Proposal: Rumors and Proposals Thread: Chia's Quest For D and WINNING!

[ManofSteel55]

I'm wondering what you guys think here.

Let's say we make a deal with the Isles for Hamonic. Assume Hall for Hamonic is the base, Isles add obviously. Mid round pick + a prospect.

What are your thoughts on Josh Ho-Sang? Him and McDavid were minor midget teammates in the GTHL together IIRC.

Seen Ho-Sang play last summer live at the World Junior showcase during the summer. Uber talented, confident with lots of upside. Comes with baggage and has been a bit of a problem child for the Isles. Start him in Bakersfield and make him earn everything he gets. Could be worth taking back as the prospect.

I don't think the way to fix the locker room is to bring in an entitled brat like Ho Sang.

I also think we should be aiming higher for an add on piece in any Hall - Hamonic deal. Anders Lee and a 2nd maybe.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Fact is, without Hall our LW depth is garbage, and without Eberle/Yak our RW depth is garbage...

We can add depth wingers easily enough.

 

[longtimeoilfan]

Except Lucic is playing top unit PP....

It's like when people see lines they just assume "1, 2, 3" instead of "1A, 1B, 1C"

Those would be mixed and matched easily. Pouliot would be the "3rd line LW" if you put them on a depth chart, those are the lines I assembled to start.

I read a report that Lucic and the Kings have been discussing a contract for a while now, but are far apart on the details. It also mentioned that they are planning on suspending talks once the play offs start - so as not to make them a distraction. Maybe Lucic remaining a King isn't as guaranteed as some make it out to be. I am still holding out hope he becomes an Oiler. Pouliot on the 3rd line is fine with me... better than fine, I like the depth of Lucic, Hall, Pouliot down the LW.

Lucic - McDavid - ?????
Hall - Draisaitl - ?????
Pouliot - ????? - ?????

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Fact is, without Hall our LW depth is garbage, and without Eberle/Yak our RW depth is garbage...

Have a look at some successful teams' winger depths. They're not that hard to replicate. All you have to look at is a team like Dallas to see how much relevance winger depth is compared to all the other aspects of building a winning team. They have one elite winger and that's it.

 

[McJadeddog]

Hamonic is 100% not bring back Hall. That is Isle fan fantasy, nothing more. If Hall is moving the D coming back would have to be much better.

yeah, without question

something like eberle for hamonic straight up might even be a bit of an overpay from our side... hamonic is an average #2/3 guy, similar to sekera.... he wouldn't even be the best dman on our team, which would still remain klefbom

 

[soothsayer]

I read a report that Lucic and the Kings have been discussing a contract for a while now, but are far apart on the details. It also mentioned that they are planning on suspending talks once the play offs start - so as not to make them a distraction. Maybe Lucic remaining a King isn't as guaranteed as some make it out to be. I am still holding out hope he becomes an Oiler. Pouliot on the 3rd line is fine with me... better than fine, I like the depth of Lucic, Hall, Pouliot down the LW.

Lucic - McDavid - ?????
Hall - Draisaitl - ?????
Pouliot - ????? - ?????

Should be interesting to see what whacky scheme Lombardi comes up with this time to free up cap space for another big-ticket player.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Should be interesting to see what whacky scheme Lombardi comes up with this time to free up cap space for another big-ticket player.

It's simple. Look at your roster, find an overpaid role player, and dream up ways you can weasel out of their contracts. Looking at you, Dustin Brown.

 

[joestevens29]

Should be interesting to see what whacky scheme Lombardi comes up with this time to free up cap space for another big-ticket player.

I still don't blame him for anything. It's all on the NHL for allowing this **** to happen.

However if I'm DL, I'm trying like a dog to move Brown and Gaborik. Greene as well, but his salary is some what workable. Now is the time for DL to be giving up assets and getting rid of those two others though.

 

[Oilrider]

What I'm saying is, as much as we need defense, we also need offense. We can't trade all of these guys for D. We should start looking at veteran forwards we can bring in.

Gotta think one of Marleau/Thornton will be made available. I'd love to bring one of those guys in.

NMC means they will never come here. The issues that took place there and stripping the C and everything would probably mean they wouldn't want to play for McC again any time soon.

I doubt they trade everyone for D anyway. Probably one big name guy will go (RNH or Eberle), along with Yakupov. We have plenty of scoring ability, it's everything else that is lacking. I bet we will look worse on paper for our Offense next year, but score more goals. If we are battling harder, backchecking, better on D, turning the puck over less, and then feeding those skill guys, we will do well. Also, keeping pucks out of our net will mean more wins regardless of our own goals.

 

[Roof Daddy]

No he doesn't. Similar zone starts, similar QoC, plays more minutes with less PP time and more PK time than both.

Hamonic is undoubtedly their best defenceman. Always gets the toughest match ups. I think some people on this board get too caught up in the offensive numbers without looking at the opportunity. If we acquired him, he would be our top PP point shot option. The only reason he doesn't get the same opportunity is that a booming shot is the one (and only) thing Jonny Rocket can do better than him. They also have Pulock to fill a 2nd unit RH shot role, so it's unlikely Hamonic ever sees big numbers with the Isles.

He could be a 40 point guy here, while playing stellar D. That would be a true top pairing guy. Honestly, I'd take that alone for a guy like Hall. If we can squeeze an add like Lee out of them, it's a big win.

Some people need to come to a realization regarding Hamonic:

1) We aren't the only team looking to trade for him.
2) The Islanders don't have to trade him.
3) Hall is probably the only (IMO) expendable piece that is going to spark their interest.

I don't want any Vatanen/Demers half ass solutions, I want a guy that can go shift for shift with a big guy like Thornton/Kopitar, or a water bug like Gaudreau/Kane. Hamonic is that type of shutdown defender.

 

[Young Lions*]

Some people need to come to a realization regarding Hamonic:

1) We aren't the only team looking to trade for him.
2) The Islanders don't have to trade him.
3) Hall is probably the only (IMO) expendable piece that is going to spark their interest.

1) There's only a handful of teams he's interested in, no?
2) Has he withdrawn his trade request?
3) Trading Hall for improvements on D is self-defeating.

 

[Oilrider]

Hamonic is undoubtedly their best defenceman. Always gets the toughest match ups. I think some people on this board get too caught up in the offensive numbers without looking at the opportunity. If we acquired him, he would be our top PP point shot option. The only reason he doesn't get the same opportunity is that a booming shot is the one (and only) thing Jonny Rocket can do better than him. They also have Pulock to fill a 2nd unit RH shot role, so it's unlikely Hamonic ever sees big numbers with the Isles.

He could be a 40 point guy here, while playing stellar D. That would be a true top pairing guy. Honestly, I'd take that alone for a guy like Hall. If we can squeeze an add like Lee out of them, it's a big win.

Some people need to come to a realization regarding Hamonic:

1) We aren't the only team looking to trade for him.
2) The Islanders don't have to trade him.
3) Hall is probably the only (IMO) expendable piece that is going to spark their interest.

I don't want any Vatanen/Demers half ass solutions, I want a guy that can go shift for shift with a big guy like Thornton/Kopitar, or a water bug like Gaudreau/Kane. Hamonic is that type of shutdown defender.

I want both. Hamonic can be a shut down guy, Vatanen can be the puck mover. We need more than one guy added on D. Whether its trading a core guy, picks, prospects, or a FA signing, I don't care, we just need to finally make it happen.

 

[MessierII]

I want both. Hamonic can be a shut down guy, Vatanen can be the puck mover. We need more than one guy added on D. Whether its trading a core guy, picks, prospects, or a FA signing, I don't care, we just need to finally make it happen.

It's the most realistic solution this summer. Unless a true top 2 guy becomes available I'd try and pry both those guys.

 

[Young Lions*]

Have a look at some successful teams' winger depths. They're not that hard to replicate. All you have to look at is a team like Dallas to see how much relevance winger depth is compared to all the other aspects of building a winning team. They have one elite winger and that's it.

And if we trade Hall, we have zero elite wingers.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Hamonic is undoubtedly their best defenceman. Always gets the toughest match ups. I think some people on this board get too caught up in the offensive numbers without looking at the opportunity. If we acquired him, he would be our top PP point shot option. The only reason he doesn't get the same opportunity is that a booming shot is the one (and only) thing Jonny Rocket can do better than him. They also have Pulock to fill a 2nd unit RH shot role, so it's unlikely Hamonic ever sees big numbers with the Isles.

He could be a 40 point guy here, while playing stellar D. That would be a true top pairing guy. Honestly, I'd take that alone for a guy like Hall. If we can squeeze an add like Lee out of them, it's a big win.

Some people need to come to a realization regarding Hamonic:

1) We aren't the only team looking to trade for him.
2) The Islanders don't have to trade him.
3) Hall is probably the only (IMO) expendable piece that is going to spark their interest.

I don't want any Vatanen/Demers half ass solutions, I want a guy that can go shift for shift with a big guy like Thornton/Kopitar, or a water bug like Gaudreau/Kane. Hamonic is that type of shutdown defender.

The same arguement could be applied to Sekera in regards to offencive production, hell Andrej even has a 40 point season to his name. But even with all that I'd still want someone better than Sekera being my go to PP defenceman, its the same with Hamonic.

Hamonic is a good defenceman, but he's not a solution to this team offencive blackhole that is its blueline. A #2 shutdown defenceman with injury concerns doesn't return an allstar winger, regardless of how good his contract is.

 

[Young Lions*]

The same arguement could be applied to Sekera in regards to offencive production, hell Andrej even has a 40 point season to his name. But even with all that I'd still want someone better than Sekera being my go to PP defenceman, its the same with Hamonic.

Hamonic is a good defenceman, but he's not a solution to this team offencive blackhole that is its blueline. A #2 shutdown defenceman with injury concerns doesn't return an allstar winger, regardless of how good his contract is.

Especially when he's asked to be traded and has a limited list of destinations.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

And if we trade Hall, we have zero elite wingers.

If the returns worth it, I'd move Hall.

The top 6 becomes

Maroon-McDavid-Eberle
Pouliot-RNH-Draisaitl (or reversed with RNH on wing)


This team has too many top 6 or bust types. I'd have zero problem pairing Matthews and Hall together (or RNH and Laine/Puljujärvi) and going big game hunting. In fact I'd prefer that to just moving Hall or RNH by themselves.

This team's got the luxury of not needing that top pick, so don't try and juggle the roster just so all the cooks get a chance in the kitchen. That's how this team ending up in the crap situation they're in now with Yakupov, and previously Hemsky and Perron.

 

[MessierII]

And if we trade Hall, we have zero elite wingers.

There's two projected to go top 3 in this years draft who both haven't been stripped of all character by years of losing.

 

[Jet Walters]

The same arguement could be applied to Sekera in regards to offencive production, hell Andrej even has a 40 point season to his name. But even with all that I'd still want someone better than Sekera being my go to PP defenceman, its the same with Hamonic.

Hamonic is a good defenceman, but he's not a solution to this team offencive blackhole that is its blueline. A #2 shutdown defenceman with injury concerns doesn't return an allstar winger, regardless of how good his contract is.

Hamonic is not a solution to the offensive production from defensemen on the PP, but he is definitely a step in the right direction in all other situations. He is going to prevent goals against and his point totals are great if you look at non PP situations. He has more points than Shattenkirk, Faulk, and Vatanen if you remove PP points from their respective totals this year. Last year he was even better and put up more non PP points than any Oilers defenseman has since Souray in 08/09.

Hamonic and a point producer on the PP like Vatanen would transform the Oilers back end.

As for trading Hall for him, I would prefer a different deal, but if a Lee or Nelson came back with him I would be fine with that. As long as the Oilers keep McDavid, one of RNH/Drai, and one of Hall/Eberle/2016 1st I'm not worried at all about filling out the top 6. In fact with a competent blueline and some wingers who get in the dirty areas, offensive production will go up significantly and goals against will go down. The Oilers have given up 8 more PP goals than they have scored. That is a small percentage of the -47 total goal differential they are sporting. 5 vs 5 play has been the biggest problem for the last 7 years.

 

[Young Lions*]

There's two projected to go top 3 in this years draft who both haven't been stripped of all character by years of losing.

Leaving aside the fact that plugging in another teenager and expecting them to solve our problems is simply repeating the mistakes of the past, we've established that your views regarding Hall are not to be taken seriously.

 

[Roof Daddy]

I want both. Hamonic can be a shut down guy, Vatanen can be the puck mover. We need more than one guy added on D. Whether its trading a core guy, picks, prospects, or a FA signing, I don't care, we just need to finally make it happen.

I'm not a big fan of Vatanen, but maybe I haven't watched him close enough. I guess the big question remains, what's the ask from the Duck's end? He also seems to play a bit of a sheltered role. Are we acquiring him to play to his strengths (soft 5v5 minutes and ample PP time), or are we trying to miscast him much like we did with Jultz (not blaming everything on misusage, but it didn't help)?

The same arguement could be applied to Sekera in regards to offencive production, hell Andrej even has a 40 point season to his name. But even with all that I'd still want someone better than Sekera being my go to PP defenceman, its the same with Hamonic.

Hamonic is a good defenceman, but he's not a solution to this team offencive blackhole that is its blueline. A #2 shutdown defenceman with injury concerns doesn't return an allstar winger, regardless of how good his contract is.

I get your point and I can't necessarily argue it, but I still think Hamonic has more to offer offensively than the numbers suggest. Again, just my opinion, but when the guy was given a larger PP role he put up respectable numbers (30+ points).

As to your 2nd point, I agree that Hall holds greater value, but I don't think it's a massive gap. If we got Hamonic + Lee I'd be ecstatic. Lee is very underrated. Lee-Draisaitl-Nuge would be a fine 2nd line IMO (especially with an improved D corps).

 

[Oilrider]

I don't think Vatanen would be misused here, at least in this scenario we are talking about where we will also have the likes of Klefbom, Hamonic, Sekera, not to mention Davidson if he can keep it up, and (a hopefully improving) Nurse. We would finally have depth on the blueline.

That said, I should also mention that at least in my own opinion, we don't need to be deadset on any particular player, but we need something like these two options, and they at least appear to be somewhat realistic. Better than talking about how we are going to trade for Webber...

At the end of the day, this team badly needs more balance.

 

[Roof Daddy]

1) There's only a handful of teams he's interested in, no?
2) Has he withdrawn his trade request?
3) Trading Hall for improvements on D is self-defeating.

1) So that would mean we aren't the only team, right?
2) No, but he's the consummate professional who has agreed to not let the request become a distraction. Meanwhile Snow has said they will try and find a solution that keeps him with the Isles before he succumbs to the request.
3) In what world? Until we see expansion, it's impossible to finish lower than 30th. Taylor Hall and no D has us there currently. Meanwhile teams like the Canes and Devils played above expectations and have a considerably better record despite a far less talented roster up front.

 

[Young Lions*]

1) So that would mean we aren't the only team, right?

A'doy. But if it's between, say, four teams, that changes the dynamic there.

2) No, but he's the consummate professional who has agreed to not let the request become a distraction. Meanwhile Snow has said they will try and find a solution that keeps him with the Isles before he succumbs to the request.

Which is what a GM managing a PR problem would say. The fact that Hamonic went public with the trade months after originally voicing it to Snow suggests he wasn't just thinking out loud.

3) In what world? Until we see expansion, it's impossible to finish lower than 30th. Taylor Hall and no D has us there currently. Meanwhile teams like the Canes and Devils played above expectations and have a considerably better record despite a far less talented roster up front.

From an organizational impact standpoint, trading Hall would be like the Pens trading Malkin. Might solve one problem, but it opens up a different one altogether. And for all the talk that Hall is easily replaceable, I've yet to see anyone suggest ways of actually doing so that don't involve a unproven teen or an overpriced and overpaid UFA solution.

 

[Oilrider]

1) So that would mean we aren't the only team, right?
2) No, but he's the consummate professional who has agreed to not let the request become a distraction. Meanwhile Snow has said they will try and find a solution that keeps him with the Isles before he succumbs to the request.
3) In what world? Until we see expansion, it's impossible to finish lower than 30th. Taylor Hall and no D has us there currently. Meanwhile teams like the Canes and Devils played above expectations and have a considerably better record despite a far less talented roster up front.

I don't know if this is exactly your point, but it drives me crazy when people say that we can't be any worse because we are in 30th, and that is the reason to trade x or y player. It's such a bad argument. We can be worse. In fact, this team would have finished a lot higher had it not been for some major injuries. A first place team can get better, and a last place team can get worse, just like any other team. OK, I'm done now...