Proposal: Rumors and Proposals Thread: Chia's Quest For D and WINNING!

[Paralyzer008]

Fun fact:

The original Pronger trade ends up looking like this:

Pronger

for

Eberle, Smid, Ross, Lupul and Hamonic...

We actually got the pick that was used to take Hamonic in the Pronger deal.

We dealt "Hamonic" to the Islanders for Allan Rourke and a 3rd. We used the 3rd in the Penner offer sheet because it was actually our own 3rd.

 

[A91]

Maroon - McDavid - Eriksson
Ladd - RNH - Draisaitl
Pouliot - Bonino - Korpikoski
Hendricks - Letestu - Pak
Kassian

Sekera - Faulk
Klefbom - Savard
Nurse/Reinhart - Davdson
Fayne

Yak for a 3C like Bonino
Eberle + #31 for a David Savard, or a Hamonic type dman
Hall + 2017 1st for a Faulk, Pietrangelo type of defensemen

Acquiring two preferably RHD is what most of us agree needs to happen, but at the end of the day I think we go into 2016-17 with a top 6 looking something like

Sekera - Hamonic/Demers
Klefbom - Davidson
Reinhart/Nurse/Fayne

 

[vincent1999]

re: hopeful coach

Hall-Backes-Okposo
Lucic-McDavid-Eberle
Maroon-Draisaitl-Kassian
Hendricks-Letestu-Pakaranen/Korpikoski/Khaira

Sekera-xxxxx
Klefbom/Nurse-Hamonic
Davidson-Pardy/Gryba/Reinhart

Talbot
Brossoit

RNH+Yakupov+picks for XXXXX

Cap? What cap?!

Re: Hopeful Coach
Boy, where to start?
Firstly, no Canadian city, and a “northern/ outpost†one like an Edmonton to boot, is ever going to acquire in one fell swoop a haul like Backes/ Okposo/ Lucic/ and Hamonic??? Such a pipedream is a postulate of powerful inhaled fumes??? 3 modestly “big†UFAs signing in Edmonton, isn’t in the cards--- ever. And if the NY Islanders want a top 4 d-man in trade for Hamonic, well, we’re loosing either Nurse or Klefbom in the deal. It sounds like the Islanders are prepared to do a “lateral†move wrt Hamonic, so … henceforth, the Oilers defence won’t be improved in the exchange. Frankly, it’s a deal only for an NHL team that has a similarly skilled d-man that also wants to move, and not sure that there is any obvious candidate amongst the other 29 teams, otherwise it’s a deal that no one is likely to make, as to be a winner it needs to be a team rich in prospects/ picks/ forwards (which the Islanders don’t want in trade) and weak in terms of d-man such that the team can achieve a better balance in the resulting trading of assets.
Since (I think) Backes/ Okposo/ Lucic are all UFAs, I guess the trade is RNH/ Yakupov/ plus picks for Hamonic which doesn’t seem like a balanced trade for the Oilers, and improbable since the Islanders have apparently stated that they want a top 4 d-man in trade and not a basket of other commodities.
And how does Backes go from a 3rd line winger in St. Louis to a top line center on the Oilers, and it make the Oilers a competitive team???
Also, why is there so most value placed in replaceable “scrub†players like the Oilers bottom 6 forwards Hendricks, Letestu, and Korpikoshi who are uni-dimensional non-offensively skilled players and who would not be a solid part of a 3rd line on any of the playoff teams who would night in and night out eat us alive in terms of skill, offensive production, and/ or who show more grit/ aggression/ pounding ability.
eg 3rd line comparisons- Anaheim- Cogliano/ Horcoff/ Stewart; Chicago- Fleischmann/ Tervainen/ Weise; Dallas- Roussel/ Fatsa/ Hemsky; Florida- Purcell/ Grimaldi/ Hudler; LA- King/ Lecavalier/ Brown; Nashville- Wilson/ Fischer/ Arvidsson; NY R- E. Staal/ Hayes/ Fast; Pittsburgh- Kuhnhackl/ Cullen/ B. Bennett; San Jose- Karlsson/ Marleau/ Wingels; St. Louis- Schwartz/ Berglund/ Backes; TB- Paquette/ Filppula/ Callohan; Washington- Chimera/ Beagle/ T. Wilson, and even some non-playoff teams have more skill, size and/ or talent on their 3rd lines, such as Arizona- Domi/ Richardson/ Doan; Detroit- Nyquist/ Sheahan/ Tatar; Minnesota- Niederreiter/ Haula/ Pominville; Vancouver- Dorset/ Horvat/ Etem; or Winnipeg- Petan/ Burmistrov/ Armia
Also, defencemen like Pardy/ Gryba/ and Reinhart are pretty much waiver pick-ups. The Oilers defence is NHL bottom 3/ or lottery level. Poor/ inconsistent one on one coverage in the defensive end, poor/ inconsistent decision making, poor/ inconsistent first pass/ puck moving to the forwards, poor skating so lack of support to the forwards moving forward from the defensive end or pinches in the offensive end, nothing in the way of a shot presence from the point, and little ability to carry the puck forward on the power play or to support the forwards in the offensive end of the ice. For example, one reply a week or two ago on the Oilers HF site provided a whole range of stats wrt how often the best players on other teams had a defencemen contribute an assist to the points they produce. Crosby/ Kane et al had a defencemen contribute on 65% or so of their point production. For the Oilers, all the forwards Hall/ Eberle/ McDavid etc were around 30%. That is, production by Oiler forwards was basically most of the time without assistance or backup from the defence. Play going from the defence to the forwards is crap in the defensive end (pucks are sent around the boards at knee or waist height and arrive at the moment that the player is completely covered by an opposition defencemen etc), crap on transition (either in the players skates or behind enough that the forward has to slow down or stop and wait for the puck etc), and crap in the offensive zone (such that it’s dumped into a corner where the opposition is getting there with time to spare and puck recovery or a forecheck is a waste of time and effort). Who would want to want to play forward for the Edmonton Oilers, cos it’s an endless opportunity for failure. 5v5 schemes are basically most of the time 3v5. And guys like Pardy/ Gryba etc aren’t part of the solution for any team in the NHL (lottery 3, non-playoff, or playoff, and absolutely not on an elite team).
Then, Brossoit as a backup, please, he’s not ready, and he may never even ever be ready for the big show. I have seen zero out of him that suggests in can be more than a back-up in an absolute emergency situation- ie sickness or very short-term injury call-up. But … young goaltenders need time to develop, and rushing him in too early would be a mistake.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

Re: Hopeful Coach
Boy, where to start?
Firstly, no Canadian city, and a “northern/ outpost†one like an Edmonton to boot, is ever going to acquire in one fell swoop a haul like Backes/ Okposo/ Lucic/ and Hamonic??? Such a pipedream is a postulate of powerful inhaled fumes??? 3 modestly “big†UFAs signing in Edmonton, isn’t in the cards--- ever. And if the NY Islanders want a top 4 d-man in trade for Hamonic, well, we’re loosing either Nurse or Klefbom in the deal. It sounds like the Islanders are prepared to do a “lateral†move wrt Hamonic, so … henceforth, the Oilers defence won’t be improved in the exchange. Frankly, it’s a deal only for an NHL team that has a similarly skilled d-man that also wants to move, and not sure that there is any obvious candidate amongst the other 29 teams, otherwise it’s a deal that no one is likely to make, as to be a winner it needs to be a team rich in prospects/ picks/ forwards (which the Islanders don’t want in trade) and weak in terms of d-man such that the team can achieve a better balance in the resulting trading of assets.
Since (I think) Backes/ Okposo/ Lucic are all UFAs, I guess the trade is RNH/ Yakupov/ plus picks for Hamonic which doesn’t seem like a balanced trade for the Oilers, and improbable since the Islanders have apparently stated that they want a top 4 d-man in trade and not a basket of other commodities.
And how does Backes go from a 3rd line winger in St. Louis to a top line center on the Oilers, and it make the Oilers a competitive team???
Also, why is there so most value placed in replaceable “scrub†players like the Oilers bottom 6 forwards Hendricks, Letestu, and Korpikoshi who are uni-dimensional non-offensively skilled players and who would not be a solid part of a 3rd line on any of the playoff teams who would night in and night out eat us alive in terms of skill, offensive production, and/ or who show more grit/ aggression/ pounding ability.
eg 3rd line comparisons- Anaheim- Cogliano/ Horcoff/ Stewart; Chicago- Fleischmann/ Tervainen/ Weise; Dallas- Roussel/ Fatsa/ Hemsky; Florida- Purcell/ Grimaldi/ Hudler; LA- King/ Lecavalier/ Brown; Nashville- Wilson/ Fischer/ Arvidsson; NY R- E. Staal/ Hayes/ Fast; Pittsburgh- Kuhnhackl/ Cullen/ B. Bennett; San Jose- Karlsson/ Marleau/ Wingels; St. Louis- Schwartz/ Berglund/ Backes; TB- Paquette/ Filppula/ Callohan; Washington- Chimera/ Beagle/ T. Wilson, and even some non-playoff teams have more skill, size and/ or talent on their 3rd lines, such as Arizona- Domi/ Richardson/ Doan; Detroit- Nyquist/ Sheahan/ Tatar; Minnesota- Niederreiter/ Haula/ Pominville; Vancouver- Dorset/ Horvat/ Etem; or Winnipeg- Petan/ Burmistrov/ Armia
Also, defencemen like Pardy/ Gryba/ and Reinhart are pretty much waiver pick-ups. The Oilers defence is NHL bottom 3/ or lottery level. Poor/ inconsistent one on one coverage in the defensive end, poor/ inconsistent decision making, poor/ inconsistent first pass/ puck moving to the forwards, poor skating so lack of support to the forwards moving forward from the defensive end or pinches in the offensive end, nothing in the way of a shot presence from the point, and little ability to carry the puck forward on the power play or to support the forwards in the offensive end of the ice. For example, one reply a week or two ago on the Oilers HF site provided a whole range of stats wrt how often the best players on other teams had a defencemen contribute an assist to the points they produce. Crosby/ Kane et al had a defencemen contribute on 65% or so of their point production. For the Oilers, all the forwards Hall/ Eberle/ McDavid etc were around 30%. That is, production by Oiler forwards was basically most of the time without assistance or backup from the defence. Play going from the defence to the forwards is crap in the defensive end (pucks are sent around the boards at knee or waist height and arrive at the moment that the player is completely covered by an opposition defencemen etc), crap on transition (either in the players skates or behind enough that the forward has to slow down or stop and wait for the puck etc), and crap in the offensive zone (such that it’s dumped into a corner where the opposition is getting there with time to spare and puck recovery or a forecheck is a waste of time and effort). Who would want to want to play forward for the Edmonton Oilers, cos it’s an endless opportunity for failure. 5v5 schemes are basically most of the time 3v5. And guys like Pardy/ Gryba etc aren’t part of the solution for any team in the NHL (lottery 3, non-playoff, or playoff, and absolutely not on an elite team).
Then, Brossoit as a backup, please, he’s not ready, and he may never even ever be ready for the big show. I have seen zero out of him that suggests in can be more than a back-up in an absolute emergency situation- ie sickness or very short-term injury call-up. But … young goaltenders need time to develop, and rushing him in too early would be a mistake.

Word of advice for the future, break up your post. Most of us, myself included look at a cluster like that (which may be filled with useful thoughts/information) and go "Nope!"

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

Anyone else catch Eberle's post game last night. I'm excited.. hopefully.. for the new building. I wonder if Chiarelli has been honest with him that he could be traded.

 

[OilerFan4Life]

Backes? No thanks.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Fun fact:

The original Pronger trade ends up looking like this:

Pronger

for

Eberle, Smid, Ross, Lupul and Hamonic...

We actually got the pick that was used to take Hamonic in the Pronger deal.

We dealt "Hamonic" to the Islanders for Allan Rourke and a 3rd. We used the 3rd in the Penner offer sheet because it was actually our own 3rd.

Funny enough, the main pick there was used on Myers.

Hmm I didn't think Penner offersheet was that bad, but losing both Myers and Hamonic makes it sting a bit.


Though at the time this team's defence wasn't that bad

Smid/Grebeshkov-Visnovsky/Pitkainen
Souray-Gilbert

Honestly how they managed to F that up is still a wonder to me... Say what you will, but I still think there was a lot of good to those late 2000 teams, coaching and management just lost control of the team, and let it go full toxic.

 

[joestevens29]

Funny enough, the main pick there was used on Myers.

Hmm I didn't think Penner offersheet was that bad, but losing both Myers and Hamonic makes it sting a bit.


Though at the time this team's defence wasn't that bad

Smid/Grebeshkov-Visnovsky/Pitkainen
Souray-Gilbert

Honestly how they managed to F that up is still a wonder to me... Say what you will, but I still think there was a lot of good to those late 2000 teams, coaching and management just lost control of the team, and let it go full toxic.

What happened is 3 of those guys wanted out

 

[Roof Daddy]

Maroon - McDavid - Eriksson
Ladd - RNH - Draisaitl
Pouliot - Bonino - Korpikoski
Hendricks - Letestu - Pak
Kassian

Sekera - Faulk
Klefbom - Savard
Nurse/Reinhart - Davdson
Fayne

Yak for a 3C like Bonino
Eberle + #31 for a David Savard, or a Hamonic type dman
Hall + 2017 1st for a Faulk, Pietrangelo type of defensemen

Acquiring two preferably RHD is what most of us agree needs to happen, but at the end of the day I think we go into 2016-17 with a top 6 looking something like

Sekera - Hamonic/Demers
Klefbom - Davidson
Reinhart/Nurse/Fayne

I'd be pleased with a lineup like this. The only issue being it would be tough to imagine landing 2 of the premiere UFA wingers without overpaying for both. Both will want term, and neither will want less than 5.5 per. We've got the space right now, I'd just be leery of long-term ramifications.

My tweaks:

(Assuming we land a top 2 pick)
1st OA + Eberle + Nurse for Faulk
2nd OA + Nuge + Nurse for Faulk

Hall for Hamonic + Lee

Yak for Sheahan

Sign Ladd (6 yrs, 33 mil)

 

[suddeninterest]

Is it bad that my heart tells me that in terms of Hall, RNH, Ebs and Yak, Yakupov should be the last one they trade. I know that logically it doesn't make sense but still.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

What happened is 3 of those guys wanted out

Yes, but I'd argue that a lot of that was due to the atmosphere around the team.


I mean...

Souray signed here as a FA
Vishnovsky waived his NTC to come here
Smid was happy here
Grebeshkov was willing to resign here a few years later, so how much could he have hated it?
Plus I'm yet to hear Gilbert speak ill of the team


If this team had actually been well managed at the time, then I think don't think any trade request come. Instead this team let its favourites run wild. We're still seeing the fall out of this today. We b***h about the professionalism and lack of guidance for Hall, RNH, Eberle, and Yak; but we can trace that back through the years, and to cases like Brule, POS, Nilsson, Gagner, Coglano, Peckham, MA Pouliot...


Hmm a defence of in 2010/11...

Grebeshkov-Visnovsky
Smid-Gilbert
Souray-Petry

*le sigh*

 

[Faelko]

Word of advice for the future, break up your post. Most of us, myself included look at a cluster like that (which may be filled with useful thoughts/information) and go "Nope!"

Exactly what I did...lol

 

[joestevens29]

Yes, but I'd argue that a lot of that was due to the atmosphere around the team.


I mean...

Souray signed here as a FA
Vishnovsky waived his NTC to come here
Smid was happy here
Grebeshkov was willing to resign here a few years later, so how much could he have hated it?
Plus I'm yet to hear Gilbert speak ill of the team


If this team had actually been well managed at the time, then I think don't think any trade request come.


Grebeshkov-Visnovsky
Smid-Gilbert
Souray-Petry

*le sigh*

Lubo never waived. His clause didn't kick in.

Pitkanen was just weird and akward from day 1.

Souray yes, there was an issue.

Smid by the time we dealt him was junk. He's really a dime a dozen guy when we dealt him.

Grebs was getting pretty bad and went back to Russia. I believe we weren't going to qualify him because it would've cost too much anyway.

Gilbert is really the only guy that they didn't need to move.

The real killer was Whitney. We made a solid trade in the Lubo deal, something I don't think we did well enough with Pitkanen. But Whitney having foot issues was essentially the final straw for this club. Just simply not being able to trade a guy who was your #1 for anything of value killed us.

I do think we got lucky with Pitkanen turning into POS as we could've essentially lost UFA Cole for nothing. But again POS just didn't turn out. I do however think the first mistake with Pitkanen was moving him for Cole. But this was also in a time where we just thought we'd be okay because we had young guys in Gilbert, Smid, Greene to go with a vet in Souray. We had the same situation at center, where it was just all assumed that someone would turn into a superstar and save the day.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

Is it bad that my heart tells me that in terms of Hall, RNH, Ebs and Yak, Yakupov should be the last one they trade. I know that logically it doesn't make sense but still.

The only thing about Yakupov, is we could be getting 30 cents on the dollar.

But this team will be better without him.

 

[A91]

I'd be pleased with a lineup like this. The only issue being it would be tough to imagine landing 2 of the premiere UFA wingers without overpaying for both. Both will want term, and neither will want less than 5.5 per. We've got the space right now, I'd just be leery of long-term ramifications.

My tweaks:

(Assuming we land a top 2 pick)
1st OA + Eberle + Nurse for Faulk
2nd OA + Nuge + Nurse for Faulk

Hall for Hamonic + Lee

Yak for Sheahan

Sign Ladd (6 yrs, 33 mil)

Your tweaks are probably a little more realistic. For some reason my gut tells me Faulk will become available this summer, and CAR looks pretty well off at D currently. Their offensive pool however is one of the worst in the league. If we could land Faulk (even at an overpay) that would be absolutely huge for this organization.

Landing two of the top forwards is obviously very tough to do, but not impossible. With the likes of Stamkos, Staal, Okposo, Lucic, Backes, Boedker, even Hudler and Brouwer all testing the market if we get to guys like Ladd and Eriksson early on it could be done. Lots of quality in the forward UFA's this offseason. Could also reduce some of the cost.
If we could sign both for 5-6 years at 5.5 million I personally do it without much hesitation tbh.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

The only thing about Yakupov, is we could be getting 30 cents on the dollar.

But this team will be better without him.

I think that's less the reality and more of the narrative being put out by certain Media types in town.

I don't see the Oilers giving him away, because if they were planning to do so, it would have happened already.

Edit: I'm not suggesting not moving Yakupov, nor am I suggesting he's a major impact player on this team, just the Narrative around him gets to be a bit much.

 

[McJadeddog]

so i made the mistake of listening to dregor this morning on TSN, i usually avoid this guy like the plague, as he doesn't know his arse from a hole in the ground when it comes to the oilers

but i simply couldn't let this one go, lol.... he said that the oilers would have to ADD to a klefbom for hamonic trade! lol, wow.... not only is klefbom likely the better player straight up right now, he is a younger, bigger, and on a much better, longer contract

to call this man stupid would be a disservice to all the other stupid people in the world... how is he on TV? how does he still have a job? lol, its crazy

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

so i made the mistake of listening to dregor this morning on TSN, i usually avoid this guy like the plague, as he doesn't know his arse from a hole in the ground when it comes to the oilers

but i simply couldn't let this one go, lol.... he said that the oilers would have to ADD to a klefbom for hamonic trade! lol, wow.... not only is klefbom likely the better player straight up right now, he is a younger, bigger, and on a much better, longer contract

to call this man stupid would be a disservice to all the other stupid people in the world... how is he on TV? how does he still have a job? lol, its crazy

I find he's like a politician in a sense, he's not there to tell you anything, he's there go SAY A lot without telling you anything at all.

He's saying this about Klef/Ham because that's the thing to say right now. He'll pretend he didn't say it in 2 months when the rumour is more realistic, when the Oilers add defensemen without "Klef +" and act like he was expecting it all along.

He had a job, because of good hair, good work on TV, the right friends and some contacts.

Edit: He's Adam Shefter(sp) in the NHL where the League isn't handing them things to tell everyone.

 

[A91]

so i made the mistake of listening to dregor this morning on TSN, i usually avoid this guy like the plague, as he doesn't know his arse from a hole in the ground when it comes to the oilers

but i simply couldn't let this one go, lol.... he said that the oilers would have to ADD to a klefbom for hamonic trade! lol, wow.... not only is klefbom likely the better player straight up right now, he is a younger, bigger, and on a much better, longer contract

to call this man stupid would be a disservice to all the other stupid people in the world... how is he on TV? how does he still have a job? lol, its crazy

In regard to Chiarelli acquiring Hamonic: "So guess what. Chiarelli is going to have to bite down hard here. Is it Oscar Klefbom? I think it is. Is that going to be enough? I don’t think it is going to be enough. So what other piece is it going to take to acquire that defensemen."

http://www.todaysslapshot.com/from-the-ice/sabres-recall-forwards-rodrigues-schneider/

Lol what a joke this guy is, stopped listening to him when he mentioned that the leafs wouldn't even trade Reimer for Yak a few years back, when Reimer was clearly the backup to Bernier. Snow would be ecstatic if Hamonic returned Klefbom at this point in time,

 

[Beerfish]

so i made the mistake of listening to dregor this morning on TSN, i usually avoid this guy like the plague, as he doesn't know his arse from a hole in the ground when it comes to the oilers

but i simply couldn't let this one go, lol.... he said that the oilers would have to ADD to a klefbom for hamonic trade! lol, wow.... not only is klefbom likely the better player straight up right now, he is a younger, bigger, and on a much better, longer contract

to call this man stupid would be a disservice to all the other stupid people in the world... how is he on TV? how does he still have a job? lol, its crazy

Any deal that involves kelfbom or Davidson would have to include a bonified #1 dman, otherwise it is a net zero effect on this team imo so I would be totally against trading kelfbom in that deal.

However, I disagree with a couple things you said, Hamonic is the better player right now and has proved that long term as opposed to s very short series of games that Klefbom has displayed.

Hamonic has the better contract.

 

[McJadeddog]

In regard to Chiarelli acquiring Hamonic: "So guess what. Chiarelli is going to have to bite down hard here. Is it Oscar Klefbom? I think it is. Is that going to be enough? I don’t think it is going to be enough. So what other piece is it going to take to acquire that defensemen."

http://www.todaysslapshot.com/from-the-ice/sabres-recall-forwards-rodrigues-schneider/

Lol what a joke this guy is, stopped listening to him when he mentioned that the leafs wouldn't even trade Reimer for Yak a few years back, when Reimer was clearly the backup to Bernier. Snow would be ecstatic if Hamonic returned Klefbom at this point in time,

"esctatic" is a huge understatement... he would drive hamonic to the airport personally, and as fast as possible, lol... what an idiot dreger is, just more confirmation to never listen to this tool

 

[jukon]

I'd be pleased with a lineup like this. The only issue being it would be tough to imagine landing 2 of the premiere UFA wingers without overpaying for both. Both will want term, and neither will want less than 5.5 per. We've got the space right now, I'd just be leery of long-term ramifications.

My tweaks:

(Assuming we land a top 2 pick)
1st OA + Eberle + Nurse for Faulk
2nd OA + Nuge + Nurse for Faulk

Hall for Hamonic + Lee

Yak for Sheahan

Sign Ladd (6 yrs, 33 mil)

That might be the price for Faulk on HFB, but in reality I wouldn't be surprised if he or another great young Dman is acquired for less. Don't underestimate the power of Chia.

 

[oXo Cube]

The Isles are free to set whatever price they want of course, but if they seriously think Klefbom+ is a realistic ask they better hope Hamonic is OK with playing for them again next season.

Maybe he is. I don't know the guy.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

I've said it before and I will say it again, if the asking Price for Travis Hamonic is Oscar Klefbom + (or +++) you look else where and let the Islanders deal with that situation until it become untenable for them.

 

[Mr Positive]

Backes? No thanks.

If not Backes, I hope we do go after a real 3C that embodies the checking line role. If we put RNH or Draisaitl there, they will languish there with few points. RNH probably gets injured there. I don't want Letestu or Lander there either.

But as someone in favour of adding Backes, I will just say that the Blues are the best team in the west and Backes is a big reason for that. He's their workhorse center. Leads in TOI and faceoffs, and is a physical presence that takes tough assignments. There's a good chance a couple expensive forwards are leaving this offseason anyway, so we're probably going to have the cap space