Kulak. The only way I’d accept this is if both Ceci and Kulak had to go in a package for a top pair right D.

 

[Oil53]

Eating our young has been and will always be some posters views.I wasn’t a fan of the Broberg draft but do see some potential there.The missing ingredient,to me,is confidence.
Woodcroft has been brutal IMO at developing our youth in a way that would develop that confidence.Benching young players for every little mistake especially early in the season is a flawed approach.

 

[brentashton]

Lol... or why not have both bust out?


I'm glad majority of the fans are wrong. He will become top 4 on the team. Quote me on this

I’m being realistic versus being a dreamer.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Because he's younger, faster, has higher potential and will be playing with Ekholm at least for a short period of time.

I understand fans don't have faith but this is eerily familiar to how fans ripped Bouchard before.



Sorry about that. I agree with you!

Where have you heard that ekholm and broberg will be playing together?

 

[stewy04]

Winter is coming and we are a contender! Exciting times to be an Oiler fan. The boys are ready to go! And f#$% every negative #$%% in here!

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

I beg of you to go find posts where I put Vegas on a pedestal. If you’re going to call someone out at least get the person you’re calling out right [MOD]

And just to be clear here, my negativity is what? That I think Broberg, a top 10 pick for this team, who has 80 games of NHL experience across the past 2 seasons is now ready for full time bottom pairing minutes?

And that I think Kulaks 2.75m cap hit is wasted in a role that should be seeing ~15 minutes a night and that it could be better utilized elsewhere on the roster? Like for example on the right side where we have Cody Ceci on our top pair currently?

That’s my “negativity”

Addressing your post btw:

Vegas, they had Nicolas Hague, a guy who had like ~60 more games played than Broberg does now, on their roster all season and into the playoffs.

Colorado won a cup with a #3 dman who had played ~40 regular season games in his career.

Tampa Bay won their first covid cup with Erik Cernak in their top 4. He entered that season at the exact same age Broberg is now with nearly identical prior experience in the NHL.

I’m far from calling for Broberg in our top 4 btw. But his draft pedigree and his performance thus far in his limited time in the NHL suggest that he’s ready for a full time position on the backend.

It’s flat out false to suggest good NHL teams aren’t breaking in young players and still winning. It happens all the time.

I never suggested the Oilers don't give Broberg a bigger role or opportunity, I was defending Kulak's contract as a #5 dman.

If you want to compare Broberg to #4OV Bowen Byram I admire your ambition but I would consider that a huge reach.

You're missing the part about Cernak being paired with Victor Hedman. If we had a Victor Hedman on our team to pair with Broberg, great. We don't.

It's not as simple as looking at his draft position, his age, and then making a conclusion on his role and icetime. He has to show he's capable, just like Nicolas Hague did all year in Vegas. Hague was an 18-minute a night dman all year for Vegas and thrived. Not saying Broberg's been developed optimally, but he should as heck hasn't got that sort of pedigree yet at the NHL level. Right now, Kulak is head and shoulders a better dman than Broberg. Nobody's rooting against Broberg and we'll all be cheering if we get to the deadline and he makes Kulak expendable.

 

[TB12]

If they don’t get together for captains skates, people complain (see Vancouver’s situation). If we have a great leader like Connor who wants to get the boys together, people complain.

FFS, they skate and lift in the morning and then go golf, have BBQ’s, shit like that. The boys are having fun, happy to be here and happy to be around one another. This is good times. If they weren’t here they’d all be skating wherever their home is anyways, so I see no negatives with the boys having a few skates and then hitting the links.

 

[Louis Cypher]

I would be comfortable with Broberg replacing Kulak if Vinny was replaced by moving down Ceci and then Ceci's position upgraded.

 

[bucks_oil]

I beg of you to go find posts where I put Vegas on a pedestal. If you’re going to call someone out at least get the person you’re calling out right [MOD]

And just to be clear here, my negativity is what? That I think Broberg, a top 10 pick for this team, who has 80 games of NHL experience across the past 2 seasons is now ready for full time bottom pairing minutes?

And that I think Kulaks 2.75m cap hit is wasted in a role that should be seeing ~15 minutes a night and that it could be better utilized elsewhere on the roster? Like for example on the right side where we have Cody Ceci on our top pair currently?

That’s my “negativity”

Addressing your post btw:

Vegas, they had Nicolas Hague, a guy who had like ~60 more games played than Broberg does now, on their roster all season and into the playoffs.

Colorado won a cup with a #3 dman who had played ~40 regular season games in his career.

Tampa Bay won their first covid cup with Erik Cernak in their top 4. He entered that season at the exact same age Broberg is now with nearly identical prior experience in the NHL.

I’m far from calling for Broberg in our top 4 btw. But his draft pedigree and his performance thus far in his limited time in the NHL suggest that he’s ready for a full time position on the backend.

It’s flat out false to suggest good NHL teams aren’t breaking in young players and still winning. It happens all the time.

Wading into the deep end here.

I'd been advocating for trading Kulak or Foegele all summer. Not because I want to, I agree that Kulak is a better defender than Broberg... and I'd actually rather lose depth on wing than on D, just given injuries and the aforementioned weak right side... but one way or another we need that extra $$$.

I'd argue that you won't save the full $2.75 - ~$800K, since running a 21-man roster just isn't realistic.... but you would have some savings, since day to day you'd have 21 guys, and some days paying an extra league min guy, while players take a maintenance day...

So let's say you save $1.5M max... doesn't sound like much, but when you add it to the $375K we are projected to save, and then multiply by ~4.5X, you end up with $8.4M available at the deadline.

$8.4M

I never suggested the Oilers don't give Broberg a bigger role or opportunity, I was defending Kulak's contract as a #5 dman.

If you want to compare Broberg to #4OV Bowen Byram I admire your ambition but I would consider that a huge reach.

You're missing the part about Cernak being paired with Victor Hedman. If we had a Victor Hedman on our team to pair with Broberg, great. We don't.

It's not as simple as looking at his draft position, his age, and then making a conclusion on his role and icetime. He has to show he's capable, just like Nicolas Hague did all year in Vegas. Hague was an 18-minute a night dman all year for Vegas and thrived. Not saying Broberg's been developed optimally, but he should as heck hasn't got that sort of pedigree yet at the NHL level. Right now, Kulak is head and shoulders a better dman than Broberg. Nobody's rooting against Broberg and we'll all be cheering if we get to the deadline and he makes Kulak expendable.

I'm as much against the constant negativity around here as anyone... but I'm not sure this exchange is the best example of it.

The cold reality is that we have to make some tough choices this summer given our available cap. As above, I'd prefer that we got rid of Foegele (since D are more important), but we should have done something to preserve more cap for the deadline. Every dollar saved is 4.5X at the deadline and we really do need an RD who will move the needle on the 1st/2nd pairing.

Neither Kulak (nor Ceci) are that guy... and once you have that Ekholm-like RD guy, it really doesn't matter who you are putting out there for 9-11mins a night on the bottom pairing.

And you can't afford another Ekholm like guy unless you rid yourself of at least another 1.2M in salary RIGHT NOW and save it for the deadline.

Spawn isn't crazy IMO.

 

[Anarchism]

Problem is Broberg has a year or maybe a couple of years of making mistakes--sometimes small ones, sometimes larger ones--as he develops (if he develops?). Its normal as young D men to make these mistakes as they develop at the NHL level. He won't be plug and play.

 

[belair]

Kulak was bouncing around from ECHL to AHL at the same age.

This.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Kulak was bouncing around from ECHL to AHL at the same age.

Hey! That might be fine for other teams players but around here if a guy isn’t a top4 D or Top 6 fwd by 21-22 then they are a bust.

I challenge anyone to show me a guy who developed into a good NHL player after age 21-22. It doesn’t happen, guys are what they are at that age.

 

[belair]

2.75m for a solid veteran #5 is not a waste of capspace, its the going rate now that its not 2007 anymore. Thats how much your precious Vegas Golden Knights just spent on their #5 last year and $1m cheaper than Colorado's going into next season. Good teams don't have a bottom-pairing of basically rookie dmen.

It's a lot when that cap needs to be allocated elsewhere. Assuming that the Oilers are adding a significant defensive upgrade in the top four, Kulak becomes even more of a luxury.

Problem is Broberg has a year or maybe a couple of years of making mistakes--sometimes small ones, sometimes larger ones--as he develops (if he develops?). Its normal as young D men to make these mistakes as they develop at the NHL level. He won't be plug and play.

Darnell Nurse still makes these mistakes. He plays 26 minutes a night.

 

[Anarchism]

It's a lot when that cap needs to be allocated elsewhere. Assuming that the Oilers are adding a significant defensive upgrade in the top four, Kulak becomes even more of a luxury.


Darnell Nurse still makes these mistakes. He plays 26 minutes a night.

Belair Nurse has the occasional brain fart. You know this is not the same thing. You obviously have some hockey knowledge--why would you respond this way?

 

[belair]

Belair Nurse has the occasional brain fart. You know this is not the same thing. You obviously have some hockey knowledge--why would you respond this way?

Because hockey is a game of mistakes. Unless you're suggesting that Broberg would always make mistakes, I'm not sure what the point was that you were trying to make.

How the Oilers choose to build their bottom pair moving forward is of little consequence to the team's success. If longevity and development is a priority, young and cheap is the move.