Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread: “I’d buy that for a dollar!!!” Edition
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Fixed to Ruin
Come wit it now!
Fourier
Registered User
@belair Since the last thread closed I'll respond to my post about depth here with some context.
The phrase "depth wins" has been around since I first started watching hockey and that is a long time ago. As you know if you look at winners in previous decades they were almost always deep. But it was possible to have top talent and depth. And most championship teams had both. Things today are different. The cap makes it almost impossible for teams not to have several holes across their rosters.
My claim is that in the vast majority of cases it is not "depth" that wins but rather a combination of a teams best players and their goaltending. But this brings up the question: What does one even means by "depth"? That really matters. (See below) Traditionally this is used to talk about bottom six and bottom pairing players. My contention is that most often these players have far less to do with success than the play of a teams best players.
Last year for example, top 6 forwards scored about 30 goals 5 vs 5. Without one of their top six guys on the ice they had 5 GF and 16 GA 5 vs 5. In 2022, Colorado was seen to be a very deep team. Compher had 4 goals the rest of the bottom 6 had 3 5 vs 5. With Compher on the ice the Avs had 10GF and 11GA 5 vs 5.
In 2020-21 Tampa had a great third line with Gourde, Coleman and Goodrow. Together they played 199 5 vs 5 minutes in the playoffs 5 vs 5 and they had 4GF and 3GA. With a combination of two or more of these three they scored 9 goals and gave up 6. With none of the three on the ice Tampa had 37GF and 24GA. Moreover, their other big advantage was in special teams where they scored 22 GF and gave up 12 SH.
One exception to a degree was this year with Vegas. Their third line did contribute substantially, in fact, more so than their second. But their third line was completely atypical with Karlsson and Smith combined at $11M on the cap. This was possible because of a fairly unique cap situation in Vegas. Even so, vs the Oilers almost all the real damage was done by one line and Hill playing out of his mind. Vegas' depth did not win them the series.
So back to the bolded question above. What do you mean by depth? If it is swiss army knife like Adam Henrique as a possible 3rd line center or on the wing so that Nuge can play as the third line center, that is one thing. In fact, that is what I mean by depth by osmosis. Historically depth that has really mattered tended to result from an over supply of top six guys not from really good 4th liners.
All that said I am fully in favour with improving the Oiler's bottom six. It is particularly valuable to have good pk'er. But I think that the real bang for the buck would come from improving the finish in the top six. If they did that the Oilers dominant chance generating machine would be very difficult to overcome. The Oilers will win or lose based on the play of their best players and how goaltending holds up. All they really need from the bottom 6 is to play the opposition pretty much even and do a good job on the pk.
The phrase "depth wins" has been around since I first started watching hockey and that is a long time ago. As you know if you look at winners in previous decades they were almost always deep. But it was possible to have top talent and depth. And most championship teams had both. Things today are different. The cap makes it almost impossible for teams not to have several holes across their rosters.
My claim is that in the vast majority of cases it is not "depth" that wins but rather a combination of a teams best players and their goaltending. But this brings up the question: What does one even means by "depth"? That really matters. (See below) Traditionally this is used to talk about bottom six and bottom pairing players. My contention is that most often these players have far less to do with success than the play of a teams best players.
Last year for example, top 6 forwards scored about 30 goals 5 vs 5. Without one of their top six guys on the ice they had 5 GF and 16 GA 5 vs 5. In 2022, Colorado was seen to be a very deep team. Compher had 4 goals the rest of the bottom 6 had 3 5 vs 5. With Compher on the ice the Avs had 10GF and 11GA 5 vs 5.
In 2020-21 Tampa had a great third line with Gourde, Coleman and Goodrow. Together they played 199 5 vs 5 minutes in the playoffs 5 vs 5 and they had 4GF and 3GA. With a combination of two or more of these three they scored 9 goals and gave up 6. With none of the three on the ice Tampa had 37GF and 24GA. Moreover, their other big advantage was in special teams where they scored 22 GF and gave up 12 SH.
One exception to a degree was this year with Vegas. Their third line did contribute substantially, in fact, more so than their second. But their third line was completely atypical with Karlsson and Smith combined at $11M on the cap. This was possible because of a fairly unique cap situation in Vegas. Even so, vs the Oilers almost all the real damage was done by one line and Hill playing out of his mind. Vegas' depth did not win them the series.
So back to the bolded question above. What do you mean by depth? If it is swiss army knife like Adam Henrique as a possible 3rd line center or on the wing so that Nuge can play as the third line center, that is one thing. In fact, that is what I mean by depth by osmosis. Historically depth that has really mattered tended to result from an over supply of top six guys not from really good 4th liners.
All that said I am fully in favour with improving the Oiler's bottom six. It is particularly valuable to have good pk'er. But I think that the real bang for the buck would come from improving the finish in the top six. If they did that the Oilers dominant chance generating machine would be very difficult to overcome. The Oilers will win or lose based on the play of their best players and how goaltending holds up. All they really need from the bottom 6 is to play the opposition pretty much even and do a good job on the pk.
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Jimmi McJenkins
Sometimes miracles
Sounds like Oilers are not interested in most Russian players.
Tank was never an option here.
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As the rich get richer we must follow suit. Pressure is on Ken! Go get Tofolli, Jake or Buch!!
Tank was never an option here.
-------------------------
As the rich get richer we must follow suit. Pressure is on Ken! Go get Tofolli, Jake or Buch!!
I think the price for Henrique is already agreed upon
Oilhawks
Like Some Snow-White Marble Eyes
- Nov 24, 2011
- 29,676
- 54,304
He's a loyal guy until he sees what his market value is. Most guys, especially these bottom tier guys, are looking to maximize their value as they should. Vinny is gone, or better be, if the commands anything close to the Seeler deal.
Behind Enemy Lines
Registered User
Silly season is here. Random tweet by the Blues beat writer and same guy who last year cited a source that Parayko would waive for his hometown team. Just sayin' haha
mkatcherin00
Registered User
- Apr 2, 2023
- 10,683
- 10,415
I always say avoid any russian if he is a key player. No point lol. Don't trade for one unless you think you can flip him down the road
We should try being first place or growing palm trees.FiRsT pLaCe TeAm AnD pAlM tReEs
mkatcherin00
Registered User
- Apr 2, 2023
- 10,683
- 10,415
Andy is a good source for STL
Yesterday leafs nation was throwing around Colton to Toronto
KeithIsActuallyBad
SPEEN!
So Tarasenko is going to Florida
Middle 6 Forward Options
Eberle
Toffoli
Guentzel
Mantha
Henrique
Buchnevich
Duclair
The collective soaking of Nuck fan's panties over Kessel literally rolling into town underscored their stupidity. Kessel looks like he weighs about 280 lbs and he wasn't much of a player last year when he was less overweight.
oXo Cube
Power Play Merchant
Tarasenko is a good fit in Florida.
Panthers are the team to beat IMO.
Panthers are the team to beat IMO.
Oilers in NS
Registered User
- Oct 11, 2017
- 12,323
- 12,060
Here is the thing everyone needs to understand.
Henrique is great and all, but if it's just him and depth its a FAIL
In an all in year this is not a big enough improvement while our competition is adding players
TopShelfGloveSide
Registered User
- Dec 10, 2018
- 21,145
- 30,981
Yah we can’t compete with sunny Florida for tank. Such BS a team that had 39 fans a couple of years ago gets to be a powerhouse.
I get it though haha I would move to Florida tomorrow.
I get it though haha I would move to Florida tomorrow.
WaitingForUser
Registered User
I’m telling you he is the target KH has been after him since was still in Detroit
Come on Holland. Blow our minds.
Buchnevich, Parayko, Henrique for Campbell, Ceci, Foegele, picks and prospects
Buchnevich, Parayko, Henrique for Campbell, Ceci, Foegele, picks and prospects
mkatcherin00
Registered User
- Apr 2, 2023
- 10,683
- 10,415
Jimmi McJenkins
Sometimes miracles
mkatcherin00
Registered User
- Apr 2, 2023
- 10,683
- 10,415
I get it too, but I could never live in humid weather like that lol
Also would not want a snake or crocodile coming up to my house
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