Rumor: Rumors and Proposals Thread | Rishaug: Expect Swedish FA Theodor Lennstrom Signing

[oobga]

I've heard this speculation as well, I'm not 100% if any of it is true. For all I know the kid was homesick and he couldn't relate to his teammates due to the language barrier.

I doubt it will ever be confirmed, with Chia gone, and Pulju's camp has no benefit to talk about it. I'm mainly going by the mystifying decision by Chia to let Pulju stay on the NHL roster until exactly when his first RFA year was burned, after 40 games into the season. And finally he sends him down. There was also speculation that Pulju's camp were interested in staying in Finland in his Draft +1 year. Chia, being the pushover he is, it would almost be dumb for them to not try to take advantage of him. Demand a guaranteed 40 NHL roster games, which ensures at least 450k USD salary, and a burned ELC and RFA year. If we demoted him to the AHL much earlier, he could have ended up with around 150k salary for the season. He probably could have made more in Finland.

Chia didn't do this with other prospects. Seemed there was just something special about Pulju that let him stick around long enough, even with McLellan having zero interest in play him, to get over the RFA year limit.

 

[North]

Kurt Leavins wrote this

"Meanwhile, through all of the above, his teammates struggled to connect with him on the ice. Often, especially on the power play. Puljujarvi would repeatedly head to the wrong spot. He would literally bump into them. And when they would try to explain it to him their words of advice seemed to fall flat. Was he not listening…not understanding…or not agreeing? Eventually, although none of these players would ever dream of saying it in public…I am made to understand that they quietly asked just not to play with him anymore. There’s no suggestion they disliked him as a guy. Just that he was just hard to play with."

and like I said it was said on air by both Stauffer and Gregor. Seems like it was legit.

We saw all of this in Pulju’s play so it makes sense the guys who were on a line with him would get frustrated especially if he was unwilling to take advice.

 

[North]

I doubt it will ever be confirmed, with Chia gone, and Pulju's camp has no benefit to talk about it. I'm mainly going by the mystifying decision by Chia to let Pulju stay on the NHL roster until exactly when his first RFA year was burned, after 40 games into the season. And finally he sends him down. There was also speculation that Pulju's camp were interested in staying in Finland in his Draft +1 year. Chia, being the pushover he is, it would almost be dumb for them to not try to take advantage of him. Demand a guaranteed 40 NHL roster games, which ensures at least 450k USD salary, and a burned ELC and RFA year. If we demoted him to the AHL much earlier, he could have ended up with around 150k salary for the season. He probably could have made more in Finland.

Chia didn't do this with other prospects. Seemed there was just something special about Pulju that let him stick around long enough, even with McLellan having zero interest in play him, to get over the RFA year limit.

Probably part of the handshake agreement he had with Puljujarvi’s agent.

 

[oobga]

Probably part of the handshake agreement he had with Puljujarvi’s agent.

Start letting players feel like they can dictate how they are handled, and you probably get something like how Pulju ended up. Especially if you replace the pushover GM with a guy that doesn't take crap from anyone. Chia probably would have given Pulju a 3M+ deal to keep him happy after the disaster ELC.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

TMac said it in a presser I believe. He didn’t name names but said something along the lines of how he wasn’t getting top line time because those players were frustrated that he couldn’t keep up to their style. We only have two players who would qualify for that as Nuge publicly said he liked playing with Puljujarvi when they were a line with Jujar and clicked before Jujar getting suspended.

I don't think he mentioned names, per se, but it was heavily rumoured that McDavid and Drai were extremely frustrated trying to play with him because he was so erratic on the ice.

 

[North]

Start letting players feel like they can dictate how they are handled, and you probably get something like how Pulju ended up. Especially if you replace the pushover GM with a guy that doesn't take crap from anyone. Chia probably would have given Pulju a 3M+ deal to keep him happy after the disaster ELC.

It’s the price you have to pay for potential.

 

[bone]

I doubt it will ever be confirmed, with Chia gone, and Pulju's camp has no benefit to talk about it. I'm mainly going by the mystifying decision by Chia to let Pulju stay on the NHL roster until exactly when his first RFA year was burned, after 40 games into the season. And finally he sends him down. There was also speculation that Pulju's camp were interested in staying in Finland in his Draft +1 year. Chia, being the pushover he is, it would almost be dumb for them to not try to take advantage of him. Demand a guaranteed 40 NHL roster games, which ensures at least 450k USD salary, and a burned ELC and RFA year. If we demoted him to the AHL much earlier, he could have ended up with around 150k salary for the season. He probably could have made more in Finland.

Chia didn't do this with other prospects. Seemed there was just something special about Pulju that let him stick around long enough, even with McLellan having zero interest in play him, to get over the RFA year limit.

Though this seems like a possibility, if that was a major driver for JP and his agent, they just pissed away those gains by refusing to play this year including losing an accrued season to qualify for UFA pre-27, so I'm somwhat doubtful of a "handshake deal".

Think of it this way, if he stayed in Finland one year longer, he still likely would have signed a contract to give him the $92,500 signing bonus with an out clause to play in Finland plus what ever he would have earned in Finland. If he comes in year 2, he's more likely to hit bonus' sometime in his three year contract and less likely to get demoted at all.

As it turned out, he came over early and was demoted more often burned out that contract, but when he returned he wasn't getting anything extra from his NHL contract, and lost that accrued year of NHL play that could have helped him to UFA as early as 25 (now 26 and will be 27 if he balks again this year).

In the grand scheme of things, even for Jesse and his agent, staying the year back then was better for his overall career, than staying this year was.

 

[guymez]

Kurt Leavins wrote this

"Meanwhile, through all of the above, his teammates struggled to connect with him on the ice. Often, especially on the power play. Puljujarvi would repeatedly head to the wrong spot. He would literally bump into them. And when they would try to explain it to him their words of advice seemed to fall flat. Was he not listening…not understanding…or not agreeing? Eventually, although none of these players would ever dream of saying it in public…I am made to understand that they quietly asked just not to play with him anymore. There’s no suggestion they disliked him as a guy. Just that he was just hard to play with."

and like I said it was said on air by both Stauffer and Gregor. Seems like it was legit.

Wow.
I am not surprised that this was an issue simply because Jesse did look out of sync at times. That said I am surprised that the players were that open about it.

 

[joestevens29]

Wow.
I am not surprised that this was an issue simply because Jesse did look out of sync at times. That said I am surprised that the players were that open about it.

They had to be. Jesse was hurting their game and the team.

I also heard on Gregor's show probably through Rishaug that the players were also frustrated in practice. Just like in the game he wouldn't listen. The coaches would explain a drill and he'd just continue to do it his way.

 

[oobga]

Though this seems like a possibility, if that was a major driver for JP and his agent, they just pissed away those gains by refusing to play this year including losing an accrued season to qualify for UFA pre-27, so I'm somwhat doubtful of a "handshake deal".

Think of it this way, if he stayed in Finland one year longer, he still likely would have signed a contract to give him the $92,500 signing bonus with an out clause to play in Finland plus what ever he would have earned in Finland. If he comes in year 2, he's more likely to hit bonus' sometime in his three year contract and less likely to get demoted at all.

As it turned out, he came over early and was demoted more often burned out that contract, but when he returned he wasn't getting anything extra from his NHL contract, and lost that accrued year of NHL play that could have helped him to UFA as early as 25 (now 26 and will be 27 if he balks again this year).

In the grand scheme of things, even for Jesse and his agent, staying the year back then was better for his overall career, than staying this year was.

I'm sure he came to Canada confident that he was going to do something similar to his bud Laine. Based on his size and speed and everything people were saying about him, I don't blame him either. I doubt at any point in the first couple years that Pulju thought he wasn't capable of being a good NHLer. But, the longer it doesn't happen, there is a point where you have to point a finger at why. I think his demand for a trade suggests he settled on it being other peoples fault.

He has quotes along the way where he's talking about who he thinks he should be playing with. We know McLellan doesn't tolerate even an ounce of entitlement in players. By all accounts it seems his entitled attitude did a lot of damage to his standing in the lockerroom. It got to a point where trying to run away was the only option. Could have worked out for him too. Chia probably would have given options of a generous 1 year deal or traded Pulju for peanuts last summer. Can always hope too that he's grown up a bit in the last year.

In retrospect, so sure, it would have been best for everyone for him to stay a year in Finland. But, the kid was confident after a great year leading up to the draft. He was touted as the most complete 2-way prospect of the draft. Everyone knows coming from Europe to the NHL can be tough, so just in case, get some concessions from the pushover GM, that loses basically every negotiation he ever deals with, that you at least will make enough money the first season to guarantee it's worthwhile. For sure it wouldn't take more than 1 year to get comfortable, being an elite prospect and all. And...here we are

 

[LTIR]

or the lack of Finnish teammates and the feeling of being isolated and an outsider since day one. Part of that does fall on Jesse of course.

GM brought in a few Fin players .. isolation part somewhat falls on the captain and the core as well.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

GM brought in a few Fin players .. isolation part somewhat falls on the captain and the core as well.

Hard to include a guy when he doesn’t understand a word of the language.

 

[Whyme]

Kurt Leavins wrote this

"Meanwhile, through all of the above, his teammates struggled to connect with him on the ice. Often, especially on the power play. Puljujarvi would repeatedly head to the wrong spot. He would literally bump into them. And when they would try to explain it to him their words of advice seemed to fall flat. Was he not listening…not understanding…or not agreeing? Eventually, although none of these players would ever dream of saying it in public…I am made to understand that they quietly asked just not to play with him anymore. There’s no suggestion they disliked him as a guy. Just that he was just hard to play with."

and like I said it was said on air by both Stauffer and Gregor. Seems like it was legit.

First of all I'm not saying I know how things were or that I'm smarter than anyone else here. But I think this is a very good example of how internet truths form. First it was one person here saying something like that. Then I watched that slowly turning into a truth. Then there was this from Kurt Leavins.

I am pretty sure Kurt never heard anything himself, this "I am made to understand" sounds very vague.

I understand if Drai+McD wanted to play with each other and if there were times when they were frustrated at Jesse's low English skills. I also believe Jesse was an outsider and he at least felt some players were kind of against him. I still wouldn't make this "didn't want to play with him" too big of a deal without hearing even a bit of actual evidence.

 

[Whyme]

I believe this is my first and last link here:

Dear Edmonton Oilers, Why Are You the Way That You Are? Jesse Puljujarvi Edition

Not the only truth, but it maybe reminds of the things that affected why Pulju's last season started to go wrong from the very beginning. Yes Pulju himself could've played better but McLellan really messed his confidence.

Pulju scored 4 goals in his 5 preseason games. McLellan broke the well-working line just before the season started. Then he dropped Pulju to the 4th line after ONE game. I recommend you guys read the article, but here's some takes:


Really? Like are you kidding me? Before I get into the logical and rational part of this discussion (rant), why in the name of the almighty hockey Gods is Jesse Puljujarvi on the fourth line? What does this kid have to do to get on McLellan’s good side? The kid can play, he’s played well in the past and should at least be an absolute fixture on the third line.

The kid can play. I know I said that two paragraphs ago but if you watched any preseason hockey then you can understand my and many other fan’s frustrations. In the five preseason games, he played in he had four goals. One of them especially stood out to me as it was very similar to the way McDavid succeeds in attacking:

Watching him get demoted over guys like Kassian and Reider, who, at this stage in their respective careers are bottom six forwards, is damning. It shows that coach Todd: A. Has no trust or faith in Puljujarvi, no matter how he performs, and B. Plays favorites and veterans ahead of more gifted players due to personal bias.

There is no way you can rationally decide that Reider, Kassian or Cagguila have more offensive upside in their game than Puljujarvi. None. Doing so proves that you are either utilizing players based on personal agenda or are just very incompetent.

Furthermore, it is not acceptable to put your fourth overall pick in a situation where he will most likely end up playing fourth line minutes.

You know what worked exceptionally well in the one game they played together? The Khaira-Puljujarvi-Reider line, why not do that? Why not do things that work instead of throwing Cagguila and Kassian who are out of their depth in third line roles?

 

[LTIR]

Hard to include a guy when he doesn’t understand a word of the language.

Gretz and co should have kicked Tikkannen to the curbs then. Language is really not a deal breaker. As if North Americans don't go overseas and play.

Fact is that the Oilers screwed up Puljus development. It may be due to a handshake deal between Puljus camp and Oilers but the guy should have developed in the AHL.

 

[Fourier]

First of all I'm not saying I know how things were or that I'm smarter than anyone else here. But I think this is a very good example of how internet truths form. First it was one person here saying something like that. Then I watched that slowly turning into a truth. Then there was this from Kurt Leavins.

I am pretty sure Kurt never heard anything himself, this "I am made to understand" sounds very vague. If that's accepted as the main evidence I could bring all kinds of new truths here.

I understand if Drai+McD wanted to play with each other and if there were times when they were frustrated at Jesse's low English skills. I also believe Jesse was an outsider and he at least felt some players were kind of against him. I still wouldn't make this "didn't want to play with him" too big of a deal without hearing even a bit of actual evidence.

Hockey in Edmonton is a 24/7 12 months a year passion. This has been spoken about by insiders on many occasions. And as was pointed out earlier, even TMac essentially said the very same thing. Hitch also pulled the plug almost immediately on his experiment after basically stating that he had the secret cure. But if one does not want to take these reports for more than gossip, it is still possible to actually see this live in games. Too often he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

At one point JP actually stated that he preferred to play with Strome. Strome was very supportive of him when they played together. But here is a quote from Strome that hints of the issues in the Leavin's article.

“He just has to come into the lineup with great legs, make a couple of hits, take some shots, do what he does best. Sometimes you don’t have to worry about the x’s and o’s, just your best effort,” said Strome, who knows Puljujarvi has the raw talent.

Ryan Strome knows what Jesse Puljujarvi is going through

(It would be nice to have Strome now by the way). In other words, play on instinct rather than trying to think the game in the moment. Nuge was also quite supportive. And it's probably not a coincidence that Strome and Nuge are the type of players that are much easier to play with than McDavid and Leon. To be successful with those two you really have to fully understand your role and where to be because they play the game at such a demanding level.

The good news is that I doubt the players will be unwilling to give him another chance, and realistically this should be significantly easier for JP to correct than compensating for a lack of talent or physical prowess. So the best thing to do for all parties is to start a fresh and try to make the best of it.

 

[Fourier]

Gretz and co should have kicked Tikkannen to the curbs then. Language is really not a deal breaker. As if North Americans don't go overseas and play.

Fact is that the Oilers screwed up Puljus development. It may be due to a handshake deal between Puljus camp and Oilers but the guy should have developed in the AHL.

There is a difference here though. Tikkanen had superb hockey instincts. He fit those two like a glove and always knew exactly was his role was. That is something that Jesse has to learn. And for a kid his age it could take time.

 

[Whyme]

Hockey in Edmonton is a 24/7 12 months a year passion. This has been spoken about by insiders on many occasions. And as was pointed out earlier, even TMac essentially said the very same thing. Hitch also pulled the plug almost immediately on his experiment after basically stating that he had the secret cure. But if one does not want to take these reports for more than gossip, it is still possible to actually see this live in games. Too often he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

At one point JP actually stated that he preferred to play with Strome. Strome was very supportive of him when they played together. But here is a quote from Strome that hints of the issues in the Leavin's article.



Ryan Strome knows what Jesse Puljujarvi is going through

(It would be nice to have Strome now by the way). In other words, play on instinct rather than trying to think the game in the moment. Nuge was also quite supportive. And it's probably not a coincidence that Strome and Nuge are the type of players that are much easier to play with than McDavid and Leon. To be successful with those two you really have to fully understand your role and where to be because they play the game at such a demanding level.

The good news is that I doubt the players will be unwilling to give him another chance, and realistically this should be significantly easier for JP to correct than compensating for a lack of talent or physical prowess. So the best thing to do for all parties is to start a fresh and try to make the best of it.

Please show me the quote from McLellan. That was mentioned here earlier and I really tried to find something like that but couldn't.

Even if someone had mentioned something like that people are making too big of a deal from it. That's just because so many assume this has to be the truth as it's been mentioned so many times here. There are also praising comments about Puljujarvi. Would that then mean he was actually very liked and one of the key pieces in the team?

Anyone's entitled to their opinions but as always I'd love to read some actual facts. Not just "many insiders have said this" and "basically McLellan said this".

I have no problem in being wrong, but I'd like to see at least a couple of clear references to feel it maybe was some kind of a problem. I already said what I wanted to say so I won't push it more as anything that can be seen as defending Pulju won't buy me friends Well actually nowaydays the atmosphere is at least somewhat more accepting.

 

[Draiskull]

IMO its time for Oilers to move on from Puljujavi. Hopefully Holland manages to swap him for something we need.
This team needs to become a cup contender in 2 yrs max. There is no way we should be wasting away prime years of Mc Drai with plug n play supporting cast.
Make bold steps now and set this team up for 2021-22 as a legit cup contender.

As for what went wrong with Pulju. I think him watching Laine get a much longer leash, PP time and greater success in WPG frustrated him. There is no doubt he considered himself to be just as good if not a better player. I have very little doubt that Pulju will be scoring 20+ NHL goals as early as next year if given PP time but it just wouldn't be in Edmonton.

 

[SK13]

Puljujarvi has spoken english for years. He's been able to do (albeit broken) inteviews for years. If the language barrier as an obstacle for teammates and coaches at practice, they'd probably have someone on hand to rectify that (at the very least, Koskinen was there in his last year).

What I get from the Leavins bit isn't that they can't speak to him literally. It's that he's not learning or getting in better in practice. Most of us should be able to relate to a coworker not learning their jobs, and the frustration that can have.

 

[oobga]

I believe this is my first and last link here:

Dear Edmonton Oilers, Why Are You the Way That You Are? Jesse Puljujarvi Edition

Not the only truth, but it maybe reminds of the things that affected why Pulju's last season started to go wrong from the very beginning. Yes Pulju himself could've played better but McLellan really messed his confidence.

Pulju scored 4 goals in his 5 preseason games. McLellan broke the well-working line just before the season started. Then he dropped Pulju to the 4th line after ONE game. I recommend you guys read the article, but here's some takes:


Really? Like are you kidding me? Before I get into the logical and rational part of this discussion (rant), why in the name of the almighty hockey Gods is Jesse Puljujarvi on the fourth line? What does this kid have to do to get on McLellan’s good side? The kid can play, he’s played well in the past and should at least be an absolute fixture on the third line.

The kid can play. I know I said that two paragraphs ago but if you watched any preseason hockey then you can understand my and many other fan’s frustrations. In the five preseason games, he played in he had four goals. One of them especially stood out to me as it was very similar to the way McDavid succeeds in attacking:

Watching him get demoted over guys like Kassian and Reider, who, at this stage in their respective careers are bottom six forwards, is damning. It shows that coach Todd: A. Has no trust or faith in Puljujarvi, no matter how he performs, and B. Plays favorites and veterans ahead of more gifted players due to personal bias.

There is no way you can rationally decide that Reider, Kassian or Cagguila have more offensive upside in their game than Puljujarvi. None. Doing so proves that you are either utilizing players based on personal agenda or are just very incompetent.

Furthermore, it is not acceptable to put your fourth overall pick in a situation where he will most likely end up playing fourth line minutes.

You know what worked exceptionally well in the one game they played together? The Khaira-Puljujarvi-Reider line, why not do that? Why not do things that work instead of throwing Cagguila and Kassian who are out of their depth in third line roles?

McLellan and Chia were both probably close to the worst possible people you could have for GM and Coach with Pulju. Chia as a pushover is helping nurture a feeling of entitlement in Pulju and his agent at one level, and at the coaching level you have this guy that tolerates no entitlement, and you may as well take a crap on the team logo if you display it at all.

If Pulju was actually a really good player like we hoped, he would have done OK still. Actual elite players find ways to contribute and make themselves indispensable. The coach has no choice but to play you if he wants to keep his job. But, if you end up like a Yak, or how Pulju played, and you're in this middle area where people know you have all these tools but you can't put it together, you're vulnerable. And if you top that off by acting entitled with a guy like McLellan? You are quickly downgraded to a piece of trash. You're barely going to get any opportunity to dig yourself out of the hole you're in.

McLellan actually did find a mentor for Pulju in Strome, and he was looking like he was going to leave that alone. But back we go to Chia with one of his crappiest trades as the Oilers GM. Just so horrible in so many ways all the way through.

 

[Fourier]

Please show me the quote from McLellan. That was mentioned here earlier and I really tried to find something like that but couldn't.

Even if someone had mentioned something like that people are making too big of a deal from it. That's just because so many assume this has to be the truth as it's been mentioned so many times here. There are also praising comments about Puljujarvi. Would that then mean he was actually very liked and one of the key pieces in the team?

Anyone's entitled to their opinions but as always I'd love to read some actual facts. Not just "many insiders have said this" and "basically McLellan said this".

I have no problem in being wrong, but I'd like to see at least a couple of clear references to feel it maybe was some kind of a problem. I can tell you are very convinced that's the case and it's okay, but I already said what I wanted to say so I won't push it more as anything that can be seen as defending Pulju won't buy me friends

I've tried to find the explicit interview but I cannot so you will have to take my word for it that I do independently remember the comments. We do also know that TMac spent a lot of time with JP when he was first in town.

Again though this was not just Leavin's. Here are some comments by Ray Ferraro that echo what has been said. You will notice that they speak of confidence, something I know you have talked about.

You can see it in Puljujarvi’s game, Ferraro said. “My concern is he doesn’t look anything like he looked in junior. In junior he carried the puck, he shot the puck, he used his size to create separation. He doesn’t do anything like that. When he gets the puck it looks like, and I’m going a lot by the very few games this year when I watched him live, his first thought seems to be to get rid of it as fast as he can because he doesn’t want to screw up. And you’re not even looking at a player anymore. You’re looking at a guy in a uniform. He has zero faith, it appears, in his ability right now. And so the first step would be to build him up and if he makes a mistake, look past it. Coach him up. Find him a path of confidence. And then if it doesn’t come, then it doesn’t come.

“Right now I can’t tell you one real solid sense I have from Puljujarvi. Because he doesn’t shot the puck like junior. Where did that go? He doesn’t skate like there. He looks like he’s terrified, like to go to the wrong place, to be in the wrong place, to do the wrong thing. His assets are his physical gifts and he doesn’t use them. And to my mind they started him on a path he wasn’t ready for and the car starts going faster and you’re falling behind every block. And you just never catch up.”

Jesse Puljujarvi has been in a "pile of mud" with the Edmonton Oilers, says NHL's most astute insider

I agree that people are probably making a bigger deal of it than they probably should. JP could come in and show he has grown and none of what happens in the past should matter.

I think if the truth be known most people here are like you and they are hoping that Holland signs him and that he succeeds with the team. Really that is the best for everyone.

 

[guymez]

Hockey in Edmonton is a 24/7 12 months a year passion. This has been spoken about by insiders on many occasions. And as was pointed out earlier, even TMac essentially said the very same thing. Hitch also pulled the plug almost immediately on his experiment after basically stating that he had the secret cure. But if one does not want to take these reports for more than gossip, it is still possible to actually see this live in games. Too often he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

At one point JP actually stated that he preferred to play with Strome. Strome was very supportive of him when they played together. But here is a quote from Strome that hints of the issues in the Leavin's article.



Ryan Strome knows what Jesse Puljujarvi is going through

(It would be nice to have Strome now by the way). In other words, play on instinct rather than trying to think the game in the moment. Nuge was also quite supportive. And it's probably not a coincidence that Strome and Nuge are the type of players that are much easier to play with than McDavid and Leon. To be successful with those two you really have to fully understand your role and where to be because they play the game at such a demanding level.

The good news is that I doubt the players will be unwilling to give him another chance, and realistically this should be significantly easier for JP to correct than compensating for a lack of talent or physical prowess. So the best thing to do for all parties is to start a fresh and try to make the best of it.

Good post.
Makes me curious to know if Jesses Finland experience has helped him to think the game better or iwas it just a continuation of his unaware play.

 

[yukoner88]

Good post.
Makes me curious to know if Jesses Finland experience has helped him to think the game better or iwas it just a continuation of his unaware play.

Were there any former NHLers on JP's team in Finland?

 

[bellagiobob]

Were there any former NHLers on JP's team in Finland?

Here's the roster for this past year. Biggest name would be Jussi Jokinen.

Karpat 2019-20 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com