Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | If Babcock is Our New Coach Will Players Want to Come Here?

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

He needs PP time and it’s not gonna happen here. The Oilers top 6 is already too small without him added to the mix. I see his value only dropping with NHL time, at least with the Oilers current roster configuration. I’d sell high on him after the AHL numbers he put up.

I don't know, Carolina just won the cup with their most effective line averaging 5'10".
If Savoie is on the top line, you could put Pozkholzin with Howard and that line would be fine.

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

Also his dad seems to hate Babcock. Probably safe to assume Jake would too, or at least his dad might be in his ear.

I actually wouldn’t mind Debrusk but I’d want Vancouver to retain because I see him as a 2nd liner, maybe 3rd at times. Probably won’t be on the PP, just there to add some ES goals.

Yeah. And didn’t he have like 5 of those for the Canucks ? I’m scared silly he will be out big add.

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

Not necessarily, might be able to make it up with term. He's only 29, I wouldnt be opposed to a longer deal to drop the hit.

Kapanen is the kind of guy you limit at 3 years MAX. Or you may come to regret it, like we quickly did with Frederic. We can’t take chances on someone who has had his career trajectory. He’s gonna get paid somewhere. Hopefully not in Edmonton.

 

[joestevens29]

Not necessarily, might be able to make it up with term. He's only 29, I wouldnt be opposed to a longer deal to drop the hit.

He’s an injury prone winger who hasn’t cracked 30 points in the years. He should be as short of term as possible

 

[Jarvi]

Kapanen is the kind of guy you limit at 3 years MAX. Or you may come to regret it, like we quickly did with Frederic. We can’t take chances on someone who has had his career trajectory. He’s gonna get paid somewhere. Hopefully not in Edmonton.

Thats why we have the coach we do. Babcock can hopefully push the right buttons to keep him motivated.

In 4+years, $3m will be nothing, and we will sure be kicking ourselves if our depth doesn't perform like he did and we lose McD because we dont have a cup.

Guys mature in their 30's, and he might have had the biggest glow up of anyone when it really mattered.

Frederic sucked before he got here, during the season, and the playoffs, showing zero ability to step up the intensity. Kapanen is basically the opposite.

Behind Murphy, solely due to position Murph plays, Kapanen should have been the top priority imo.

 

[Jet Walters]

This is not selling high. Babcock can get 20 plus goals from this kid, he’s done it with lesser players who were 3rd, 4th, 5th round picks and so on. Have some patience.

No one is giving you a top end player for Howard right now.

Care to make a wager on that 20 goal mark?

 

[joestevens29]

Thats why we have the coach we do. Babcock can hopefully push the right buttons to keep him motivated.

In 4+years, $3m will be nothing, and we will sure be kicking ourselves if our depth doesn't perform like he did and we lose McD because we dont have a cup.

Guys mature in their 30's, and he might have had the biggest glow up of anyone when it really mattered.

Frederic sucked before he got here, during the season, and the playoffs, showing zero ability to step up the intensity. Kapanen is basically the opposite.

Behind Murphy, solely due to position Murph plays, Kapanen should have been the top priority imo.

Most guys career are in down swing at 30 unless they are elite

Kapanen is a third liner at best 1-2 years 2mil is where he’s worth

 

[Scraping ice]

Why would the Flyers trade Cates? They have no Cs as is. Keep dreaming if you think they would add Cates in a deal for Nurse.

Lets have a quick peek at Philly C.

Zegra (yes i know a bit of a puck hog)
Couts (yes probably not a top 2 anymore but good for 3C)
Jeff Lucky (not quite there yet but defenitely in the traces.
Barkey ( started really slow but kept improving)
Jack Berglund (already high end defensive forward likely comes across next year.)

The center position on the flyers ....yes not there yet but boy some higher end guys climbing the boards.
That was Nursery and Flash.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

Why would we pay 5-6M on the open market for someone who has averaged 46 points but only played 66% of games the last five years when we could pay $5.5M for someone who has averaged 94% of games with the same PPG? Staying healthy is just as important a skill as any other.

This is what I say when I mean I think people see the last name here and freak out. You are not getting more consistent or better production (or health) for what DeBrusk makes in FA. It’s just not happening. You might win on a one year deal like a Mantha, but that’s not a sustainable solution and it’s just as likely you end up with a J. Skinner or Olofsson.

See guys there are Debrusk fans on here.

The points per game is different in the last 3 seasons Mantha's points per game is 0.68 and Debrusk's is 0.54 and that's with Debrusk getting loads of PP time. Also in terms of 5 on 5 Points per 60, Debrusk's numbers were in order (1.5, 1.4, 0.9) and Mantha's were (2.3, 2.0, 2.8); for Debrusk that is 2 seasons of producing at a 3rd line forward rate and the 0.9 last season is a good chunk below average 4th line production (injured Janmark level offense), where as Mantha is 3 consecutive seasons of 1st line production with the heavily injured season at the lower end of 1st line 5v5 production.

I care about quality of minutes more than durability, like Nurse is plenty durable, but there is a quality of minutes issue much like there is with Debrusk. Debrusk also doesn't get injured much cause he doesn't put himself in position to be injured, a lot of play on the periphery and half assing it out there. Also a crumb of injury prone with 1 or even 2 forwards isn't so bad, it gives a good opportunity to look at what you have on the farm and it helps the NHL & AHL squad feel connected, it's also easy to get down on yourself in the AHL and feel like your time will never come, but when there is a reasonable amount of activity it feels less far off. Also in procuring fresh new talent is made easier when you are seen as an organization that gives out opportunities, that case is harder to make if 95% of the years starting line-up goes on to play 80+ games.

 

[joestevens29]

Lets have a quick peek at Philly C.

Zegra (yes i know a bit of a puck hog)
Couts (yes probably not a top 2 anymore but good for 3C)
Jeff Lucky (not quite there yet but defenitely in the traces.
Barkey ( started really slow but kept improving)
Jack Berglund (already high end defensive forward likely comes across next year.)

The center position on the flyers ....yes not there yet but boy some higher end guys climbing the boards.

Zegras doesn’t play center all that much

 

[Jarvi]

Most guys career are in down swing at 30 unless they are elite

Kapanen is a third liner at best 1-2 years 2mil is where he’s worth

Thats not really true anymore. Even still, I want to win now.

3rd liner money is way more than 2 million now.

 

[Scraping ice]

Zegras doesn’t play center all that much

He will though...once he learns the same lesson that puck hog yzerman had to learn....not saying he is Yzerboy but needs to understand about his teammates. They boy can pass, he is a natural centre and he has excellent vision and his brain works fast.
Get whats his name to teach him faceoffs.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Kapanen is the kind of guy you limit at 3 years MAX. Or you may come to regret it, like we quickly did with Frederic. We can’t take chances on someone who has had his career trajectory. He’s gonna get paid somewhere. Hopefully not in Edmonton.

He takes a lot of nights off.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

Babcock is good at getting development out of this type of player.

Good with undersized skill players? Sure, absolutely, one of the best, but there is always a base level of puck protection and defensive play away from the puck that he expects. Howard's defensive game made good strides in the AHL, but probably a touch short for Babs tastes and he definitely needs to get stronger and improve his balance/core to do reasonably well at puck protection.

I'd also remind you that Babs in Detroit was all about the overripe prospects, they often let them marinate to acquire the traits I spoke of. He loves a quality player regardless of size, but they got to be ready to go, I would think Hutson is probably ahead of Howard in Babs pecking order.

 

[belair]

He takes a lot of nights off.

Away from Draisaitl the numbers weren't great either. I'd let him test the market and if the calls don't come, I'd happily have him back for under $2m. That's what guys like him are worth.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Away from Draisaitl the numbers weren't great either. I'd let him test the market and if the calls don't come, I'd happily have him back for under $2m. That's what guys like him are worth.

Hopefully the Oiler players are training like mad this summer as lazy play and taking the first 20 games off probably wont go over so well this year.

 

[BeranekAndNeck]

See guys there are Debrusk fans on here.

Again, I think if his name was Jake Smith people would be much less emotional about the idea.

The points per game is different in the last 3 seasons Mantha's points per game is 0.68 and Debrusk's is 0.54 and that's with Debrusk getting loads of PP time.

But again, Mantha doesn’t play the games. Also, his PPG is artificially inflated by what was a clear outlier season that’s 30% higher than his best year otherwise. Why should we pay out the nose for that?

Also in terms of 5 on 5 Points per 60, Debrusk's numbers were in order (1.5, 1.4, 0.9) and Mantha's were (2.3, 2.0, 2.8); for Debrusk that is 2 seasons of producing at a 3rd line forward rate and the 0.9 last season is a good chunk below average 4th line production (injured Janmark level offense), where as Mantha is 3 consecutive seasons of 1st line production with the heavily injured season at the lower end of 1st line 5v5 production.

DeBrusk has the 94th most ES goals since entering the league, ahead of Lehkonen, Seguin, Terry and yes Mantha. There 180 top six forwards in the league at any given time so he’s firmly middle of the pack.

I care about quality of minutes more than durability, like Nurse is plenty durable, but there is a quality of minutes issue much like there is with Debrusk.

“Quality of minutes” is not really a thing when the player is firmly in top six territory compared to his peers as shown with ESG. You are sounding like one of those scouts in the Moneyball movie who don’t like how much someone weighs or what their girlfriend looks like. He gets results consistently- way more consistently than Mantha- and does it at what is a reasonable cap hit for this market.

also doesn't get injured much cause he doesn't put himself in position to be injured, a lot of play on the periphery and half assing it out there.

DeBrusk had more hits than Mantha last year, so if he isn’t “putting himself in a position” to be injured, what’s the other guy doing?

Also a crumb of injury prone with 1 or even 2 forwards isn't so bad, it gives a good opportunity to look at what you have on the farm and it helps the NHL & AHL squad feel connected, it's also easy to get down on yourself in the AHL and feel like your time will never come, but when there is a reasonable amount of activity it feels less far off. Also in procuring fresh new talent is made easier when you are seen as an organization that gives out opportunities, that case is harder to make if 95% of the years starting line-up goes on to play 80+ games.

This is the most bizarre argument I’ve ever seen on this board. So McDavid would be a better player if he missed more games because it would let guys from the minors get ice time? What?

 

[Oilhawks]

Away from Draisaitl the numbers weren't great either. I'd let him test the market and if the calls don't come, I'd happily have him back for under $2m. That's what guys like him are worth.

Probably been mentioned but I don’t like how injuries seemed to be automatic for him this year as well

If he doesn’t want to stay for a discount, he’s earned a raise elsewhere

 

[McDoused]

I listened again. Stauffer said if the Oilers move the Nurse contract, they could get a 7 million dollar forward back and sign a 2-3 million dollar defender.

On the segment 100% Hockey, around the 18:50 minute he said what I wrote above.

Very interesting.

What's funny is I stopped listening after he has Shannon on and went to break.

He specifically kept the show long to read to a Darnell nurse trade text from a listener. He did say no guarantee of a trade but he did say that it would be a nurse trade without retention for a 7M forward.

Thats interesting to me because of the way he worded it. It was "get back" a 7M forward. So im not sure if hes implying just one trade and not two separate ones. IMO, it kind of rules out Boeser and guys like that because you wouldnt trade Nurse for them. You would trade nurse to clear space.

Having said that trading Nurse for Seeler and Boeser makes sense.

Still, if you look at the 3 rumored teams that would be Fiala at 7.88, Byfield at 6.25,. Rust and Rakell are reaches in the 5's. Philadelphia would have to be Couturier at 7.75 or Tippett at 6.25.

Holland is dumb but hes not trading us Fiala or Byfield. Rust and Rakkell are making too little. Couturier doesnt make sense unless they somehow see him as a 2C and move Draisaitl to the wing? (Please god no). So Tippett is the only one thats close but hes still a 6.

I think the guy might be Alexis Lafreniere from NYR. Hes 7.45 and isnt far from Pittsburgh or Philadelphia. Another option might be Mason MacTavish from Anaheim who makes 7M but hes worth more than nurse. Both guys might be considered distressed assets.

Peterka would also be unreal if hes willing to go to Utah. Hes making 7.7.

 

[Soundwave]

Care to make a wager on that 20 goal mark?

I don't bet, but lets take a look at Babcock's history of work with the following players

Jiri Hudler, 58th overall (2nd round pick), 5 foot 10, scored 15 goals in his first full season under Babs, hit 20+ in his 3rd season, became a solid NHL player.

Valteri Fippula, 6'0, (3rd round pick), scored 10 goals in his first full NHL season, hit 20 goals under Babs.

Mikael Sammuelson 6'2 (5th round pick) was kinda floating around the NHL with a career high of 10 goals in a few seasons, 1st year under Babs hits 23 goals.

Damien Brunner 5'11 (undrafted?) scored 12 goals in 44 games (22 goal pace) in his first NHL season.

Gustav Nyquist 5'11 (4th round pick), scored 28 goals in 57 games (first NHL season over 25 games) under Babs.

Tomas Tatar 5'10 (2nd round pick) scored 19 goals in 73 games in first full NHL season. 29 goals his second season.



In Toronto:

Zack Hyman 6'1 (5th round pick) A nothing throwaway drafted by Florida, scores 10 in first full season with Babs, obviously becomes a 20+ scorer in a couple of years.

Connor Brown 6'0 (6th round pick) Gets 20 goals in his first full season in the NHL.

Andreas Johnsson 5'10 (7th round pick), Gets 20 goals in 73 games (first full year in the NHL)

Kasperi Kapanen 6'1 (1st round pick, 22nd overall) Gets 20 goals in his first full NHL season.


I mean this is a pretty damn long list, none of these guys aside from Kapanen are 1st round picks, no one drafted in the top 20 of any draft. Several of them are smaller than 6'0. Most of these guys were also getting little to no PP time. The Oilers have developed virtually no one like this, Yamamoto come on strong early and then fizzled out.

This is the whole point of hiring Babcock, if you're not going to let him cook, what is the point of the hire. You should have hired Sutter or Torts then, the main thing Babcock has over them is this kind of development of young offensive players. He does great with high picks too obviously (Matthews 4 goals right in his first game, Marner great rookie season, Nylander great rookie season, Kadri went from a 17 goal guy to a 30+ goal scorer).

 

[dem]

Nuge as our second line center is… not exciting me.

Imagine if we had assets like Broberg and Holloway to trade..

 

[McTonyBrar]

Nuge as our second line center is… not exciting me.

Imagine if we had assets like Broberg and Holloway to trade..

If we had those assets still, we wouldn't need to make a trade.

 

[Soundwave]

Shit, the Oilers even owe Babcock a debt of gratitue already, lol.

Hyman - 5th round pick
Brown - 6th round pick
Kapanen - late 1st round pick

All of these guys have helped the Oilers moreso than probably anyone we drafted ourselves lol. They all blossomed under Babcock in Toronto. He's done more for the Oilers than our own drafting/coaching before he's even coached a game here, lol.

Let him have a chance to work with Savoie, Howard, Hutson, you can't tell me the likes of Hudler, Tatar, Andreas Johnsson, Brown, Fippula etc. etc. were all bigger talents, a lot of these guys were nothing prospects. Think he can help Dach and Podkolzin also.

 

[BobbytheBrain]

I totally heard different. Thought Bob said if they can get rid of Nurses salary they can bring in a 7 million dollar forward and sign a 3 mill dman.

This is probably what was said. I swear the comprehension level when it comes to this stuff is at kindergarten level

 

[McTonyBrar]

This is probably what was said. I swear the comprehension level when it comes to this stuff is at kindergarten level

Go listen to it then man. Start at 18:20 of the last segment called 100% Hockey