Proposal: Rumors and Proposals Thread: Pre season edition

[Soundwave]

Pittsburgh? They drafted and developed their starting goalies, Crosby, Malkin, Letang...added depth through Maatta, Sheary, Rust, Guentzel. Where is the high end talent they gutted their roster to acquire?

Washington? Drafted Holtby, Ovechkin, Backstrom, Kuznetzov, Carlson, Orlov. Where's the super high end piece they gutted their roster to acquire? The one the year they didn't trade for a Shattenkirk type add.

Successful teams don't gut their rosters to fit a formula. The idea that a formula exists is lunacy. If it were that simple, every GM would be following it. Elite defensemen are developed. That happens through experience. Do you really think Brent Seabrook would've been viewed as an 'elite' defenseman on an average hockey team? No. Good teams make these guys 'elite'.

This core around McDavid + Draisaitl is mediocre, it's closer to the Islanders in the Tavares era than anything great.

If you need to gut that core for Karlsson, you do it and build a REAL core around those three players.

 

[Little Fury]

Says who?

Says who? Pretty much every Cup winning team of the last decade, that's who. Out of every team that's won in that span, there's maybe two (LA and Boston) that didn't have at least three top 10 players in their position (at the time).

Hockey is as simple as it gets. The team that scores the most goals at the end of the game wins. Score more, give up less. I don't see anything about a prerequisite of having X amount of 'elite' players. It's a lazy simplification.

Hear me out what if I told you that, in a league where the baseline talent level is already quite high, having elite players increases the chances of outscoring the opposition.

 

[belair]

This core around McDavid + Draisaitl is mediocre, it's closer to the Islanders in the Tavares era than anything great.

If you need to gut that core for Karlsson, you do it and build a REAL core around those three players.

Again. 'Cores' don't win championships--teams do.

I'm not going to waste anymore time on this because your tirades always contradict your other ones. Remember this is the guy who constantly complains about our cap situation, lack of depth and 'losing' trades. This idea pushes us further down that path.

 

[Little Fury]

Takes more then just talent to win. It takes every player playing to the best of there abilities it take team chemistry a good system put in place, it takes confidence and a little puck luck. Talent alone doesn't win cups

Talent alone doesn't win cups but you don't win cups without talent.

 

[belair]

Says who? Pretty much every Cup winning team of the last decade, that's who. Out of every team that's won in that span, there's maybe two (LA and Boston) that didn't have at least three top 10 players in their position (at the time).

Hear me out what if I told you that, in a league where the baseline talent level is already quite high, having elite players increases the chances of outscoring the opposition.

And again, how many of these teams gut their rosters and limit their roster depth to acquire these 'top ten' talents? I'll answer that for you: none.

 

[Soundwave]

Again. 'Cores' don't win championships--teams do.

I'm not going to waste anymore time on this because your tirades always contradict your other ones. Remember this is the guy who constantly complains about our cap situation, lack of depth and 'losing' trades. This idea pushes us further down that path.

Bad teams don't win anything.

This core is nothing special, if McDavid misses like 20 games they would be a bottom 3 team in the league. So how good really is the "team" around him when they would sink to the bottom of the ocean without him for any real length of time?

Players like Nurse and Puljujarvi are alright, but if you can get Karlsson for that and a pick you do it.

Get rid of garbage like Lucic and Sekera to clear cap room for his extension and find other complimentary players as time goes on. This core is not worth investing in. Keep McDavid, Draisaitl, and maybe RNH if you can. Anyone else for Karlsson should be fair game and the rest of the junk -- dump it.

 

[Little Fury]

And again, how many of these teams gut their rosters and limit their roster depth to acquire these 'top ten' talents? I'll answer that for you: none.

Well, I'm not arguing for that course of action. Simply pointing out the Oilers' current lack of high end talent outside of Mcdavid and (arguably) Draisaitl is quite likely to hold them back from becoming a truly great team. They need to find a diamond out of the last couple of drafts, clear out some of the godawful contracts and hope lightning strikes.

 

[belair]

Bad teams don't win anything.

This core is nothing special, if McDavid misses like 20 games they would be a bottom 3 team in the league. So how good really is the "team" around him when they would sink to the bottom of the ocean without him for any real length of time?

Players like Nurse and Puljujarvi are alright, but if you can get Karlsson for that and a pick you do it.

Get rid of garbage like Lucic and Sekera to clear cap room for his extension and find other complimentary players as time goes on. This core is not worth investing in. Keep McDavid, Draisaitl, and maybe RNH if you can. Anyone else for Karlsson should be fair game and the rest of the junk -- dump it.

In you assessment if Karlsson goes down, the season's over. Your plan is to gut the depth and commit even more cap to a 'core'. It's ridiculous.

Why do I care what the roster looks like without McDavid? We have McDavid. In time that depth around him will continue to improve through proper prospect development. It won't if you trade all of those prospects away. And it won't if you remove our ability to properly address organizational needs by limiting our cap flexibility.

Lucic, Sekera, Russell and Kassian will be moved on from in time. For now, they're Edmonton Oilers. Deal with it.

 

[Soundwave]

In you assessment if Karlsson goes down, the season's over. Your plan is to gut the depth and commit even more cap to a 'core'. It's ridiculous.

Why do I care what the roster looks like without McDavid? We have McDavid. In time that depth around him will continue to improve through proper prospect development. It won't if you trade all of those prospects away. And it won't if you remove our ability to properly address organizational needs by limiting our cap flexibility.

Lucic, Sekera, Russell and Kassian will be moved on from in time. For now, they're Edmonton Oilers. Deal with it.

McDavid has a far higher chance of winning a Cup with Karlsson instead of Klefbom or Nurse + Puljujarvi. That's also pretty much a damn fact.

If Lucic/Sekera/Russell/Kassian/Strome are not really part of the long term plan then why be so attached to this core group anyway? They're garbage, replace and dump them out as time goes on.

 

[belair]

Well, I'm not arguing for that course of action. Simply pointing out the Oilers' current lack of high end talent outside of Mcdavid and (arguably) Draisaitl is quite likely to hold them back from becoming a truly great team. They need to find a diamond out of the last couple of drafts, clear out some of the godawful contracts and hope lightning strikes.

Sure, I guess. I'm just saying when you look at a team like Chicago, they turn rocks into diamonds. A guy like Brent Seabrook would've been a decent albeit forgettable player in a average organization. Even a guy like Duncan Keith doesn't necessarily turn into a Norris winner without the right supporting cast.

Commit to prospect development, build the right group and lightning does strike.

 

[belair]

McDavid has a far higher chance of winning a Cup with Karlsson instead of Klefbom or Nurse + Puljujarvi. That's also pretty much a damn fact.

Why aren't you getting this? What else is on the team? You're looking at two or three players involved in a trade. The entire team is responsible for winning, not one or two guys.

Darnell Nurse and Jesse Puljujarvi cost the Oilers about $6m a year over the next few. Next season Erik Karlsson alone will cost double that. Then you'll have to replace a RW slot in the top six via FA, which likely costs even more salary commitment. We're not even going to look at the fact that one of Adam Larsson or Even Bouchard gets locked into a bottom pairing slot long-term.

Trading for Karlsson lacks all logic.

If Lucic/Sekera/Russell/Kassian/Strome are not really part of the long term plan then why be so attached to this core group anyway? They're garbage, replace and dump them out as time goes on.

Who is saying they're not going to? You are. Things happen over time. For every team, building a Cup contender is a process that includes carrying players who aren't part of their 'core group'. Some of them are veterans who fill the void and help the development of young players. Matt Hendricks was the prime example of that.

 

[Soundwave]

Why aren't you getting this? What else is on the team? You're looking at two or three players involved in a trade. The entire team is responsible for winning, not one or two guys.

Darnell Nurse and Jesse Puljujarvi cost the Oilers about $6m a year over the next few. Next season Erik Karlsson alone will cost double that. Then you'll have to replace a RW slot in the top six via FA, which likely costs even more salary commitment. We're not even going to look at the fact that one of Adam Larsson or Even Bouchard gets locked into a bottom pairing slot long-term.

Trading for Karlsson lacks all logic.

No they won't anyway, Nurse will require $5 mill long term, if Puljujarvi isn't a total bust next year, he's going to need $3 million or so too.

We're also sitting on salary like Lucic + Sekera being $11.5 million ... lol. This is Karlsson's entire extension likely right there.

This isn't a great core, gut it if need be. You can find supplemental players at a fraction of the cost of what some of these guys bring to the table.

 

[Soul8]

What did stauffer say exactly about moving out 2 forwards?

 

[Ck1]

If karlsson wants to play with mcdavid then the smart thing would be to wait for him to hit free agency. And we won't have to gut our team.next yr Russell and sekera can be moved freeing up some cap space to possibly aquire him

 

[Soundwave]

If karlsson wants to play with mcdavid then the smart thing would be to wait for him to hit free agency. And we won't have to gut our team.next yr Russell and sekera can be moved freeing up some cap space to possibly aquire him

He's going to have too many options next summer as a UFA, I can't see him choosing Edmonton in that context. Get him now and get him inked to an 11.5 extension if you can during the season.

 

[Little Fury]

Sure, I guess. I'm just saying when you look at a team like Chicago, they turn rocks into diamonds. A guy like Brent Seabrook would've been a decent albeit forgettable player in a average organization. Even a guy like Duncan Keith doesn't necessarily turn into a Norris winner without the right supporting cast.

Commit to prospect development, build the right group and lightning does strike.

It helps when you're picking from the cream of the crop but the organization that is still floundering around after picking in the top 10 8 times in the last 9 years doesn't inspire confidence. Nothing to do but wait and hope they can dump some of the dead weight next season.

 

[rambo97]

What a gong show the Sens are....anyways grabbed this off there board: "They just said on TSN 1200 that Karlsson was due at an event today but cancelled last minute because he had to go to Toronto for business. His agent is in Toronto"

The team that is acquiring Karlsson is probably trying to work out an extensions with Karlsson and his agent....guessing EK is moved today or tomorrow

 

[joestevens29]

What a gong show the Sens are....anyways grabbed this off there board: "They just said on TSN 1200 that Karlsson was due at an event today but cancelled last minute because he had to go to Toronto for business. His agent is in Toronto"

The team that is acquiring Karlsson is probably trying to work out an extensions with Karlsson and his agent....guessing EK is moved today or tomorrow

Etierh that or he didn't want to go through the awkward hand shake that Patches did with Molson. I haven't heard what Melnyk said, but I see all sorts of posts on social media that suggests they are blowing it up and Karlsson is gone.

 

[joestevens29]

Had no idea Jokinen signed PTO with DET. Guy played for 4 teams last year, not sure why he doesn't just go back home and play.

 

[rambo97]

Etierh that or he didn't want to go through the awkward hand shake that Patches did with Molson. I haven't heard what Melnyk said, but I see all sorts of posts on social media that suggests they are blowing it up and Karlsson is gone.

Melynk said that the Sens are rebuilding and he only expects 7 veteran Sens to return next year and expects they will have 15 (maybe 16) new players, rookies, etc.

“That’s what our rebuild is going to be. This coming year, we’re going to have 10 out of the 22 players [that] are going to be new – meaning they are either rookies or maybe they played under 10 games last year,” explained Melnyk. “And then the following year, it’s going to go up to 15 of the 22 – maybe 16. So that’s a total turnover – which is what exactly should be in a rebuild.”
https://www.tsn.ca/melnyk-senators-roster-overhaul-imminent-1.1170964

I know we have cap issues but it'd be nice if we could get EK from them. Maybe with Sekera's actual salary going down and his entire salary (potentially) being paid by insurance this year he could be of interest to the Sens. They will need to reach the cap floor and what better way then players on LTIR or ones with higher cap hits then actual salary. Has to be appealing to budget teams like the Sens

 

[nhlisajoke]

Rangers have acquired right D Adam McQuaid from B's in exchange for Kampfer, fourth-rounder

 

[joestevens29]

Wonder what Boston is open up space for. Or just saw an opening to get rid of close to 3mil and took advantage of it?

 

[soothsayer]

Wonder what Boston is open up space for. Or just saw an opening to get rid of close to 3mil and took advantage of it?

I'd say they are making room for potential bonuses. They've got some guys coming up who could hurt them cap-wise with their performance. Of course, maybe they are gearing up for a bigger trade. Ottawa would be more than happy to take one of McAvoy or Carlo. Tough sell for Boston on those guys, though.

 

[oljimmy]

Karlsson will go south. Call me a pessimist but Canadian teams rarely, if EVER trade major assets between one another. Imagine how much better both MTL and EDM would be right now if they'd just done Hall for Subban straight up. But that can't happen, CDN franchises rarely if ever cooperate and usually ship their talent south. Go ahead and look at Notable trades in hockey history - NHL Trade Tracker and try to find a major trade between CDN franchises. It almost doesn't happen, and more often than not our country's franchises are sending the better players south. No idea why this is, and I'd love to see it change, but don't hold your breath folks.

 

[Frank the Tank]

Karlsson, like many superstars that have played in a Canadian market for an extended period of time, probably wants out of the more intense media spotlight. Markets like SJ, Vegas, TB, etc... are likely high on his list.

We have to face reality that Canadian markets will continue to be at a disadvantage in attracting free agents, especially without over-paying.